IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2011-06-20

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th1ahi replaceafill, aelkner, yvl, menesis.16:31
yvlmorning guys16:31
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
th1aI just sent the todo list, which I just want to check into bzr and use as the "list from hell" instead of the "spreadsheet from hell"16:32
th1aOK, replaceafill, did you do anything over the weekend?16:33
replaceafillno, sorry i didnt16:33
th1aNo problemo, just checking.16:34
th1ayvl: What's new.16:34
replaceafillth1a what's the meaning of: TEH16:34
aelknerhere comes tom's middle name16:34
th1aI have no middle name.16:34
th1aJust an initial.16:34
th1aLike Harry S. Truman.16:35
yvlwow :)16:35
th1aIt is much more practical than a full middle name.16:35
th1aTells you something about how my parents think.16:35
yvlok, so I added fieldsets to the person add forms16:36
yvlsimple change, used Alan's previous work16:36
yvllooked into making generic forms16:36
yvllooked into adding JS datewidget16:36
yvlgeneric forms need plumbing16:36
yvlroughly two days worth16:37
yvlJS datewidget needs a little thought16:37
yvlquite simple, actually16:38
th1ayvl are the fieldsets in trunk?16:38
yvlyes, pushed recently16:38
* replaceafill updates the testing instance16:38
th1ayou read my mind.16:38
yvlbasically - run a regex on the big datewidget localization file16:38
yvlcollect languages16:38
yvluse zope.i18n negotiator16:39
replaceafillth1a updated16:39
th1aOK.  Is that the "generic forms plumbing?"16:39
yvlthat's more plumbing16:39
yvlfor generic forms we can either do a viewlet style registration of components/subforms16:40
yvlor do nothing16:40
yvland then there's Alan's preference dialog16:40
yvlnice work, by the way!16:40
aelknerbut the css needs work16:41
yvltwo issues there, plumbing-wise16:41
aelkneroh, and replaceafill is he one that made the forms z3c16:41
yvlno default way to assign unique ids to links16:41
yvlno json view state translation, so we have to use unsafe macro hack16:42
aelknercould we expand the zcml capability of the action link viewlets to include id?16:42
yvlwe don't put it into any manager now16:42
yvlideally I would want something like that16:42
th1aI don't see any way around it.16:42
yvlwell we could use plain content adapters instead of viewlets16:43
yvlbut I'm not sure where you are going with those links16:43
yvlso can't pick which is better16:43
aelknercould we keep everything as viewlets?16:44
th1aWell, "Preferences" should be in the sidebar.16:44
yvland open the modal dialog?16:44
yvland you won't put such links in the page content area?16:44
aelknergood point16:44
menesiswhy make preferences a dialog?16:44
th1aI don't see the relevance of the distinction in terms of dialog vs. new page.16:44
yvlit's a bit hard to figure out the pattern from one link16:44
yvlI understand16:45
yvlbut there is difference in code16:45
yvlbecause we need to bind to something16:46
yvlthat needs id16:46
yvlI wonder how better to implement that id generation16:46
th1aWell, if it is too much work to do dialogs from the sidebar, we just won't.16:46
yvlit's not that16:47
yvlit's that if we want a code shortcut, we need to see a pattern how links are placed16:47
yvlI can hook that up to the sidebar links16:47
yvlare there going to be links in other parts of the page except sidebar?16:48
aelkneryvl, what would it take to add link_id or something like that to the action link registration?16:48
yvlnot much16:48
yvlso... I should add a unique id for links in sidebar?16:49
aelknerif we had that, then we could call up modal dialogs from the sidebar links16:49
aelkneror they could be auto-generated, yes16:49
yvlwe can even hard-code those link ids16:49
aelknerthere could be a convention16:50
aelknerlike lower case of the viewlet name16:50
yvl+ something from __parent__s16:50
yvllowe case of the viewlet name is not unique enough16:50
replaceafillwhy not sending the id explicit though zcml?16:50
replaceafilland making optional?16:50
yvlor html?16:51
yvlor generated?16:51
aelknerlet's keep it simple to use if we can16:51
yvlcan't disagree to that ;)16:52
aelknerwhy don't we make it explicit zcml then16:52
aelknernot every link is gong to need to bring up modal16:53
aelknerso it's simple enough to only have to register the zcml for those that do16:53
aelkneri mean, add the one line, link_id=...16:53
yvlfrankly, I don't like something easily adaptable to define a *unique* element in resulting freely assembled page16:53
yvlit's a call for trouble16:53
yvlbut I can do that if you'd like to?16:54
aelknercold you restate that last sentence?16:54
yvlif you want to do that in zcml16:55
yvlthen you are talking about viewlets in some manager most likely16:55
yvlmanagers are adaptable to context, request, view16:55
yvland that means, they may or may not appear in more than one page16:55
yvlviewlets are adaptable to context, request, view and manager16:56
yvlwhich may or may not broaden the amount of pages that particular viewlet appears in16:56
yvlhtml element ids MUST be unique for the document - i.e. the rendered page16:56
yvlso you'll have to be always carefull to check that there are no such possible scenarios16:57
replaceafillcould we have it generated but still optional?16:57
replaceafillit's just that i don't think ids are necessary for "every" link16:58
yvlyes we can16:58
yvlbut I don't see how this changes the situation16:58
yvlwait, sorry16:58
aelknerwouldn't it be unique enough16:59
yvlwe can make it unique enough16:59
replaceafillso, the generation part is in charge of the uniqueness16:59
aelknerif the id was the manager name plus the viewlet name16:59
aelknersince the context is fixed for a given page16:59
yvlplus some more names, yes16:59
aelknerthen manager+viewlet would be guaranteed to be unique17:00
yvlwe have to chain the full __parent__ path, up to the browser page itself17:00
yvlbut that's not difficult17:01
aelknerwhen would manager+viewlet in itself not be unique?17:01
yvlwhen a manager with a same __name__ is rendered twice on the page17:01
aelknerwhen would that happen?!17:01
yvlsay, as part of two different content viewlets17:01
yvlit's not necessarily the same manager17:02
yvljust the same __name__17:02
yvlsomething common17:02
yvllike "edit"17:02
yvlor such17:02
yvlI can add link id generation, optional as replaceafill said17:04
aelkneri can't picture this page with two instances of the same manager17:04
yvlfor links in siedbar17:04
yvlaelkner, not the same manager17:04
yvlmanager with the same name17:04
yvldifferent class, maybe different context17:04
aelkneroh, well then the names should be more unique17:05
yvlyes :)17:05
yvlok, so link id's, unique for the sidebar, optional17:05
* yvl makes a note17:05
aelknerso if we pick better names for our manager, we could use manager+viewlet for the id?17:05
yvlwe could even without picking a better name17:06
yvlif we fail17:06
yvlthe worst thing that will happen17:06
yvlis that some JS will stop working17:06
yvland since we don't test17:06
yvlno-one will notice17:06
aelknerwell, then let's start by not worrying about it and see when it breaks down17:06
yvlwell, nevermind17:06
yvlso I'll add unique ids to viewlets in sidebar17:08
yvland that link is probably never going to end up in the central page part17:08
yvlso we're good for now17:08
yvlth1a, that's it for my report :)17:09
* replaceafill wonders what's with the footer in person index...17:10
th1aProbably aelkner's link broke it.17:10
aelknerperson index is container view, right?17:11
th1aThat's... just going to have to go away until we can put it in the sidebar.17:11
th1asingular, aelkner.17:11
aelknerreplaceafill, are you talking container view?17:11
replaceafillaelkner no, person17:11
th1aSo yvl, straightening out the link id issue should go first.17:11
th1asingular: person.17:11
th1aWe really can't have things floating around in the wrong place at this point.17:12
th1aOK, so aelkner is free now?17:13
th1aNothing in your queue?17:13
aelkneri'm ready for the next thing, though we should discuss the css for the modal dialog17:13
aelknerreplaceafill, is our css dependent on form being contained in overall page?17:14
th1areplaceafill and I can do it once the links are set up.17:14
replaceafillaelkner no17:14
aelknerwhy does it render so strangely?17:14
yvlaelkner, wrong template, I think17:15
aelknerthat's something i wanted to discuss as well17:16
th1areplaceafill and I will sort it out.17:16
aelknerbefore we go proliferating templates all over the place17:16
aelknerlike we did in the old skin17:16
aelknerwe should all agree here now17:16
aelknerthat we are going to use standard templates for things like forms17:16
th1aaelkner:  That's the entire point of this process.17:17
aelknerjust making sure we keep to that17:17
th1aWell, replaceafill isn't going to do it.17:17
aelkneryvl, so when you say wrong template, what would have been the right one?17:17
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yvlaelkner, I can look at it17:17
th1aaelkner:  Look, really, replaceafill and I will figure it out and tell you.17:17
th1aThere is no answer to that question until that point.17:18
replaceafillaelkner i think it's because your for classes dont have an id set17:18
replaceafillaelkner remember?17:18
replaceafillaelkner so, this line doesnt work:17:18
replaceafill            width: $(person_preferences_form_id).find('form').width() + 3017:18
replaceafillbecause you set person_preferences_form_id in js17:19
aelknerah, that17:19
replaceafillbut not in html17:19
aelknerso it's a form id issue17:19
replaceafillprobably not sure though17:19
replaceafillwill look into it17:19
th1aBasically, I don't want to touch it until we get the link in the sidebar.17:20
th1aSo aelkner, we need a little change to the reports data model.17:20
th1a(I think)17:20
th1aI want the definition of report to be a little more expansive.17:21
th1aBasically, "exports" are a type of "report."17:21
th1aSo CSV export: report.  XLS export: report.17:21
th1aGot it?17:21
th1aXML export: report.17:21
aelknerthe part i get is exports (XML, CSV, or otherwise) are to be registered as reports17:22
th1aIs there a part you don't get?17:23
aelknerthe reset :)17:23
aelknerok, so type could be added to the zcml, i get that17:24
aelkneris that because you want reports in the sidebar to be brokwn up by type17:24
th1aI just want "Reports" in the sidebar.17:24
aelknerso why do we need type?17:24
aelknerto sort the csv together17:25
th1aTo keep the reports table organized.17:25
aelknerand the xls together, like that?17:25
aelknersub-sorted alphabetically?17:25
th1aWith the correct table style, ofc.17:26
aelknerdo we have a reports viewlet manager defined yet?17:26
th1aDo we need that for a table?17:26
aelknerwe're talking about multiple things here17:27
aelknerthere's the table which we call the report index17:27
aelknerwhich the manager calls up for the app context17:27
aelknerthen there's a sidebar for reports for the current context, right?17:28
th1aI'm talking about $PERSON/reports.17:28
aelknerso what table are you referring to?17:28
aelknersomething new?17:28
th1aLike, what is here now: http://localhost:7080/persons/manager/reports17:29
th1aExcept it is not a table yet.17:29
aelknerlet me look17:29
aelknerit's just a list of links, right17:30
aelknera table is usually superfluous if there is only one column17:31
aelknerwhat did you have in mind for the columns17:31
th1aWell, there should be a description there anyhow, aelkner.17:31
aelknertitle, description17:31
th1aEverything like this is a table now.17:31
aelknertype, title, description17:31
th1aWell, type is a subheader.17:32
th1aSo just title/description.17:32
th1aBut basically, there will be no more bare lists like this.17:32
aelknershould both cells in a given row be links to the same thing?17:33
th1aJust the title is fine.17:33
th1aJust the text, not the cell.17:33
aelknerjust the text?17:34
th1aJust the text.17:34
aelknerwhat is just the text?17:34
th1aThe link is just the text.17:34
th1aNot the whole cell.17:34
aelknera cell has a link in it or jsut text17:36
aelknerlinks are text that are clickable17:36
aelknertext that is not clickale would be a span17:36
aelknerthe part about 'not the whole cell' i don't understand17:37
th1aaelkner:  forget it.17:37
th1aI'm trying to explain an error to you that you don't understand, so it is unlikely you would make that error.17:37
th1aOmving on.17:38
th1aMoving on.17:38
aelknerso when you saif subheadings17:38
aelkneryou meant that the table would have dark grey heading17:38
aelknerthen one light grey subheading for each type17:39
aelknerlike in the guidelines17:39
aelkneris that right?17:39
th1aThat is what I mean.17:40
aelknerreplaceafill, how we render tables is important so that your css gets picked up17:40
replaceafillaelkner correct17:41
aelknerdo we have an example of a tble with subheading yet17:41
replaceafillaelkner just do:17:41
replaceafillinside <tbody> just regular <tr><td>...17:41
replaceafillah sorry17:41
replaceafillaelkner i read "no-heading" :(17:42
replaceafillaelkner we still dont have subheading17:42
aelkneri didn't think so, so i thought we should plan that now17:42
aelknerheading is th, right?17:42
aelknercontained in thead, right?17:43
aelknercould we use th not inside thead for subheading?17:43
aelkneris that kosher even?17:43
aelknerthead->th for heading17:43
aelknertbody->th for subheading?17:44
replaceafilli think you could do that17:44
aelknerthe point is, cells are td17:44
aelknerwe should decide together what is right here17:44
aelkneryvl, do you have an opinion?17:45
th1aI think aelkner and replaceafill can sort this out.17:45
th1aWe'll let yvl go.17:45
yvlth1a, I'd also like some tasks for tomorrow17:45
th1aI'm going to be ducking in and out throughout the day to tend to smoking some pork shoulders.17:45
th1ayvl:  Do the link id thing first.17:45
yvlbut that won't take 8 hours17:46
yvldate picker then?17:46
th1aOh, ok.  Yes.17:46
yvlI'll need more17:46
yvlprobably :)17:46
th1aI thought you had two days worth of plumbing?17:46
* yvl is afraid to do any plumbing without confirmation17:47
th1aI'll add more to the TODO.17:47
th1aThere'll be plenty to choose from.17:47
yvlif there's nothing more important to do, I'll do some plumbing then17:47
th1aWell... the rest of the pages in the application.17:47
th1aIt should not be hard to find something to do.17:48
yvlcalendar maybe?17:48
th1aWe should do that last.17:48
yvlprobably not schoolyears17:48
yvlnot terms17:48
th1aLook, I'll update the TODO.17:48
yvland please just assign random stuff17:49
th1aYou guys need to mark what you're working on in the todo and check it in so that you'll be able to just pick things off the list without being explicitly assigned.17:49
th1aOne other thing is that we might want to use a jquery wizard for our year wizard.17:50
th1aSo it will be a real wizard.17:50
th1aSo you might look into that.17:50
yvlwait, what year wizzard?17:50
th1aTimetable wizard.17:50
th1aI was thinking that terms could be a wizard.17:50
yvlah, ok17:51
th1aIf we're going to be using one anyhow.17:51
th1aIt might be worth it for terms + timetables.17:51
th1aYou could look into that tomorrow.17:51
yvl"Magically converts a form's fieldsets into a variety of multi-page form styles!17:51
yvlSometimes, you have a lot of form fields, and you need17:51
yvlto break them up into multiple pages. This plugin does that!"17:51
yvlumm, not for timetables17:51
yvloh, wait17:52
yvlthere are more17:52
yvlok, I'll look into those17:52
th1aI'm sure.  ;-)17:52
th1aOK that should do.17:52
th1aOK, I'm still quite stoked about how this is coming, I think people are going to be very excited when we release this!17:53
th1aSame time tomorrow.17:53
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:53
yvlof course!17:53
yvlsee you all soon :)17:53
th1areplaceafill and aelkner, you can sort out subheaders while I start my fire.17:53
aelkneryvl, have a good one17:54
aelknerso what do you think about my idea from before, th inside of tbody for subheadings?17:54
replaceafilli'm ok with that17:54
aelkneri can't see any other way, unless you can17:55
replaceafilli'm ok with that approach, go with that one17:55
aelknerwhat about the modal dialog css, can i fix the js to use the right form id?17:55
replaceafillaelkner i'm not even sure that's the reason it's breaking17:56
replaceafillit's just a guess17:56
replaceafillbut th1a said we should wait for the links anyway17:56
aelkneri can work on adding type to the reports meta zcml17:56
aelknerand changing the reports view to render as table with subheadings17:57
replaceafillyou'll do:17:57
replaceafill<tbody><tr><th></th></tr></tbody> right17:57
replaceafillfor subheadings17:57
aelknerand thead for headings as always17:58
replaceafillaelkner add this to skin/flourish/resources/table.css for your work:18:01
replaceafilltbody th {18:01
replaceafill    background-color: #dfdcd9;18:01
* replaceafill checks why the footer is breaking18:02
th1aTake that link out for now.18:05
th1aWe can't nitpick the presentation and have random temporary stuff floating around at the same time.18:05
replaceafilli'll also remove the use of jstree in templates (js, css)18:06
replaceafillwe dont use it anymore18:07
replaceafillaelkner you can't have <div id="person_preferences_form" /> in a template18:08
replaceafillunless you use tal:content in it18:08
replaceafillor tal:replace18:08
replaceafillthat's ^ plain html18:08
replaceafilllink gone18:12
replaceafillfooter fixed18:12
replaceafillth1a so, i'll pick the "Generic Relationship Management" part18:13
replaceafill(of the TODO)18:13
replaceafillis that ok?18:13
th1aThat's what I was thinking.18:13
* replaceafill starts18:13
aelknerreplaceafill, please explain what you said, 'you can't have <div...'18:17
replaceafillah ok18:18
aelknerdo you mean the self-terminating part?18:18
replaceafillwe usually do things like:18:18
replaceafill<div tal:content="view/blabla" />18:18
aelknerso <div ...></div> would work18:18
replaceafillyep, that's how i fixed it18:19
aelknerok, i'll stay away from self-terminating divs in the future :)18:19
replaceafillit's ok if you use tal with it18:19
aelknerright, as long as there is ontent, i got it18:20
replaceafilloops, the cambodia error!!!18:39
* replaceafill goes to fix it18:39
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* th1a imagines replaceafill rushing across the room.18:40
replaceafilldamn! i cannot reproduce it :(18:50
replaceafilli'm getting their Data.fs18:54
replaceafillalthough understanding khmer is difficult :P18:54
* replaceafill uses the urls ;)18:54
replaceafillhhmm no, not even with their Data.fs...18:56
replaceafilli wonder if they reported the error before i fixed the average calculation18:57
replaceafillwell, i'll write back asking for more details18:57
th1aHave them double check.18:57
replaceafillah! there it is!18:59
replaceafillit happens in the vps but not on my sandbox...18:59
replaceafillfound it!19:01
replaceafillmy sandbox was not updated :/19:01
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aelknerreplaceafill, could you ping me please?19:07
replaceafillaelkner ping19:07
aelknerthanks, i had network problems that caused me to have to restart19:07
aelknerwhen i restarted XChat, i noticed this message:19:08
aelknerSound-notification plugin unloaded19:08
aelknerwhich may explain why i don't here a bell when i'm pinged19:08
aelknerwhen i go to preferences->plugins i see that that sound notification is checked on19:08
aelknerreplaceafill, do you know of anything else that would not allow me to hear bell on ping?19:09
replaceafillaelkner not really, i dont use that function19:09
aelkneryou don't use xchat?19:11
replaceafillbut not the sound functionality19:12
aelknercould you ping me again please?19:12
replaceafillaelkner ping19:12
aelknerone more time in 5 seconds, please19:13
replaceafillaelkner testing testing testing 1, 2, 319:13
aelknerreplaceafill, thanks, the damn thing won't work19:13
aelkneryou see in preferences?19:13
aelkneri figured out that it helps to click on notifications19:13
aelknerthat made it so that when i clicked on sound notification, it would stay set19:14
aelknercorrection, it went unset again19:14
aelkneroh, well, i'll look into it when i get the chance19:14
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replaceafillgreat!! the score refactoring is in trunk now19:20
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aelknerreplaceafill, which trunk are you referring to?19:30
aelkneroh, that's right, no flourish for that yet19:31
aelknercore has two trunks, so that's why i asked19:32
th1aaelkner:  Mine doesn't work either.19:34
aelknerth1a, sound?19:38
aelkneri found this:
th1aaelkner:  work?19:45
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th1aping me.19:45
th1aCan th1a ping himself?19:45
replaceafillth1a ping19:46
aelknerth1a, ping me, too19:46
th1aThe symbolic link fix seems to work for me.19:46
aelknerping me please19:46
aelknerth1a, what symbolic link fix?19:49
th1aSean Garner wrote on 2009-08-07: #519:49
th1aNot sure if it's an upstream bug as such... it's looking for a wav file that isn't there.19:49
th1asudo ln -s /usr/share/sounds/question.wav /usr/share/sounds/info.wav19:49
th1aThat seems to be a workaround in my case.19:49
aelknerth1a, do you get a sound when you are in xchat?19:51
aelkneror do you have to be away from it?19:51
aelkneryou're in it now19:52
aelknerth1a, do you head this?19:52
th1aActually, only if I wear my headphones, which I'm not doing now.19:52
th1aIf at all.19:53
th1aIs it working for you, aelkner?19:53
aelknerno, and i did the sud ln command19:53
aelkneryou said you did that and it went from not woking to working?19:53
th1aI think so, but I'm not paying very close attention.19:54
th1aI'll send you some more pings in private.19:54
aelknerstill nothing19:54
th1aWell, I'd give up.19:55
aelkneri was just about to :)19:55
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replaceafillth1a zyt?21:12
replaceafillfor the groups table, do you want a separate column for the school year, or should i do something like: "Soccer (2011-2012)"21:13
replaceafillth1a never mind, :)21:14
aelknerreplaceafill, i noticed you started a pattern of adding flourish.zcml inclusion in configure.zcml21:18
aelknerup to then, we had all inclusions in the flourish skin21:18
aelknerkin/flourish/instance/configure.zcml:37:  <include package="" file="flourish.zcml" />21:18
replaceafilli remember i saw <include file="flourish.zcml" /> somewhere21:19
aelkneri think yvl made it that way to keep the flourish skin out of the main skin's way21:19
aelknerso you see my point, you should probably not start the new pattern you started21:20
replaceafillof course21:22
aelknerreplaceafill, should i just fix that now?21:35
replaceafillgo ahead :)21:35
th1aHow's it coming replaceafill?21:40
replaceafillmaking the filter works for groups21:41
replaceafilladded a custom table formatter for groups21:41
replaceafillwith 3 columns: title, school year, ###21:42
replaceafill### means "dont know what title to use"21:42
replaceafillit's a column for the Add Delete buttons21:42
aelknerreplaceafill, pushed the zcml inclusion fix to trunk21:45
replaceafillaelkner great thanks21:45
replaceafillwill update the instance21:46
replaceafilland merge to my branch21:46
replaceafillinstance updated21:47
replaceafillth1a should we allow to search by school year titles too?21:48
replaceafillhhmm maybe a dropdown with school years...21:49
replaceafilli'm creating a widget filter like the one in /persons21:50
replaceafillit has a search box for "Group title"21:50
replaceafilli was thinking of adding school year somehow21:51
replaceafillbut i'll finish the simple version first21:51
th1aYou would only ever edit present or future groups.21:51
th1aWell, maybe not ever.21:51
th1aBut basically not.21:52
replaceafilli'll stick to group titles for now, then we decide21:52
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th1aThe search should ideally include present or futer.21:52
th1aBut right now we don't really have a way to tell the future, right?21:52
replaceafillthe way i coded it, even past...21:52
th1aWe really don't want to edit the past.21:53
th1aThat's arguably a bug.21:53
replaceafilli should remove the pasth then21:53
th1aI'd say so.21:53
replaceafillwe can tell the active school year and next years21:53
th1aOK then.21:53
* th1a thinks this week will have less constant interaction on IRC...22:28
replaceafilllonger tasks22:28
th1aStylesheets mostly in place...22:28
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replaceafillstyle needs fixing23:17
replaceafillthe whole think stinks like a hack :)23:17
* replaceafill goes to grab a bite23:25
th1areplaceafill:  That's pretty close.23:37
th1aThe whole form should be re-done, but this is a lot closer.23:37
replaceafillth1a do you want the actions to be buttons or links are ok?23:38
replaceafillbuttons mean we have to insert the whole thing into the form23:38
replaceafill(like it use to be)23:39
replaceafillactually, that's already done, so switching to buttons is not difficult23:40
th1aI think buttons, since you're really submitting a form.23:47
th1aActually, that works pretty well.  Is there a page reload?23:47
replaceafillfull submit23:47
th1aIt is pretty quick, really.23:47
replaceafilli got stuck because i used the schooltool table formatter23:48
replaceafilli want to code the view without it23:48
replaceafilli think it would be a lot cleaner23:48
th1aCleaner code or cleaner look?23:48
replaceafilli'll also test it with past and future school years23:48
replaceafillcleaner code23:48
replaceafilli think fixing the look will be easy23:49
replaceafilli'll work on that after lunch :)23:49
replaceafilland if i got it right, can i work on advisees and advisors23:50
replaceafill(the other relationship views)23:50
* replaceafill hopes we don't lose our manager to skateboarding :D23:52

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