IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2011-05-09

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th1ahi menesis, yvl, aelkner.16:30
jelknergood morning th1a16:30
th1ahi jelkner.16:30
yvlgood morning :)16:32
th1aaelkner:  I don't understand the dependency situation you mentioned in the email.16:32
yvlouch... I thought I forgot something :/16:33
th1aWhat is dependent on what and how does CanDo fit in?16:33
aelknerok, the gradebook is no longer dependent on the journal, except in tests16:33
aelknercando is dependent on the gradebook16:34
th1aIs the journal dependent on gradebook?16:34
aelknerno, it isn't16:35
th1aWhy is CanDo dependent but not the journal?16:35
yvlCanDo is basically dependent on requirement, IIRC16:36
yvljournal does not requirement for storing grades...16:36
aelkneralso, the gradebook because it does a 'from schooltool.gradebook.interfaces i prt IExternalActivity'16:36
th1aBut the journal doesn't do that?16:37
aelknerwell, that's what i decided, not to do that in the journal16:37
th1aIt just isn't necessary.16:37
th1aI'd say technically IExternalActivity belongs in requirement.16:38
aelknerIActivity has been defined in the gradebook since its creation16:38
aelknerso moving it to requirement would be a big deal, and for what?16:39
th1aI'd say technically IActivity belongs in requirement.16:39
th1aI'm not saying do it now.16:39
aelknerwell, moving IActivity to requirment doesn't stop cando depending pn the gradebok package16:40
th1aOK, moving on...16:40
th1aAs long as we aren't creating new cross dependencies, I don't care.16:40
aelkneri thought i was clear in my note that I wasn't creating new dependencies16:41
th1aaelkner:  Do you understand why external activities are explicitly imported?16:41
aelknerin order to define an external activity and its source, one needs to import the interfaces16:42
th1aaelkner:  The CanDo point confuses the issue.16:42
th1aI got it now.16:42
aelkneri brought it up in anticipation of an objection from yvl16:42
aelknerabout inconsistency16:42
th1aIt's fine.  We're all happy.  :-)16:42
th1aPhillies are winning, everything is fine.16:43
* yvl begins to remember16:43
aelknerand the comment in configure.zcml says that external activities are defined in the other package16:43
yvlthere's a "soft" dependency of gradebook on journal16:43
yvlbecause you need to have integration code somewhere16:43
yvleither a separate new plugin, or in one of the plugins, gradebook in our case16:44
yvlI can't remember why the soft dependecy is implemented in gradebook and not in journal16:44
aelknerjournal could, in thoery, be soft-dependent on gradbeook16:45
yvlwell, it's a matter of choice16:45
yvlit baffles me a bit that "external" dependencies are implemented inside the gradebook16:46
yvlbut then again, it does not matter that much for now, I guess16:46
yvlthinking back, it was probably bad judgment on my part16:47
th1aThere's more of a model/view intermingling in the gradebook than there ought to be.16:48
yvltrue, th1a16:48
th1aOK, moving on...16:48
th1aaelkner:  Do you understand why external activities are explicitly imported?16:49
th1aBy the user.16:49
aelknerthe user doesn't import external activities, they create linked activities, using the 'New External Activity' button16:50
aelknerthe code is what does the importing of the interfaces16:50
th1aI mean, you have to hit a button to update the scores.16:50
th1aYou "import" not "sync."16:51
aelknerthree buttons, yes16:51
aelknerthat was my complaint in the note16:51
th1aThank you for raising it.16:51
th1aWe can make it one button.16:51
aelknerfirst, from the gradebook, the user has to know to hit 'Manage Worksheet'16:51
aelknerthen click on the link for the linked activity16:51
aelknerthen hit the 'Update Grades' button16:51
th1aI think we need to implement a javascript popup menu for gradebook columns.16:52
th1aLike a spreadsheet would have.16:52
aelknera right-click menu, right?16:52
th1aWell, probably a little (>) icon you'd click.16:53
th1aSince we don't right-click anywhere else in the interface.16:53
th1aRight under the label perhaps.16:53
aelknerright now each colmn headng has two links16:53
aelknerone takes the user to a special activity gradebook16:53
aelknerthe other is for sorting by the column16:54
aelknerbut yes, we could add a '>' next to 'sort' perhaps16:54
th1aWell, we could replace the sort and put sort in the menu.16:54
aelknerooh, good idea16:55
th1aThis would change a lot.16:55
th1a"Add a column" etc. would go in there.16:55
aelknerwe don't have popups anywhere else in the interface, do we?16:55
th1aNo, but that's fine.  We just need to make sure there's a visual cue.16:56
aelkneryvl, your thoughts16:56
th1aIt is a UI change we can make without having complicated coordination with the overall UI change.16:58
yvlI'm just having trouble understanding what you want to do16:59
th1aaelkner raised an issue that prompts the solution to a larger problem.16:59
th1aIn the gradebook at this point you can't do enough actions directly from the spreadsheet view.17:00
th1aYou need a contextual menu for a column.17:00
th1aIt'll clean up quite a bit of other cruft.17:01
yvlI see17:01
th1aA LOT.17:01
yvlcan you give a few examples of what the menu should have?17:01
th1aUpdate scores (external activity)17:01
th1aAdd a column after17:02
aelkneredit, for title, category, points, etc.17:02
aelknerinstead of having to know to click 'Manage Workseet'17:02
th1aMove right or left17:02
aelknerah, good one17:02
aelkneranyway, that's not currently on my task list, but i'd be happy to take that on after the sprint17:04
th1aWhich sprint?17:04
aelkneri'd just need help creating the popup menu, because there's no example to draw on in schooltool yet17:04
aelknerACC, May 20-22!17:04
aelknerboy, how easily we forget17:04
th1aIt isn't my sprint.  ;-)17:05
yvlas far as the implementation goes, there are few options17:05
yvlfor one, aelkner could learn jquery :)17:05
th1aYes, a jquery popup.17:05
aelkneryeah, that would be a good opportunity to do that17:05
th1aMaybe fsufitch can teach you how to do that.17:06
yvlalternatively, there could be a simple dropdown menu17:06
aelknerth1a, yeah, iwas thinking that maybe fsufitch may be able to help with that17:06
aelkneryvl, menu, where?17:07
yvlumm, as in - HTML element, [ select action V]17:07
th1aThere would be a width problem with a normal HTML menu.17:07
yvlyou're right th1a17:08
th1aOK, so... I do think we should address this after the sprint.17:08
th1aIt will really clean up a lot of cruft in the gradebook.17:08
yvlby the way, I was just trying to think up options here - I like when there's something to choose from :)17:09
th1aOK, anything else aelkner?17:10
aelknernope, if there's no objection, i'll move onto the second journal data task17:10
th1aOK by me.17:11
th1aLet's move on to yvl.17:11
aelkneradding absence and tardy columns (hidable) to the gradebook17:11
aelkneranyway, that's it for me17:11
yvlok, so things are going pretty well17:12
yvlfor the most part of the last week I spent toying with Gimp and my whiteboard17:13
yvlso I've made up my mind on what I want to have, where and why17:13
yvlGimp was for checking if stuff fits17:13
yvlthere's nothing more annoying than drawing a concept and in the middle of implementation finding out that it simply "does not fit"17:14
yvlnow I'm implementing...17:14
yvlviewlet managers and their sorting17:14
th1aI always get stuck trying to pick my wireframing tool...17:15
yvlI really want to spend enough time on that17:15
th1aYes, the sorting is important!17:15
yvlwell, Gimp does a good enough job :)17:15
yvlI want to use the same sorting for CSS and JS17:15
yvland make Douglas a tiny bit happier :)17:16
yvlbasically it's a play on our plugin sorting17:16
yvlyou have adapter names17:16
yvlthen you have before="" and after="" lists17:16
yvlsounds easier than it is ;)17:16
yvland I think if implemented correctly, this will be more than enough17:17
yvlso this week I'll be playing with viewlets some more17:18
yvlthen I'll move on to simple page implementation and basic CSS17:18
yvlusing stuff from Ubuntu web dev guide is quite fun17:19
yvlmakes everything pretty - instantly :)17:19
th1aIt is a big help.17:19
yvlI think this week I should continue freestyle work17:20
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yvlbut I'd like to do some basic estimates... if not this week, than next latest17:21
yvlth1a, is there any timeframe in your mind?17:21
th1aIncluded in the next release.17:21
yvlwell, ok.17:22
th1aWhich reminds me, we should all put the Oneiric release milestones on our calendars...17:23
th1aFeatureFreeze is... July 21?17:24
th1aAugust 11?17:24
yvlI think they haven't made up their minds yet17:25
th1aI'll check back.17:25
th1aRegardless, it is always a heck of a lot less time than you think.17:25
yvlso true17:26
menesisfeaturefreeze does not matter to us17:26
th1ayvl:  I want you to think in terms of guidelines that aelkner and I can use to re-do problematic pages like the term index.17:26
menesisonly to get new dependencies in17:26
yvlright, th1a17:26
th1amenesis:  Well, technically, but we need to not be jamming things in either for our own sake.17:27
th1aI mean, the main view of a term.17:27
th1aI was shaking my head at that last week.17:27
th1aBut we'll need to be able to get everyone grinding through views without too much fuss.17:27
yvlthat's what I'm aiming at17:28
th1aMaybe we should plan, say, three weeks where everyone will just be working on re-doing views and posting screenshots daily.17:29
aelknersounds like a good plan17:29
th1aTwo weeks maybe.17:29
yvlbeginning of June maybe?17:29
aelkneri was going to say that we would need tight integration of our work17:29
th1aJune 6 - 17?17:30
th1aVirtual sprint?17:30
th1aMay 30?17:30
yvl+1 for virtual sprint17:30
th1aLet's say May 30 - June 10.17:31
yvlit's not carved in stone, yes? :)17:31
th1aThat gives you three weeks.17:31
* yvl has some paranoia developed when working on timetables...17:31
th1aDouglas will be focusing on this too.17:32
th1aI think we can do it.17:32
* yvl agrees17:32
yvlthat was plain paranoia17:32
th1aWe'll just start from where ever you are.17:32
th1aBut you'd better be ready.  ;-)17:33
th1aOK.  Good.  Thanks yvl.17:34
menesisI had three days off last week17:35
menesiswas in London17:35
menesisso not much done17:35
menesiscreated branches for 1.6 to make trunk ready for development17:36
menesisupdated package management scripts17:36
menesisto see the status of lucid, maverick, and natty17:37
menesisadded builders for that17:37
menesisalso updating scripts for oneiric/unstable17:37
menesisnow will start syncing packages between unstable and oneiric17:38
menesisI have to commit my ubuntu changes back to debian17:38
menesisand merge debian changes to ubuntu if that does not happen automatically17:39
menesisthis is my main focus for this week17:39
menesisthe other one is merging branches17:39
menesisthere are still 2 or 3 aelkner's branches I haven't merged17:39
menesiswill do now17:39
th1aYes, we need to make sure we don't lose things in transition.17:40
menesissince a lot of development will be going on now17:40
menesisI personally would prefer not be responsible for merging branches into trunk17:41
menesisthat all core developers commit/merge to trunk themselves17:41
th1aWell... we should have an approval step.17:42
th1aBy menesis or yvl.17:42
menesisI will still be reviewing everything, but others would not be stuck waiting on me17:42
yvlI probably should start merging to trunk again17:43
menesislike it has happened this march and april when some finished branches are forgotten for weeks17:43
menesisok it was a frozen trunk17:44
th1amenesis:  You should have fewer other things to do now that we're in Ubuntu.17:44
menesisbut now we are in full speed development17:44
th1aLet's maintain the status quo for now.17:44
th1aIt is another reason we still need to feature freeze around the same time as Ubuntu.17:45
th1aLeaves us time to get everything reviewed and merged.17:45
menesisI just have to do this job better17:45
th1aIf we do merge requests through LP, we won't lose them, right?17:45
th1aPresumably they stay open?17:46
menesisyes, merge requests is very good for tracking unmerged branches17:46
th1aSo as long as we do that, we should be fine.17:46
th1aThe problem is just silently dropped email or verbal requests.17:47
th1aOK... anything else?17:48
th1aaelkner, send me an April invoice.17:48
menesisnothing else, don't think17:48
th1aOK.  Thanks.17:49
menesisthere are problems building PIL on Natty, also with and zc.buildout17:49
menesisbut I have no solutions yet17:49
menesisif `make` does not work, try `make BOOTSTRAP_PYTHON=python2.6`17:49
menesisand since we are not embedding images in PDFs, the PIL problems should not affect schooltool tests or running17:51
th1aI'm looking forward to replaceafill's report from EduJam.17:51
th1aOK, have a great week gentlemen!17:52
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:52
aelknergreat week everyone17:52
yvlgreat week to you guys :)17:52
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Douglasth1a: just arrived to Panama :)19:26
* Douglas reads the log of the meeting19:29
th1ahey Douglas!19:35
Douglashey th1a19:36
Douglasscary landing :/19:36
Douglaswind and rain19:36
th1aYes... you'll be taking a break from Cambodia for the UI sprint at the end of the month.19:36
th1aLittle plane?19:36
Douglaswell medium19:36
Douglasth1a: i wrote some rough comments trying to put together a report19:37
Douglasi'm going to send it to you so you can ask me to add more detail if it's needed, ok?19:37
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Douglasth1a: sent20:01
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* Douglas would like to work on jquery stuff :P20:12
Douglasvirtual sprint! :|20:12
th1aDouglas:  By "teachers with lots of work already assigned" you just mean "busy teachers?"20:16
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Douglasaelkner: zyt?23:03
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