IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2010-12-09

*** replaceafill has quit IRC01:12
*** ignas has quit IRC01:18
*** th1a has quit IRC02:29
*** menesis has quit IRC04:33
*** aks has joined #schooltool05:24
*** aks has joined #schooltool05:24
*** aks has quit IRC07:35
*** aks has joined #schooltool07:39
*** ignas has joined #schooltool08:15
*** ignas has quit IRC08:53
*** ignas has joined #schooltool09:39
*** menesis has joined #schooltool11:30
aksyvl: -- my blogpost on packaging schooltool for Fedora12:24
yvlcool post, aks :)12:28
aksyvl: :)12:28
*** yvl has quit IRC13:10
*** aks has quit IRC13:28
*** menesis has quit IRC14:31
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool14:51
*** menesis has joined #schooltool15:15
*** th1a has joined #schooltool15:28
*** yvl has joined #schooltool15:35
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool15:53
th1ayvl:  Do you have Go To Meeting set up?16:22
yvlmorning th1a16:23
yvlup and running16:23
th1aThis is like working for a real business!16:23
th1aAll grown up!16:23
th1aWearing my big boy pants!16:23
yvland a tie!16:24
yvlit's not a business if there's no tie.16:24
th1aIt is still IT.16:24
yvlby the way, menesis is not using Windows or Mac OS16:24
th1aI'm just wearing jeans instead of pyjamas.16:24
yvlso he won't participate in GoToMeeting part16:25
th1aDoes he have Skype working?16:25
menesisI can try to reboot into windows16:25
th1aI don't even know what Go To Meeting does.16:25
menesisbut I won't have any info, notes or tools16:26
menesisnot sure if I need anything16:26
menesismy skype is menes.is16:28
yvlmine is justas.pov16:29
replaceafillgood luck guys :)16:30
yvlthanks :)16:31
*** Aiste has quit IRC16:32
th1areplaceafill:  You've just been left out for the sake of simplicity.16:32
replaceafillsure, np16:33
th1aThat went much more smoothly without the marketing department involved.  :-D17:42
yvlright :)17:43
replaceafilljust geeks?17:43
yvlthe first thought was "well, that went well" :)17:43
yvlwell, geeks and their managers :)17:44
th1aManagers who are geeks.17:44
th1areplaceafill:  Looks like 2,000 sites coming in Argentina.17:45
th1aLatin America FTQ!17:45
th1aI mean.17:45
yvlah, th1a, no offense on the manager part17:47
yvlI keep forgetting that there are managers in the world, that are _not_ geeks17:47
yvl... got used to the good life :)17:47
yvlhmm, I forgot to ask them how's the usability company called :/17:48
th1aWell, I forget that there are marketing departments in real life.17:48
yvlit's gonna be an interesting meeting in Feb...17:50
yvlI got an impression that our goals are quite aligned17:50
yvlI mean - what we want to do with ST and what they want ST to do17:51
yvland what we/they don't want ST to do17:51
th1aYes, pretty much.17:51
th1aIt is also the stage of development SchoolTool has arrived at.17:51
th1aIt isn't like it is just half done and you have to decide which parts of the other half are most important.17:52
th1aIt's like a car with a few parts that need fixed.17:52
yvlyes, it's more than a calendar nowadays ;)17:53
th1aIt is pretty obvious if your brakes need work and there's a hole in the muffler.17:53
yvlright :)17:54
menesistalking about Moodle, it contains a Gradebook since 1.918:00
menesisand alternative plugins like gradebook plus. moodle has lots of plugins in fact.18:02
menesisunlike us18:03
th1aMoodle is immeasurably huge.18:03
th1aIt has also been around longer.18:03
yvland as Alex correcly pointed out, has different parts that it focuses on18:04
th1aAnd yes, looking at it your first reaction will be "Why does anyone even need SchoolTool?"18:04
th1aAnd the main answer is that Moodle has no concept of time or history.18:04
th1aYou use Moodle for gradebook but not report cards or transcripts.18:05
menesisso we have something that Moodle doesn't offer18:06
th1aAnd never will.18:06
th1aIt is just outside their model entirely.18:06
*** ignas has quit IRC18:06
menesisbut we really need to integrate with it18:06
th1aYes, it would be a major feature.18:07
th1aWe just can't drive that process.18:07
th1aBasically, in Moodle 2.0 they were planning on (and I hope they achieved) a much better separation between model and view.18:08
th1aSo then they could do web services correctly.18:08
th1aWhen everything is just PHP web templates, that's a hard transistion to make.18:08
th1aAlso, it is not something I'd "bet the company" on, because as a Python app we're less well positioned than PHP apps.18:09
th1aSeveral PHP "SIS for Moodle" projects have been announced but I've not really heard if anything came of them.18:09
th1aBut it would be hard to compete for that niche with a PHP app designed specifically at that purpose.18:10
yvlit's just that it's really difficult to write an universal SIS18:11
yvlas opposed to country-specific SIS18:11
th1aThat too.18:12
th1aBut you could do a fairly simple and generic SIS that just piggybacked on Moodle, maybe peeked into its database.18:13
th1aArchived grades, etc.18:13
th1aThanks guys.  That went really well.18:14
* th1a goes to run some errands.18:14
yvlThanks th1a18:14
yvlexciting times... :)18:14
*** yvl has quit IRC18:19
*** replaceafill has quit IRC20:23
*** menesis has quit IRC20:27
*** ignas has joined #schooltool20:39
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool21:00
*** fsufitch has joined #schooltool22:05
fsufitchreplaceafill: ping22:06
replaceafillhey fsufitch!22:06
fsufitchdwelsh said i should talk to you about how badly i broke the gradebook22:06
replaceafillwas it you?!?!? (kidding)22:07
fsufitchwell it was me who wrote it, so supposedly? but i don't know what i coded in there that would break upon connection loss22:07
fsufitchno AJAX was involved...22:07
replaceafillthe thing was that the gradebook view required 2 views to run at the same time22:07
replaceafillone for spitting the html22:07
replaceafilland the other for the javascript22:08
replaceafillso, it seems like the javascript one can run slower than the html one22:08
replaceafilland that breaks the javascript logic22:08
fsufitchthat makes sense22:08
*** fsufitch has quit IRC22:08
*** fsufitch has joined #schooltool22:09
fsufitchwah! i got disconnected for some reason22:09
fsufitchbut yeah that makes sense why it would fail at first, i dont know how it broke later stuff once the javascript loaded22:09
fsufitchbut i guess you figured it out22:10
replaceafillso, i fix it by moving the dynamic parts of the javascript view to the html template22:10
fsufitchi see22:10
replaceafilland made the static parts a file resource22:10
replaceafillso, you don't have that 'race' condition anymore22:10
replaceafill(if  that's the right term to use :D)22:10
replaceafillbut i'm glad you're back :)22:10
fsufitchi think actually when i first coded it i thought racing might be a problem, but none of the testing indicated it, so i left it as is22:10
fsufitchi am too :)22:10
replaceafillyes, it was a bug hard to find22:11
replaceafilli only could see it in my laptop after changing the competency group dropdown really fast22:11
replaceafillseveral times22:11
*** menesis has joined #schooltool22:11
fsufitchdid you fix it via a test?22:11
fsufitchor was that even testable, really?22:11
replaceafillnot really22:12
replaceafilli just recorded a selenium script22:12
replaceafilland move code around22:12
replaceafilland rerun the script22:12
fsufitchah ok22:12
replaceafillbut some teachers have said it works for them now :)22:13
replaceafillnow, i'm cleaning a lot of onclick='...' attributes in the template22:13
fsufitchhmm did i make a mess of those?22:13
replaceafillit's not a mess, it's just that if you have like 10 students and 10 competencies, you get a lot of strings22:14
replaceafillbloated html22:14
replaceafillmoving all of those to a single jquery call22:15
fsufitchi see22:15
fsufitchyeah that's neater22:15
fsufitchi dont think i was too familiar with jQuery at the time i wrote that22:15
replaceafillyou did a good job :)22:15
replaceafillit works great22:15
fsufitchwell other than breaking when you click stuff really fast22:16
fsufitchso, im apparently going to be back on the team for the Course object upgrades22:18
fsufitchthat, plus until the funding clears, on jelkner's pybookbuilder idea22:19
replaceafillah yes, i'm looking forward to see both of those :)22:19
fsufitcha very rudimentary version of pybookbuilder is running here
*** ignas has quit IRC22:21
replaceafillwhat does Compile book do?22:22
fsufitchit took a bit getting used to web2py's "loose" way of doing stuff (such as globals that you don't import, etc) but it seems fun22:22
fsufitchcompile book takes all the restructuredtext for all the chapters of the book, and updates the HTML of the chapters22:22
fsufitchit's going to go away hopefully once i make it change-aware, so it knows changes were made and the html needs to be recompiled before seeing it22:22
fsufitchso it does the compilation once you click to view the html22:23
fsufitch(also avoids recompilation when there were no changes)22:23
replaceafilli remember i had that conversation with jelkner :D22:23
replaceafillhe wanted something like 'unpubished' changes or something22:23
fsufitchthat plus things such as auto-saving edits, a more comprehensive editor, actual CSS for both the page and for the generated HTML books, etc22:24
fsufitchwhat's running now is VERY rudimentary22:24
fsufitchbut it's a start22:24
replaceafillgood start22:24
fsufitchweb2py is in fact so cool that i'm tempted to rewrite my blog using it22:25
fsufitchjust so it's much easier to code extensions22:25
fsufitchbut then it's also so inconvenient since i'm using ZODB for my blog's storage right now and i REALLY don't want to handle that migration to SQLite or something22:26
replaceafillthat would take some work for sure22:27
fsufitchif you're curious about pybookbuilder's code, it's lp:pybookbuilder22:29
fsufitchput the resulting directory into the applications/ dir of web2py22:29
fsufitcheasy_install Sphinx22:29
replaceafillbuildout! :D22:30
fsufitchand then when you run web2py, pybookbuilder will be at the /pybookbuilder url of the server22:30
fsufitchehh i didnt set up buildout yet :-P22:30
fsufitchthat and im not 100% sure how buildout even works22:30
fsufitchthat is something that i should learn though22:30
replaceafillmr.developer makes easy to work with branches22:30
replaceafillyou can tell buildout to get your branch and use it like an egg, etc22:31
fsufitchyeah i guess22:31
fsufitchsomething i can use it for too is to install the latest sphinx as a dir inside web2py22:31
aelknerhey fsufitch22:33
fsufitchbut right now im just waiting for jelkner to play with it a bit and give me some idea of some new user stories22:33
fsufitchello aelkner22:33
aelknernice to have you back :)22:33
fsufitchnice to be back :)22:33
aelkneri'm also glad to see my efforts of half a year ago won't go to waste22:34
fsufitchfor the new Course object?22:34
aelkneryeah, i assume you've looked at welsh's doc22:34
fsufitchyeah ive got it here22:35
fsufitchim actually at the ACC right now22:35
fsufitchmet with jelkner and dwelsh22:35
aelknerhe did a nice job interviewing me at the end of the weekend i spent with his brother22:35
aelknerand putting it into a project management doc22:35
aelknerso you have a good place to start there22:35
fsufitchi have his brother's FileMaker thing too22:36
aelkneryeah, you'll need that22:36
aelkneryou'll be creating a schooltool package that will complement the FileMaker program22:36
fsufitchyou mean, essentially implement what's illustrated in filemaker22:36
aelkneroh, maybe i'm confusing the two things22:37
aelkneri know david's brother made an app22:37
aelkneri thought that was in FileMaker22:37
aelknermaybe it's not22:37
fsufitchyeah that's what i mean22:37
fsufitchbut that operates on a filemaker database22:37
fsufitchnot on zope22:37
fsufitchthe filemaker app is more than anything just a sort of example framework of how the changes should work in zope22:38
fsufitchor so i understand22:38
aelknerfrom what i remember off hand, the schooltool package needs to export22:38
aelknerand there's another app that we need not write22:38
aelknerthat jerry wrote and is very powerful22:39
aelknerand that app can import from the export from schooltool22:39
aelknerdoes that make sense, or has it changed?22:39
fsufitchi really don't know22:39
fsufitchim just getting back on track today :)22:39
aelkneroh, sorry, rushing ahear too fast :)22:40
aelkneranyway, welsh says he'll be at the Monday meeting, can you?22:40
fsufitchi shall be there22:40
aelknerwell, that's the time to discuss it then22:41
aelknerit's going to be a really cool package in the end22:41
fsufitchplus im happy to have something productive to work on if school becomes mindnumbingly boring or something :)22:42
aelknerthe real world does lend many interesting things to do22:43
fsufitchi also talked to glenda and to lee capps22:46
fsufitchi will also be working with lee in the future for the new way to update competencies in cando, as hes coding a new API for it22:46
fsufitchJSON api, too, it makes me happy22:46
replaceafillgood bye importers!!22:49
*** menesis has quit IRC22:56
*** replaceafill has quit IRC23:33
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool23:58
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool23:58
fsufitchreplaceafill: ping23:58
replaceafillfsufitch, pong23:59
fsufitchso, jelkner pointed me your way to ask about what format to use for my invoices23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!