IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2010-10-04

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aitch100s76anyone else awake?07:42
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th1aGood morning yvl, menesis, aelkner, replaceafill.16:30
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:30
yvlmorning! :)16:31
th1aFirst off, this is going to be a short week for me.  My uncle is being inaugurated as president of Bridgewater College down in VA:
th1aSo Vivian and I are flying down Wednesday - Friday.16:32
yvlcongratulations :)16:33
th1aYesterday I did my little SheevaPlug 'n' cell phone demo at the Better World by Design expo here in Providence.16:34
th1aWent pretty well and I met this couple who was like "Yeah, we know this woman at Columbia (University) whose father is, like, head of IT for Cambodia."16:34
th1aSo I might have made an actually useful contact.  ;-)16:35
th1aOn the other hand, after thinking about it, I'm not sure how useful it *really* would be, but I'll follow up.16:36
th1aHi menesis.16:36
aelkneryeah, could be16:36
th1aYou never know.16:36
th1aAlso, I have to try to figure out what's going on with the people who want to include SchoolTool on their server appliance.16:36
th1aI think I need to get the marketing person who sent me the email to hook me up to their geeks.16:37
aelknerthe people in New Jersey?16:37
th1aThe ed project is split off from another IT company.16:37
th1aI don't know if you might have heard of it... if you want to poke around the website.16:38
th1a(I'm referring to aelkner, since he lives in New Jersey)16:38
th1aThat also would be a good sign because in general the Intel education projects have used the OpenSIS side of things to the extent they do anything with SIS's.16:39
th1aSo they may be losing steam.16:39
th1aAs you would expect with a not that fantastic PHP app.16:40
th1aSo I finally got a reply from Mrs. Taiwo, the principal at Shadoschools.16:41
th1aWe hadn't heard from them for a while and finally she said (basically), "Oh yeah, we got SchoolTool running ourselves."16:41
th1aHopefully we'll pry some feedback out of them eventually.16:42
th1aaelkner and I have also been having more conversations with David Ally and trying to get him going.16:42
th1aThat's been... exasperating.16:43
th1aJust very difficult to get the conversation in sync.16:43
aelkneryeah, that's been the hardest part16:43
aelknerreliable chat meetings would help16:43
aelknerthese pop-ups are highly unproductive16:44
th1aWell, it is kind of beyond that anyhow.16:44
replaceafillth1a, do i need to set up something for David in the vps?16:44
replaceafilli saw you said something like that in your email last night16:45
th1aJust getting him to lay out clearly what he's got going there, exactly what has be done and when is difficult regardless of the medium.16:45
th1aWell, his emails over the weekend read like he had some kind of vital demo that he hadn't told us about coming up, like, today.16:45
th1aWhich is why I suggested some quick fixes to get something useful immediately.16:46
th1aBut now I don't think there is even a definite meeting scheduled for the demo.16:46
th1aOr maybe there is.16:46
th1aI can't tell.16:46
th1aThat's kind of where we are with David.16:46
th1aSo don't do anything yet.16:47
replaceafillok, got it16:47
th1aBut we do have some CanDo issues to discuss in a bit.16:47
th1aWhich could be pretty open ended so lets get started with replaceafill and then yvl/menesis.16:47
replaceafillthis past week i fixed the rounding bug in the gradebook related to using integers for the average16:48
replaceafillnow the average is a decimal number16:48
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replaceafillwhich opened a new bug :( where average and linked columns were displaying the whole value like 4.3423423523216:49
replaceafillso i fixed that too16:49
replaceafillaelkner, ?16:49
replaceafillyou mean if i fixed the tests?16:49
aelkneri was just asking if you added tests for the bug fixes you added16:49
aelknercool, thanks16:50
replaceafillcambodia responded too16:50
replaceafillpiseth kheng said that the calculations are correct16:50
replaceafilland one thing i want to mention is that i tested yvl's approach to add new columns with calculations to the gradebook16:51
replaceafilli think it's way easier16:51
replaceafillbut i had a problem with some checks the gradebook does with linked columns16:52
replaceafillth1a, i was thinking that instead of bypassing those checks maybe yvl could do an extra refactoring on that part16:52
replaceafill(if he has the time of course)16:52
replaceafillbut cambodia does work with that score refactoring16:53
yvlyou meant without :)16:53
replaceafillboth :)16:53
replaceafillwith and without16:53
replaceafillbut with is cleaner of course16:54
th1aMaybe you could do it replaceafill?16:54
replaceafillsure, i can give it a try16:54
replaceafillbut since yvl already thought about it ;)16:54
replaceafilleither way i think those checks should change16:54
yvlthings are a bit convoluted there16:54
yvl(no offense aelkner, really!)16:55
yvlI'd rather replaceafill not break legs around that part :)16:55
aelknernone taken16:55
yvlstill, it's up to replaceafill16:56
aelknerreplaceafill and i are a bit used to that code16:56
replaceafillyvl, i'd rather you do it to be honest16:56
replaceafillyour code is cleaner of course16:57
replaceafillbut if time is an issue, i can work on that16:57
yvlplease, don't give me too much credit16:57
yvlis time an issue?16:57
replaceafillno, i mean for you16:57
replaceafillin case you're busy with other stuff (more important ones)16:58
yvlI looked at it briefly last Friday16:58
yvlfigured I won't finish it in less than a day16:58
yvlso yes, I'd prefer to hammer timetables for now16:58
yvland after that refactor gradebook a bit16:59
th1aThat sounds ok.16:59
replaceafillcambodia works anyway16:59
replaceafilli also check some i18n issues in trunk16:59
aelkneri've been dying to refactor the gradebook since i took over that convoluted code16:59
replaceafillyvl, here i have a question16:59
replaceafillis it ok to use getRequestFromInteraction() in non-view code?17:00
yvlwhen facing certain death - it's ok17:00
yvlbut you may open the doors of hell if you do17:01
replaceafillsomething got my attention, 'Your School' is actually translated in the app preferences17:01
replaceafillso i went to see app/ and that's how it's done17:01
replaceafilli thought some i18n issues could be fixed the same way17:02
yvlah, I see - Ignas already opened them17:02
replaceafilllike the 'Sheet1', 'Summary', etc we discussed last week17:03
replaceafillbut it's not a big deal either17:03
replaceafillto finish...17:03
replaceafilli've been testing the fedora 13 rpms17:03
replaceafilli want to tell the Salvadorean fedora guy to test it17:04
replaceafillwhen they are fixed of course (the roman module is causing trouble)17:04
replaceafillth1a, for this week i'm in the middle of adding multiple persons17:04
replaceafilllike yvl did in trunk17:04
replaceafillalso, i'm going to ask cambodia about reporting needs they may have17:05
th1aThat's what I was going to say.17:05
replaceafilllet's hope that conversation happens faster17:05
replaceafillth1a, yes, i guess we're almost done with data entry17:05
th1aWell, the good thing is just looking at the examples tells you a lot.17:05
replaceafillreports are next, right?17:05
th1aDo we have any from Cambodia?17:05
replaceafillany reports?17:06
replaceafilli haven't seen one yet17:06
replaceafilljavier just asked for the list of students and teachers in the system so far17:06
th1aSo yes, getting some of those, in any format, is the next step.17:07
th1aScans are fine.17:07
replaceafillah i will mention that17:07
th1aFor starters at least.17:07
replaceafillok, that's it from me17:07
th1aOK.  Thanks replaceafill.17:07
th1ayvl, menesis?17:07
yvlI'll go first :)17:08
yvlvarious random stuff popped out last week17:08
yvlone of the things I remember is helping with rpms on IRC17:09
yvleverything else is one big blurry lump of work17:09
yvlapologies for that17:09
yvlI should have tracked what I was wokring on better :|17:10
aelknerlook at making the footer optional in pdfs?17:10
th1aI noticed more timetable changes are actually in the release than I anticipated.17:11
th1aaelkner:  I haven't broached that yet.17:11
aelkneri meat to say, did you17:11
aelknerdarn, sorry for the mistyping17:11
th1aSo what timetable features are you working on now, yvl?17:11
yvlaelkner, no I did not17:12
yvlas I mentioned last Mon, I don't think we should add a flag of "disable footer"17:12
yvlwell, ok, I did look at it and posponed implementation :)17:12
th1aWell, aelkner is derailing the conversation right now.17:13
yvl(I'll finish that in a sec,)17:13
aelknersorry, forgive my interruption17:13
yvlI'll bundle selection of different report templates along with other report work17:14
yvlthat will cover the issue17:14
yvl(I have school logo bug, there is more work planned)17:14
yvlso I'd like to do that in one bunch, as usual...17:14
yvlas for timetables17:14
yvlat the moment I'm overexcited because I nailed the data model right17:15
yvlit's a rewrite, so it's hard to name a "feature"17:16
th1aOK, so... just clarify for me the distinction between the changes in the release and the changes you're working on.17:16
th1aJust so I have some clue.17:16
yvlok, I'll try17:16
yvlyou meant UI changes, right17:16
yvlgood question17:17
yvltimetable wizard will change a bit17:17
yvlfrom the user's perspective, he will be given "preview" of the schedule17:18
yvlat all steps17:18
yvlalso, some of the steps will be, umm, obsoleted17:18
yvldamn, this is hard17:19
yvlfrankly, I've got a clear vision of how it should work17:20
yvlit's a bit hard to communicate it without mockups17:20
th1aI mean, basically, the changes in the release were the safe first step in that process, correct?17:21
yvlpre-requisites, yes17:21
th1aOK.  That'll do.  ;-)17:21
yvlthank you :)17:21
th1aThanks, yvl.17:21
yvlI wish I could communicate my excitement on the topic though :)17:22
th1aYour babbling sounded good.17:22
menesisin first half of the week, I have updated zope package versions to the just released zope toolkit 1.0c317:22
menesisrun the tests on them, and packaged17:23
menesissince Wed I prepared for releases17:24
menesismerged a few branches (yvl merged others)17:25
menesisreviewed them, including yvl's gradebook score system refactoring17:25
menesisthat wasn't merged.17:25
menesison thursday and friday tested schooltool and gradebook17:26
menesisand fixed some new and old display issues17:26
menesislike links in manage view being clickable on the empty space17:26
menesisyvl's fix broke schoolyears view and request report views in gradebook17:27
menesisfixed heading of some forms (add forms, access control) to be at the top of the grey box17:28
yvlumm, which fix broke stuff?17:28
yvland why tests didn't catch it?17:28
menesismade it possible for students to click 'View Gradebook' in section views17:29
yvl(and I thought I merged manage view links fix???)17:29
menesisyvl: no test for that. you changed the style of .navigation_header from block to inline, but this style was used in other pages17:30
yvlok, well chat about this later17:31
yvlapologies for interruption17:32
th1amenesis:  So we essentially have fresh release candidates now for Maverick?17:32
menesiswell it was just tweaks to your fixes17:32
menesisth1a: I am doing releases only today17:32
th1aAnd we should be able to make them final in one week if there are not additional fixes.17:33
menesisactually I have made schooltool 1.5.2 egg already, gradebook will follow soon17:33
menesisothers haven't seen any worthy fixes to make a release.17:33
menesisI have updated descriptions you sent me17:34
menesismaybe there are translation updates17:34
menesisif not then it will be only schooltool and gradebook releases17:34
th1aBut basically, we're in good shape for an on-time Maverick release, correct?17:35
menesisI have looked and updated some of the bugs, but not much I could fix17:35
yvl(looked at your commits; thanks, menesis)17:36
th1aOK, thanks menesis.17:36
menesiswell, I am releasing what is available, that is almost on time17:36
menesisbut I have bumped milestones of some bugs that were not fixed17:37
th1aYou never really get everything in a time-based release you'd like to.17:37
th1aThat's what makes it a time-based release.17:37
th1aIt isn't that you get everything done on-time.  ;-)17:37
th1aWe'd better move on to aelkner.17:37
th1aI do think there are a number of issues with the pdf footer that are going to take a little longer, so for the moment aelkner should just do the hacky override thing we discussed last week.17:38
aelkneruh, creating my own template, right?17:39
aelknerrather than using the macro17:39
aelknercopying the macro to my own template and removing the footer there?17:39
yvlif by macro you mean (in schooltool/app/browser/templates/)17:40
yvlthen yes17:40
aelkneryes, so i have to copy and change that to my local project17:40
aelknerand register it to override the default17:41
yvlyou can then do one of two things17:41
yvldo you need footer removed from every report in the local project?17:41
aelknerthere's only the one report17:41
th1a(so far)17:41
yvloverride it is, then :)17:41
aelkneryeah, for now17:42
aelknerso i need to create and overrides.zcml, is that what you mean?17:42
yvland put the adapter there17:42
aelknerok, will do17:42
yvl(the one that currently uses .report.DefaultPageTemplate as a factory17:43
yvland has name="default"17:43
yvlin app/browser/configure.zcml17:43
yvlthanks, aelkner17:43
aelknerno prob17:43
th1aOK, second aelkner issue -- I'm hijacking the first part of your report aelkner.17:44
aelknerthat's ok17:45
th1aSo apparently report sheets aren't in packaged CanDo -- presumably because CanDo uses old gradebook.17:45
th1a(note that I'm not complaining about this)17:45
th1aAnyway, is that the most likely explanation?17:45
aelkneryes, cando is not schooltool-bases, but rather includes schooltool and schooltool.gradebook eggs17:46
aelknerwhat i mean to say is, cando is not plugged into schooltool17:46
aelknerbut rather it is it's own master app, using schoooltool eggs17:47
th1aBut the .debs?17:47
yvlschooltool is released as a set of python libraries + "server"17:48
yvlcando is another "server" that uses same libraries17:48
th1aSo probably it is some weird little misconfiguration and not old versions?17:49
yvlyes, that, in my opinion17:49
yvlbut we need to look at it at some point17:49
th1aWell, that's kind of the next question.17:49
th1aBut first, aelkner, you should look at why you can't do report sheets in CanDo.17:50
replaceafillwe're talking about debs in lucid, correct?17:50
replaceafill(maybe i can give a hand)17:50
th1aNext, David Ally is generally forcing us to deal with CanDo.17:50
th1areplaceafill:  Yes.17:50
th1aAnd to have a schooltool.niepa package that includes CanDo.17:51
th1aThat is,17:51
th1athe end result needs to be a server that includes CanDo and niepa customizations.17:52
th1aSo we have to discuss how to approach that.17:52
menesisCanDo has its own gradebook and schooltool.gradebook is not included17:53
menesisin any zcml17:54
th1aWell, that would explain it.17:54
menesisso report sheets or other features are not available17:54
aelknernot true about not including schooltool.gradebook17:54
aelknercando.gradebook uses it17:54
yvlso, correct me if I'm wrong, but the goal is to configure schooltool.niepa to use CanDo + Gradebook and leave original CanDo without schooltool.gradebook?17:55
th1aBasically we have instances that use CanDo and st.gradebook, but that's not the default configuration of the debs?17:56
th1ayvl:  I'd say yes.17:56
th1aBasically VA gets what it wants in the CanDo debs.17:56
menesiscando.gradebook does not use schooltool.gradebook at all. only for one interface.17:56
aelkneronly for one interface does not mean 'not at all'17:57
menesisok it does use schooltool.requirement17:57
aelknerbut that was available in the oldest of schooltool.gradebook eggs17:58
aelknerway before we had report sheets17:58
yvlirrelevant, IMHO17:58
menesisbut even if report sheets become available in manage menu, I doubt they would be able to generate reports from competencies17:59
th1aThat's not the issue at this point.17:59
yvlreplaceafill, Jeff is using CanDo + Gradebook, right?17:59
aelkneryeah, that's not what they are asking for17:59
replaceafillyvl, yes, + intervention + journal17:59
replaceafillbut as dev eggs17:59
aelkneris he using report sheets?18:00
aelkneri don't think he is18:00
th1aBut the general approach to the issue, and we need debs,18:00
replaceafillnot dev actually, released eggs18:00
yvlso we only need to add one or two <include> directives in schooltool.niepa package?18:00
th1a^ yes that?18:00
aelknerwho says that is possible?18:00
aelknersimply adding a few directives and expecting it to work18:01
aelknerwho has done that and knows it works18:01
yvlreplaceafill ?18:01
yvl(and your brother maybe? ;) )18:02
replaceafillfor jelkner's instance, i only check out cando's trunk, and include the other eggs in buildout18:02
replaceafilland the plugins directory18:02
aelknerbut what versions of the eggs18:02
aelknerare there report sheets available?18:03
th1aThe only reason David has no report sheets is that the gradebook is not used*18:03
th1a* other than to provide one interface.18:03
replaceafillaelkner, yes, they are18:03
th1aWe can't all shit in our pants when it comes time to use the component architecture as it is intended.18:04
replaceafilljelkner's instance even has "Download Intervention CSV ZipFile" now :)18:04
aelknerso can the cando package work the same as your buildout does?18:05
replaceafilldont know much about how debs work :(18:05
aelknerme neither18:05
menesisyou can add slugs to /etc/schooltool/schooltool-cando/plugins18:06
menesis<include package="schooltool.gradebook">18:06
menesisor intervention18:06
th1aSo David should be able to do that on his instance, correct?18:07
menesisthe same like in buildout18:07
th1aWhere would he do it for the .deb?18:07
replaceafillmenesis, but he should make sure he has the intervention or journal deb installed, correct?18:08
replaceafilli mean18:08
replaceafillin case someone needs those with cando18:09
th1aOh... that's exactly what you already said.18:09
th1aSorry menesis!18:09
menesisreplaceafill: yes, of course18:09
replaceafillmenesis, because the debs don't have the magic buildout.cfg gives you, when you only include the egg and you download it automatically18:09
menesisapt-get install python-schooltool.intervention18:10
replaceafillgot it18:10
menesisvim /etc/schooltool/schooltool-cando/plugins/intervention.zcml18:10
menesis<include package="schooltool.intervention" />18:10
menesisthat's all18:11
aelkneri'll try that with my cando to see what happens18:11
menesisreplaceafill: cando does not automatically include available plugins18:11
th1aWe need to get that to David asap today.18:11
th1aThat is, instructions for turning his gradebook on.18:11
replaceafillconfirmed, it works18:12
replaceafillreportsheets are in cando in my lucid18:12
th1aFinally... so aelkner, do you know what you need to do now to get schooltool.niepa rocking with CanDo?18:12
aelknerno, that's not what we discussed here18:12
aelknerwe discussed adding schooltool.gradebook to cando18:12
aelknernot adding cando to schooltool.neipa18:13
th1aSo that's the final thing we need to discuss then.18:13
th1aIs it adding CanDo to schooltool.niepa or vice versa?18:13
aelknercando can not be added to anything18:14
replaceafilli guess it's what yvl said about cando being a "server"18:14
th1aWhere schooltool.niepa is equivalent to schooltool.cambodia, etc.18:14
th1aIt isn't REALLY a server.18:14
yvlit's an app definition18:14
replaceafilla setup/18:14
yvlby the way, schooltool.niepa is also an "app definition"18:14
th1aBut it doesn't have to be.18:14
yvland aelkner controls that :)18:15
th1aThat's what I'm getting at.18:15
th1aschooltool.niepa is also an app definition.18:15
aelkneri do?!18:15
yvlyou'll just have to rip some parts from
replaceafillserver + server18:15
th1aIt is your project, aelkner.18:15
menesisthere is a python-cando deb and you can use it as a plugin18:16
menesisif you include the right packages in niepa, like it is done in src/cando/cando2007/configure.zcml at the end18:17
th1aI think the proper explanation is that there is CanDo the plugin and CanDo the "app definition" which features the plugin.18:17
menesisi.e. copy the needed includes to your app's definition, not include this file18:17
yvlth1a, yes18:18
aelknerno, there is no cando plugin18:18
menesiscando.cando2007 is the app definition18:18
aelknermenesis is talking about cutting and pasting config from cando to neipa18:18
aelknerthat'e not the sae as plugging anyting in18:18
aelknermaking neipa a cando app18:19
th1aBut isn't that config what plugs in the component?18:19
yvlok, let's put it like this18:20
aelknerso i need to make schooltool.neipa be a version of cando, right18:20
aelknercut and paste cando.cando2007 config to it18:20
aelknerand have it start a cando server18:20
yvlno, just some parts of it18:20
yvladd cando to your dependencies18:21
yvland then add parts from cando2007/configure.zcml to18:21
yvlyour niepa/app/configure.zcml18:21
yvlyou'll have to figure out which parts are needed18:22
yvl<!-- Things we want in cando --> section looks promising18:22
yvlalso, CanDo defines it's own skin18:22
yvlyou may need to inherit Niepa skin from that one18:22
yvlalso, look at <includeOverrides package="cando.newskin" file="overrides.zcml" />18:23
aelknerthus, making neiap a version of cando18:23
yvlthere might be useful stuff there18:23
yvldepends on the way you look at it18:23
th1aaelkner:  If that's the way you want to think about it, fine.18:23
aelkneri'm just reitterating my point about cando not being pljuggable18:24
replaceafillaelkner, i guess you're just using its parts18:24
yvlcando is a "version" of schooltool, you know ;)))))18:24
aelkneri know, it's just not pluggable18:24
aelknerinto schooltool, that is18:24
yvlyes, aelkner18:24
yvlnot out-of-the-box18:24
yvlyou'll have to plug it in "manually"18:25
aelknerinheriting from the cando skin is not in the least bit 'plugging' cando into schooltol, but anyway, it's not importaant18:25
aelkneri'll do whatever i need to18:25
* th1a notes for the record that we had a long conversation on the phone about not being pedantic about what "plugin" means in SchoolTool.18:26
yvlit's a grey area18:26
aelknersorry, couldn't resist18:26
th1aSo, we know what we're doing, aelkner?18:27
aelknerwe hope :)18:27
aelkneri just have try stuff and hope it works18:27
th1aOK. Have a good week gentlemen.  Sorry about the long meeting.18:27
aelknerif i have any problems, i can write the dev list18:27
yvla good plan (no irony intended)18:27
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:27
replaceafillthanks guys18:27
replaceafillbtw, yvl, intervention has another door to hell in intervention.getRequest :)18:27
th1aaelkner:  I guess I'll draft the quick response to David now.18:27
yvlreplaceafill, that thing tends to leak out everywhere in the code if you don't controll it.  And once it's out, it's hard to avoid it.18:28
yvlI meant - to stop using it18:29
replaceafillgot it18:29
replaceafillit's tempting though :P18:29
replaceafillbut i won't18:29
yvlglobal variables are always tempting18:29
yvlviews are a layer on (data, request)18:30
th1areplaceafill:  When we hit these i18n bugs, make sure you ask me about if we can just work around them.18:30
replaceafillth1a, understood18:30
th1aNobody tells me when little things like "your school" are i18n problems.18:30
aelknerreplaceafill, remind me, where and how is schooltool.neipa installed?18:32
aelkneri know you provided the server18:32
aelknercould you send me an email with login info please?18:33
yvlok... good luck guys!18:33
replaceafillaelkner, hhmm, you mean schooltool.zambia?18:33
aelknerno, schooltool.neipa18:33
aelknerwe installed it on your cambodia server i believe18:33
replaceafilli haven't installed neipa18:33
replaceafilli installed zambia a while ago18:34
aelknerwe didn't need that, we needed neipa18:34
aelknerare you sure?18:34
aelknerzambia is being delivered via packages that the user is installing themselves18:35
aelknerin the case of neipa, they needed it hosted18:35
aelkneri thought you set that up for us18:35
replaceafillhhmm nope18:35
aelknerwell, could you email me super-user access to that server so that i could check?18:36
aelkneri proise not to do anything bad18:36
replaceafillsure, will resend the email i sent you on August 218:36
replaceafillSchoolToolers VM login data18:36
aelkneri could look for that in gmail18:37
replaceafillsent anyway18:37
aelknerreplaceafill, could you please reset my password there, the one you sent isn't working18:39
replaceafillaelkner, done18:41
replaceafillit matches the one in the email18:41
aelkneri'm in, thanks!18:41
replaceafillchange it please :)18:41
replaceafillaelkner, if you're setting up testing instances, try to use ports 10000-20000, ok?18:42
aelkneri changed my password18:53
th1aaelkner:  Your phone arrived.19:20
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