IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2010-09-06

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th1aGood morning yvl, menesis, replaceafill, aelkner.16:31
th1amorning slash afternoon16:32
menesisafternoon :)16:32
* th1a imagines yvl running for a fresh cup of coffee.16:32
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:32
th1aOK menesis, what's our status?16:33
menesisall zope packages are in the PPA16:34
yvlhi guys16:34
menesisI have not made schooltool* releases compatible with those packages yet.16:35
menesisI have not created needs-packaging bugs for any of them, unless they existed already (only a few)16:35
th1aSo... one concern at this point is how much work is it to do this again for Natty?16:36
menesisI have not created any FFe bugs16:36
th1aesp. if we aren't in Maverick.16:36
menesisand I have not replied to my "need sponsors" email16:36
th1aThat is, are we essentially ready to go for Natty, too, or do we have to re-make all these packages from scratch?16:38
menesisI need to create a "[needs-packaging]" bug and reference it in debian/changelog, then reupload16:39
menesisif we want to push to maverick, then for each package, another feature-freeze-exception bug has to be created16:40
yvlI guess what th1a is also asking - how much time will it take to package *everything* for Natty16:40
menesisother than that, packages are ready for maverick16:40
menesisand for natty as well.16:41
th1aSo basically, at this point we've informally pointed out via email that we have all these packages,16:42
th1aand Mattias Klose has suggested that he'd actually be willing to deal with this mess.16:42
menesisif no upstream versions are needed, basically16:42
menesisdch -i -D maverick 'Upload to Ubuntu (LP: #1234)'16:42
th1aAnd we have to decide whether to really push the issue and file bugs?16:42
yvlif I understood him correctly, he suggested he is willing to *grant exceptions*16:43
menesisbzr bd -S ; dput ubuntu ../*.dsc16:43
menesisfirst, he was angry that we are late again16:44
menesisbut still he could grant the exceptions16:44
th1aYes, understandably.16:44
th1aBut we have not formally asked for those yet.16:44
menesishowever, no word was said about who will actually sponsor the uploads16:44
yvlyes, this is what's troubling me...16:45
menesisand that's quite a bit of work at the time when people are busy16:45
th1aSo it is safe to assume that nobody will be *more* frustrated with us if we say "never mind, we'll just get this in Natty."16:45
yvlif we start with "apologies and thank you for your patience <...>", then yes :)16:46
yvloh, and if we ask for sponsorship again the second it's possible16:47
th1aHere's the Natty schedule:
* th1a switches computers16:48
menesiswe missed the feature freeze so naturally we are in for the next release, unless we bother people with apologies and exceptions16:48
menesisanother point is the readyness of schooltool packages16:49
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yvl<menesis> we missed the feature freeze so naturally we are in for the next release, unless we bother people with apologies and exceptions16:49
yvl another point is the readyness of schooltool packages16:49
menesisI'm totally happy with the quality of zope packages16:49
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menesisbut not the way schooltool is started16:50
menesisconfiguration, log, and database layout and names16:50
th1a_There is a certain point where the Natty repositories are opened, though, right?16:50
th1a_Which is not yet.16:51
menesisthe package that has to be installed is named schooltool-2009 and it depends on python-schooltool.stapp2008fall, but it's 2010 fall already, wtf.16:51
menesisno upstart script, no apport integration for crash reports16:52
th1a_Let's not think about SchoolTool packages for a moment.16:52
th1a_Let's focus on the 150 other packages that are ruining our lives.16:52
th1a_So what's going to happen next is that the Natty repositories will be created at some point in the not too distant future, correct?16:53
menesis85 that are not in ubuntu yet.16:53
menesisnatty will be opened around the maverick release date, not sure what's first16:54
th1a_So first off, let's assume we're not going to push getting into Maverick, correct?16:54
th1a_In fact, I'll send a response to that effect.16:54
menesisthat is a decision for management to make16:55
menesispersonally I would like to avoid bothering people so close to the final freeze16:56
menesis10 days16:56
th1a_Yes, so we're agreed on that.16:56
th1a_Just to make clear what my priorities are at this point,16:56
th1a_I want to have *some* good news for Mark when I send in August invoices (which I need, btw),16:57
menesisand if we don't push into ubuntu... the ppa was never ready that early :)16:57
th1a_so at least having all the Zope packages ready is good.16:57
yvlmenesis makes a good point16:58
th1a_And when I send the end of year report in November (the earlier the better), I want to have everything in the Natty repositories.16:58
th1a_Which point?16:58
yvland this is keeping in mind transition to ZTK16:58
yvlthet ppa is early this release16:58
yvlgives hope, at least to me :)16:58
menesisthe latest ZTK packages, too16:58
th1a_Right... so at least you guys are satisfied with the Zope packages?16:59
th1a_Not thinking "Oh, we really need to update these to... X?"16:59
menesisyes... except, I would have liked to drop more dependencies.16:59
menesisI only dropped one, zope.deferredimport, and this needed upstream zope work17:00
th1a_So for all intents and purposes, there is a high likelihood we won't have to touch these again in Natty at all.17:00
th1a_Or many of them at least....17:00
menesisvery likely17:00
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menesissome that were packages last in March needed only minor touches17:01
menesisbut could be simply copied from lucid17:01
th1a_So basically, the Zope packages are ready now, and we can focus on SchoolTool packages?17:02
menesisfor Natty, I hope ZTK 1.0 is released and we will stick to that set17:02
th1a_OK, explain that to me.17:03
menesisnow we only have ZTK 1.0a317:03
th1a_OK, so there may be a few changes between alpha, beta and 1.0.17:03
yvlyes, but little.17:03
yvlZTK and BlueBream are almost done17:04
menesisbut yes the last commit I made today was approx "Final versions.cfg for Maverick"17:04
th1a_But we are going to upload whatever we have at exactly the earliest possible moment.17:04
th1a_To Natty.17:04
th1a_And then make any subsequent changes.17:04
menesisand now the next thing that is on my plans is do schooltool egg/deb releases17:04
th1a_And, to be honest, probably stick with ZTK 1.0 in Ubuntu for as long as possible.17:05
menesisand then, making schooltool server and configuration better17:05
menesisth1a_: yes17:05
yvlwell, as long as it makes sense17:05
yvlwe use a superset of ZTK17:06
th1a_Of course.17:06
yvlif our world moves to ZTK 1.1+, so shall we17:06
* yvl wants automation, where it is possible, by the way17:06
menesisthere was a blueprint for Maverick "delivering apps post-release"17:07
yvlversion checks, warnings, lintian - on nightly basis17:07
th1a_Just to be clear, in the future our approach will be that after ZTK 1.1 final comes out, we'll start thinking about it for the Ubuntu release AFTER the next one.17:08
th1a_We're done chasing Zope.17:09
th1a_So next week let's talk in detail about SchoolTool packaging, but feel free to get started on it menesis.17:10
th1a_menesis:  I do appreciate you putting in the hours to get the Zope packages done today.17:11
menesisI am starting with schooltool upstream and no changes to packaging17:11
yvldoes it make sense to first get ST packaged as before to Natty17:12
menesisth1a_: thanks. but it's my fault I did not have this ready at least one month ago.17:12
yvland then rework all the crappyness?17:12
th1a_menesis:  That's true too.17:13
th1a_We don't need to rush SchoolTool packages at this point.17:13
menesisyvl: natty does not exist yet17:13
menesisfirst we have to get ready for maverick17:14
th1a_We need to have Maverick packages ready in, say, two weeks.17:14
th1a_Let's say release candidate due the 20th.17:14
th1a_That is, SchoolTool packages for our PPA release.17:15
th1a_Sound right?17:15
yvlwe're chatting..., sorry17:16
yvl* we were17:17
menesisI will have packages ready this week.17:17
menesisthen it's a question what else we want to have in for maverick17:17
th1a_Essentially, this is going to be a maintenance release.17:18
menesistimetables? new reports? more data exported? "Start SchoolTool" in Applications menu?17:18
th1a_NOT new timetables.17:18
menesisyes I would like to only increase minor version numbers17:19
th1a_Things with no data risk.17:19
th1a_Reports and exports would be nice to have.17:19
menesisand schedule major release (SchoolTool 1.6) for February 201017:20
th1a_I'm a little unsure about where I should be looking on Launchpad to make these decisions.17:20
th1a_Well, I'm thinking major release in April but with a more substantial beta period.17:20
th1a_Basically us feature freezing when Ubuntu does.17:20
th1a_There is no benefit to a February release.17:21
th1a_It is in the middle of the school year almost everywhere.17:21
menesis was a milestone for what we wanted in next major release17:21
menesisnot much of those were done17:21
menesis1.5.1 is a milestone for tomorrow's release. will create 1.5.2 then for things that should be done for maverick still17:22
th1a_Well, one question at this point is what yvl is going to do for the next two weeks.17:23
yvla good question - a lot to do, just need to choose ;)17:23
aelknerlandscape reports?17:24
th1a_Well, maybe.17:24
th1a_But there's this whole list of other things.17:24
th1a_First question is, what about timetables?17:25
menesisth1a_: will have read the rules carefully but yes we should stick to ubuntu freeze/release dates. so not february but early april for final release.17:25
th1a_At this point should we put off finishing them for two more weeks?17:25
th1a_Two weeks of smaller bug fixes would be nice.17:25
yvland I'd also like to put few days into "versionator"17:26
yvlat least add ad-hoc lintian support17:26
yvl(it's a small tool we use now, to check versions between various KGSes, Debian unstable, PPAs and Ubuntu repositories)17:27
th1a_Well, it doesn't seem like something we need *now*.17:27
th1a_Would it be problematic for you to set timetabling aside and come back to it.17:28
th1a_i.e., you'll forget all of it and have to take a week to re-learn it.17:28
yvlwell, timetabling has been set aside already17:28
yvlso, no, no problems :)17:28
th1a_That's what I was thinking.17:28
yvlsmall bugfixes it is17:28
yvlcontact export/import17:29
th1a_OK, so I should go through bugs and assign high priorities for maverick for the ones I want done.17:29
yvland other that are fast to fix and have small impact17:29
th1a_And you can do the same at your discretion.17:29
yvlI'll skip those small bugs that are somewhat nasty17:29
th1a_Perhaps you can look at aelkner's landscape problem too.17:30
th1a_Have you filed a bug for that aelkner?17:30
th1a_I think we've covered Lithuania.17:31
yvlI'll see what I can do :)17:32
th1a_Hm... I was going to suggest asking on the ReportLab mailing list, but I guess this isn't ReportLab but a reimplementation of part of it.17:32
th1a_What milestone should I be targeting?17:33
menesis1.5.2 for things to be done in next 3 weeks or so17:35
menesisI will release 1.5.1 tomorrow17:36
th1a_Moving on then...17:37
th1a_Thanks yvl and menesis.17:37
th1a_aelkner: What is up with you?17:37
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aelknerI added the comment just now that you requested to provide yvl with ore info about rendering the landscape PDF17:38
aelknerlast week i had to attend a funeral and a wedding, so I took time off for that17:39
aelknerbut i did get the timetable PDF views finished17:39
th1a_Can you point him at a branch?17:39
aelknera branch for what?17:40
th1a_The pdf views that are malfunctioning?17:40
aelknerthey are in my zambia branch which i was just mentioning17:41
aelkneri pushed the latest up to launchpad17:41
th1a_That would be good to put in the report.17:41
aelknerif you gave me a chance...17:41
th1a_OK.  :-)17:41
yvlthanks, aelkner17:41
aelknerbut yvl doesn't need that branch to recreate the problem17:41
aelknerhe just needs to create a report of is own that is too wide17:42
th1a_Well, it will save him time.17:42
th1a_Time I'm paying for.17:42
aelknerfine - he has my branch now17:42
aelkneranyway, i still need to finish up the score system changes to schooltool.gradebook17:43
* replaceafill noticed last week gradebook worksheets get weird when they are too wide17:43
aelknerand i will be putting the last worksheet visited fix in the same branch17:43
aelknerwith a test this time17:43
th1a_replaceafill: Could you file a bug?17:44
aelknerthat's my report17:44
aelkneri mean, that is all for now17:44
replaceafillth1a_, ah ok, i put it in my "fix plugin css" umbrella17:44
aelknerreport may have been ambiguous since we are talking about PDFs17:45
aelknerin other words, that's my report for this meeting17:45
th1a_OK, thanks aelkner.17:45
replaceafillok, first thing i want to ask17:46
replaceafillwhere do we stand on "ajax" in schooltool?17:46
replaceafillyvl, i'd like your comments on this please17:47
replaceafilli ask because of this:17:47
replaceafilli changed forms in cambodia to 1024 px wide17:47
replaceafilland i worked in a way to enter villages, provinces from the student form17:47
replaceafillso i coded a javascript popup form17:48
replaceafillthat allows you to enter the new data17:48
replaceafillbut now i have to refresh the original student form17:48
replaceafillto show the new data17:48
replaceafilli know "ajax" is not needed for THAT17:49
th1a_The journal uses ajax, but also works without it.17:49
replaceafillyes, that's part of my question17:49
yvlwhat we usually do in these cases,17:49
replaceafillin cambodia, after asking javier, i assume javascript will be always on17:49
yvlis post the unfinished form to a new page instead of a pop-up17:49
yvlhidden fields17:50
th1a_At this point I think Javascript is more of a concern because of testing than end-users.17:50
replaceafillth1a_, true17:50
th1a_From an end-user point of view we can assume it.17:50
th1a_Let's make that official.17:50
replaceafillother work i did for cambodia was the gradebook17:52
replaceafilli managed to create the report sheets, not through UI, but through a subscriber17:52
replaceafillyvl, i again, assumed, the ordering of the level container here17:53
replaceafilli mean, if grades, 9 and 12 are the one different17:53
replaceafilli looked for the 9 and 12th places in the container17:53
replaceafillwell, 8 and 11 actually...17:54
yvlwell, my intention was too keep it simple for now17:54
yvlif you want to say "first 8 grades should get this worksheet"17:54
yvlyou should write the exact same sentence in python17:54
replaceafillyvl, i also found this
replaceafillgot my attention and i think is "kind of wrong?"17:55
yvlah, crap, sorry - I forgot to comment17:55
replaceafillyvl, no problem, i know you're busy (smile)17:56
replaceafillth1a_, in salvadorean news, i set a meeting with el calvario, september 917:56
replaceafillto do a little demo/training17:56
yvlSo, your change there makes sense.  I'd go even further and make it an adapter instead of subscriber.17:57
replaceafillyvl, correct me if i'm wrong but the disadvantage of suscribers is that they cant be disabled in plugins, correct?17:57
replaceafillor overwritten17:57
replaceafillgot it17:58
yvlso an event adapter subscriber would be more convenient17:58
yvlsee schooltool/schoolyear/schoolyear.py17:58
th1a_replaceafill:  Good, let me know how the meeting goes.17:58
replaceafillyvl, thanks!17:59
replaceafillth1a_, will do17:59
replaceafillto finish just to say:17:59
th1a_replaceafill:  So are we getting to another check-in point with Cambodia?17:59
replaceafillth1a_, yes, i just had the "refresh" form question17:59
replaceafilland the levels question17:59
replaceafilli guess i can now show the "initial" gradebook17:59
th1a_Got to keep that conversation going.18:00
replaceafillalthough i haven't had feedback from piseth (which javier assigned to review my google spreadsheet)18:00
replaceafillth1a_, right18:00
th1a_The fact of the matter is that it is easy to fix the particulars.18:00
replaceafillalso i fixed a small gradebook error reported by ryanpg18:00
replaceafill(ryanpg btw is piloting schooltool in his school he said)18:01
th1a_Does anyone have any particular ideas for organizing a map of SchoolTool using schools?18:01
th1a_The mapping functionality in LaunchPad seems to be deprecated.18:01
th1a_But we have enough random users that we need a census of them.18:02
th1a_And I'm undecided on the best method.18:02
replaceafilllaunchpad uses google map, right?18:02
th1a_Yes, but it doesn't work.18:02
replaceafillok, just to wrap up18:02
th1a_Sorry to distract.  ;-)18:03
replaceafilli also found some missing lines in the gradebook and intervention base.cfg files18:03
replaceafilli asked menesis and he helped18:03
replaceafillalso during the weekend i got curious with the schooltool-2009 installation error in lucid18:03
replaceafillbecause that also was asked before in launchpad (
yvlpackage gnomes stole :)18:04
replaceafilland found the reported error which menesis already fixed18:04
replaceafillth1a_, and finally i patched the gctaa cando instance18:04
replaceafillmet with jelkner to set it up18:05
replaceafilland his coworker Iasaac Zawolo had some questions too18:05
replaceafillabout the gradebook18:05
replaceafilland i guess he reported a couple of bugs18:05
replaceafillone already reported by jelkner18:05
replaceafillabout categories18:05
replaceafillthey want teachers being able to customize that18:05
replaceafilland the other about dropping lower grades too18:05
th1a_Yeah... those are both understandable.18:06
replaceafillth1a_, that's my report...18:06
th1a_I'll see how they fit in the triage situation.18:06
aelkneryou might want to assign me some of the bugs in the gradebook are to save time18:06
replaceafillyvl, thanks for the help (smile)18:06
aelknerreplaceafill, you HAVE to get back to proper emoticons18:07
th1a_aelkner:  So you should have some things for Mpelembe to look at soon?18:07
th1a_We need a check-in with them soon.18:07
aelkneri proposed the merge, but i don't know when it will be released18:07
th1a_Yeah, but these are reports right, can you send them an example?18:08
aelknerwhom do i email now?  isn't Jen gone by now?18:09
th1a_Send it to the same people, including Jen.18:09
replaceafillyvl, this is the one to use as base -> from schooltool.schoolyear.subscriber import EventAdapterSubscriber, right?18:09
replaceafillgot it18:09
yvlit's not in a right place18:09
yvlbut that's the one to use :)18:09
yvland seriously - I'm glad to help :)))18:10
th1a_menesis:  I'll send you new descriptions for the SchoolTool packages tomorrow.18:10
yvlno need to thank me ;)18:10
th1a_It's his job.18:10
th1a_OK, have a great week gentlemen!18:10
* th1a_ drops the bag of gravel.18:10
th1a_Happy Labor Day!18:10
replaceafillthanks everybody18:11
aelknergreat week everyone18:11
yvlth1a_ is right - it's my job to be glad to help :)18:11
menesisaelkner: what merges do you need? zambia?18:11
yvlgreat week guys!18:11
th1a_The US has a non-May 1st Labor Day so nobody gets confused and thinks we're socialists.18:11
th1a_In case you were wondering.18:11
menesisaelkner: you need a zambia release?18:11
aelknermenesis, but i will be able to send sample reports in the meantme18:11
aelknerwhen you have the chance to do it18:12
menesisaelkner: also, who needed the csv views that you have proposed merges a month ago?18:12
aelknerthat was for SLA to get their data out of schooltool18:12
aelknerbut i'm sure th1a_ wouldn't mind having that in the release18:13
th1a_otoh, not a huge priority either.18:14
th1a_But it makes sense to make it available to other users.18:14
aelknerand it may be well advised to not let things get too old, lest we leave hings behind18:14
menesisI'll merge them18:15
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