IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2010-08-30

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th1aGood morning/afternoon yvl, menesis, aelkner, replaceafill.16:30
yvlgood morning16:30
* yvl notices the time and runs away to make coffee...16:30
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
aelknermorning all16:31
th1aI guess we'll let replaceafill start.16:32
replaceafilljavier finally responded last week16:33
replaceafilli made several UI changes to cambodia16:33
yvlfwd, please? :)16:33
replaceafillyvl, i did16:34
replaceafill(i guess)16:34
replaceafilli also worked in cleaning a css conflict with cando + gradebook16:34
replaceafillyvl, i worked in a branch because i wasnt sure what is the best way to handle that16:35
replaceafilli mean, should plugins provide their own layer16:35
replaceafillcando does16:35
replaceafillbut the gradebook doesnt16:35
yvlthere are several ways to do that, I'm a bit undecided at the moment16:36
replaceafillah ok16:36
yvlI'd like all extensions to have "namespaces" in their css16:36
th1aThat's what I was thinking.16:36
replaceafilllike 'gradebook-container'?16:37
yvlsomething like that16:37
yvljust some standard way of naming16:37
th1aNot that we want them re-inventing the wheel.16:37
replaceafillthey won't collide that way16:37
aelkneryeah, a convenion of some sort would help avoid confusion16:38
yvlprecisely :)16:38
replaceafilland i just noticed cando wont build with the latest changes16:38
replaceafilla buildout version problem16:38
replaceafilli guess we need to update cando buildout configuration16:38
replaceafillto use the same as trunks, right?16:38
replaceafilli mean base.cfg16:39
replaceafillmaybe the extends and find-links lines?16:39
replaceafilland btw, cando is still svn16:39 not launchpad yet16:39
yvlyes, I was going to bring this up today16:39
yvlfirst, ther's a question for th1a16:40
th1aWhat's the question?16:40
yvldo we want CanDo in Maverick; when and where do we want it?16:40
yvlPPA? Universe? Now? Few months after release?16:41
yvlOn demand in, say, 2011?16:41
th1atbh I don't have any strong feelings about it.16:41
th1aIt is not a priority.16:41
menesisreplaceafill: i will solve the cando buildout problem soon16:41
th1aPPA is fine for the near future.16:41
replaceafillmenesis, ah cool thanks16:42
yvlok, PPA after Maverick release then16:42
th1aI mean, that's the status quo, right?16:42
yvlI just wanted it to be explicit16:42
yvlwasn't sure...16:42
yvlthen - updating CanDo to new KGS is also not a priority16:43
th1aNot a priority for YOU, yvl.16:43
th1a(or menesis)16:43
yvlsorry, that's what I meant16:43
th1aIf it is something replaceafill can quickly bring up to date that would be good.16:44
yvlIt would be better if we wait until 1.6 release16:44
th1aI don't, in general, want CanDo getting too far out of sync (ever again).16:44
yvlswitch from stable to stable16:44
yvl(not to trunk at any point)16:44
yvlif it can wait a month...16:45
replaceafillso, to sum up, the definite approach to fix cando css issue is to put namespaces, correct?16:45
yvland we can then also move it to Launchpad maybe?16:45
th1aI am ok with that approach.16:45
replaceafillcando-table, cando-foo, cando-bar...16:45
th1a(the css namespace approach, that is)16:45
yvlwhere it's clashing only16:45
yvlfor now16:46
replaceafill+1 on moving cando to launchpad16:46
th1aSo the last time we talked about this, we didn't definitively move CanDo?16:46
yvlno, we just thought that it would be a good idea16:46
th1aWe certainly talked about it enough.16:46
replaceafillth1a, no, it's still at
yvlit would be good to keep commit history though16:46
yvlit's useful16:46
th1aIt will all still be in svn though, unless we turn the server off.16:47
th1aAt this point, it doesn't seem like it will actually happen unless we don't worry about the history.16:47
yvlbut I prefer to switch dev focus to Launchpad and update buildbots16:47
th1aThat is fine with me.16:47
yvlwell, it's been done before16:48
th1aI just want it done.16:48
yvllet's do the release and give some love to CanDo after? :)16:48
yvlgreat :)16:48
yvlkick me if I forget ;)16:48
replaceafillok, th1a, to finish i'm going to send the po template to cambodia when i'm done with the latest UI changes16:49
replaceafillso they can translate everything i changed so far16:49
replaceafilland i can take a look of the UI in khmer16:49
replaceafillth1a, i guess that's it16:50
th1aYeah, I wasn't sure if I was doing something wrong but it looked like less than half of it was translated on my trunk versino.16:50
replaceafillyes, there are a lot of new messages since we moved from the demo16:51
replaceafillthat is what it's translated to khmer16:51
th1aYeah, we changed a lot of the UI, so it isn't surprising.16:52
th1aDid you work with your local school as well?16:52
replaceafillah yes!!! el calvario gradebook is done!16:53
replaceafill(damn i forgot to report)16:53
replaceafilli'm going to set up a meeting with the principal today16:53
replaceafillso i can go to the school16:53
th1aWhich changes were for them?16:54
replaceafillwell, not many changes to core gradebook, i just created default report sheets16:55
replaceafillthey worked fine for el calvario16:55
th1aDid you make the report sheets apply to specific levels?16:56
replaceafillnot yet, i talked to the 7-9 teachers and they agreed to use the same layout a 1-616:56
replaceafillso it wasn't necessary16:56
replaceafillit will for cambodia though16:56
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th1aSo you have some things in the queue to do for Cambodia?16:58
replaceafillyes, enough for a couple of days, then i'm going to send my changes to Javier16:58
replaceafillchanges in the some default groups (views, new levels, etc)16:59
replaceafilldefault views16:59
replaceafill(groups, new levels, etc)16:59
th1aThe report sheet thing should take a few days at least.17:00
replaceafillah and the popup form javier wants to input villages, provinces, etc from the student form17:00
replaceafillth1a, that's it17:01
th1aQuick interlude...17:01
th1aAssuming we, um, start assuming Javascript,17:01
th1awe could start adding in "Change successful" type pop ups17:01
th1aon the many forms which sort of just cycle back when you make a change, right?17:02
replaceafillwell, for cambodia, javier said JS could be forced in the browsers17:02
th1aWe're really just crippling ourselves at this point to not use javascript.17:02
th1aBut anyhow, without getting too derailed here, we should probably do that.17:03
replaceafillyvl, i like the z3c.flashmessage? approach better17:03
th1aJavascript popups.17:03
aelknerthe way launchpad does it?17:03
replaceafillwhen you edit something, then get back to the index screen and you get the message saying you did good17:03
aelknerthey give a popup that disolves17:04
th1aSomething like that.17:04
replaceafillth1a, right now, you go to the edit view, change something and get the same edit form with the success message17:04
replaceafilli think you should go to the edit form, change something and if everything is fine, you go back to the person index (or whatever other view) and you see the succes message there17:05
replaceafillnot in the form17:05
replaceafillthe z3c.flashmessage package use this approch (using sessions i guess)17:05
replaceafillthe edit form queue the message, and the index view displays it17:06
th1aSorry, kid crisis.17:08
th1aI'm back.17:08
yvlso, in what scenarios do you want the pop-ups?17:08
th1aI was just thinking as I was setting up demos last week.17:08
th1aThere are a number of places where you submit a form and end up back at the form.17:09
replaceafilledit forms mostly17:09
th1aSometimes with a small success message, sometimes not.17:09
yvlwhat about in-place editing?17:09
th1aAfter you submit the form.17:10
th1aAnyhow, I'm dragging us off topic.17:10
th1aSomething to keep in mind for the future though.17:10
yvljust my two cents, if I may17:10
yvlfirst, I've been thinking about this for a *while* now17:11
yvland I really miss the UI sugar17:11
yvljavascript complicates testing, and when not tested may break like our FCK widget17:11
yvland, believe me, it's a b*tch to test it17:12
yvlit has been done by many people, it's always a maintainance burden17:12
yvlso we need to be careful17:12
yvlbut we definitely should add some dynamics in the pages17:13
yvlespecially the forms, like th1a mentioned17:13
yvlso in general - I'm strongly inclined to add the sugar17:13
yvlI also liked Launchpad's in-place editing17:13
yvland I think we can add that at some point17:14
yvlassuming we move to z3c.form17:14
yvland write what glue we need, of course17:14
yvlit just has to be extremely simple17:14
yvlthe javascript part of it, I mean17:15
yvlI'm done :)17:15
th1aOK.  Now you can start talking about packaging.  ;-)17:15
th1a(or menesis)17:16
yvllet's start with some good news then? ;)17:16
yvlas menesis pointed out, the freeze does not affect us that much17:16
th1aYes... that is good.17:16
yvlso, actually, we still have some time17:16
yvlSep 16th is the deadline17:16
yvlfor the *final* schooltool release17:17
yvlso we got a very small window, actually17:17
yvland we depend on other people to upload part of Zope form PPA to Universe17:18
th1aExactly where are we right now?17:18
menesisI have most of packages that are in Ubuntu updated17:19
menesisand uploading other packages to the ppa, so that sponsors can take them and upload to archive17:20
menesishalf of all packages are okay.17:20
menesiswhat's left are update mostly to newer versions and upload to ppa17:21
th1aHow long do those take?17:21
menesiscan take as little as 5 minutes per package17:21
menesisthe more complicated packages are uploaded already17:22
menesisI think the rest are mostly repetitive check/modify/upload17:22
menesisshould take 2-3 days to complete17:23
th1aSo have some of our packages been approved by sponsors already?17:23
menesisthen, ask for sponsors to upload them, and I move to release and package newer schooltool17:24
th1aI guess you said wait until this week because of the beta freeze?17:24
menesisno, I have not asked anyone to upload what's already available17:24
menesisshould have been good to ask earlier17:24
th1aWe should do that now, correct?17:24
menesisbut now it is beta freeze until september 2, not a good time to upload17:25
menesiswe can ask now17:25
th1aWell, perhaps we should give them a warning.17:25
menesisto see who is willing to sponsor them17:25
yvlyes, we talked about that today17:25
th1aWe'd better get that process going.17:25
yvlfew days warning should help, IMHO17:26
menesisI have posted some instructions to
yvlI'll also probably make a small tool to sort the package upload order17:26
menesisth1a: if you could ask for me that would be a big help17:27
menesisbecause I tend to defer writing emails :(17:27
th1aWell, I would need you to write exactly what I'm asking for and exactly who I'm asking, and you would have to answer any questions, so it seems unnecessarily indirect.17:28
th1aI'll happily proof read and edit though.17:29
th1aIf that helps.17:29
th1aOr I can just have yvl come and glare over your shoulder.17:30
th1aYou're just writing to other packaging geeks, so it isn't really a big deal.17:30
menesisI'd like the initial mail "hello we need help uploading a lot of packages"17:31
menesiswith cc me and I answer the question sthen17:31
th1aWell, if you want to write to me explaining EXACTLY what I'm asking for, because all this remains hazy in my mind, I'll write the email.17:32
th1aOK, send me that today, please.17:33
menesisso it's the same if I simply write it myself17:33
menesisand better17:33
menesisthat I send it myself17:33
th1aWhatever it takes.17:33
menesisok will have to do it17:34
menesisor rather, should have done last month17:34
th1aNow, moving on to SchoolTool itself.17:35
th1aI'm leaning toward thinking we should defer a new point release until Natty.17:36
th1aPut 1.4.3 (or whatever) in Maverick.17:36
yvlit has a changed KGS, so personally I prefer bumping the version17:38
yvl(and we kind of did that internally already, to 1.5)17:38
th1aMore than the exact number, we're not really adding any significant big features at this point.17:38
yvlbut I see your point17:38
menesisthere are not much changes in trunk, I only remember timetables for part of term feature17:39
menesisand maybe yvl will merge more timetables work17:39
th1aWe've really been focusing on the pilot features.17:39
th1aTimetabling should have more time to test.17:39
menesisso it maybe does not deserve a new point release17:40
th1aIt doesn't from the user's point of view.17:40
menesisbut now trunk and 1.4 are based on different and partly incompatible zope kgs17:40
th1aI don't care what number.17:40
th1aAll I'm saying is that at this point we're not trying to jam new features into the release.17:41
* yvl is actually really happy to hear this17:41
menesisi.e. the 1.5.1 that I should release on friday is not backwards compatible with plugins for 1.4 series17:41
menesiswell the numbers will be what they are17:42
th1aThis sort of makes up for really shifting our release schedule back at least a month.17:42
menesisbut there is no time to get in many new features17:42
th1aIt is fine.17:42
yvlthank you, th1a!17:42
th1aI am not worried about new features in the release.17:42
th1aAt all.17:42
th1aWe just need to get it into Universe.  Period.17:43
th1aOK, anything else from Lithuania?17:44
yvlone moment17:44
th1amenesis:  EMAIL!17:44
yvlI saw aelkner mention some DB evolution failure on Fri or Sat17:44
aelknerit was ok, i figured out what was wrong17:45
* yvl is interested17:45
aelkneri branched schooltool trunk17:45
aelknerand did not add schooltool.gradebook to buildout.cfg17:45
aelknerso it crashed on evolving 33 to 3517:46
yvlah, yes, that :)17:46
yvlman, I'll fix that part someday17:46
yvlits too annoying17:46
aelkneryeah, it would be nice to have an error message that explains what to do17:46
yvland by that I mean gradebook plugability and evolution stupidness17:47
aelknerotherwise it's always a matter of pdb tracing17:47
yvlok then, no problems with this...17:47
yvlwhat else..17:47
aelknerare you asking me?17:47
th1aaelkner, Did you get the scheduling bug figured out?17:48
yvlsorry, no, just rummaging through my notes :)17:48
yvltalking to myself17:48
aelknerok, so before looking into the eolve bug, i tried to recreate the bug on a blank instance17:48
yvlok, nothing worth mentioning today17:48
aelknerusing the timetable that was in the xls file17:49
aelkneri schedule a section for Block A which was only available for days 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6 of the seven day schedule17:49
aelkneri also set up the term to have sta, sun off and the second tuesday of the term17:50
aelknerat first, i thought i saw a bug, but with a closer look i realized that it all worked fine17:50
aelknerit even skipped th tuesday holiday as expected17:50
aelknerthat got me to thinking17:50
aelknerperhaps if i was so easily confused by the rotating schedule, maybe so was Ryan17:51
aelknerwell, i haven't seen the bug yet17:51
aelknerso i was going to look at his instance17:51
th1aOK, do that.17:51
aelknerthat got me to solve the evolve bug17:52
aelknerthen, the instance came up ok17:52
yvlwhen you look at the instance,17:52
aelkneronly one problem: i couldn't log in :(17:52
aelknerdon't have the mamanger password17:52
th1aI'll send it to you.17:52
yvlcheck if there is something ST treats as *not* school days17:52
yvlthere are several rotating schedule handling cases17:53
th1aThe problem is not in the model, yvl.17:53
aelknerthe term determines what are not school days17:53
th1aWe hide things from you now to keep you focused  ;-)17:53
yvlok :)17:53
aelkneryeah, i don't want to bring the guys into this, they have enough on their plate17:54
yvlI won't get deep into this, that I promise17:54
th1aThe problem is simply that when the calendar displays events from the rotating schedule it uses the days of the week instead of the rotating schedule day.17:54
th1aThe data model is all correct.17:54
aelkneranyway, we need Ryan to send us a Data.fs with the manager password reset17:54
th1aI have a login.17:54
yvlyou know what...17:54
yvlif you could give me that Data.fs somehow17:54
yvlit would help me later on17:55
replaceafillaelkner, if you have the Data.fs you can reset the manager password using the python interpreter17:55
aelknerreplaceafill, how?17:55
* yvl badly needs "live" test data for timetable evolution...17:55
replaceafillaelkner, will look for the script i used and send it to you17:55
aelknerreplaceafill, thanks17:56
th1aI already sent him a login, so it isn't pressing.17:56
replaceafillah ok17:56
th1aSo aelkner and I will follow up on that.17:56
th1aIn the last four minutes here...17:56
th1aI had a great time at the local Maker Faire and everything worked.17:57
th1aHere's a video I have not yet watched:
th1aIn closing:  menesis, write that email!17:58
replaceafill"This system helps remotely-located schools share data with national governmental ministries of education, through Ubuntu and SMS"17:58
th1aWell, it was so professionally presented, it seems like it already works.17:58
menesisth1a: thanks for insisting17:58
yvl(I was serious about that Data.fs.  I promise to be gentle with sensitive data)17:59
th1ayvl:  I'll send it to you -- it isn't *too* sensitive since school hasn't started yet.17:59
th1aThe first thing you should do though is fix the .xls importer, which is broken for this timetable model.18:00
th1aSo maybe I should force you to use the spreadsheet.  ;-)18:00
aelknerth1a, your login didn't work18:00
th1aI guess replaceafill should just find his script.18:00
* replaceafill looks then18:01
aelknerth1a, in the meantime, i got the subgroup timetable view to present the group leader18:01
th1aOh, good.18:01
aelkneri have one isse with the rml regarding centering text18:02
th1aaelkner, Are you sure you typed it correctly, since it still works on the live instance?18:02
aelknerthe rml docs specify 'allignment' as one attribute of paraStyle18:02
th1aThere is an exclamation point there.18:02
aelknerbut alignment only works to center text left to right18:03
aelkneri was wondering if there is a vertical alignment option for paraStyle18:04
aelkneryvl, menesis, any ideas?18:04
th1aWhy do you need that?18:04
aelknerthe cells are rendering with text at the top of a cell sometimes, the bottom others18:05
aelknerdepending on the length of the text i suppose18:05
replaceafillaelkner, script sent18:05
aelknerreplaceafill, thanks18:05
yvltable cells have some vertical alignment18:06
replaceafillaelkner, run it in a copy of your Data.fs ;)18:06
yvldon't remember how it's called though18:06
replaceafillhey! i used a non-explicit emoticon!18:06
yvl<td vAlign="top">top</td>18:07
yvlgo to ....../parts/omelette/z3c/rml/tests/input/18:07
yvlfor example rmls18:07
aelknerreplaceafill, well done!18:07
aelkneron the emoticon i mean18:07
aelknerand thanks for the script, it worked like a charm18:08
yvlalso see <blockTableStyle> and <blockValign>18:08
aelkneryvl, thanks, that should help18:08
yvlby the way18:09
yvlth1a, I was cautiously thinking about biggest targets for the next release18:10
yvluser experience springs into mind18:10
th1aYes.  And reports.18:11
yvlUI polishing, speed, load tests on Tonido...18:11
yvland reports, yes!18:11
aelknerlandscape support?18:11
th1aNot another big plumbing project.18:11
yvlyes, aelkner :)18:11
yvlthere will be enough plumbing for me, th1a :)18:11
th1aOK, let's wrap this up.18:12
th1aI'm trying to keep yvl focused...18:12
th1aHave a great week gentlemen!18:12
th1amenesis:  Write that email!18:12
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:12
yvlgreat week to you all18:12
replaceafillthanks everybody18:13
replaceafillwow, the schooltoolbox looks really complex!18:13
th1aIt was funny because I had to give some thought to presentation.18:14
th1aLike, I bought a crossover cable because my switch was bigger than the server.18:15
th1aAnd I got an extension cord instead of using a whole power strip.18:16
th1aOtherwise what I was trying to show off would be dwarfed by other infrastructure.18:16
yvljust watched it18:18
yvllooks quite impressive...18:19
yvlhats off! :)18:19
th1aIt was good timing since by that point I'd had plenty of practice explaining it.18:19
* replaceafill likes the brochure on the box (smile)18:19
aelknerth1a, nice presentation!18:25
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replaceafilloh man19:31
replaceafillmenesis, is the problem with cando related to changes in the version.cfg file?19:32
menesisreplaceafill: i have fixed it19:32
replaceafillah great!19:32
menesisreplaceafill: but no19:32
replaceafilljelkner wants me to set up a new cando instance for him19:33
replaceafillwill try it now, thanks menesis19:33
menesisit was because a new version of z3c.recipe.tag was released, and got picked up because it was not in versions.cfg19:33
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menesisonly the trunk versions were changed. but cando is based on stable schooltool 1.4 so is not affected19:34
replaceafillgreat, it's building now19:35
jelknerth1a: are you here?19:35
th1aI am here.19:35
jelkneri just tried to call you house19:36
jelknergot an answering machine19:36
th1aI thought I heard a phone ringing in the distance.19:36
jelknercan i try again?19:36
jelknerand expect a more favorable outcome?19:36
th1aHere's a video I have not yet watched:
replaceafillth1a, watch it!19:41
jelkneri just watched it... it's great!19:59
th1ajelkner:  That should address the Liberia case.20:03
jelknerit does20:14
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