IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2010-08-23

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aksyvl: nice to see you back06:29
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krishnagirihi yvl07:33
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yvlgood morning, aks10:01
aksyvl: good morning10:09
yvlglad to see you're making progress on packaging10:10
aksyvl: yes, but we're bouncing at some random errors which we are trying to fix10:11
yvlKrishna Giri mentioned he can't find some packages with lower versions...10:11
yvlthey should be available at pypi10:12
yvland if you get stuck with the random errors, don't hesitate to ask10:12
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th1agood morning yvl, menesis, aelkner, replaceafill.16:30
replaceafillmorning/afternoon everybody16:30
aelknermorning all16:31
yvlgood morning guys16:32
th1aOK, first order of business is that getting our packages into Ubuntu has gone into flashing-red status.16:33
th1aWhere are we now?16:33
menesiswe are in feature freeze16:34
menesisand since I realized that I will not make it in time, my productivity has gone and I have done very little packaging16:34
th1amenesis, that is not acceptable.16:35
menesisI know :(16:35
th1aThose packages need to be finished this week, period.16:36
th1aIt is yvl's top priority, too.16:36
th1aIf you don't want to do it, tell him what needs to be done.16:36
th1aEveryone's job here may depend on it.16:37
menesisyvl has fixed schooltool to work with the newer versions of zope packages that I want to use, I'll ask him to merge them16:37
th1aMine, aelkner's, replaceafill's, yvl's, ok?16:37
th1aIt doesn't matter which packages, or even which version of SchoolTool it is.16:38
menesisand upload all the packages to the ppa, where sponsors can take them and upload to ubuntu16:38
menesisI know.16:38
th1aHow long will it take to get this done?16:39
menesisnot sure, have to see how it goes, how much time a few packages take, and estimate then16:41
menesisbut if it has to be done this week period, the target date is clear.16:42
th1aYes, it *must* be done this week.16:42
th1aI guess that's all there is to say about that.16:44
th1aMark asked me to set up a demo for him to try out SchoolTool, the first time that's happened in over 5 years.16:45
th1aSo I'm going to be working on that.16:45
th1areplaceafill:  Can you fix the CanDo CSS today?16:45
th1aOK, do that first.16:45
replaceafillwill do16:46
th1aAnd then install it on the demo instance.16:46
replaceafillgot it16:46
yvldo you need FCK editor fix also?16:47
th1aAlso, give me an account on the server (as "hoffman") so I can nuke the db if I need to.16:47
th1ayvl:  Would be nice.16:47
replaceafillth1a, ok16:47
yvlok, I'm nearly done with it16:47
th1ayvl:  What are you doing to it?16:47
yvlso that it won't break with paste or insterting a link16:48
yvlalso, minor cleanup of "Upload" and other buttons that are actually not working16:48
yvlthat's it16:49
th1aFiddling with the config settings?16:49
yvlminor changes16:50
yvlvery minor16:50
th1aYes, that's all it needed.16:50
th1aA little love and affection.16:50
menesisminor css proposal: when button-neutral class was added, it's color was made ugly light blue. It would be much better if the neutral color was grey.16:50
th1aI like the blue!16:51
th1aIt is from the same GNOME palette.16:51
replaceafillth1a, account details sent16:52
th1amenesis:  If you want to make a screenshot of a different button color, I'll consider it.16:53
yvlth1a, when's the demo scheduled?16:53
th1aWell, I'm basically just pointing Mark to it.16:54
th1a(that's what he wanted)16:54
th1aWith a few instructions.16:54
th1aHe wants to see what it looks like to a teacher, so, you know, if it takes a lot of commentary to make sense from a teacher's point of view, that would be a problem.16:55
th1aSo I just have to make up sections and fully populate them as much as possible.16:55
yvlare you thinking to also do the Cambodia demo?16:56
th1aAnd he also asked about student views, which is particularly why I'd like CanDo working, because iirc, they have better student views.16:56
yvlor a few screenshots maybe?16:56
th1ayvl:  Not really, since most of the changes there are in setup.16:56
th1aI could remind him of the video walkthrough.16:56
replaceafillth1a, better student views in CanDo?16:57
th1aStudents can log into CanDo, right?16:57
replaceafillyou mean, like the student being able to see his competencies grades?16:57
replaceafillah ok16:57
th1aStudents can do that, right?16:57
yvlCambodia may show how simple and focused ST can be easily made for specific deployments16:57
yvljust a random thought.16:58
replaceafilli think it's a good a approach to show the whole thing and then show something small like cambodia16:58
th1aI'll remind him of the Cambodia video.16:58
th1aHow was your vacation, yvl?17:00
yvlgreat, thanks!17:01
th1aOK, so you and menesis know what you're doing this week.17:01
yvlspent it in my parent's summer house17:01
yvlsouthern Lithuania17:02
th1aOn the coast?17:02
yvlno, in the woods :)17:02
th1a(I guess there is no coast in southern Lithuania)17:02
yvllots of nature, and a lot of rare species of everything17:02
yvlfrom mushrooms to birds17:02
th1aExcavate any WWII tanks?17:02
yvlthey're further south, I think ;)17:03
th1aOK, better move things along...17:03
yvl(at least I remember finding bunkers there :) )17:03
th1areplaceafill:  I'm going to send an email to Javier about the schedule.17:03
replaceafillth1a, ok17:04
th1aThat is, in response to replaceafill's query about deployment Javier said, essentially, well, I guess we underestimated how long this will take and we'll shoot for March.17:04
th1a(correct, replaceafill?)17:04
replaceafillmarch 201117:04
th1aAlthough most of the delay I'd argue has been on their side.17:05
yvlthey'll probably need almost all of the functionality by the end of 2010, right?17:05
replaceafillhe also said they're having a meeting to define report requirements17:05
th1aWell, we absolutely will be shooting for having everything ready this year.17:06
yvl"The program should be finished by the end of the year and it should be tested and handed to the Department of Secondary Education by March 2011.17:06
th1aI need to be able to report something other than "we're working on it."17:06
replaceafilli think having feedback on the gradebook will speed things up17:06
th1aI mean, the only thing I'm *really* worried about is a last minute decision to use a different product.17:07
th1aWell, that and just never really getting a complete set of requirements.17:08
replaceafillth1a, to be honest, i was worried these past two weeks because of the same...17:08
yvlI'm also a bit worried about "logistics" of the reports17:08
th1aHm? Printers?17:08
yvlI'd be happier if I knew :)17:09
th1aOr within SchoolTool?17:09
yvlboth, actually17:09
th1aReport infrastructure within SchoolTool is probably the next internal plumbing project.17:09
th1aMaybe November/December.17:10
yvlyeah, that sounds likely17:10
aelknerlet's please make that a collaborative effort17:11
th1aWe'll try.17:11
aelkneri will be very interested in any design decisions as i have written many reports17:11
th1aI'll make yvl be more communicative.17:11
aelknerand the request mechanism for them is not what it could be17:11
th1aSince he won't be up to his neck in timetable cruft.17:12
aelkneryvl, we should schedule meetings to work together when you get to that project17:12
th1aWe will, when the time comes.17:12
yvlaelkner, if you have time and comments about what is incovenient with reports, please email17:13
aelknerjust let me know when you start to work on it17:13
th1aDon't worry, we'll be discussing it here.17:14
th1areplaceafill, How are things coming with the schools in El Salvador?17:14
replaceafillone school is almost ready to start using it, el calvario17:15
replaceafilli havent worked much in the other school, esaes17:15
replaceafillthe one with the journal thing...17:15
replaceafilland in the third school, la soledad, they have a burocratic mess because they recently changed the principal and other leaders17:16
th1aAh, that's a familiar story.17:16
replaceafillthey called me asking about the project, who was funding it, and a bunch of weird questions...17:16
th1aSo probably starting over from scratch there.17:16
replaceafilli was like "wtf?"17:16
th1aWho was your contact there before?17:17
replaceafillso i'll stick with the first 2 schools17:17
replaceafillthe old principal17:17
replaceafilli mean, the former principal17:17
replaceafillshe was a nice lady but had no idea about computers17:17
th1aIs there anything in particular left to do for El Calvario?17:17
replaceafillbut she bought the free software idea17:18
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replaceafillgradebook for 7-9 grades has different requirements17:18
replaceafilllike cambodia17:18
replaceafilldifferent layout of activities17:18
replaceafillbut it's at most 2 days of work i think17:18
replaceafilli have some report examples already17:18
th1aOK.  It seems like this might be a good time to do that.17:19
replaceafilli will do that17:19
replaceafillyvl, thanks for your reply to my i18n question (smile)17:20
th1areplaceafill will be using text emoticons following our discussion last Friday and my subsequent blog post:
yvlyou're welcome :)17:21
replaceafillth1a, see, one comment said 9/10 (wink)17:21
th1aOh, yvl, what's the status with krishnagiri?17:21
th1aI need to catch up with the email thread...17:22
yvlthey made a distribution with latest versions of packages instead of KGS17:22
yvla moment...17:23
replaceafillyvl, i notice plugin detection wasnt working right for them, correct?17:23
yvlhere's their latest status
replaceafillhe had the gradebook configure.zcml but the requirement package wasnt being activated17:23
yvlreplaceafill, yes17:24
yvlthanks for the help!17:24
yvlI told them to disable automatic plugin detection, because there had weird problems with that17:24
yvlmanual way seemed easier17:24
yvland it seems they actually were able to start the server, so it's a matter of packaging right versions17:25
yvland some "random problems" they seem to be having...17:25
th1aWell, we seem to have better communication going now, so we should be able to work through it.17:26
* yvl agrees17:27
th1aGetting people onto LP helps, instead of showing up here in the wrong timezone.17:27
th1aOK, thanks replaceafill.17:27
* replaceafill got fedora 13 just in case schooltool rmp's are ready soon...17:27
* yvl too ;)17:27
yvlbut they package for Fedore 9 I think17:27
replaceafillah damn!17:27
replaceafillyvl, btw, have you seen a date dropdown date widget17:28
th1aaelkner, I'm looking at your reports.17:28
replaceafillnot as older as
replaceafillyvl, but i'll ask later, in email17:28
th1aBut I guess we might as well discuss them on the phone.17:29
aelkneryvl, i tried changing the pageSize attribute in my pdf view this:17:29
aelknerpageSize = pagesizes.landscape(pagesizes.A4)17:29
replaceafillaelkner, btw i'm still playing with the gradebook, but i will report the extra credit-average bug so we dont forget17:29
th1aUnless you have some questions for yvl.17:30
aelkneras an override of the base class which is used by the rml macro17:30
aelknerbutit didn't cause the PDF to come up in landscape orientation17:30
aelknerit just caused the report to look bad, lots of leading space that i didn't ask for17:30
aelkneri was wondering if we need to add something to the macro for page orientation17:31
aelknerth1a, i can walk you through using the pdf as it is when we talk on the phone17:31
aelknerreplaceafill, thanks again for catching it17:32
yvlhmm, there was something... sorry, can't remember right away17:32
yvlif it's not too urgent, I can look at this tomorrow?17:33
aelknercould you look into it when you have the chance and perhaps post to the mailing list?17:33
aelknerth1a, i created the html version as a fallback17:33
aelknerand the pdf view classes subclass then17:34
aelknerso as to keep the code the same between the two17:34
th1aOK, we'll talk reports on the phone.17:34
* yvl likes that direction, aelkner :)17:34
th1aAlso, don't lose that Nigerian school census I re-sent to you last week.17:35
aelkneri won't lose it17:35
th1aNigeria has 150 million people in it.17:35
th1aLots of schools.17:35
th1aI was looking up some numbers when emailing Mark last week.17:36
th1aVirginia is a bit over half the population of Cambodia and Zambia.17:36
th1aAbout twice the size of El Salvador.17:37
th1aI brought this up in the context of scaling up.17:37
th1aAlso, I got an official Nokia data cable for my phone, and got it sending SMS's over USB from my laptop.17:38
th1aAlthough I think the problem was actually dirty contacts in the phone, not the original cable.17:38
th1aSo hopefully I can get my SchoolTool box demo running by the Maker Faire on Saturday.17:39
th1a(that's using Gnokii to talk to the phone, btw)17:39
th1aOK.  I think we're done here.17:40
yvlI was about to ask that :)17:40
yvl(about Gnokii)17:40
th1aHave a good week, gentlemen, and let's get those packages done!17:40
replaceafillthanks everybody17:40
aelknergreat week everyone17:40
yvlgreat week to you all17:41
th1aOh, I'm shooting for having Mark's server ready by the end of the day tomorrow.17:41
replaceafillgood to know17:41
replaceafillyvl, you applying the fck fix to trunk, correct?17:42
yvlnow that I think of it, tomorrow, and yes17:42
yvlI don't want to make hasty stupid bugs17:42
replaceafill(smile) CanDo being used in a sailing club (
replaceafillinteresting competency set17:47
th1aThat's someone in Virginia that Welsh knows.17:48
th1aI suspect.17:48
th1aUnless it is a different sailing school.17:48
th1aaelkner:  I'll call you in about 10 minutes.17:49
aelknerhome phone please17:49
yvlreplaceafill, aelkner18:03
yvlI'll be merging ST ported to new KGS tomorrow18:03
yvlto trunk18:03
yvlif any of your branches break for any reason, let me know18:03
replaceafillwill need to update eggs, right?18:03
replaceafillgot it18:04
replaceafillyvl, ztk?18:04
yvlof course, not notifying in advance is an exception, not a desired way to do things ;)18:04
yvlBlueBream beta 318:04
replaceafillyvl, does the ztk have a file like our versions.cfg?18:05
yvlof course :)18:05
yvlMark's demo18:06
yvlwe should probably use revisions / eggs before the KGS update18:06
yvlI'll pin version numbers in some branch18:06
yvlfor your convenience ;)18:06
replaceafillthank you very much (wink)18:07
yvlallright then18:07
yvlgood luck, guys :)18:08
* yvl wanders off 18:08
replaceafillcan anyone confirm that the fieldset in the Add new term view looks weird like this:18:29
replaceafillor is it just my browser?18:29
* replaceafill installs chromium...18:30
th1aYeah, I've seen that.18:32
replaceafill... chromium is the name of a game in debian ...18:35
replaceafillchromium-browser is what i need....18:36
replaceafillth1a, is it ok if i change the width of some forms to make them a bit wider?18:37
replaceafillnot too much18:37
th1aBear in mind that some of these decisions were made when we were still worrying about small CRD screens, 256 colors, (no javascript), etc.18:38
th1aThings which aren't really relevant anymore.18:38
th1aSo yes, we can change.18:38
replaceafillyes, form are kind of narrow18:38
th1aIn particular, insofar as they encourage/force us to make forms that are a stack of fields, when it would be better to have fields next to each other, that is a problem.18:43
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replaceafillah!! of course, this form width stuff gets funnier when you take into i18n into account...18:49
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replaceafillth1a, zyt?19:11
replaceafilli need advice19:11
replaceafillin CanDo we have a 'Gradebook' button and also the ST gradebook has one19:12
replaceafillsince they use the same menu and title19:12
replaceafillthe ST one overrides CanDo's19:12
replaceafillwe need to change a title19:12
th1aWhich button where seen by whom?19:12
replaceafillor change the way buttons are implemented19:12
replaceafillas seen by anyone19:13
replaceafillin the section view19:13
replaceafilli also hate how buttons get split across two rows...19:16
th1aThat whole thing needs to be fixed.19:16
th1aBut beyond that, are we talking about action buttons or the top row buttons.19:16
replaceafillno, action19:17
replaceafillgray ones19:17
replaceafillwell, everything is gray actually19:17
replaceafillnot the tabs19:17
replaceafillafter Assignments, you see Gradebook19:18
replaceafillthat's the button that collides in ST Gradebook and CanDo19:18
replaceafillCanDo's not shown19:18
replaceafillso i was thinking19:18
replaceafillshould we change CanDo's button title?19:18
replaceafillor the gradebook's19:18
replaceafillbut we should tell dwelsh and company, right?19:19
th1aWell, just call it CanDo Gradebook.19:19
replaceafillah cool19:19
th1aBut also, this isn't how teachers should be getting there anyhow, right?19:19
replaceafillyou mean, if they use the cando skin? right, they have a menu to get to the CanDo gradebook19:20
replaceafillgrade student competencies and all19:20
th1aOK, so it isn't a big deal.19:20
th1aDo we still have the problem where kids see two Gradebook tabs?19:20
replaceafillah, i haven't checked that19:21
replaceafillis  there a bug reported?19:21
th1aI don't really know.19:22
replaceafilli'll look19:22
th1aI don't necessarily stay on top of CanDo bugs.19:22
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replaceafillaelkner, yvl, ping22:23
replaceafilldoes anyone see a problem with creating a custom layer in the schooltool.gradebook package?22:24
replaceafilland put the gradebook views/resources there22:24
replaceafilli'm thinking if plugins should declare their own skins/layers in order to avoid resource clashes22:25
replaceafilllike the one between cando and the gradebook22:25
replaceafill(assuming that cando is a plugin (smile))22:25
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th1areplaceafill, You're allowed to use emoticons other than :|    ;-)22:41
replaceafillno man! explicitness!22:41
replaceafilli still feel bad for the past two years with you22:42
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replaceafillth1a, u around?23:59

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