IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2010-08-19

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th1aHi menesis.17:03
th1ahi replaceafill.17:18
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th1ahi menesis.17:26
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akshello everyone18:50
th1ahi aks.18:50
aksI've been trying to port schooltool for fedora/redhat based systems18:50
aksi've completed building RPMs for schooltool and it works well18:50
th1aOr are you someone else?18:51
aksth1a: krishnagiri is my subordinate and works with me, i'm looking after the R&D18:51
th1aThis is in Nepal?18:51
th1aAh, good.18:51
akseverything in schooltool works fine in Fedora except for the gradebook18:51
th1aI had lots of conversations with people in Nepal about two or three years ago.18:52
aksthen i compiled a few additional modules gradebook and its dependencies18:52
aksoh ok18:52
th1aWhich ran aground on the subject of the lunar calendar.18:52
aksbut trying to run schooltool with gradebook fails, might be i've been doing it the wrong way so wanted to know18:52
th1aAnd gradebook is not showing up?18:52
aksth1a: you might have talked to Pravin Raj Joshi for Nepal18:52
th1aThe name doesn't ring a bell but I'd have to go through my emails.18:53
th1a(and sort out whose name goes with which irc handle ;-) )18:53
aksth1a: nope, to enable gradebook, i added in instance_folder/school.zcml file <include package="schooltool.gradebook" />18:53
aksth1a: is that a right way?18:53
th1aThat is what I was going to suggest.18:54
th1aThat doesn't do it?18:54
aksth1a: it seems to enable gradebook, but then trying to start the instance fails18:54
th1aAh, is there an error in the paste log?18:54
aksth1a: because without that line of code, schooltool instance start well, but is just without gradebook feature18:55
aksth1a: as far as i remember, it shows an error with that it was not able to match/typecast the instance at a hex address18:55
aksth1a: I don't exactly remember the error now because i've been developing it at my office machine18:56
aksth1a: do you have any idea of that error?18:56
th1aWhy don't you look it up when you can and submit it as a bug.18:56
th1aI'm afraid that's out of my range.18:57
aksth1a: yeah, i was thinking of that, might do it tomorrow, but just thought of asking experts at the IRC channel if someone might have any idea on this18:57
th1aWell, some of our experts are on vacation or their day has ended in Lithuania.18:57
aksth1a: after I complete this configuration with gradebook and two other plugins, i'm planning to set up a fedora repository from where others can install it18:58
aksth1a: also that i'm planning to set up a blog where i'll explain the build system and how to port to Fedora/Redhat based systems18:58
th1aI think with the traceback we should be able to sort out your problem.18:58
th1aSo is this OLPC-related?18:58
aksth1a: yes, we are trying to pilot test schooltool for classroom management with few of our deployment schools18:59
th1aWhen would you be starting?18:59
aksth1a: as soon as i complete a successful build and integrate it to the server OS build18:59
th1aOK.  In case it isn't obvious from the other side of the planet, we are very interested in this.19:00
aksth1a: sure, I'll update you guys with how our pilot test goes on, and hope for the help19:01
th1aEnthusiasm doesn't necessarily transfer over IRC.19:01
th1aYes, and in particular PLEASE let us know what reports you need.19:01
aksth1a: ok cool19:01
aksth1a: I've not gone much through the schooltool website, but does schooltool have a good user guide?19:02
th1aSee http://book.schooltool.org19:02
th1aThere is more to write, but I think it is a pretty good start.19:02
aksth1a: because the first phase of the pilot test would begin with training the teachers of how to use it19:02
aksth1a: thanks19:03
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akswill you be around on IRC tomorrow during daytime (nepal time is +5:45 of GMT)19:04
aksth1a: ^^^?19:04
th1aAround this time?19:04
th1aBasically, yes.19:04
aksth1a: oh ok19:04
th1aBut the person you need to catch is in Lithuania.19:04
aksth1a: If I find yvl tomorrow morning, i'll ask him as well19:04
aksth1a: are you talking of yvl?19:05
th1ayvl is on vacation this week, so you want menesis.19:05
aksth1a: oh ok19:05
th1ayvl = lead developer;19:05
th1amenesis = package manager.19:05
aksth1a: and you from?19:05
aksth1a: oh i see19:05
th1aand release manager.19:05
th1aAnd I'm product manager, in the US, east coast (Providence, Rhode Island).19:05
th1aTom Hoffman, by the way.  ;-)19:06
aksth1a: oh ok, great to meet you19:06
aksth1a: I figured out your full name from the IRC WHOIS ;)19:06
th1aAlso, I'm only an hour's drive from OLPC HQ in Cambridge, so if we get this working for you, I can go up there and show it off.19:07
aksth1a: cool19:07
aksth1a: schooltool w/o gradebook is in working condition as of now19:07
aksth1a: and that we are also working on localizing string to Nepali language19:08
th1aYou should have had a lot already done, correct?19:09
th1aIt would be out of date.19:09
aksth1a: so at the first release, i'm expecting at least of a 85% localized and working with plugins schooltool instance19:09
aksth1a: we are in a process of doing that, and till now we have translated most of them, the rest is expected to be completed by the end of Aug, after which we'll rectify errors in translations19:10
th1aI'd guess the gradebook problem has a simple fix.19:11
aksth1a: hope so19:11
aksth1a: what about the other two plugins, one of which is the journal?19:12
aksth1a: the schooltool.lyceum.journal and schooltool.intervention, what are they useful for?19:12
th1aThe journal is essentially for attendance, also if you need to track grades that correspond to the day (participation, for example) rather than to an assignment.19:14
th1aIntervention is for goal setting and monitoring for students.19:15
aksth1a: I see19:15
th1aIntervention also focuses on communication between people who are responsible for a given student.19:15
aksth1a: ok, if you want to have a look at our RPM build system, you can have a look at our git repo at
aksth1a: it contains the RPM SPEC files and the sources that i've used for the build19:17
th1aYou're pulling us out of the Mark Shuttleworth empire.19:18
th1arpms, git...19:18
th1a(Mark funds SchoolTool, as well as (more or less) Ubuntu, Launchpad, bzr...19:19
th1aSo that has some influence on our choice of tools.  ;-)19:19
th1aWhat you should do is put this in a bug or an email to
th1aI'm afraid the technical details are lost on me.19:23
th1aIs there someplace I could install the actual RPM's?19:24
aksth1a: the rpms are not still upstream now19:26
aksth1a: let me know which version of fedora will you be installing it upon (i've them currently ready for f9 and f13)19:27
th1aWe'd be setting up a virtual machine for whatever you're using.19:27
th1aI don't keep spare Fedora boxes lying around.  ;-)19:28
aksth1a: ;), ok, i'll put the F13 RPMS tomorrow on http://dev.olenepal.org19:28
th1aBut if the answer turns out to be not obvious, we'll want to reproduce your setup.19:28
th1aActually, just wait until you get an initial response from menesis or yvl.19:28
aksth1a: ok, as you say19:29
aksth1a: well I gotta go now, had a nice time talking to you, see you tomorrow19:30
th1aGreat meeting you aks!19:30
aksth1a: will follow up with you tomorrow19:30
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replaceafillth1a, nice, schooltool in fedora (and probably in OLPCs!)21:46
th1ahi replaceafill.21:48
replaceafillhey th1a, sorry i didnt answer, we went out in the morning and i left my laptop on21:48
th1aNo problem.21:49
th1aAre you sending an email to Cambodia?21:50
replaceafillyes, with the dead line question21:50
replaceafillbut i'm looking through the docs i have21:50
replaceafilli remember i saw a date already21:50
replaceafillah yes, it's in their grant proposal21:52
replaceafilli'll start my mail from there21:52
th1aOK.  Maybe send me a draft before you send it to them.21:53
replaceafillah ok21:53
th1aI might have a small job for you.22:04
th1aI might as well give it to you.22:05
th1aA fun one!22:05
replaceafillsoy todo oidos... = i listen ;)22:05
th1aSo next Saturday I've committed myself to a little demo of SchoolToolBox w/SMS.22:06
th1aI don't know if you saw my blog post...22:06
th1aSo this is obviously going to be a "prototype" implementation.22:06
replaceafilla lot of devices in a single picture :D22:06
th1aProof of concept.22:06
th1aSomewhat bogus.22:07
th1aNot entirely though.22:07
th1aSo the premise is to demonstrate, say, the ministry of education querying the school for its current student enrollment.22:07
th1aSo my current theory is just to runn the gammu-smsd daemon:
th1aWhich you don't have to worry about.22:08
th1aBut it will check the phone for an incoming SMS and22:09
th1a"Executes a program after receiving message.22:10
th1aThis parameter is executed through shell, so you might need to escape some special characters and you can include any number of parameters. Additionally parameters with identifiers of received messages are appended to the command line. The identifiers depend on used service backend, typically it is ID of inserted row for database backends or file name for file based backends."22:10
th1aBut basically, gammu-smsd is going to run a script, which needs to get the total student enrollment in the SchoolTool instance.22:11
th1aSo basically, what I need from you is a view that returns that number.22:11
th1aUnless you have a better idea.22:11
replaceafilldo you need the view to spit some specific format?22:12
replaceafillor a full view?22:12
th1aI don't think so.22:12
th1aI think just an integer.22:12
replaceafillah ok22:12
th1aBecause then the script launched by gammu-smsd is just going to send a text message back that says "Enrollment: 823"22:12
th1aOr whatever.22:12
th1aAnd then I can have people query the server from their phones.22:13
th1aSee!  It works!22:13
th1aBut in this context (Maker Faire) it is more the idea of using phones in that way than the rigor of the implementation.22:13
th1aI don't think there's an existing way to get the number of students out of the system.22:15
replaceafillth1a, just sent you my draft email for cambodia22:16
replaceafilli dont think there is22:16
replaceafillyou can send parameters like: "get me total students for *2010*"22:16
th1aAh, good, thanks for reminding me that October is the next big date.22:16
th1aSend parameters how?22:17
th1aYes, the mail is fine.22:17
replaceafilli mean, suppose your insntance has 3 school years22:18
replaceafilland you have enrollment data for those 3 years22:18
th1aOH! yes.22:18
th1aLet's say it returns for the current year.22:18
replaceafillah ok22:19
th1aSo with RapidSMS's platform, iirc you have a somewhat standardized system for serializing data.22:19
th1aMaking API calls, whatever.22:19
th1aBut at this point, I'm just going to be trying to get the damn thing to work with my phone.22:20
th1aThat spreadsheet should be helpful.22:21
th1aAs long as they don't decide they could run the country off of Google Doc's.22:21
replaceafillcambodia email sent22:22
replaceafill"look, we can have the grades online with google"22:24
th1aOh, the other thing I was going to say is that I want to use a Cambodia version for the demo, since we have a lot of Cambodians here.22:24
th1areplaceafill, what does  : | mean to you?22:25
th1aI don't even know how to make that expression.22:25
replaceafillit's my "surprise" expression22:25
th1aI'm glad you told me that.22:25
replaceafillcolon + pipe22:25
th1aBecause that's not at all how I was interpreting it.22:25
th1aWhat about : O22:25
replaceafill:O = oh (less surprised)22:26
replaceafill:| = very surpised22:26
replaceafilli want to demo schooltool using the box = :O22:26
replaceafilli want to demo cambodia because of the people here.... = :|22:26
replaceafilli'll change to the text versions better22:27
replaceafilland wow22:27
replaceafillso, i can create a new branch from cambodia22:27
th1aSeriously though, every time you've done that over the past two years, I thought it was some kind of close-mouthed unhappy face.22:27
replaceafilland put that view there22:28
replaceafillsorry man, not at all22:28
th1aWell, I'm glad we straightened that one out.22:28
* replaceafill just realizes how character faces can confuse others22:28
* replaceafill will stop using them22:29
th1aI have no idea what the Japanese-style emoticons mean.22:29
th1aNo... just stop using that one.22:29
replaceafillok, :| banned from the list22:29
replaceafillso, should i create a sms_demo_branch?22:30
th1aI guess... for like, one new three line file.22:30
replaceafillyou can also apply a diff?22:31
replaceafillbut there's no great deal on creating the branch22:31
replaceafillyou will have to pull it anyway, right?22:31
replaceafillhey, (^_^)22:31
th1a( ´ ▽ ` )22:33
replaceafillthe others i don't see them right, i guess i need japanese fonts22:33
th1aI guess they have more symbols to play with.22:34
replaceafill(look i didnt used my banned face)22:35
replaceafillok, th1a, just to be clear i understood22:35
replaceafillyou branch sms_demo to the box22:35
replaceafillyou build.... etc22:36
replaceafillyou have schooltool running22:36
th1aMy script is going to query a URL.22:36
replaceafilland just get the number22:36
replaceafillgot it22:36
th1aI don't see any reason to, say, do XML-RPC.22:36
replaceafilli was thinking the same (smile)22:37
replaceafillmaybe too much22:37
th1aNot a big deal either way.22:37
replaceafillnow the question is how do i calculate the enrollment total...22:38
th1aStudent group total?22:38
replaceafillif this is cambodia, i can look at the student group22:38
th1aFor current year.22:38
replaceafillhow do we do it in core ST?22:39
replaceafilleverybody enrolled has to be in the student group?22:39
th1aWell, basically, yes.22:39
* replaceafill checks the learners view22:39
replaceafilli thought you could be on the system enrolled without being in the students group22:40
th1aYes, you can.22:41
th1aLet's not over-think my simple demo, though.22:41
replaceafillgot it22:41
th1aNumber of students.22:41
replaceafilljust wondering (wink)22:41
replaceafillok, branching cambodia22:42
th1aYou're allowed to wink.  ;-)22:42
replaceafillno, explicit is better than implicit (wink)22:42
th1aThe word "wink" is not more explicit than the picture of a wink.22:43
replaceafillis not?22:43
replaceafillth1a, you want a specific url?22:45
replaceafillor http://server/total-enrollment22:45
th1aI'm not sure what the difference would be.22:47
replaceafillview context and stuff, but if you just want the active school year, we can get them from anywhere22:47
replaceafillok, cambodia branched22:48
replaceafillcome on!22:50
th1aI'm not saying you're wrong.22:50
th1aI thought it was funny.22:51
replaceafilli allow you make me look like a dumb22:51
th1aIf you think it makes you look dumb I'll take it down.22:51
th1aI didn't think that at all.22:51
replaceafillno man, it's ok22:51
replaceafillbtw, you will have to check out schooltool trunk too, cambodia doenst work with the current eggs, because of the levels22:52
th1aNow I'm complicating things.22:53
replaceafilli like this one: ¬¬22:53
replaceafilllike (oh no)22:54
th1aOK, so if I follow the standard sandbox instructions, what do I need to add?22:54
replaceafilli can write a little bash script if you want22:56
replaceafilljust like $ sh get_cambodia.sh22:56
th1aYes, please.22:56
th1aEasier than explaining.22:56
replaceafillyou have shared eggs in the box already, correct?22:57
th1aUh... I'd rather not make that assumption.22:59
replaceafillview works22:59
th1aBasically I don't want them going on the built in flash drive, which is small.23:00
replaceafillyou're putting the "Enrollment:" part in the output, right?23:02
replaceafillyou dont need the view to spit that23:02
replaceafillwriting setup script23:02
th1aJust the number is fine.23:03
replaceafillin case your demo'ing security23:04
th1aMake it public.23:04
th1aI don't need any added complexity.23:04
th1aThanks replaceafill!23:09
* th1a goes to make dinnner.23:09
replaceafillok, i'll send you an email23:09
replaceafillit seems like i've used :| a lot in the past two years:|23:18
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