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| th1a | hi replaceafill. | 16:30 |
|---|---|---|
| yvl | morning guys | 16:30 |
| replaceafill | good morning/afternoon th1a yvl | 16:30 |
| replaceafill | th1a, after talking about "progress to the next year", i'd like to ask you about the gradebook please | 16:31 |
| th1a | Sure. | 16:33 |
| th1a | Why don't you start with your thinking now about progression. | 16:33 |
| replaceafill | ok | 16:33 |
| replaceafill | my first doubt is, should this be done on a "class" level or on a "student" level | 16:34 |
| replaceafill | i mean, going to a student and move him to the next year | 16:35 |
| th1a | This is a bulk operation. | 16:35 |
| yvl | I'd say - per level | 16:35 |
| replaceafill | class by class or all classes at the same tiem? | 16:35 |
| yvl | i.e. bulk: all students in all classes at level 4 in last year | 16:35 |
| th1a | Well, let's leave out actual promotion of students to the next level at this point. | 16:36 |
| th1a | That's a more nuanced question. | 16:36 |
| replaceafill | yvl, i was thinking | 16:36 |
| th1a | (I mean, we can discuss it in a few minutes) | 16:36 |
| replaceafill | supposse you list all the students in the same level | 16:36 |
| replaceafill | 4 grade for instance | 16:36 |
| replaceafill | you can have 4a, 4b and 4c | 16:36 |
| replaceafill | right? | 16:37 |
| yvl | right | 16:37 |
| th1a | Or perhaps we'll just discuss it now. :-P | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | here in el salvador, usually the student moves from 4a to 5a | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | but sometimes he moves from 4a to 5b | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | and then, if we do it at the "level" level (!!!), how do we control that? | 16:38 |
| yvl | student belongs to a level indirectly in the Cambodia branch | 16:38 |
| yvl | being a member of a group that is linked to a level | 16:39 |
| yvl | means being in that level | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | yes | 16:39 |
| yvl | so you can collect all groups at level 4 | 16:39 |
| yvl | list all their members | 16:39 |
| th1a | Don't get it into your head that there is a magical way of doing this. | 16:39 |
| yvl | then there's another school year | 16:40 |
| th1a | If people need to be moved between groups, then either people need to import new groups or manually move them. | 16:40 |
| yvl | which should have levels and groups(empty) set up at this point | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | you assign them to the next year group? | 16:40 |
| yvl | yes | 16:40 |
| yvl | the groups live per schoolyear | 16:40 |
| yvl | so do levels | 16:40 |
| yvl | you make a student member of both | 16:41 |
| yvl | 2009 / group 4a and 2010 / group 5a | 16:41 |
| yvl | or 2009 / group 4a and 2010 / group 4a if he did not "graduate" the level | 16:41 |
| yvl | or "2009 / group 4a and 2010 / group 5b" | 16:41 |
| yvl | that's the intended design in Cambodia branch | 16:42 |
| yvl | (not in generic ST, by the way) | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | yes, i was thinking "it's just a matter of moving a person from one group in a schoolyear to a group in another school year" | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | not move | 16:43 |
| yvl | yes :) | 16:43 |
| replaceafill | make member | 16:43 |
| yvl | this way you retain historical information | 16:43 |
| yvl | of course this will cause performance issues pretty soon | 16:43 |
| yvl | but that's another thing, I'll be dealing at ST core with this | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | why? too many objects created? | 16:44 |
| yvl | relationships are slow | 16:44 |
| yvl | need to make them faster :) | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | ah | 16:44 |
| yvl | it's not that impossible ;) | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | every time we assign someone to a group, we create a relationship object, correct? | 16:45 |
| yvl | yes | 16:45 |
| yvl | my timeline could look like this: timetables, relationships | 16:45 |
| yvl | or timetables, relationships, more timetables | 16:46 |
| yvl | so don't worry about performance now | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | i was thinking of other things that don't move with the school year, like demographics or contacts | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | they have to stay the same, right? | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | i mean, in a global way | 16:46 |
| yvl | yes | 16:47 |
| yvl | there's little point of chaging your ethnicity per-schoolyear :) | 16:47 |
| th1a | You're not worrying about things not in school years. | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | yes | 16:48 |
| th1a | Really, the basic point here is that we don't want people to start with a completely blank new year. | 16:48 |
| th1a | We want to give them the option of starting by copying the structure of the previous year. | 16:48 |
| th1a | That's step 1. | 16:48 |
| th1a | Step 2 is promoting students. | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | yvl, there's no way to know that after level 4 comes level 5, right? | 16:49 |
| yvl | you can guess that | 16:49 |
| yvl | if level '4' also exists in the new year | 16:49 |
| yvl | the next level in the levels container is the, well, next one | 16:50 |
| yvl | (it's an ordered container) | 16:50 |
| replaceafill | its ordered | 16:50 |
| replaceafill | yes | 16:50 |
| th1a | Don't delude yourself about how easy some of this can be. | 16:50 |
| th1a | If you've got a school with 1200 kids who have to be completely reshuffled into new groups, and you're doing that within SchoolTool, it is going to take a long time. | 16:50 |
| th1a | It is going to take a long time no matter what. | 16:51 |
| replaceafill | long time == several steps? | 16:51 |
| yvl | yes | 16:51 |
| yvl | we just need to make the common case easy | 16:51 |
| th1a | That is something that anyone would expect to take at least a day. | 16:51 |
| th1a | Sometimes in SchoolTool you have to remind yourself that you're not writing an online shop or something. | 16:52 |
| th1a | Some tasks are really complicated and will take a long time. | 16:52 |
| th1a | If the user wants to do something particularly complicated, that is. | 16:53 |
| yvl | by the way, you might want to start with registering a link under manage "set up the school for the next year" | 16:54 |
| yvl | just with a decent name | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | yvl, in cambodia, when you create a school year, you get only a term created automatically ,right? | 16:54 |
| th1a | But the main thing is that if, say, 80% of the students stay in the same groups, we want them to be able to start with last year's groups so they only have to switch 20% rather than starting from 0. | 16:54 |
| yvl | replaceafill - yes | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | no courses, levels or classes | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | well, they dont see courses actually | 16:55 |
| yvl | currently courses, levels and classes are created automatically for demo purposes | 16:55 |
| th1a | Does it make more sense to put a "Import from previous year" action within the new year? | 16:55 |
| yvl | it should be done somehow differently | 16:55 |
| yvl | I'd say, a view "Configure next school year" | 16:56 |
| yvl | which first makes you actually create the school year | 16:56 |
| yvl | then makes you review copied levels | 16:56 |
| yvl | allows to import courses | 16:56 |
| yvl | and transfer students | 16:56 |
| replaceafill | wizard style? | 16:57 |
| yvl | not sure about school year activation | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | i mean, several steps | 16:57 |
| yvl | (and unactivation) | 16:57 |
| yvl | more of a "checklist style" | 16:57 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:57 |
| th1a | More a checklist. | 16:57 |
| th1a | Or just a list of things. | 16:57 |
| yvl | [ ] Create the new year | 16:57 |
| yvl | [ ] Set school timetables or something | 16:57 |
| yvl | and so on | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | ah | 16:57 |
| th1a | [ ] Use timetables from [2008] [2009] | 16:58 |
| th1a | [ ] Use courses from [2008] [2009] | 16:58 |
| th1a | [ ] Use groups from... | 16:59 |
| th1a | [ ] Populate groups from... | 16:59 |
| th1a | That's how I'm seeing it. | 16:59 |
| yvl | ok, my go: ;) | 16:59 |
| replaceafill | :) | 16:59 |
| yvl | [ ] define start/end of schoolyear 2010 | 17:00 |
| yvl | [ ] set schooldays for 2010 | 17:00 |
| yvl | [ ] Import courses mandated by ministry | 17:00 |
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| yvl | [ ] Define classes (they will be automatically copied from last year at this point) | 17:01 |
| yvl | (and define classes should help you manage both levels and groups, if needed) | 17:01 |
| yvl | [ ] Transfer students to 2010 | 17:02 |
| yvl | titles could be better of course | 17:02 |
| yvl | but you get the idea | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:03 |
| yvl | I'd restrain importing from anywhere else than a previous year | 17:03 |
| yvl | maybe it's worth even making this a checklist | 17:03 |
| th1a | It is probably simpler. | 17:03 |
| yvl | and only allow activation of the next year once all items are checked | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | ah | 17:04 |
| th1a | Remember that activation will often lag initial creation by months. | 17:04 |
| yvl | (some of them just could be, you know, buttons pressed by school manager or somebody) | 17:04 |
| th1a | If not years. | 17:04 |
| yvl | (I reviewed and approve) | 17:04 |
| * replaceafill writing things down | 17:05 | |
| yvl | well, in Cambodia case, the time can be shortened by appropriate documentation :) | 17:05 |
| yvl | don't set up the next year until the current school year is ended | 17:06 |
| yvl | or something | 17:06 |
| th1a | replaceafill: I actually want you to be primarily approaching this from the point of view of the general SchoolTool implementation. | 17:06 |
| th1a | Cambodia should not require a significantly different version. | 17:06 |
| yvl | th1a, we will not be able to reuse this logic | 17:07 |
| yvl | at least directly | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | th1a, assuming core has levels and behave the same as cambodia? | 17:07 |
| th1a | replaceafill: yes. | 17:07 |
| th1a | I'm not seeing what is unique about this case. | 17:07 |
| yvl | replaceafill: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~justas-pov/schooltool/levels | 17:07 |
| yvl | well | 17:07 |
| yvl | it's a special case | 17:08 |
| yvl | it's not general | 17:08 |
| th1a | Which aspect? | 17:08 |
| yvl | ok, I'm really bad at communicating through IRC | 17:08 |
| yvl | I'm actually agreeing with you :) | 17:08 |
| replaceafill | :D | 17:09 |
| yvl | just saying that moving that to ST core would be quite hard | 17:09 |
| th1a | I don't understand why. | 17:09 |
| yvl | but as we don't want to support any elaborate code for years | 17:09 |
| yvl | there are assumptions | 17:09 |
| replaceafill | in my head it's the use of groups that's special | 17:09 |
| yvl | that allow us to make user interface easy | 17:10 |
| yvl | yes | 17:10 |
| th1a | That's a small slice of it to me though. | 17:10 |
| yvl | ok, let's put it this way | 17:11 |
| yvl | I get the your idea, th1a | 17:11 |
| th1a | You mean because of the way group assignments are hardwired to section enrollments? | 17:11 |
| yvl | and I like it | 17:11 |
| yvl | (yes, that's what I meant) | 17:11 |
| replaceafill | th1a, yes | 17:11 |
| th1a | But shouldn't that take care of itself. | 17:11 |
| th1a | ? | 17:11 |
| th1a | If you can move the courses, groups, etc. over. | 17:11 |
| yvl | you can't do the student transfer this way | 17:12 |
| yvl | umm | 17:12 |
| yvl | in the same way | 17:12 |
| yvl | you can't transfer students to a different level | 17:12 |
| yvl | when in Cambodia level is defined by a group that is linked to a level | 17:12 |
| yvl | and in ST it will be done differently | 17:12 |
| yvl | maybe at some point it will be done the same | 17:13 |
| yvl | (uh, and by hard I meant days / 1-2 weeks, not months) | 17:13 |
| th1a | I think that will be less of a problem than you do. | 17:13 |
| yvl | maybe I'm just cautious about getting your hopes up | 17:14 |
| th1a | But anyhow, I tried to start this conversation by NOT talking about promoting student levels. | 17:14 |
| yvl | ok | 17:15 |
| replaceafill | my bad | 17:15 |
| yvl | apologies | 17:15 |
| th1a | np | 17:15 |
| th1a | I'd rather get the straightforward parts working first. | 17:15 |
| replaceafill | is it possible to do it in cambodia first (with the assumptions) and the move it to core? | 17:16 |
| yvl | yes | 17:16 |
| yvl | in my vocabulary - reimplement | 17:16 |
| yvl | but that's just nitpicking | 17:16 |
| replaceafill | :) | 17:16 |
| yvl | and I should do less of that ;) | 17:16 |
| replaceafill | fancy :P | 17:16 |
| yvl | the beauty of working with grant projects is that they have clear requirements | 17:17 |
| yvl | so | 17:18 |
| th1a | I still think the Cambodia specific aspect is *very* narrow. | 17:18 |
| th1a | But that might be because you guys are focusing on the hard part and ignoring the easy parts. | 17:18 |
| th1a | This is 80% easy. | 17:19 |
| * yvl agrees | 17:19 | |
| yvl | the devil's in the details, at least for me... | 17:19 |
| th1a | Again -- the hard details should be resolved by explict, manual user input. | 17:19 |
| th1a | This is not a guessing game. | 17:19 |
| yvl | sorry, I meant implementation details | 17:20 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:20 |
| th1a | I'm just repeating myself for emphasis. ;-) | 17:20 |
| th1a | Step 1 is just getting rid of "Hey, didn't I enter exactly the same crap last year." | 17:21 |
| yvl | so, should we discuss the "set up new schoolyear" in more detail? | 17:22 |
| replaceafill | if you have time :) | 17:23 |
| yvl | (I guess we agree that this should be a single link in Manage, pointing to a checklist) | 17:23 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:23 |
| th1a | I'm a little dubious, but for no specific reason, so go ahead. | 17:23 |
| yvl | (the checklist is keeping in mind simple interfaces for Cambodia, it should be a list of links in generic ST) | 17:24 |
| th1a | ok | 17:25 |
| yvl | so, this list looks ok? | 17:26 |
| yvl | [ ] define start/end of schoolyear 2010 | 17:26 |
| yvl | [ ] set schooldays for 2010 | 17:26 |
| yvl | [ ] Import courses mandated by ministry | 17:26 |
| yvl | [ ] Define classes (they will be automatically copied from last year at this point) | 17:26 |
| yvl | [ ] Transfer students to 2010 | 17:26 |
| yvl | [Activate next year] | 17:26 |
| yvl | (just copied it from above) | 17:26 |
| replaceafill | i changed it to: [ ] define start/end of next school year | 17:26 |
| yvl | (and those are also links, by the way) | 17:27 |
| yvl | yes :) | 17:27 |
| yvl | hmm, now that I think about it | 17:27 |
| yvl | there's not much to talk about this :) | 17:27 |
| th1a | I don't understand what happens if I check "define start/end of schooyear..." | 17:28 |
| yvl | school year is created | 17:28 |
| replaceafill | i just have the question if [Activate next year] will do everything | 17:28 |
| th1a | But what is the start/end? | 17:28 |
| yvl | dates | 17:28 |
| replaceafill | first date last date | 17:28 |
| yvl | yes | 17:28 |
| replaceafill | first day, last day | 17:28 |
| th1a | Where do those come from? | 17:28 |
| yvl | entered manually | 17:29 |
| replaceafill | like when you create a school year | 17:29 |
| th1a | Where? Next to the check box? | 17:29 |
| yvl | no | 17:29 |
| replaceafill | new form | 17:29 |
| yvl | it brings you to "new schoolyear" form | 17:29 |
| th1a | The contents of which are determined by what I've checked? | 17:29 |
| yvl | it's another way of saying "now please create the shcool year object" | 17:29 |
| ignas | emm, question if I may | 17:29 |
| ignas | is it "you check checbox and it happens" | 17:29 |
| th1a | hi ignas. | 17:29 |
| yvl | no | 17:29 |
| ignas | or "you click link + perform action" checkbox checks | 17:29 |
| yvl | ok, it's not a checkbox | 17:30 |
| ignas | tada | 17:30 |
| ignas | th1a, hi | 17:30 |
| yvl | it's.... a string done | 17:30 |
| yvl | and a link | 17:30 |
| yvl | or a string TODO | 17:30 |
| yvl | or something along the lines | 17:30 |
| ignas | or an image | 17:30 |
| replaceafill | :) | 17:30 |
| yvl | yes | 17:30 |
| th1a | Ah. | 17:30 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:30 |
| ignas | that becomes a green checkmark | 17:30 |
| th1a | Gotcha. | 17:30 |
| replaceafill | red X for incomplete? | 17:30 |
| replaceafill | or not done | 17:30 |
| yvl | it's really the UI sugar | 17:31 |
| replaceafill | ok, sorry, go ahead | 17:31 |
| yvl | you are free do do whatever way you want ;) | 17:31 |
| yvl | define start/end brings to create school year form; once it's created it should bring to edit school year form | 17:31 |
| ignas | the real sugar is the code to detect whether some action has been completed | 17:31 |
| yvl | always - the next schoolyear after the active one | 17:31 |
| yvl | ignas, yes | 17:32 |
| yvl | and of course some links will be disabled for a while | 17:32 |
| yvl | you can't transfer students without having a new schoolyear, for example | 17:33 |
| yvl | replaceafill, can you quickly look through the list and check if you imagine the... | 17:33 |
| yvl | conditions under which the links are considered DONE? | 17:34 |
| replaceafill | set schooldays for next year -> is the term creation form without the term title, term start date and term end date, correct? | 17:34 |
| replaceafill | since we're creating just one term for the year | 17:35 |
| th1a | I'm a little unsure about this direction. | 17:35 |
| replaceafill | (assumption) | 17:35 |
| yvl | either this one: http://book.schooltool.org/htmlhelp/_images/term-daily.png | 17:36 |
| th1a | I think we're trying to hide too much for the sake of Cambodia. | 17:36 |
| yvl | or remove the item at all | 17:36 |
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| replaceafill | Import courses mandated by ministry? | 17:37 |
| replaceafill | these should bring the level where they're going, right? | 17:37 |
| yvl | yes | 17:37 |
| yvl | they sent us the spreadsheet | 17:38 |
| yvl | but they could fill that in in a more decent manner | 17:38 |
| replaceafill | th1a, is this part of "i entered that crap last year"? | 17:38 |
| replaceafill | i guess yvl is refering to course changes by the ministry | 17:39 |
| yvl | yes | 17:39 |
| yvl | th1a, from the coder's point of view, we're not hiding anything, all is already hidden | 17:40 |
| yvl | so we're just reintroducing stuff | 17:40 |
| yvl | it's a matter of which views you want to give access to and when | 17:40 |
| replaceafill | Define classes (aka groups) | 17:40 |
| th1a | What's the argument against just having them create a new year and select which things they want to bring over? | 17:41 |
| th1a | I don't think that is particularly complicated. | 17:41 |
| yvl | it's not :) | 17:41 |
| yvl | the question is how and when they should make adjustments | 17:42 |
| yvl | keeping courses / levels on a spreadsheet and import only | 17:42 |
| yvl | means no course add/edit forms and such (they don't have level dropdownbox at the moment, for example) | 17:42 |
| yvl | copying groups always makes sense in my opinion | 17:43 |
| yvl | so people should be able to delete them or add them in a new year | 17:43 |
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| yvl | and since classes are special, that's a custom view anyway | 17:43 |
| yvl | (and I'm sure they'll want a simple interface there) | 17:44 |
| yvl | student transfer is another custom thing | 17:44 |
| yvl | as they're not transfered to a level | 17:44 |
| yvl | they are transfered to a class | 17:44 |
| th1a | I'm feeling like trying to do this for Cambodia first is a very bad idea. | 17:44 |
| th1a | Why don't we do it for SchoolTool first and then simplify THAT if necessary. | 17:45 |
| yvl | hmm | 17:45 |
| replaceafill | yvl, your new level branch uses groups the same way as cambodia does? | 17:46 |
| yvl | my immediate (not necessarily right) answer would be that making it sensible in ST is more difficult than a quick solution in Cambodia | 17:46 |
| yvl | it doesn't use groups at all | 17:46 |
| yvl | I'm really undecided about the whole "using groups for classes" thing | 17:47 |
| yvl | have some bad feelings about putting it to the generic case | 17:47 |
| replaceafill | again, that's the part where i get confused when separating the cambodia case from the core case (classes [groups]) | 17:47 |
| yvl | hmm, this discussion is taking a bit longer than I expected. | 17:49 |
| yvl | well, to put my position in short: | 17:50 |
| yvl | I have no idea how to do a generic year transfer in ST | 17:50 |
| yvl | I have no idea how to provide a good UI / group filters so that groups would be usable as classes and not useable as classes in generic ST | 17:51 |
| yvl | I need to deal with timetalbes, then performance issues at ST | 17:51 |
| yvl | thus I'd like to experiment on Cambodia branch | 17:51 |
| yvl | then unify where we can | 17:51 |
| yvl | and where it makes sense | 17:51 |
| yvl | customizing groups as classes is an expected case, so I'd think there will be no support problems later on | 17:52 |
| th1a | I'm completely unconcerned about the groups as classes issue. | 17:53 |
| yvl | ok | 17:53 |
| yvl | great | 17:53 |
| yvl | so.. | 17:53 |
| th1a | To me, that's just a small additional element to add for Cambodia. | 17:53 |
| yvl | yes | 17:53 |
| yvl | so, what should we do next? | 17:54 |
| yvl | "next school year set up"? in Cambodia? in generic ST? | 17:54 |
| yvl | is the checklist ok? | 17:54 |
| th1a | I'm feeling like that's marching us in the wrong direction. | 17:55 |
| th1a | This can just be another import method. | 17:55 |
| th1a | Import from last year. | 17:55 |
| yvl | (by the way, is it ok if I run off soon?) | 17:56 |
| th1a | You're excused, yvl. ;-) Thanks. | 17:56 |
| yvl | yes, that could be also done that way | 17:56 |
| replaceafill | thanks yvl | 17:56 |
| th1a | I guess I confused the issue by mostly hanging it on the bug as Javier described it. | 17:56 |
| th1a | I only considered that a placeholder, really. | 17:56 |
| yvl | from the coder's perspective there's not much of a difference on how you do that | 17:57 |
| yvl | it's more of a usability issue | 17:57 |
| yvl | I'd expect roughly similar amounts of code | 17:57 |
| yvl | if you import most of the things | 17:58 |
| yvl | from a previous year | 17:58 |
| yvl | and give views/links to do that | 17:58 |
| yvl | or you import automatically and give views/links to edit that | 17:58 |
| Lumiere | imo automatically is never good | 17:58 |
| yvl | in Cambodia case, most of the code I'd expect to be in customization | 17:58 |
| th1a | I guess I'm more comfortable doing the bare "ok, you kind of have to understand the data model" implementation *first*. | 17:59 |
| yvl | well, sometimes it is | 17:59 |
| Lumiere | yvl: automated is good, automatically is not :) | 17:59 |
| yvl | Lumiere, if your school teaches levels 1-12 its better to copy automatically then modify | 17:59 |
| yvl | than to re-enter | 17:59 |
| yvl | olk | 17:59 |
| Lumiere | yvl: but you don't want it to happen automatically ;) | 17:59 |
| Lumiere | you want to tell it to start the process | 18:00 |
| Lumiere | (it's something to just be careful about in describing it) | 18:00 |
| yvl | th1a, just one thing | 18:00 |
| yvl | in my opinion | 18:00 |
| yvl | doing the "you have to understand the data model first" and doing the plumbing | 18:00 |
| yvl | is roughly the same effort as doing a "guided " view | 18:01 |
| th1a | Well... the guided view would take much more planning time. | 18:02 |
| yvl | again - I'm sure that it'll end up with roughly the same time | 18:03 |
| yvl | there's just too little to plan about | 18:03 |
| yvl | it's a view with four links | 18:03 |
| yvl | and four functions if you want them to be marked as done | 18:03 |
| yvl | apologies that I did not bring mockups today :| | 18:04 |
| yvl | it just looks very simple to me, for some reason :| | 18:05 |
| th1a | Another thing to keep in mind is that generally the people doing this will have used SchoolTool for a year. | 18:05 |
| yvl | ah! | 18:05 |
| yvl | your'e pulling this towards the common case | 18:06 |
| yvl | I see then | 18:06 |
| yvl | ok, sorry but gotta go | 18:07 |
| th1a | Thanks yvl. | 18:07 |
| th1a | OK replaceafill, what do you think? | 18:11 |
| replaceafill | i'm trying to find a way of not using groups as classes in the generic ST | 18:11 |
| replaceafill | i was thinking of copying enrollments or something | 18:12 |
| replaceafill | from your checklist what i get is that you basically want what we currently do with courses in generic ST | 18:13 |
| replaceafill | when you create a new school year | 18:13 |
| th1a | replaceafill: I am not thinking about groups as classes at all right now. | 18:13 |
| replaceafill | all courses from the previous year are copied | 18:13 |
| th1a | I am completely unconcerned with that aspect. | 18:13 |
| th1a | Are all courses copied from the previous year now? | 18:13 |
| replaceafill | yes | 18:14 |
| replaceafill | (i think so) | 18:14 |
| replaceafill | let me check | 18:14 |
| replaceafill | class InitCoursesForNewSchoolYear | 18:16 |
| replaceafill | yes | 18:16 |
| replaceafill | if active_schoolyear is not None: | 18:16 |
| replaceafill | self.copyAllCourses(ICourseContainer(active_schoolyear), | 18:16 |
| replaceafill | ICourseContainer(self.object)) | 18:16 |
| replaceafill | when you create a new school year, all the courses from the active school year are copied | 18:16 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:17 |
| th1a | That should actually be optional, along with other objects. | 18:17 |
| replaceafill | th1a, in your checklist: | 18:20 |
| replaceafill | [ ] Use courses from [2008] [2009] | 18:20 |
| replaceafill | would bring also the sections? | 18:20 |
| replaceafill | or should we put a different step for that | 18:21 |
| * replaceafill now understands the "let's leave out actual promotion of students to the next level at this point." words... | 18:22 | |
| th1a | Sorry, got pulled away to make lunch. | 18:30 |
| replaceafill | :) | 18:30 |
| replaceafill | np | 18:30 |
| th1a | Sections are more complicated. | 18:31 |
| th1a | It seems like you might want to: | 18:31 |
| th1a | 1) create the same number of sections per course; | 18:32 |
| th1a | 2) assign the same teachers to them; | 18:32 |
| th1a | 3) assign them the same schedule. | 18:32 |
| th1a | Or some combination of 2 and 3. | 18:33 |
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| replaceafill | wow, timetables seem complex... | 19:26 |
| th1a | lol | 19:34 |
| replaceafill | :) | 19:34 |
| replaceafill | th1a, can you check the UI bullet in the google doc i just sent you? | 19:40 |
| th1a | That's looking goodish. | 19:45 |
| th1a | One dependency relationship is that you can't schedule sections if you haven't imported timetable schemas. | 19:45 |
| replaceafill | ah | 19:45 |
| replaceafill | yes, i'm not sure how schedules are done yet | 19:46 |
| replaceafill | i mean, timetable schema to section relationships | 19:46 |
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| replaceafill | damn! sections span across terms, which term are the sections spanning to? | 20:02 |
| th1a | Yeah, you have a dependency tree. | 20:03 |
| th1a | See easy! Just like I said. ;-) | 20:04 |
| replaceafill | :| | 20:04 |
| replaceafill | i see Courses, Timetable schemas and Groups (with memberships) easy | 20:04 |
| replaceafill | the promoting part (levels, enrollment) is the one where i'm lost | 20:04 |
| th1a | Well, as we think it through the hard parts may just be too hard. | 20:05 |
| th1a | (in the general case) | 20:06 |
| th1a | Terms are hard to "import" because the start/end dates will necessarily be different. | 20:06 |
| replaceafill | yes | 20:06 |
| th1a | So... right. If we can't do that, we can't really do sections. | 20:06 |
| th1a | I wasn't really thinking that we'd do sections, tbh. | 20:07 |
| replaceafill | but as i see it, without sections, you dont have enrollment, and you dont have promotion :( | 20:07 |
| replaceafill | maybe this import stuff should be a separate task than promoting students | 20:08 |
| th1a | Isn't that how I started the conversation this morning? ;-) | 20:08 |
| replaceafill | :D | 20:08 |
| replaceafill | i saw that like 9 hours later ;) | 20:08 |
| th1a | After talking through it, perhaps there are just a couple really simple, obvious things to add to core. | 20:09 |
| replaceafill | so th1a, should i go for part 1 in the general case with courses, timetable schemas and groups (with memberships) | 20:09 |
| th1a | Explicitly moving courses, group definitions, a couple other things over. | 20:09 |
| th1a | Yes. | 20:09 |
| replaceafill | we should deactivate the automatic course creation, right? | 20:09 |
| th1a | Then really most of this is specific to Cambodia insofar as you can then assume 1 term, etc. | 20:09 |
| th1a | That's probably what yvl has been thinking about all along. | 20:10 |
| th1a | replaceafill: Yes, I'd say so. | 20:10 |
| replaceafill | what about default groups | 20:10 |
| th1a | Although if it is just a couple things, we might even just add these as options in the add year form. | 20:10 |
| th1a | So they don't have to find it later. | 20:10 |
| replaceafill | ah | 20:11 |
| th1a | We could have specific check boxes to bring across each built in group membership. | 20:11 |
| th1a | Or perhaps just give the option of moving all group memberships. | 20:12 |
| replaceafill | currently, when you create a schoolyear, the 5 default groups are automatically created and members are automatically copied | 20:19 |
| replaceafill | except students | 20:19 |
| replaceafill | if id in ["managers", "teachers", "clerks", "administrators"]: | 20:19 |
| replaceafill | self.copyMembers(group, new_group) | 20:19 |
| th1a | See, I didn't even remember that. | 20:24 |
| th1a | That's why it is good to make it explicit. | 20:24 |
| replaceafill | see the google doc UI v2 | 20:24 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 20:26 |
| th1a | I think we're getting it. | 20:26 |
| replaceafill | i'll work on that form then | 20:28 |
| th1a | OK. | 20:30 |
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| replaceafill | msttcorefonts is in multiverse in lucid :O | 22:41 |
| th1a | Hrm. Is that because it has been replaced by other ttfonts? | 22:47 |
| * th1a suspects. | 22:47 | |
| replaceafill | i thought it's because it's not free | 22:47 |
| th1a | Oh... well, was it always in multiverse? | 22:48 |
| th1a | I forget. | 22:48 |
| replaceafill | i remember installing it from universe in jelkner's box | 22:48 |
| replaceafill | but it was karmic | 22:48 |
| th1a | http://code.google.com/apis/webfonts/ | 22:48 |
| replaceafill | "The fonts in the directory are all released under open source licenses;"!!! | 22:50 |
| replaceafill | wow | 22:50 |
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| Lumiere | replaceafill: it was always multiverse | 23:13 |
| replaceafill | ah | 23:13 |
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