IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2010-05-03

*** povbot has joined #schooltool01:20
*** powellc has quit IRC02:28
*** alga has quit IRC04:09
*** ignas has quit IRC04:15
*** alga has joined #schooltool09:26
*** ignas has joined #schooltool10:09
*** menesis has quit IRC10:52
*** menesis has joined #schooltool11:16
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool12:01
*** ignas has quit IRC12:24
*** ignas has joined #schooltool12:47
ignasyvl, yvl, - tagged import? it's an export bug ;)12:48
yvlwell it should be tagged import/export13:06
ignas yvl, seen mgedmin13:33
yvlnope, I'm @ home13:33
ignasyvl@home - a project searching for terrestrial intelligence :D13:34
*** alga has quit IRC14:01
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool15:04
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool15:59
*** th1a has joined #schooltool16:29
yvlmorning, th1a16:31
yvlhope you're feeling better?..16:31
th1aI'm at about 95%.16:31
th1aSo yes, thank you.16:32
* replaceafill has the flu...16:32
th1aWe are a sickly lot.16:32
* replaceafill spread it to her little daughter :(16:32
yvlIT... :)16:32
th1ahi yvl, replaceafill, aelkner, menesis, Lumiere.16:32
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon everybody16:33
th1aSo, no weekend bugs reported on 1.4 in Lucid.16:33
th1aGood work everyone, esp. menesis.16:33
th1aI'm not sure if I told the rest of the team that I'm meeting yvl and menesis at UDS next week.16:34
th1aWe'll be working on packaging politics, getting into Maverick, starting development releases, packages for pilot sites.16:36
th1aThose are my priorities.16:36
th1aWhat else yvl & menesis?16:36
yvlsmall amount of discussions about bigger features would be nice16:37
yvljust to get a rough outline of the timeline16:37
yvlthat will get messed up eventually, but still.16:37
yvl(the timeline, I mean)16:38
th1ayvl: Are you taking some time off this week?16:38
th1aOr after UDS?16:38
yvlafter UDS16:39
yvlI feel a bit more rested after a slow week two weeks ago16:39
menesishi. don't have a list of priorities16:40
menesisthis week will be preparing a list of tasks to talk and do16:40
th1aI definitely will want to spend some time next week working out what from Cambodia and replaceafill's enrollment statuses will go directly into the trunk and development packages.16:41
menesiswas busy last week with release, only now turning attention to the future16:41
th1amenesis:  Sure.16:41
th1aSo... we're entering a new era in SchoolTool development today.16:42
th1areplaceafill and aelkner are shifting to working with our pilot schools.16:43
th1areplaceafill > Cambodia & El Salvador.16:43
replaceafillth1a, enrollment statuses 80% (i have to index them)16:43
th1aaelkner > Mpelembe (Zambia), Shado Schools (Lagos, Nigeria), NIEPA (Nigeria).16:44
th1aaelkner is going to mostly start with Mpelembe, as they have their requirements pretty well together.16:44
th1aAnd are very responsive.16:44
th1aWe may start with importing their timetables generated by FET and exported as XML.16:45
th1aI got them to try FET and apparently it has worked really well for them.16:45
yvlI'm really happy with the whole "integrating with other free software" thing16:46
th1aShado Schools should be pretty straightforward in terms of requirements gathering, because they're actually migrating from another open source sis (FocusSIS).16:46
th1aSo they at least know what their requirements are.16:46
th1aThe NIEPA relationship is more open ended, as it is a school administration program rather than a school, so the next step there really is pinning down what schools will be the actual pilots there.16:47
th1aThe payoff of making that work is having them train administrators all over the country to use SchoolTool.16:48
th1aBut that will get rolling more slowly.16:48
th1aaelkner:  I'm planning on sending a long introductory email to the schools working with you.16:49
th1aToday, hopefully.16:49
aelknerwhat about the phipippines?16:49
th1aSo perhaps you can follow that with just a short, enthusiastic introduction.16:49
th1aThey're not technically part of this program -- we'll squeeze it in.16:49
th1aDid you read their reply to my email?16:49
aelkneri did16:50
aelkneri see they liked the idea of getting an xls from us16:50
th1aSo that should be fairly simple.16:50
aelknerso i wrote it16:50
aelknerif you have the chance today, you could check out the package16:51
th1aAll right.  Excellent.16:51
aelknerif you branch that and make, make run16:51
th1aSo you can focus on Mpelembe starting today?16:51
replaceafillaelkner, your branch says " This branch has not been scanned yet. "?16:51
aelkneri pushed it about five hours ago, so maybe it's not scanned yet16:52
aelknerthat's wat Launchpad does to new branches16:53
yvlI'd speculate there's a glitch in LP16:53
aelknerth1a: that shouldn't matter to you16:53
aelknercan you branch it?16:53
aelkneryvl: the tests don't pass yet as it still has some cambodia assumptions16:54
aelknerbut i wanted to get seomthing to th1a for screencast purposes16:54
th1aaelkner:  That's fine.16:55
yvlaelkner, something glitched in LP16:55
yvlI checked out the branch16:55
yvlbut everything under src/schooltool/ is empty16:55
th1aI think it is a glitch in the Matrix.16:55
aelknerdeja vu16:56
aelknerth1a: i can focus on Mpelembe today otherwise16:57
th1aaelkner:  Why don't you start with the FET XML then.16:57
yvllast revision is 40, contents of revision - most of the actual source removed16:57
aelkneri got it16:58
aelknersilly me, i didn't add the new directory16:58
yvlhappens to all of us... really ;)16:59
th1aaelkner:  There is, of course, lots of documentation on the FET website.16:59
th1aAlso, the main developer is very responsive.17:00
aelknercan you try again please?17:00
th1aAnd the mailing list is low traffic but very responsive.17:00
th1aSo don't bang your head for hours and hours.17:00
aelknerbut it feels so good17:01
aelknerespecially when i stop...17:01
th1aI don't like paying for it though.17:02
yvlaelkner, code seems to be in place17:03
th1aThanks, aelkner.17:03
replaceafilllast week i added the validators to not allow non-ascii usernames17:03
replaceafilland i worked on enrollment statuses before getting sick17:04
replaceafilli've been thinking also about the "advance to next year" feature, but i haven't put it on words yet17:04
th1aAre you ready to work now?17:04
replaceafilli will this week for sure17:05
replaceafillyes, my throat hurts but i can work17:05
replaceafillon the salvadorean pilot17:05
replaceafillone of the schools sent me one of their spreadsheets with the way they grade17:05
replaceafillit's kind of confusing, but i'll ask questions to them17:06
replaceafillthey grade 3 aspects in order to get a grade17:07
replaceafilla monthly grade17:07
replaceafillth1a, can i share the google doc with u?17:07
replaceafilleven it is in spanish, you can see the columsn17:07
replaceafillth1a, we will be working with development instances, right?17:08
replaceafilli mean bzr check out17:09
yvlreplaceafill, I'd suggest - no17:09
replaceafillah ok17:09
yvlassume you will have only what's released on Lucid17:09
th1athat's why we need development packages soon.17:10
yvlI'm 50/50 where to pin the grant development17:10
yvlto stable or to dev17:11
yvlwe'll sort it out at UDS maybe...17:11
th1areplaceafill:  Actually, you may be able to sys admin the El Salvador deployments more than the others.17:11
replaceafillth1a, well, we have a VM given to us by sugarlabs17:11
th1aThey'll be deploying before Maverick comes out, and they'll need some substantial changes in core.17:11
th1areplaceafill:  It is up to you then.17:12
replaceafilli just wanted to know the procedure we will follow17:12
replaceafillto do things the right way :)17:12
replaceafillnot "our" way...17:12
aelknerreplaceafill: schooltool.cambodia is the model, isnt it?17:12
replaceafillaelkner, definetily17:13
aelknerthe rest of the packages come down as eggs17:13
yvlusually, I'd prefer developing on "stable" APIs so that those working with trunk can change API, change UI, etc.17:13
yvlwithout causing havoc on grant instances17:13
th1aJust to be clear, the other pilots are doing their own sys admining, and MUST use debs.17:13
th1aWe are not going to be responsible for straightening out the eggs of a school in Cambodia.17:14
replaceafillth1a, i thought you're linode idea was to run the cambodia pilot...17:14
replaceafilli was wrong then17:14
th1aNo... that's just so they have something to look at.17:14
replaceafillgot it17:15
th1aWe're not doing hosting for this.17:15
replaceafillth1a, one last thing for the ES pilot17:16
th1aI mean, we basically got the Cambodia project because OpenAdmin doesn't have OS packages.17:16
th1aIt is essential.17:16
replaceafillah understand17:16
replaceafillth1a, we have this IT guy in one of the schools that is willing to adjust translations for Salvadorean spanish17:17
replaceafillhe's also willing to translate the book!17:17
replaceafillso, i'm sorry if i'm bitching too much about this issue17:17
replaceafillbut could we have a es_SV template for the projects17:17
replaceafillclosed ones if it's possible17:18
th1aWhat needs to be done?17:18
th1areplaceafill:  Didn't I name you Vice President for Internationalization?17:19
replaceafillyes, you did! :) can i go on with this?17:19
th1aDo whatever you need to do and tell me to do whatever I need to do.17:20
th1aDo you need some kind of permissions on LP?17:20
replaceafillth1a, ok17:20
replaceafilldont know yet :( will have to check LP docs17:21
th1ayvl & menesis:  We should probably talk about managing translations some at UDS, since we'll be able to buttonhole LP devs.17:21
yvlyou'll also need to initialize the templates in schooltool, gradebook, etc. trunks17:21
yvl$ msginit --locale=en --input=schooltool.mypackage.pot17:21
yvl$ msginit --locale=es.SV --input=schooltool.pot17:22
yvl(the latter one)17:22
replaceafilli wonder if we're going to need a translation group (or team) for salvadorean guys17:22
th1aThey really don't seem to want you to use any teams other than the main (Ubuntu?) one.17:23
menesisyou simply start translating I would think17:23
menesisbut there's no such language as Spanish (Salvador)17:23
menesisI cannot add one either17:24
th1aNo such language where?17:24
th1aIn your browser or LP?17:24
menesisin "Preferred languages" in my "Language preferences"17:24
th1aIn LP.17:25
replaceafillmenesis, do you have Spanish (El Salvador)17:25
th1areplaceafill:  Can you set Spanish (El Salvador) in your browser preferences?17:25
th1aAt all?17:25
replaceafillth1a, yes17:25
replaceafillat least in mine :)17:25
replaceafillin iceweasel (firefox) is coded as "es-sv"17:26
* yvl can see that too17:26
replaceafillth1a, i'll check the docs and find out17:27
menesisand start translating17:27
menesisof course I would start by uploading a Spanish translation and only changing differences17:28
th1aSo that's in the code but not actually translatable through the LP web interface?17:28
replaceafillit's not in the code, but is available in LP17:29
menesisit is translatable, but there is no link17:29
yvlI initialized the template17:29
yvlcan I commit to trunk?17:29
yvlwhat to you think?17:29
* th1a will just take your word for it.17:29
aelknerth1a: regarding david ally's note about cando17:30
th1aaelkner:  Oh, right, forgot to mention that.17:30
th1aYes, he wants to use CanDo.17:30
aelkneri believe it isn't possible to install cando side-by-side with another custom package17:30
replaceafillmenesis: wtf! says "Creator Douglas..."17:31
aelknercando is it's own custom package17:31
th1aIsn't *currently* possible?17:31
aelknerit's still an outstanding cando project to make it plugaable17:31
replaceafilljelkner is using cando + other stuff17:31
aelknerhe's not running two custom packages17:32
th1aI think aelkner is being overly pessimistic.17:32
replaceafill+1 on making cando a plugin :P17:32
menesisreplaceafill: I think you can start translating in Launchpad or upload your .po file there17:32
replaceafillmenesis, yes17:32
menesisyvl: no need to commit that17:32
aelknerth1a: pessimistic about what?17:32
th1aaelkner:  Remember all this stuff has to be installed from debs eventually.17:32
yvl(menesis, I was just curious if LP would pick it up)17:33
menesisaelkner: what you need to install side-by-side?17:33
th1aRight now it is just CanDo and the new SchoolTool.17:33
aelknerthe custom schooltool17:34
th1aIn the future, perhaps a custom package for NIEPA.17:34
aelkneri thought that was a certainty17:34
menesisyou should be able to install schooltool-cando (the server) and the new python-schooltool.* packages17:34
th1aWell, ideally SchoolTool will Just Work.  ;-)17:34
th1aIn the long run the model isn't that every school needs its own package.17:35
th1aWe don't *want* to make custom packages.17:36
yvlcrap.  "Launchpad has delays currently occurring with pulling and scanning branches due to new Maverick branches."17:36
menesislooks like I have changed the port for cando to 7090, you can even install schooltool-2009 and schooltool-cando side by side17:36
menesistell me if you need cando packages for lucid17:36
th1aI guess we do.17:37
replaceafilldwelsh would like that :)17:37
aelknerrunning schooltool on two different ports means two different Data.fs files, right?17:37
aelknertwo different instances17:38
menesisI have to check that cando works on schooltool 1.4... I guess I should simply update the trunk to use it anyway17:38
menesisand then package cando for lucid17:39
menesisaelkner: yes, two data.fs17:39
aelknerbut that's not what they would want17:40
menesisls /var/lib/schooltool/17:40
menesisthat's an instance name17:40
th1aYou don't *have to* run both.17:40
menesisyou only run cando17:40
menesisdon't install schooltool-2009 at all17:41
*** ignas has quit IRC17:41
menesisthe code is in python-schooltool package17:41
aelknerwhat code?17:41
yvlschooltool core17:41
yvlon which CanDo depends17:41
yvlschooltool-2009 and cando are separate "instance" packages (apps) that share common schooltool code17:42
th1aaelkner is going to have to learn how the debs work now.17:43
aelknerthis would represent a problem to those who want to use cando AND their own customizations17:43
menesisthose instance packages only contain configuration17:44
th1aIt will be OK aelkner.17:45
th1aOK, before we wrap this up...17:45
th1ayvl:  Did you get the email today from China?17:45
yvldidn't notice it17:46
th1aPerhaps you weren't cc:ed.17:46
yvlplease forward...17:46
th1aJust sort of a "what's up with flexible scheduling; are we just going to have to drop SchoolTool?" email.17:46
th1aI'll forward it.17:46
th1aDo you think we/you can/should explore their journal bug in the next couple days?17:47
yvlI've been exploring this and related stuff for about four days now17:47
yvlcalendaring + timetables + resources...17:48
yvlneed some changes17:48
menesiswhat journal bug?17:48
th1aActually, I'm not sure it is filed at this point.17:49
th1aBasically, if you make all your sections different lengths by changing the length of the term after you make each one, the journal seems to break.17:49
th1aWhich isn't surprising.17:49
menesisok.. there are only 4 bugs for journal and not this one17:51
th1aIt is a little vague.17:52
th1aProbably I should file something though.17:52
th1aAnyhow, yvl, do you see the email now?17:52
yvlmost of them are hiding under attendance tag, I think17:52
yvlI'll rummage through my mailbox17:53
menesisthere is a bug
yvlI thought that they did not give us access to their server yet17:53
menesislike they said a show-stopper feature they need17:53
replaceafillmenesis, and
th1aMost users put all bugs under SchoolTool.17:53
th1aOh... perhaps yvl missed some other emails too.17:54
th1ayvl: I think this might be a good time for you to reply directly.17:54
yvljust so you know...17:54
yvlI'll add a blueprint or something real soon now17:55
th1aAs far as I'm concerned, if you need a month to sort out this stuff, that's fine with me.17:55
yvlwhat a coincidence :D17:55
th1aThe pilots don't need anything pressing from you.17:55
yvlI'll do a blueprint now17:56
th1aAnd I'm pretty sure that Mpelembe will need more flexible scheduling anyhow.17:56
yvl(as in in ~2 days)17:56
yvlfocus on flexible timetables17:56
yvlI think they can be done rather fast actually17:56
th1aIn particular, it sounds like they just need to be able to handle things ending or starting unexpectely during the term.17:56
yvland journal fix also17:56
yvlok then17:57
th1aOK, so send them an email saying you're the lead developer and I've cleared you to work on this.17:57
th1aAnd you're starting to work on it.17:57
th1aAnd it will take a while.17:57
yvlif you happen to find an email with login details to their server or something17:57
yvlplease forward17:57
th1ajust a minute.17:57
th1aPlease blame me for not forwarding those.17:59
th1aI was imagining you were cc:ed.17:59
th1aIt is ok to give them the impression that they're talking to the right person now.  ;-)18:00
th1aAll right.18:00
th1aI think that's it.18:00
th1aOk, INVOICES.18:00
th1aI want to send those off before I go to Belgium.18:00
yvl(you should get these from POV really soon)18:01
replaceafillwill work on mine18:01
th1aOK, have a great week gentlemen!18:01
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:01
yvlhappy coding, guys :)18:02
replaceafillthanks everybody18:02
aelknergreat week everyone!18:02
th1amenesis:  Let's wait a few days to push the release to Karmic.  There is no rush.18:02
th1aSee if any bugs turn up.18:02
menesisth1a: sorry, I have copied the packages to Karmic already18:03
th1aOK.  No biggie.18:03
menesisbut there have been very little bugs reported about karmic since the initial issues, I guess no one uses that. or there are no bugs :)18:03
menesisbtw, I have named the release schooltool-1.3.218:04
th1aWell, we fixed a lot of bugs, but not packaging, crashing bugs.18:05
*** ignas has joined #schooltool18:05
menesisbecause that was supposed to be rc18:05
menesisI am waiting that some bugs are fixed, or new ones pop up after testing, to release 1.4.0 later18:05
menesisbut yvl told me that nothing will be fixed any more18:06
menesiswhat should I do with then?18:06
menesisthe bugs in that milestone18:06
th1aThe ones not fixed?18:06
th1aI'd rather roll them over to the next release milestone than give them none.18:07
menesisI fixed some tracebacks today, but there are features that did not make it18:07
menesisbut as I understand they were important to do18:08
menesisbut no one will be working on them now?18:08
th1aNot immediately.18:08
menesisI will create new milestones, 1.4.1 for bugfix release due sometime in May and 1.5.0 for "next development release"18:10
th1aWell, make a 1.6 too.18:11
th1aI'd say unfixed things for 1.4 should default to 1.6.18:11
menesissome of them have milestones reassigned many times already...18:12
menesismaybe I'll leave the milestones untouched18:13
th1aOK, I can mess with that.18:13
th1aCan you make the new ones?18:13
th1aActually, perhaps we can use the main SchoolTool number across all projects for milestones.18:13
th1aBecause that's one place where different numbers per project is super confusing.18:14
th1aAnd it is in line with the concept of a milestone anyhow.18:14
th1aThe overall release is the milestone.18:14
menesismilestone becomes a release18:14
menesisand a version number18:15
menesisbut some projects have more releases that others18:16
menesisso the versions are different anyway18:17
menesisbut well18:17
th1aFor planning purposes,18:18
menesisbut yes we can have milestones that are not version numbers18:18
menesisfor planning purpose18:18
th1athere is basically:18:18
th1ado this for the next bugfix;18:18
th1ado this for some other more significant interim milestone that we come up with (which we should be doing less);18:18
th1ado this for the next major release.18:18
th1aActually, I wouldn't mind being able to just mark the next major release AFTER the current one for that matter.18:19
menesisand assign version number only when the bug is fixed and merged to trunk18:20
th1aYes, we could do that.18:21
th1aMaybe just "next bugfix release" and "next major release"18:21
menesiswill think a little about that18:22
menesiswe still have a "lucid" milestone18:23
menesisok, later.18:24
th1athanks menesis.18:24
*** mgedmin has quit IRC19:10
*** menesis has quit IRC19:11
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool19:25
*** menesis has joined #schooltool19:51
replaceafillmenesis, i dont know if what i did was right, i downloaded es_SV.po uploaded by yvl and tried to uploaded to
replaceafillnow, i see a queue which i don't understand :(
menesisreplaceafill: good20:57
menesisit takes time to be imported20:57
menesisit is uploaded and the target is correct. have to wait (a few hours). You do not need to do anything else20:58
replaceafillah great20:58
replaceafilli think we'll keep it open and see how that works20:58
replaceafilli guess nobody will mess with it20:59
yvlso, this is your upload: Uploaded by Douglas Cerna  on 2010-05-03 20:51:46 EEST21:00
yvland this one was picked up by LP: Uploaded by Justas Sadzevičius  on 2010-05-03 18:10:33 EEST21:00
replaceafillyvl, yes, is it the same as you did?21:00
yvlno, my was picked up by LP from trunk, I guess21:00
yvlthat means, adding a new locale should be easy21:01
yvland commit21:01
yvland if you want to copy translations (say, from spanish)21:01
replaceafillyvl, if it's not too much to ask, could we have the same in the other projects (gradebook, interventions, and maybe cando)?21:02
yvljust give --input es.po21:02
yvlwill do21:02
replaceafillyvl, thanks21:02
replaceafilli'll start pointing our users to those urls21:02
yvldone, except cando21:13
replaceafillyvl, thanks!21:13
*** lisppaste5 has quit IRC22:55
*** replaceafill has quit IRC23:19

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!