IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2010-03-25

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th1amenesis:  I take it you don't really want me to use the "lucid" milestone.16:26
menesisth1a: yes, because it has many bugs assigned that no one will be working on before lucid16:27
menesisthere is a 1.3.1 milestone for next development release16:28
menesisand I will create 1.4.0 for the final release expected 2216:30
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menesis"lucid" was named "karmic" before, but little of those bugs were fixed, so the name is misleading16:32
aelkneryvl: ayt?16:49
yvlmorning aelkner16:50
yvlyes, in a moment16:50
aelknerdid you get my email?16:50
yvlyes, read it, we can discuss once I have my coffee with me ;)16:51
yvlok, aelkner I'm ready :)16:59
yvlfirst, a small suggestion about naming16:59
yvlmaybe ?16:59
yvlor schooltool.careerpath ?16:59
yvlI like the first one better a little bit17:00
yvlschooltool.scheduler is a bit too confusing with the purpose of schooltool.tasks at the moment17:00
ignasyeah, schedule also means well - schedule in schools17:01
yvltrue :)17:01
ignasand that might confuse people looking for timetabling stuff17:01
yvlyes, also timetables are called schedule in the UI, at least in some places17:01
yvlaelkner: say something when you're back at you pc17:02
ignasyvl, timetables are not called schedule, but the action of "creating a timetable for something" is17:03
yvlalso, "look at timetables of something"17:04
yvlat least it works this way for sections now17:05
th1aI'm sure dwelsh knows what he wants to call it.17:05
th1aI doubt it will be "scheduler."17:06
aelknerspoke to dwelsh yesterday17:06
aelknerhe suggested schooltool.courseplanner17:06
aelknerwhich is what it does after all17:06
th1aOK, that's settled.17:07
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aelkneryvl: the other two issues from my email?  your comments?17:09
* yvl doesn't like schooltool.courseplanner, but not my call. schooltool.courseplan would be better, judging from VB app UI schooltool.careerplan would be more appropriate17:09
yvlok, comments about other issues...17:09
aelknercourseplan is better17:09
aelkneri also said to jelkner and dwelsh17:10
aelknerwe have gradebook and schooltool17:10
aelknerboth two-word single works, so to speak :)17:10
aelknerand each word is one syslable17:10
aelkneranyway, courseplan follows that pattern, so...17:11
yvlI just expressed my opinion, not trying to discuss that17:11
aelknersorry, but you made a good point, so...17:11
aelkneryou can move n17:11
yvlok, first, implementation of levels will go to schooltool.courseplan17:12
yvlin a way requirements go to gradebook17:12
yvlschooltool.gradebook has directory layout:17:12
yvlschooltool.coursplan will have:17:12
yvlwe will move levels to the core when it makes sense17:13
yvlthen, we'll need another container related to the schoolyear, similar to InverventionsSchoolYear17:15
yvlit should contain several things17:15
aelknerapp['schooltool.courseplan'] contains objects of type ICoursePlanSchoolYear, yes?17:15
yvlwait, no, I misspoke17:16
yvlsimilar to cambodia.level17:16
yvlor schooltool.group17:16
yvladapters from schoolyear to ICoursPlanSomething17:16
yvlI will write that17:16
yvlas I thing it would be best if I set up the initial egg for you17:17
yvlas in - fastest17:17
yvlso, we'll need several per-year things17:18
yvlfor one, the career path (the set of planned courses) for each student, as valid in this school year17:18
yvlsecond, the pathways/clusters/divisions/whatever the school offers this year17:18
yvlthis way, school may change the offered pathways each year17:20
yvlstudent's selected career should be updated (by him) every year17:20
yvlin case some of the selected courses are no longer available17:21
yvlso, answering your question "should we track courses AND schoolyears" - no, we should not17:21
aelkneryou're saying we should force the student to replan every year?!17:22
yvlwe can copy automatically17:23
aelkneryou say update, in what way?17:23
th1aActually, I like careerplan better, too.  ;-)17:23
yvlfrom the data model's point of view - yes, student's career plan should be built anew every year from the pathways offered by the school that year17:24
th1aIt depends on how they implement it.17:24
yvlth1a - do you mean data model or UI ?17:25
yvlor subscribers that copy the data to the new year?17:25
th1aData model.17:25
yvlwhen the year is activated17:25
th1aI don't think we need version of the career paths.17:25
th1aI say I want to do the "auto body" career path.17:26
th1ain grade 9 the first class in that sequence is metalwork 1, second is metalwork 2.17:26
th1aSo I take metalwork 1.17:26
th1aNext year, the requirements are changed to plasticwork 1 and 2.17:27
th1aThe important thing is that my career path is "auto body"17:27
th1aThe old career path is just obsolete and gone now.17:27
th1aThe new path checks to see what I need to take this year, based on its requirement structure.17:28
th1aaelkner had some stuff we discussed about "pre-" and "post-requirement" attributes for courses we discussed a bit on the phone but I don't think are the way to go.  If that is causing some confusion.17:29
th1aOr, perhaps we need pre-requisites, but not to determine the paths.17:30
yvllooking at the VB app screenshots I got the feel that "pre-" and "post-" are actually "courses required" to take put a course to the career plan and "courses offered after you take it"17:30
yvlwhere "courses offered after" can be:17:30
yvl1) calculated from "courses required" attribute on all other courses17:31
yvl2) just a suggestion, in which case they don't make any sense to me17:31
aelkneri agree we can calculate post-reqs from the pre-reqs of other courses17:32
th1aWe just need to steal some skill tree code from an open source MMO.17:33
yvl.... :D17:33
yvlok, so if I got th1a right, we do want career paths to be configurable per-year17:33
yvlanyway - the courses live and are registered per year17:34
yvlso when the new year is activated, we either:17:34
yvl1) store career pathways directly in app and update the career paths to point to the courses of the active year17:35
yvl2) store career pathways per-year and update them to point to the courses of the year they're in17:35
th1aWell, I guess one thing aelkner and I were dancing around is whether the paths should not be year-dependent.17:36
th1aThat is, should they use a course identifier not dependent on the year.17:36
yvlthat is also a choice - implement courses that are stored in app instead of a schoolyear17:37
yvlbut I vote no :)17:37
th1aOr just use an identifier across years.17:37
th1aThere is a kind of weird element of longevity here.17:37
yvlwell we could... but I so do not want to do that17:38
th1aWhat has to last a long time is a student's choice of career path.17:38
ignasEveMon :D17:38
th1aThe idea is literally, I pick a path, go away for five years, and the system still knows what my path needs.17:38
th1aIt is EveMon.17:39
th1aWhich is open source!17:39
th1aSo if I pick AutoBody 2001,17:39
th1aand if the system loses the relationship between Autobody 2001 and Autobody 2006, that is a FAIL.17:40
ignasth1a, give yvl your public key17:40
ignasand a link to EveMon17:40
ignashe should see how "planning" looks17:40
th1aYou give him your public key!17:40
ignasok, in a couple of hours17:40
ignasgot to run now ;)17:40
th1aOr have you closed your account?17:40
ignasok, running ;) see you17:41
yvlsee ya, ignas17:41
aelknerth1a: i need to shower and head down to virginia17:41
th1aAnyhow, see what I'm getting at?17:41
aelkneryvl: can we meet omorrow at the same time?17:41
th1aAlso, in 2006, what autobody looked like in 2001 is irrelevant.17:41
aelknerth1a: i need to shower and head down to virginia17:41
yvlaelkner, ok17:42
th1aUnlike most things, the record of the history of the composition of the career path is pretty unnecessary.17:42
th1aI'm just completing my thought.17:42
yvlth1a, you're really helping me to make up my mind17:42
aelkneryvl: can you create the package schooltool.careerplan for tomorrow's meeting?17:42
yvlI can try :D17:42
aelkneri'[d like to be able to have something concrete to look at17:43
aelknerbecuase when i get started with jerry on saturday, you guys won't be around (:17:43
aelknerth1a: you agree that levels go in the new package?17:44
aelkneryvl: will we be creating annotations of course objects?17:44
yvlaelkner, now I think that we will not17:44
aelkneryvl: please think about this carefully for tomorrow17:45
yvlth1a convinced me :)17:45
aelknerwe have to nail this stuff down by the time you sign off tomorrow17:45
yvlI understand, aelkner17:45
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aelknerok, same time tomorrow, then?17:47
yvlsee you, aelkner17:47
aelknerthanks, cya17:47
yvlth1a, there is also a small matter about nearest deb release17:51
yvlbut maybe I just better mail you the details tomorrow17:51
yvlmenesis did some deb releases to Karmiv17:51
yvlafter the initial release17:51
yvlof schooltool, gradebook, etc.17:52
yvland I think some of them silently got unannounced17:52
yvlit would be convenient now to do a release again17:52
yvlbut that leaves us with "lucid" release basically done in karmic17:53
th1aI kind of let that slide.17:53
yvlno prob17:53
th1a(the secret gradebook releases)17:53
yvlit was actually... well, useful for some developers and some release managers17:53
th1aBut menesis should be sending me release notes notes *before* that point, of course.17:53
th1aAre you saying we're already freezing Lucid features?17:54
yvlI'd say soft freeze on 8th, hard freeze on 15th17:54
th1aI'm sending an email now...17:55
yvl"soft freeze" - please submit branches for review17:55
th1aThat sounds fine.17:55
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yvlok then17:56
yvlI'll ramble on a bit more about releases on email17:56
yvljust you know... so we all would be clear :)17:56
yvlah, and a small question17:57
yvlcan I expect 1-2 months of dev work to tinker under the hood before the lucid+1?17:58
yvlrefactoring, helpers, changing API, things like that17:59
yvlI would explain in more detail what I want to do and why of course17:59
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th1aYou mean, in addition to working on the grant deployments?18:00
yvlin the scale [no way .. only if it gives short term gain .. maybe]18:01
yvlah, "only if you prove it's worth it" is also an answer18:02
yvlumm, as in answer scale18:02
yvlor is my english broken again?..18:03
th1aSomething's broken.  ;-)18:03
yvlhmm, let me put it another way...18:04
yvlthere's some big chunks of work that are not very urgent18:04
th1aLet me put it this way:18:04
yvlthank you18:04
yvlseriously - this is a very good answer18:05
yvlthanks :)18:06
yvlallright then18:07
yvlsee you later ;)18:07
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ignasyvl, hola18:28
ignasso, you wanna see a "course planning application" ?18:29
ignas(you'll need windows for that though)18:29
ignaswell - call me if you'll need some inspiration18:34
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