IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2010-01-11

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th1aGood morning menesis, yvl, aelkner, Lumiere, ignas.16:30
yvlmorning th1a!16:30
th1aI expect Mark back from vacation tomorrow, so hopefully we'll know if we have jobs in the next few days.16:32
th1amenesis:  Good work on the packaging last week.16:33
th1aJust in the future try not to spring those updates on Friday afternoon, to make it a little easier on yourself.16:33
th1aWhat is the next step re:getting into Lucid?16:36
menesiswrite email to Daniel...16:37
menesisubuntu developer application16:38
th1aOK, let's keep things rolling, then.16:38
menesisand similar things I don't know yet because I haven't started the talk yet16:39
th1aThis is a long sequence of events on a tight schedule so we need to keep pushing forward.16:39
th1aYes... just send that email asap.16:39
menesisI know, and have done most of important things to concentrate on this now16:40
th1aCool.  Just checking.  ;-)16:40
th1ayvl: How was your week?16:42
yvlinteresting :)16:42
yvlI ran into some blockers, so little physical work got done16:43
yvlbut I'm pretty happy with the progress :)16:43
yvltopics: translations, "developers handbook", security descriptions16:44
th1aGive me a little on all three.16:44
yvlAs far as the translations go, I discussed with menesis, we'd like to push them up the repozitory tree near src16:45
yvland fix the zcml to get the translation directory from buildout somehow16:46
yvlI have some ideas how to do that, and it should be helpful if we want deb installed ST to place translations where they should be16:46
yvlnot in system python16:46
yvlalso, I'd like to fix the translation extraction/compilation mechanism a bit16:47
yvlso developers could easily check if they introduced new translations16:47
menesisI like that :)16:47
th1aIt sounds necessary.16:47
yvldid some work on that, still ~few days left16:48
yvlit would make our lives easier :)16:48
yvlnext, the handbook16:48
th1aIn terms of random inquiries, etc., South Asia seems like our biggest market atm, so, lots of complex translations.16:48
yvlalso some rustle from India?16:49
yvlso, next, I read documentation on manuel and Sphinx16:49
yvlI'm still in a bit of a doubt if we should use manuel (it's an enhancement of doc tests)16:50
th1ayvl: Yeah.16:50
yvlbut it offers some very appealing features if we want to use Sphinx to build a handbook16:50
th1aI'm a little unclear about manuel too.16:51
yvlfootnotes, hidden code, that stuff16:51
th1aWe definitely should use Sphinx though.16:51
yvlif we combine those two, we can have tests that also are used to build the handbook16:51
yvlso it's not too out-of-date16:51
th1aSo presumably manuel is also a good idea.  Is it Zope specific?  I don't remember.16:51
yvlno, it's not16:51
yvlbut it's friendly with Zope's testrunner16:52
yvland it's friendly with RST Sphinx understands16:52
th1aI'd say unless you're hearing bad things about it, we should probably assume we're using manuel.16:52
mgedminit was written by zope people as a better alternative to doctest.py16:52
yvlby the way this *is not* intended to be a replacement for our tests16:53
yvlmore of a complement16:53
yvlwe already  README.TXT16:53
yvlwe already have tests like README.TXT in gradebook, so why not make it like a book16:54
yvlchapters and stuff :)16:54
yvlbut we should still write unit and functional tests for corner cases!16:54
th1aI've fiddled with that in Sphinx but couldn't really grok it.16:54
yvlit's a bit cumbersome16:55
ignasyvl, menesis: what's in the top level README.txt of schooltool at the moment?16:55
menesisI would like docs to be made from schooltool sources16:55
menesisand published to for gradebook docs for example16:56
* ignas has thom43thdhtl with problems, because ubuntu-environment was not "suggested" loudly enough in some README.txt that she read...16:56
yvltrue, README.txt is outdated16:56
th1aCan we sync that with the instructions in the developer part of the book?16:57
ignasit should be identical to dev sandbox i'd say16:57
yvl[making a note...]16:57
yvlif we had a handbook built from source...  I really really want that :)16:58
ignasalso - users seem to be getting a handle of my contacts on launchpad somehow, I think your contacts should be displayed more "prominently" in launchpad questions / bug tracker ;)16:58
yvlsorry, ignas, you're in for life :P16:59
th1aHm... that sounds like a launchpad bug.16:59
ignasthough it's more of a gtalk problem, it is way easier to "hand someone over"16:59
ignasusing irc16:59
yvlmaybe we should kindly ask our users to come over to IRC if they want a "live" answer?17:00
yvlI mean, more kindly than we are asking now :)17:00
th1aAnyhow... moving on to the next thing yvl?17:02
yvlin for example17:02
yvlok, moving on17:02
yvlthe security descriptions17:02
yvlthis one is moving on, though it got delayed a bit17:03
yvlone of the reasons is that I wanted the tutorial to be a doctest17:03
yvland to have zcml directives that are actually executed there17:03
yvlstuff like that17:03
yvlnow it looks like I'll need few days to finish + polish17:04
* yvl is not that experienced in *writing* tutorials / explanations why a stuff is done in a particular way17:05
th1aIt is a pain, isn't it?  ;-)17:05
yvlwell... ;)17:06
yvland the last thing: th1a, I converted you question about recovering admin password to a bug17:06
yvlplease assign priority, etc.17:06
th1aSo... is it possible but inconvenient now, or impossible?17:06
yvlI'm pretty sure that it is possible, but extremely inconvenient17:07
yvlor maybe there's some whay to do it with less inconvenience...17:07
LumiereI'd suggest that it should be some what inconvient17:07
th1aI'm ok with it being very inconvienient but possible.17:08
yvlcommand line and servert restart will be inconvenient enough, I reckon ;)17:08
th1aI'm just saying, we don't need to spend developer time making it *easy*.17:08
yvlI understand17:09
yvlbut I don't like a risk of spending developer time explaining what to edit and what to copy from where to users17:09
yvlso, it's not top priority, but we need to fix that, right?17:10
th1aWell, it is a "medium" priority at this point I'd say.17:10
yvlgood :)17:10
th1aSo... when will you be ready for aelkner to start doing this security stuff?17:10
yvlroughly on Wednesday again17:11
th1aAnything else yvl?17:11
yvlno, that's it17:11
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th1aOK.  aelkner?17:11
aelkneri decided to take another week of vacation after all as there wasn't anything urgent on my plate17:12
th1aSince I cannot personally guarantee you'd even be paid, I can hardly complain.17:12
th1aThe big things coming up for you, as I see them now are:17:13
th1a1) security descriptions17:13
th1a2) "states" for person status -- we'll plan this as soon as we can get you up here.  This is pretty much the one big new chunk I'd like to get in Lucid.17:14
th1a3) improvements to Intervention to fit non-SLA workflows (hopefully in Lucid as this will mostly just be view improvements anyhow).17:14
th1aExamples of 3) would include less dependence on email, for example.17:15
th1aMake sense?17:15
aelknerhow do you mean less email?17:15
th1aI mean, it should work reasonably well if you don't have email enabled.17:16
th1ae.g., I should be able to see an "inbox" of Interventions messages within SchoolTool.17:16
aelkneri'm gathering you don't like the student intervention center view17:17
th1aFor the individual student?17:17
aelkneryeah, that one17:17
aelknerah, i see17:17
th1aI've not really gotten to that yet, but it seems pretty ok.17:17
aelkneryou want the teacher to have a view17:17
th1aI want > click "Intervention" see important intervention data relevant to me.17:18
aelknerme as teacher, right?17:18
th1aUltimately, whomever I am.17:18
aelknerit could be done17:19
th1aOne would hope.17:19
aelknereven though the data is organized under a student17:19
th1aYou might need an index or something.17:19
aelknerviews could loop though all students looking for the teacher amogst the recipients17:19
* th1a waves his hands.17:19
* aelkner waves back17:20
* th1a looks around the room.17:20
aelkneryes, we could add an index for the messaes and goals17:21
aelknerto make the lookup fast enough17:21
th1aAnyhow, we won't get to that for a while, but I'm going to file some more bugs so I don't forget what I want to do.17:23
aelknersounds like a plan17:23
dkg0th1a: has any work been done on managing things like student-preference-driven signup for courses?17:23
dkg0i have some folks i'm working with who would like students to be able to indicate preferences17:24
dkg0and then use that to assign them to classes.17:24
dkg0i'd be interested in working on this as a feature17:24
dkg0but i don't want to duplicate current work.17:24
th1aNo, you won't be stepping on anyone's toes.17:24
dkg0i could write up a blueprint if that'd be useful.17:24
dkg0have you heard of requests like that from other folks?17:25
menesisaelkner: yvl has done a catalog for contacts in October IIRC so there is an example of catalog17:25
th1a(yes, other people are interested)17:25
dkg0cool.  would a blueprint in launchpad be the right way to start?17:25
th1adkg0: Writing a blueprint would make it easier for our developers to point you in the right direction.17:25
th1aThat would be the main benefit.17:25
dkg0i might have to bug you with questions a bit as i come up to speed :/17:26
th1aYou absolutely will need some help.17:26
th1aSo if you're very specific about the *minimum* useful functionality, that will help.17:26
dkg0ok, cool.  i'll try to get something written up soon so i can get some feeedback.17:26
th1aDon't worry about what will be "nice to have" in the future.17:26
th1aJust start with the bare minimum.17:27
th1aaelkner:  Are you going to get started on some leftover bugs while yvl is finishing up the security description stuff?17:28
aelkneryes, i'll do that17:29
th1aOK.  Cool.17:29
th1aI believe that's it.17:30
th1aRight on time.17:30
th1aJust like I planned it.17:30
th1aHave a great week, gentlemen.17:30
th1aHopefully I'll have news soon...17:30
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:30
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