IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-09-28

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th1aflint!  Jennifer and I were just talking about you while driving up to Burlington on Friday.16:07
flintGood morning Alan, it the meeting happening?16:07
th1ath1a = tom.16:07
th1aYes, there will be a meeting.16:08
flintth1a, Ah Tom, I have been involved with other things, but I have not forgotten my commitment here...16:08
flintth1a, indeed... thanks for keeping thing rolling Mr. Hoffman!16:08
th1aJennifer said, "Wasn't Flint going to do something on SchoolTool?"  and I said, "Ah, well, that's the kind of thing where I don't know if I'm supposed to be nagging him, or whether it would do any good."16:09
th1a(the nagging, that is)16:09
flintth1a, what brought you to Burlington this week?  Has Jennifer family in the Big "B"?16:09
* Lumiere drops an anvil on flint 16:10
flintLumiere, indeed...16:10
th1aYes, her second cousin's 60th birthday.16:10
th1aHer grandparents lived there.16:11
flintth1a, ah... excellent, and the young one is well?16:11
th1aVivian is doing well.  Julia is too.  You haven't met Julia yet.16:13
flintth1a, I have met your daughter but not you wife as I recall...  (go figure :^)16:15
th1aflint:  I'm afraid your memory is going.16:15
th1aVivian and Jennifer (wife) and I visited you in Barre.  Julia wasn't around yet (she's 6 months old).16:16
Lumiereth1a: flint's memory has been going for ages ;)16:17
* th1a can't remember anything about anybody else's children either.16:17
th1aGood morning aelkner, yvl.16:31
aelknergood morning16:31
th1ahi Lumiere.16:31
yvlhi th1a16:32
th1aIt may be time for us to learn Khmer.16:32
th1aThe language.16:32
th1aIt's looking like we may have a serious pilot in Cambodia next year.16:33
yvlmigrating to Cambodia?16:33
LumiereI see16:33
yvlcool! :)16:33
Lumiereth1a: just get an english speaking customer to represent them :)16:34
yvlis that government initiative?16:35
th1aThere is a Spanish fellow named Javier Sola who is kind of the intermediary.16:35
th1aYes, I just forwarded the mail to you.16:35
yvloh, sorry, just got the email16:35
LumiereFROM NIGERIA! (sorry, had to)16:36
th1aalga: I forwarded the mail to you, too.16:37
th1aTheir requirements are pretty typical for very poor countries.16:38
th1aI had a meeting with a UN agency that does training for school administrators in the developing world, and they all just need software to keep track of basic data about all their schools.16:38
Lumiereth1a: does this mean we need multi-school functionality?16:40
LumiereI somehow doubt that they want to install it for every school in Cambodia16:40
th1aWell, it is going back to the original specifications for SchoolTool -- all schools don't have internet connectivity.16:41
th1aParticularly not reliable internet connectivity.16:41
th1aThey would like to be able to manage some multi-school instances.16:42
th1aWe'll have to see if they can just do multiple Zope instances or if it is time to start thinking about doing it in one SchoolTool instance.16:42
th1aAny other questions or comments about the email?16:43
yvlhmm, not yet16:44
aelknerI didn't see any mention of a grant amount16:44
aelkneris that coming?16:45
th1aaelkner: There wouldn't be a direct grant.16:45
aelkneran indirect one?16:46
th1aBut having SchoolTool actually being used in schools in the developing world open up a lot more possibilities, grant-wise.16:46
aelknermakes sense16:46
th1aAlso, they seem to have some development resources themselves, and grant resources.16:47
aelknerwell,, it sounds exciting16:48
th1aWe'll be discussing this more, but at this point, I expect it to become one of SchoolTool's main goals for next year (and the end of this year).16:49
th1aThey seem to have a lot of capacity and organization nationally *compared to* their overall low level of tech in actual schools, which kind of makes it perfect.16:50
th1aEspecially with a strong open source strategy.16:50
th1ayvl: And you can tell menesis that it shows how important packaging is, since they would be using OpenAdmin if they'd been able to get the packaging to work.16:51
th1aOK, moving on then...16:52
th1aaelkner: How has your work been coming?16:52
aelkneri chose the task of adding linked columns last week16:52
aelknerit was estimated at five days, and i thought i was gong to mark it finished last night16:52
aelknerbut i think i might need one more day16:53
aelknerit depends on your answer to a couple of questions16:53
th1aDo you want to ask me now or later?16:53
aelkner1) are we allowing the user to link to activities or worksheet averages from outside sections?16:53
th1aFrom other non-linked sections?16:54
aelknerwell, yeah, for starters16:54
aelknerso far i include all sections the teacher teaches16:55
aelknershould it only be the linked sections16:55
th1aWell, if it already does all of them, I'm not sure if it is worth limiting it further.16:56
th1aAt least, it wouldn't be a priority.16:56
aelkneri can leave it as it is16:56
th1aSounds fine.16:56
aelkneri had to fail safe on the student not existing in the source section16:56
th1aYou had to do that anyhow.16:57
aelknertrue, but only if i included outside sections with different lists of students16:57
aelknerok, so there's nothing to do differently for that then16:57
th1aLinked sections can have different students.16:58
aelknerright, hense the issue16:58
th1amoving on...16:58
aelkner2) originally, you suggested the add link view have a table16:58
aelknereach row in the table would correspond to an activity16:59
aelknerand have a button to push for that activity16:59
aelkneri got all of that to work, and then it occured to me16:59
aelknerthat table could get awfully large with activities and a bit unwieldy17:00
aelkneri have an alternative suggestion17:00
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aelknerthe table could have just one row per worksheet17:00
aelknerand the row would have a drop-down of activities + the word 'Average'17:00
aelknerand a button next to the drop down to say 'use the activity (or worksheet average) selected'17:01
aelknerthat would make the table leaner and cleaner looking17:01
th1aWell, the thing is that drop down can get really long.17:01
th1aLike 30 items.17:02
aelknerwould that be unacceptable?17:02
th1aAnd I'd rather look at a list of thirty things in a table than scrolling around a giant drop-down.17:02
aelkneryou'd be scrolling around a giant table instead, no?17:02
th1aIt is ok for now if it is a long table, as long as it is in a sane order.17:03
th1aA really long drop-down is just hard to use.17:03
aelkneri have it sorting by term, section, worksheet, activity17:03
th1aIn a table?17:04
aelknerthose are the columns17:04
th1aPerhaps you can send me a screenshot.17:04
aelknerwill do17:04
th1aLet's finish your specific issues after the meeting, aelkner.17:04
aelkneranyway, this week, i'm going to move onto the journal bug that we estimated for three days17:05
th1aWhich one was that?17:05
aelknermake journal data accessible to report card layout17:06
aelknerthe estimate included the time i would need to get up to speed with the journal code17:06
aelknerso that's all i got17:06
yvlI finally got the self contacts working17:07
yvlthe functional test is not finished, but it's not much left to do17:07
yvldoing proper indexing was hell17:07
yvlbut the contacts will be as fast as persons now17:08
yvland all users have auto-generated contact entries17:08
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yvlfor developers: to get self contact information, you need to adapt the person to IContact17:09
yvlfor other people: there's a "Contact Info." action button in person's home page17:10
yvland of course you can look them up in manage->contacts17:10
yvlyou cannot delete contacts of users there, by the way17:10
th1a"Contact Info" plus "Contacts" or in place of.17:10
th1aContact info is self only?17:11
th1aThose may need to be integrated into one page.17:11
yvlmaybe an umbrella page17:11
th1aLike, self info above other contacts.17:11
th1aOne page where you can see both.17:12
yvlthere's a lot of stuff in contacts page now anyway17:12
yvlmaybe one page were you can navigate to both17:12
yvlto any of them, I mean17:12
th1aNo... sometimes we start thinking people don't want a lot of info on one page because it will look cluttered or something.17:12
th1aBut certainly on some pages in SchoolTool people want as much info in one place as they can get.17:13
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th1aSo the contacts page looks the same as it does now?17:13
th1aCan you send me a screenshot of the new "contact info" page?17:13
yvlsure, one sec.17:14
yvlhmm, you know, you are right17:15
yvlwe can definitely squeeze in the "view" mode of self contact above the other contact management table17:15
th1aYes.  Now that I'm thinking about it, we probably shouldn't be requiring you to click on each contact to get the full info, either.17:16
th1aYou should see all the relevant contact info when you click "Contacts" and editing should be below or in an action button.17:17
yvlwell, you can see address17:17
yvlwe can of course add other stuff17:18
th1aWe really should do that because most of the time getting that info is why you'll be pressing that button.17:18
th1aWe tend to focus on screens to set up the data, but once you're rolling, 90% of the time users will just want to view it.17:18
th1aFor contacts, that is.17:19
yvlI agree17:19
yvlstill, in person's contacts the table will look cramped if we just bluntly put all the available info for assigned contacts17:20
yvlI'd be happy if we limit to something like: address, phone numbers, email17:20
th1aI guess we could have "Contacts" send you to a view page and actions to edit self or other contacts.17:21
th1aThat's the most straightforward way to do it.17:21
yvlsounds right17:21
yvlI'll do that17:22
th1aOK.  If you talk about it long enough, the obvious reveals itself.17:22
yvlso that's it from me, sadly17:22
yvlI kind of liked some of the changes that were made under-the-hood :)17:23
yvlwith indexing17:23
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th1aDid you figure out some things that will be generally useful?17:23
yvlhmm, I think I got backbone right for "multi-source" object indexes17:24
yvlsome of it may be used if we rework calendar events17:25
yvlI think Ignas talked about it some time ago17:25
th1aSo we've got string freeze slated for the 9th.17:26
th1aSo we need to have contacts and the new security pages settled by then.17:27
th1aThanks yvl.17:27
th1aAny last words from anyone?17:28
th1aHave a great week gentlemen!17:28
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:28
th1aand goes to pee before resuming discussing aelkner's issues.17:28
aelknerme too17:30
aelkneri'm back17:31
th1aGo ahead.17:32
aelknerdid you look at the screenshot i sent you (the second email)17:33
th1aOh, no...17:34
flintth1a, did you get my email?17:34
th1aflint:  Just read it, thanks.17:35
aelknerth1a: if that looks ok to you, then i'm done17:35
th1aIf you could make the rows take up less vertical space (make the buttons smaller) and generally style the table more like the other index tables in SchoolTool (alternating colors by row) that's fine.17:37
aelknerok, will do17:37
aelkneri don't have anything else that needs to be discussed, you?17:38
aelknerok, i'll let you know how the journal bug is going after a while17:40
th1aThanks, aelkner.17:40
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