IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-08-24

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th1ahi dwelsh, yvl, aelkner, moquist.16:30
th1a& Lumiere.16:30
yvlhi th1a16:31
* yvl realises being in out-of-coffe situation. Be right back.16:32
Lumieremorning all16:33
th1aGood morning.16:34
th1aLumiere & dwelsh:  Want to start with a quick CanDo update?16:34
* yvl back16:35
LumiereI am out a bit16:35
th1ayvl is back from vacation now too?16:36
th1aAnd menesis?16:36
yvlhe'll be back tomorrow16:36
yvland available on Tue-Thu16:37
yvlthis week16:37
dwelshI'm now here... Jerry was in my office.16:37
dwelshCanDo update?16:37
dwelshCanDo09 released this past Friday around noon.16:38
dwelshMajor changes between CanDo08 and CanDo09:16:38
dwelsh1) Setup is much more automated16:38
dwelshwith more imports of data, and smarter importers16:38
dwelshin general, we avoided the all-in-one, multi-tabbed spreadsheet16:38
dwelshfor individual importers16:39
dwelshNow CanDo09 imports and updates:16:39
dwelshThe global competency database (in a very clever way)16:39
dwelshSections and Enrollment16:39
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dwelshCTE Resource begins training on CanDo09 this week16:39
dwelshFive counties in Arlington besides Arlington are running CanDo0916:40
dwelshTotal teachers:  23516:40
dwelshTotal schools:  2816:40
dwelshTotal students:  23,54716:40
dwelshArlington adds another 7 schools, 75 teachers, at least 5,000 students16:41
dwelshIn addition, another 30 teachers across the state, at least, will load and run CanDo09 on their own16:41
dwelshIn sort of rogue, ad-hoc setups16:41
dwelshDouglas did an amazing job with coding, coming off of his sick-bed to do it16:42
dwelshJason provided great help and support, along with SchoolTool and POV16:42
dwelshI expect this to be the launchpad this year to statewide CanDo release in 2010-201116:42
dwelshSo the CanDo news is quite exciting16:42
dwelshIssues I will track as we move forward:16:43
th1aI'm looking forward to the documentation of the import system.16:43
dwelsh1) Is the final CanDo package done out of POV (we requested the third and final package Friday midday)16:43
dwelsh2) I'm sure we will get bug reports and will need minor fixes, features, etc. in Sept & Oct.16:43
Lumiereon 1) Check Launchpad PPA for it16:44
dwelshYes, CTE Resource will be doing important documentation and training on CanDo0916:44
th1aIs that going to take menesis returning on Tuesday?16:44
dwelshThis will greatly expand anything Arlington and SchoolTool can provide16:44
dwelshThe CTE Resource folks are very capable and very committed to CanDo16:44
dwelshThat's my report.16:44
dwelshQuestions, problems, concerns?16:44
Lumiereth1a: 1 will, yes16:44
th1aSounds good to me.16:45
dwelshAgain, many thanks to Jason, SchoolTool, Douglas and POV16:45
dwelshAlso Alan Elkner... always there willing to help16:45
th1aThank you dwelsh.16:46
th1aOK, yvl.  Where are you picking things up now?16:46
yvlon security policy explanations16:47
yvlI'm still not satisfied with the mechanism I have now16:48
yvltoo much pain to maintain16:48
yvlI'll look at several promising ends for one more day16:48
yvland that's it16:48
yvlIf I can't come up with anything better - the thing I have now will have to do :|16:49
yvlwell, thats about it.16:49
th1aI'm sure it is an improvement over what we've got now.16:49
th1aWhat's next after that?16:50
yvlfrom users perspective - yes, definitely16:50
yvlactually, I didn't think about it yet16:50
th1aI'd say action buttons is the last major project before the October release.16:50
th1a(for yvl)16:50
yvllast, as in "the final one before release"?16:51
yvlor as in "with the least priority"?16:51
yvlok, got it.16:51
th1aFinal one before release.16:52
th1aThen bugs.16:53
th1aaelkner and I had a good meeting at SLA on Friday.16:53
th1aGot some excellent feedback from Chris Lehmann.16:54
th1aOverall the report sheet system made sense to him, and he was impressed by the amount of improvements in the gradebook.16:54
yvlGood to hear!16:56
th1aaelkner: Do you want to lead us through the list of things to discuss today that we came up with?16:56
aelknerdid my email to the new list get through?16:56
aelknerthere were three things we needed to discuss today:16:57
aelkner1) we need consistent css for tabs across schooltool16:57
yvlyes it did, aelkner16:57
aelknertom likes what yvl did for the sections intervention view16:58
aelknerthe tabs look like real folder tabs16:58
th1aSo perhaps we can polish that a bit and make all the tabs look like that.16:58
aelknerwhat needs to be polished?16:58
th1aJust a few lines, more at the sides of the tabs.16:59
th1aThe edges of the rest of the "folder."16:59
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th1aAnyhow, any known issues with that idea?17:00
yvlwhat other schooltool tabs do you have in mind?17:00
th1aGradebook, journal.17:00
aelknerdoes the calendar have tabs?17:00
aelknernext issue?17:01
yvlfor some reason, I don't remember tabs in journal17:01
aelknerit has them17:02
yvlnext issue then17:02
aelkner2) using the extra-info slot of the z3c formlib macro for nexturl hidden variable17:02
th1aAh yes... where was this again?17:03
aelknerwhen the user goes from the section intervention view to a report sheet activity edit17:03
aelknerthe apply button navigates them back to the gradebook17:03
aelknerNOT the section interventions view17:03
aelknerthe only way to fix that would be to have a nexturl hidden field17:04
aelknerand have the section intervention view call the edit form with ?nexturl='section interventions view'17:04
Lumierewould cando's tabs need to be moved to the new css too (if so, document so we can do that in the future)17:04
aelknerunless anyone has a better idea17:04
th1aLumiere: I can include CanDo in the tab bug.17:05
Lumiereif you add a nexturl field17:05
Lumiereit needs to be parsed against a list of valid entries17:05
yvlfor an editform nexturl seems fine17:05
Lumiereor secured in some way (nexturl is a standard method of attack)17:05
aelknerLumiere: good point17:06
aelknerwe could use a key rather than an actual view url as the next url17:06
aelknerso the key, say "?nexturl=intervention" would result in going to the right place17:07
aelknerno nexturl setting results in going back to the gradebook17:07
aelknerhow does that sond?17:07
Lumieremuch better17:07
Lumierejust make it no/default -> gradebook17:08
Lumiereso ../../../../../../../../../etc/passwd -> gradebook17:08
yvlZope's traversal doesn't work that way :)17:09
LumiereI know it doesn't17:09
LumiereI am saying if not nexturl in possibleurls: nexturl = gradebook17:09
aelknerso you're agreeing with what i said17:10
LumiereI am just making sure it is not just *no* nexturl but also invalid nexturl17:10
yvlI'm not sure that we should implement it this way right now17:10
yvlthere are several other places with nexturl in SchoolTool17:11
* yvl votes for consistency - do it everywhere VS not doing at all17:11
aelknerright now nexturl is caliculated by the view class17:12
yvlI'd say keep the full nexturl17:13
yvljust keep it out of GET17:13
yvlhidden input is ok17:13
aelknerbut a link needs to use GET17:13
aelknerif i'm in one view with links on it17:14
aelknerthe links can't have POST info in them, can they?17:14
aelknerso what are you suggesting?17:14
yvlwell, you can write a traverser, if links look ok17:14
yvland have the edit.html return to parent17:15
aelknerthat sounds like a sledge hammer for a thumb tack17:17
yvlwell, the easiest thing to do would be adding the nexturl to the URL17:17
aelknerthat was the idea17:18
yvland then promising ourselves that we'll revisit this issue for the whole SchoolTool17:18
th1aIf we wrote that traverser would it be a general solution?17:18
aelknertraversers are never a genreral solution17:18
aelknerthey are a general pain maybe17:19
aelknerand to be used ONLY when absolutely necessary17:19
yvlcalendar and booking uses cancel, back, next urls17:19
th1aI vote for nexturl for now.17:20
th1aDo we already have a bug report for that?17:20
aelkneri don't think so17:21
yvlI think not17:21
aelknerthere is a third subject from my note, shall i move on to that?17:21
yvlplease do17:22
th1aCan you file that bug aelkner. (I'll do the tab bug)17:22
aelknerth1a: what should the bug say?17:22
aelknerthat we need a general solution to nexturl, using hidden fields in the extra0-info slot?17:23
aelkneri'm not sure what we agreed on here17:23
yvlaelkner: that passing back/next/cancel/etc. urls is not a good idea security-wise17:23
aelknerth1a: is that right?17:24
th1aI meant the particular bug you're fixing with nexturl.17:24
th1aThere are lots of "Agh, navigation is broken" bugs already.17:24
aelkneroh, let me check if i already added that bug17:24
aelknerok, i'll add a bug for the need to navigate back to the section interventions view17:27
aelknerok, third and last subject from my note17:27
aelkner3) setting up a cron job from within schooltool17:27
aelknerat the moment, SLA needs to manually set up a cron job17:28
aelknerthat does a CURL on a view that notifies users of goals coming due17:28
th1aThere is lovely.remotetask17:28
aelkneryvl: do you know anything about that?17:29
yvlsorry, no17:29
yvljust what I read on PyPI17:29
th1aone moment...17:29
th1aWe'll need this kind of functionality in several places in the near future, so adding the dependency seems worth it to me.17:31
aelknerthe dependency should definitely go in schooltool itself17:31
aelknerth1a: can you enter that bug?17:31
yvlumm, aelkner, I'm not sure about that17:32
th1aWell, if it doesn't now it will in a few months, I'd wager.17:32
yvlwe can add it then :)17:32
Lumiereremotetask would be good for sending mail or even authentication to external services17:32
yvlMy general policy of dependencies: add dependency when something depends on it17:33
th1aThat's fine.17:33
th1aDoes aelkner know what to do to add it as a dependency for schooltool.intervention?17:33
yvlmaybe sla deb is sufficient?17:34
aelkneradding a line to is easy enough17:34
yvlor everybody that uses schooltool.intervention will always need to set up cron jobs?17:34
aelknerbut should this be solved only in schooltool.intervention?17:34
th1aThis is a schooltool.interventions feature.17:35
th1aIt may later become a more general SchoolTool feature.17:35
yvlIn risk of sounding too defensive...17:36
yvlwhat exactly requires this dependency?17:36
yvli.e. what cron jobs do you have in mind?17:37
aelkneri described that above17:38
aelknerthe notifyGoals.html view17:38
th1aIt sends out regular reminders.17:38
aelkneronce a day17:38
th1aSay, 1 day before a goal is due.17:38
aelkneractually, on the day itself17:39
th1aNote that doing it inside Zope you probably won't need that curl.17:39
aelknerit shoots an email to all responsible for the goal that comes due17:39
aelknerwe definitely wouldn't need the curl17:39
th1aWe can hold off on this if you want to think about options for a week, yvl.17:40
aelknerbecause it wouldn't be a crom job anymore17:40
yvlthanks, th1a17:40
aelknerbut a loverly-task instead17:40
th1aThere are plenty of other things to do in the meantime.17:40
aelknerlovely.remotetask, that is17:40
aelkneryou could add it as Medium priority17:40
aelknerth1a: i added the nexturl bug and assigned it to myself17:41
th1aOK.  yvl, tell menesis that I'm ready to push the new landing page this week.17:42
yvlwill do.17:42
th1aaelkner: Do you know what you're working on first?17:43
aelkneri was going to ask you to set priorities to Critical for those tasks you wanted me to do first17:43
th1aUm... it may take me a day to re-digest everything we talked about on Monday.17:45
th1aCan you pick something to work on today?17:45
aelkneri can just pick them myself in the meantime17:45
th1aGood then.17:46
aelkneri'm only working today and tomoroww17:46
th1aOh, that's right.17:46
aelknerthen i'm off to Maine17:46
th1aJust pick some thing(s) that you can get done in that time.17:46
th1aPick something to work on at the beach.  ;-)17:46
th1aOK then, I guess that's it.17:47
th1aHave a great week and a great vacation, aelkner!17:47
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:47
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th1ajelkner: Where in the world are you now?21:48
jelknersan miguel, el salvador21:51
jelknerwhere it is *hot*!21:51
jelknerthis has been an awesome trip21:51
jelknerpublic schools in el salvador are about to begin a migration from windo$ to ubuntu21:52
jelkneri got to talk to someone from the ministry of culture as well21:52
jelknerthey want to put free software in their cultural centers around the country21:53
jelkneri got to hang out with replaceafill too21:53
jelknera great trip!21:53
th1aWhat's replaceafill's status now?21:57
jelknerth1a: i've got to run to lunch21:59
jelknerhe had numonia21:59
jelknerbut he is better now21:59
jelknerthey finally diagnosed the problem correctly21:59
jelknerso he got the proper treatment22:00
jelknerhe just finished dave's user stories22:00
th1aIs he working for you now?22:00
th1aIs he available?22:00
jelknerhe is available22:00
jelknerand eager22:00
th1aI have a quick job for him then.22:00
th1aI just sent him an email.22:00
jelknerhe is working with me as a volunteer in this free software project22:00
jelknerbb after lunch then22:01
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th1ahey replaceafill.22:34
replaceafillhey th1a22:35
replaceafilli'm up for the task22:35
th1aGet started then.22:35
replaceafilland have LOTS of free time :)22:35
replaceafillcan i ask questions to chris?22:35
th1aOf course.22:35
th1aDo you understand the basic idea?22:36
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th1aHe's got some little app he's working on to propogate the same info to all the systems.22:36
replaceafilli think so, create xmlrcp view that allow those tasks, right?22:36
th1aIn theory, it is quick.22:37
replaceafilland yes, we will need that for the moodle-schooltool integration22:37
th1aIt is the 20% of the work that will do 80% of the work in the Moodle integration.22:37
th1a80% of the results.22:38
replaceafilli have done some experiments and they worked22:38
replaceafillmy only concern is about getting the right permissions in the xmlrpc request22:38
replaceafilli mean, to tests things i always call my views like user:pass@url22:39
replaceafillwhere user and pass are schooltool valid credentials22:39
th1aWe were wondering about that.22:41
Lumiereyou'll have to authenticate somehow22:53
Lumiereand saving authentication details on far end systems is bad (especially saving administrator or some other sort of actual user info22:53
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th1aLumiere: It isn't really different than whatever you normally do over http.23:20
Lumiereth1a: it just adds a method of attack23:26
th1aThe client app isn't our concern at this point anyhow.23:27
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