IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-07-20

*** ignas has quit IRC01:27
*** aelkner has quit IRC02:40
*** ignas has joined #schooltool07:43
*** aelkner has joined #schooltool08:01
*** ignas has quit IRC08:04
*** yvl has joined #schooltool09:41
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool10:30
*** yvl has quit IRC10:39
*** ignas has joined #schooltool14:17
*** Aiste has quit IRC14:41
*** menesis has joined #schooltool14:47
Lumieremenesis: how's the dpkg work coming?16:17
menesisLumiere: i'm doing that only today16:18
Lumieremenesis: I need to have a test copy today16:25
Lumiereis there anything I need to be doing on it?16:25
menesisLumiere: I know. sorry I was away since Friday16:26
Lumiereno problem... I was at a conference most of last week anyways16:26
Lumieremenesis: you were talking monday last week16:27
menesisLumiere: are you ok with version number 2007dev?.. that's kind of old.16:27
Lumiereabout things I needed to look at?16:27
Lumieremenesis: is 2009.08.01 > 2009.08dev ?16:28
Lumieremenesis: is 2009.08.01 > ?16:28
menesisyes, both. setuptools knows about "dev" suffix and treats it as lower version16:29
*** th1a has joined #schooltool16:30
*** yvl has joined #schooltool16:30
Lumieremenesis: I am also asking about dpkg version16:30
yvlhi guys16:30
Lumiereif we did dev/beta would that be lower to dpkg16:30
Lumierethen the final version number16:30
Lumierehi yvl, th1a16:30
Lumiere09:30:00 -!- th1a [n=hoffman@] has joined #schooltool (nice timing th1a)16:31
th1aGood morning Lumiere, yvl, aelkner, menesis.16:31
aelknergood morning16:31
th1aI guess you guys are already talking about packaging?16:32
Lumierehi aelkner16:32
menesisLumiere: I'll take care of that. actually the tools we use do16:32
menesishello th1a16:32
th1aYou guys can keep going a while as far as I'm concerned.16:32
th1aGetting that done is top priority.16:33
Lumieremenesis: works for me16:33
Lumieremenesis: I am making 1 change to the setup.py16:33
Lumiereto change maintainer from cando@schooltool.org16:34
Lumiereto (google app <3)16:34
Lumieremenesis: is there a way to add a contributors list to the (or do I need to make an AUTHORS)16:34
menesisLumiere: don't know. schooltool does not list authors anywhere I looked.16:38
Lumiereth1a: we need to fix that16:38
menesisand they go only to copyright file in the deb. anyways can do that later16:38
th1aIt is listed on the about page.16:39
th1aIn SchoolTool.16:39
Lumiereth1a: k16:39
Lumieremenesis: 09:39:57 jstraw@shipon:~/compile/cando/trunk 14$ svn ci setup.py16:40
Lumieresvn: Commit failed (details follow):16:40
Lumieresvn: Can't create directory '/var/svn/cando/db/transactions/1590-1.txn': Permission denied16:40
menesisLumiere: fixed. try again16:44
Lumieresame error16:45
th1aOK, I guess we should start the actual meeting.  I'm ok with mixing the two conversations, but you guys can get a room if you prefer.16:46
Lumiereumask issue?16:46
LumiereI think we're pretty much done16:46
th1aSo what's the status then?  How far along are we?16:47
Lumiereth1a: menesis is planning to work today on it16:48
Lumiere(I am assuming he is looking at my svn issue atm)16:48
th1amenesis: How close are we?16:49
menesisth1a: cando has some dependencies which are different that schooltool. so it's more work than anticipated16:51
menesisI have the two cando packages but they are not installable because of that16:51
th1aWhat's your time estimate?16:51
Lumieremenesis: it should just have a couple additionals (let me know what they are)16:51
LumiereI want to know who added deps16:51
th1aLumiere grabs his hammer.16:51
LumiereI would if I were at acc16:52
menesisth1a: today. 2-3 hours16:54
th1aOK, thanks menesis!16:55
th1aMoving on...16:55
th1ayvl, how are you doing?16:55
yvlwell, first on the little thing16:55
yvlI looked at grokked branches16:55
yvlthey look quite good, and I think we can merge them at some point16:56
yvlbut the code already changed, so it won't be a blind merge16:56
yvland that will not happen instantly16:56
yvlthere are few possible issues I'd like to think about before merging16:57
* Lumiere will need aelkner and replaceafill to look at something in a few minutes :)16:57
yvlso I'd like to push it into the future16:57
yvlbut not too distant16:57
yvlso that the code won't change drastically16:57
yvlthats it on this issue16:57
yvlmoving on16:58
yvlNavbar screams for redoing16:58
yvland that is related to security16:58
yvlif we list what user can do to a course16:58
yvlit is much more obvious if actionbar actions are grouped:16:59
yvlCourse: View, Edit;  Something other:  Action, Action16:59
yvland I want to tightly relate action bar grouping with security17:00
yvlto reduce risk to forget to update something17:00
yvl(my language is awful today :|)17:00
th1anp  ;-)17:00
yvlbut action bar remake raises some issues:17:00
th1aMy Lithuanian is even worse today.17:00
Lumiere( yvl: we all have days... even those of us who speak the language as a first language )17:00
yvlfor example, CanDo has modified the action bar17:01
yvland I don't want to step on their toes17:01
yvl but it looks solvable17:01
yvlanyway - navbar changes can be postponed17:01
yvlit's just that if we want grouping in actionbar17:01
yvl(actionbar == navbar in my vocabulary :|)17:02
Lumiereyvl: at some level, we should make a standard action bar17:02
Lumieremy guess is that some of your changes17:02
yvlI need to keep it in mind when doing "access control documentation", or whatever we call that17:02
Lumierewould allow cando to remove some of the modification17:02
yvlmay be, but I didn't look closely enough17:03
yvlbrowsing through viewlet registrations is a bit mind-twisting17:03
yvloh, and old-style menu items that we still use for some reason17:04
th1aWell, once we've got SchoolTool security cleaned up a little, it will be time for CanDo to do the same.17:04
yvlok, moving on to security17:04
yvlCanDo uses crowds a bit differently from SchoolTool in few places17:04
yvlnamely, methods like isStudent17:05
yvlthat checks participation in several crowds17:05
yvland that check is used for the views17:05
yvlSchoolTool crowds from now on will strictly mean object access permissions17:06
yvlat least if you want the access control records to appear in "access control documentation" page17:07
yvlpeople can do changes, or view information of a Group, for example17:07
yvland we don't care what views are built on that group17:07
yvlthere are things like:  display something something in message forum if the person is a Teacher17:08
yvlbut that's done in a view17:08
yvland we can't automate resolving of this type of permissions easily17:09
th1aI think I'm following you.17:09
yvlbut I'll let the code speak for itself later on17:09
th1aWhat's done at the model level is more important anyhow.17:09
yvlbasically, you allow schooltool.edit permission for some of the crowds for, say, a Group17:10
th1aSo will this require changes in CanDo?17:10
yvlmaybe :|17:10
yvlmost likely - little changes17:11
th1aThat's fine.  They just can't lose significant functionality.17:11
yvleven more likely - no changes, if:17:11
yvlit is not a problem that some of more custom access control is not described / controlled centrally in SchoolTool view(s)17:12
yvlthere are also some specific cases in SchoolTool itself17:12
yvland Gradebook17:12
yvlsome permissions "fall through", like Worksheets that are basically Requirements.17:13
th1aEssentially, if views limit access a bit *more* than the model indicates, that's not a security problem.17:13
th1aPossibly a usability bug at times, but erring in that direction isn't so bad.17:13
yvlthe thing is that in the Worksheet case17:13
yvlthe user will see:  theese people can edit Requirements17:14
yvland not a word about Worksheets17:14
yvlit is not that big of an issue17:14
yvljust that we'll need to look for such cases17:15
th1aAnd only an issue as long as we don't explicitly set permissions on worksheets?17:15
yvland register descriptions17:15
yvlthey are set17:15
yvlas they fall through from Requirement17:15
yvlbecause Worksheet inherits Requirement17:15
th1aRight, but we could explicitly define them?17:15
yvland I didn't think of a way to automatically detect that yet17:15
yvlI'm just saying that we'll have to go through the system manually17:16
yvland look for places that are not clear17:16
yvlthat, of course, means that we'll need to keep an eye open when adding new features17:16
th1aSo how far along are you with that now?  Almost ready to start writing code?17:17
yvlas the system will not alert us that security descriptions / control is missin in some cases17:17
yvlexactly :)17:17
yvlmy goal is to have something at least half-working (with rough edges) this week17:17
yvlin a branch17:17
yvlso you can look and evaluate it17:17
yvlI feel that feedback is essential in this case17:18
yvlthat's it for my report today :)17:18
Lumierelemme hop in while I am here :)17:18
yvlplease do17:19
LumiereI need yvl / aelkner  / replaceafill to look over cando17:19
Lumiereto look to see if we're still using z3c.formjs  z3c.layer z3c.pagelet z3c.testing z3c.viewlet  z3c.zrtresource17:19
Lumiere(breadcrumb was listed, but isn't in use anymore)17:19
Lumierethose are the additional packages that cando is using that schooltool is not17:20
Lumiereif we can get rid of some of them, it would be good17:20
th1aYou mean, like, now?17:20
th1athanks yvl.17:20
yvlmenesis, can I dump this one on you? :)17:20
yvlI know you won't be thrilled, but...17:21
th1aOr aelkner?17:21
Lumiereyvl: menesis is looking at it17:21
Lumierebut I wanted to ask the people who worked on it last17:21
Lumiereif they knew something that had been removed17:21
aelkneri know that the newskin views depend on the z3c stuff17:22
Lumiereaelkner: all of em?17:22
aelknerthat's what stephan did for us at the New Hampshire sprint17:22
yvlsorry, Lumiere, don't remember removing any of those dependencies.17:22
menesisLumiere: I am packaging them. and I see they are used.17:22
Lumiereyvl: thx17:22
Lumieremenesis: ok17:22
menesisz3c.testing is also not used17:22
Lumieremenesis: good to hear... I was going to ask about that17:22
* Lumiere wonders if cando's could be simplified by just requiring cando+our additional needs17:24
aelknerLumiere: what we called the "Go" views use z3c17:24
Lumiereaelkner: I know17:24
LumiereI dislike that srichter added a bunch of deps to do it17:25
aelknerhis thinking was to encourage us to get away from formlib and towards using z3c17:25
aelknerunfortunately, that means depending on both17:25
aelknerLumiere: we have been moving in that direction as it turns out17:26
th1aaelkner, would you like to make your report?17:26
aelknerso there's no way we would ever remove that dependency17:26
aelknerth1a: i thought you'd never ask :)17:26
aelknerI'm happy to report that the migration went off extremely well17:27
aelknerSLA's db no longer has intervention demos or narratives17:27
aelknerthese have been replaced with schooltool demos and report sheets17:27
aelkneri haven't removed the actual code for the objects yet, but, I will do so this week17:28
aelknerThe intervention search and student views have a pulldown for school year17:28
aelknerthat allows the user to look at interventions for previous years17:29
aelknerLehman will be happy about that one17:29
aelknerI block the user from adding messages or goals to previous years17:29
aelknerI figure that history is just for history17:29
aelknerbut anyway, it's nice to not have to worry about two divergent code bases anymore17:30
yvlprevious SchoolYears are for archival purposes only17:30
yvlor at least they are intended to be17:30
aelknerthat's what I figured17:31
th1aWell, it is certainly still relevant.17:32
aelknerfor viewing, yes17:32
th1aIf you had meetings about the same issue in each of the previous three years, that's important.  ;-)17:32
aelknerbut, definitely, they will want to be able to look up the history of problems a student may have caused17:32
th1aSo the interventions code is up to date?17:33
aelknerso, I have the following loose ends17:33
aelknerthe section interventions view needs to be fized to keep the links relevant there17:33
aelkner2) I need to move the narrative report PDF views to schooltool.gradebook17:34
aelknerwith many changes, of course17:34
aelknerI'll look over the code and send an email with issues that I uncover17:34
yvlaelkner, there's a possible task for PDF reports (in the future)17:35
yvlit would help if you ported the PDF code to RML17:35
aelknerthat would be agood idea17:35
aelknerthat could be part of what i do, sure17:35
yvlno visual redesign, just the code underneath17:36
yvland add the rml templates17:36
aelknercan you point me to an example in schooltool?17:36
th1aThen *I* can do the visual redesign.  :-)17:36
aelkneryeah :)17:36
aelkneryvl: is there any RML use in schooltool?17:37
yvlthat would be most welcome th1a17:37
yvlvery basic usage, but should be enough to get started17:37
aelknercool, thanks17:37
yvland templates/ there17:38
aelknerlast issue to report is a bug I uncovered when I hit the column lnk of an activity with comments scoresystem17:38
aelknerso i'll look into that as well this week17:38
aelknerNext monday17:38
aelknerI'd like to discuss creating the schooltool.intervention egg17:39
aelkneri'll prepare the existing egg for that during the week this week17:39
aelkneroh, and we will need to discuss installation issues at that time17:40
th1aWhat kind of issues?17:40
aelknerlike the steps that are needed to get the cas and mail delivery set up17:40
th1aWell, I think the basic idea is that we need configuration screens.17:41
aelkneryeah, i was thinking the same17:41
th1aI don't want to make it auto-magic apt-get sendmail stuff.17:41
aelknerwe should have a utility in schooltool for email server17:41
aelknerbut we can begin that discussion next week17:42
aelknerth1a: I saw you added some more gradebook bugs17:42
aelknerso I can look into those this week as well17:42
th1aYeah.  When I went through report sheets.17:42
aelknerAnd I'd like to comment on your docs when I have the chance as well17:43
th1aGo ahead.17:43
aelknerI don't have anyting prepared for this moment17:43
Lumiere+1 to schooltool having a generic email utility17:43
aelkneri was saying, I'll set aside time for running through them17:43
aelknerand email you comments about them17:43
th1aI guess we're done then?17:44
aelknerwhat's yoru release ETA?17:44
aelknerthe help17:44
th1aI push the changes to the website as I write them.17:44
aelkneroh, ok17:44
aelknernever mind17:44
aelkneri'll let know what I think when I get the chance17:44
aelknerthat's it for me17:44
th1aI guess we're done then.17:45
yvlaelkner, P.S.: schooltool/skin/templates/ may be also interesting to you.  They're similar to other view macros in SchoolTool17:45
th1aThank you gentlemen.  Have a great week.17:45
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:45
aelkneryou too, th1a17:45
yvlA great week for you all!17:45
aelkneryvl: thanks.  i'll look at that, too17:45
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool17:54
*** dlobo has quit IRC18:12
*** ignas has quit IRC18:34
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool18:44
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool18:47
*** dlobo has quit IRC19:02
*** fsufitch has joined #schooltool19:15
fsufitchyvl, ping19:15
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool19:52
*** pcardune has joined #schooltool19:57
*** dlobo has quit IRC20:11
th1aHey pcardune!20:19
pcarduneth1a: howdy20:19
pcarduneth1a: how's schooltool going?20:19
th1aIt is going pretty well.  How are you?20:19
pcardunepretty good, I am at OSCON right now20:20
th1aAh.  Nice.20:20
th1aCanDo will be deployed in five counties in VA this fall.20:20
pcardunesuper cool20:20
pcarduneI guess I never rejoined the mailing lists on launchpad20:21
th1aYeah.  Mailman was crufty as hell.20:21
fsufitchoh hi, pcardune, th1a20:25
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool20:25
pcardunehey fsufitch, how's summer going?20:26
fsufitchbunch of coding and learning a ton20:26
fsufitchbut also wasting a lot of time and plain chilling20:26
fsufitchso, pretty well :)20:26
pcardunefsufitch: just the way it should be20:26
fsufitchright now im actually working on one of the cando blueprints20:27
fsufitchand, th1a, do you know anything of replaceafill's progress to get cando using schooltool 2009.04?20:27
fsufitchi sort of need the PDF report stuff in 2009.04 in cando...20:27
th1aI was under the impression he was done with it.20:28
fsufitchLumiere said he's putting the finishing touches on it, but didnt know more detail than that20:29
fsufitch(he = replaceafill)20:30
fsufitchbut whether he's done or not, he hasnt updated the cando trunk repo20:31
fsufitchjuuuust found a bug in cando <_<20:42
pcardunewhen is schooltool going to have facebook integration :)?20:45
* pcardune is at the open, social web tutorial20:45
th1aWhen someone pays pcardune to implement it.20:46
fsufitchschooltool having facebook integration scares me20:47
th1aWouldn't you like automated homework reminders on your Facebook page?20:48
*** dlobo has quit IRC20:50
fsufitchth1a, that's what scares me20:56
fsufitchif i want homework, i log on to schooltool :-P20:56
fsufitchif i'm on facebook, it means i either a) have no homework or b) am trying to pretend that (a) is true20:56
fsufitchstill, nothing forces me to add the schooltool facebook app20:57
fsufitchso, for those to whom that's convenient, that's cool20:57
th1aI'm just teasing you.21:01
pcardunewhat if you could block facebook access until they finished their homework?21:02
pcarduneor a graph that shows who is doing better in the class among your friends21:02
fsufitcha part of me is saying "wow cool" and a part of me is saying "aaargh!! it burnsss!!"21:07
fsufitchth1a, i went as far as i could with but i can't really do much more because doesn't exist in cando21:25
fsufitchim gonna go away for a bit, but if you see replaceafill could you tell him to send me a diff so i can update cando?21:25
*** fsufitch changes topic to "SchoolTool development | SchoolTool 1.0 has been released! | IRC logs at | SchoolTool Dev meetings Mon, 13:30 UTC (15:30 EET, 9:30 EST) | Use for pasting | Write more unit and functional tests! Yes, you! | Build Status:"21:26
fsufitchand i removed the tjTalk thing :-P21:26
Lumierehi pcardune21:31
* Lumiere is sitting in a GASP class with jelkner21:31
pcardunehi Lumiere21:31
fsufitchhey Lumiere21:32
fsufitchyum, Bawls21:33
*** pcardune has quit IRC22:01
*** mgedmin has quit IRC22:04
*** pcardune has joined #schooltool23:29
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool23:38
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool23:48
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool23:52
Lumierereplaceafill: hi23:54
replaceafillhey Lumiere23:54
Lumierejelkner: faillllll :)23:54
Lumierereplaceafill: how is the 2009.04 transition going'23:54
replaceafillone user story remaining23:55
Lumierefsufitch is trying to get started23:55
replaceafillthe one to update competencies23:55
Lumiereand needs 2009.04 to do it23:55
Lumierecan you commit the upgrade to schooltool's 2009.04 branch before doing update competencies?23:55
replaceafillyes, but i have my diff at home, i'll do it when i get back23:56
replaceafillfsufitch, do you just need 2009.04?23:57
fsufitchi need cando to be using schooltool 2009.0423:57
replaceafilli guess the testing instance has an old diff that you could use23:57
fsufitchbecause i need
replaceafilllet me see23:57
replaceafillLumiere, does fsufitch have access to the testing instance server?23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!