IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-06-08

*** jeiworth has joined #schooltool00:59
*** aelkner has quit IRC01:25
*** jelkner has quit IRC01:52
*** ignas has joined #schooltool03:56
*** alga has quit IRC04:24
*** ignas has quit IRC05:26
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool09:21
*** Aiste has quit IRC09:50
*** ignas has joined #schooltool11:18
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool12:33
*** menesis has joined #schooltool13:23
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool14:53
*** ignas has quit IRC15:19
*** lisppaste5 has quit IRC15:19
*** alga has quit IRC15:19
*** jeiworth has quit IRC15:19
*** spowers has quit IRC15:19
*** _Kuba has quit IRC15:19
*** mgedmin has quit IRC15:19
*** menesis has quit IRC15:19
*** krushik has quit IRC15:19
*** Lumiere has quit IRC15:19
*** povbot has joined #schooltool15:20
*** moquist has quit IRC15:21
*** povbot` has quit IRC15:21
*** moquist has joined #schooltool15:21
*** povbot` has joined #schooltool15:21
*** povbot` has quit IRC15:21
*** yvl has joined #schooltool15:26
*** moquist has quit IRC15:33
*** moquist has joined #schooltool15:33
*** moquist has quit IRC15:46
*** moquist has joined #schooltool15:47
*** krushik has quit IRC16:02
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool16:07
*** moquist has quit IRC16:08
*** moquist has joined #schooltool16:08
*** moquist has quit IRC16:10
*** th1a has joined #schooltool16:11
*** jeiworth has quit IRC16:15
*** aelkner has joined #schooltool16:27
Lumierehi th1a16:28
th1aHi Lumiere.16:29
* th1a will brb.16:29
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool16:31
th1ahi yvl, jelkner, aelkner, menesis.16:32
jelknergood morning!16:32
yvlhi guys16:33
th1aHm... replaceafill has all the news to report this week and is not here.16:33
*** jeiworth has joined #schooltool16:33
th1aLet's see...16:33
th1alast Friday I had a long meeting with moquist and brent in Cambridge, with replaceafill and Joe in Escondido on Skype.16:34
th1aDiscussing Moodle integration.16:34
th1aI had my mind expanded by the ways of virtual schools.16:34
* jelkner listens intently...16:35
th1amoquist works at one in New Hampshire and ultimately wants to use SchoolTool there,16:35
th1aand the charter school in Escondido is sounding more and more like primarily a virtual school.16:35
th1aLuckily we managed to make the first part of this grant a "planning" grant because I think it is going to take a month just to figure out how this school actually is organized.16:36
th1aIt is very confusing.16:36
th1aAnyhow, everything went smoothly until we realized how little a virtual school cares about the passage of time.16:37
th1aSo we're trying to assimilate how this works.16:37
th1aWe're having another meeting on Friday.16:38
th1aRight now I'm leaning toward not trying to stuff Moodle courses into SchoolTool sections.16:38
* yvl eagerly awaits for more details...16:39
th1aThey're just too different.16:39
aelknerme, too16:39
th1aFor example, a Moodle course can just go on forever, with people joining and leaving.16:39
jelknerbut it does'nt have to16:39
Lumiereth1a: I think we stuff a schooltool section into a moodle course16:40
Lumierewhere the courses get their start/end from schooltool16:40
th1aThe problem is schools that don't fundamentally map back to a traditional school schedule.16:40
th1aThe Moodle course doesn't correspond to a regular section at all.16:41
th1aMaybe we'll need to allow two ways of doing it.16:41
th1aOTOH, I've been thinking that perhaps Moodle would just swallow up all our SIS functionality and put SchoolTool out of business,16:42
th1aand I can see now that that will never happen.16:42
jelknerthey are fundamentally different animals16:42
th1aThe organization of LMS's makes no sense to me.16:43
aelknerLMS?   what's that?16:43
yvlLearning Management System? :|16:44
th1aMoodle is an LMS.16:45
aelkneras opposed to a SIS16:45
jelknerI've been calling it a CMS16:45
th1aSame thing.16:45
jelknerCourse Management System16:45
th1aCourse Management System.16:45
th1aNot to be confused with Content Management System.16:46
jelkneryes, except that what it fundamentally deals with is courses16:46
jelknerwhether that entails learning is another matter ;-)16:46
th1aBrent is starting on WSGI middleware to handle all the non-standard XML-RPC bits that mnet requires.16:46
th1aSo we can just write XML-RPC SchoolTool code.16:47
th1aTo talk to Moodle.16:47
jelknerAre we going to be able to use the Moodle gradebook?16:47
th1areplaceafill did a little prototyping with that and apparently has a patch to zope.publisher to deal with an XML-RPC bug.16:47
th1ajelkner: In some fashion.16:48
jelknerthat is of fundamental concern to me16:48
jelknersince our summer planning begins in a week16:48
th1aWe need to nail down exactly what Escondido needs it to do.16:48
jelknerand i'm trying to get a sense of what next year looks like technologically16:48
th1aThey have a hybrid design which we still don't really understand.16:49
th1aIn the medium term drawing Moodle gradebook grades into the regular SchoolTool gradebook as external activities won't be hard once we've got the basic interoperability story working.16:50
th1aOne internal SchoolTool detail to consider is that we're probably going to have to store UUID's for all the objects we're sharing with Moodle.16:51
aelknerwhat about IniIds?16:53
yvlumm, IntIds are a different thing16:53
*** menesis has quit IRC16:54
aelknerunique numbers that identify an object, right?16:54
*** menesis has joined #schooltool16:54
yvlwe need UUID of Moodle object rather than internal ZODB id16:54
th1aWe need a shared ID that is not dependent on the internal database representation of either.16:55
aelkneri see16:55
th1aAnyhow, work on that is ongoing.16:55
th1athat = Moodle integration in general.16:56
yvlmy god, you need to log in to look at forums...16:56
th1aI hate that shit.16:56
th1aDrives me nuts.16:56
* th1a waits for Lumiere to scold him for language.16:56
th1aWe got an inquiry last Wednesday from South Africa about including SchoolTool in a grant, due Friday of course.16:57
th1areplaceafill and I worked up an estimate, but I haven't heard yet where that was left.16:57
th1areplaceafill talked to them on Friday.16:57
th1aBasically, the grant is to scale up an after-school program, so it would allow the organization to get everything they're keeping in piles of spreadsheets into SchoolTool and distribute that to new sites trying to implement their model.16:58
th1aWe ended up estimating it at about six weeks work for replaceafill.16:59
th1aMoving on...16:59
th1ayvl, how are you doing?16:59
yvlgood, thank you :)17:00
yvltook two days off last week17:00
yvland now I'm completely moved in into the new apartment17:00
yvlmore seriously though...17:01
yvllooked at zc.relationships and schooltool.relationships17:01
yvlas a result of working on contact relationships17:01
yvlwe'll need either to clean-up, extend and eventually index schooltool.relationships17:02
yvlor move to zc.relationships17:02
th1aIs zc.relationships related to schooltool.relationships?17:02
yvlchatted with Ignas today, he seems to be of a similar opinion17:02
yvlbut both are designed to specify a relationship between two objects17:03
th1aDo you know who wrote zc.relationships?17:03
yvl#  Package Index Owner:  gary, zvezdan, optilude17:04
yvlI know Gary worked for ZopeCorp17:04
yvland that's it17:04
ignasGary did it17:04
th1aI was just wondering because srichter "re-wrote" a few things from SchoolTool for Zope core.17:04
th1aI gather.17:04
yvlno, this this not the case17:05
ignasnope, i thought it was srichter who did it, but was proven wrong by svn annotate17:05
th1aWhat's the immedate issue with contacts and relationships?17:05
yvlI need a place to store relationship type "parent, guardian, etc." on a relationship17:06
yvlthat is kind of implemented now in schooltool.relationships17:06
yvland I'll use that17:06
yvlbut the API.... is just awful17:06
th1aDoes zc.relationships do indexing?17:07
yvlwill do this time, and speed should not matter17:07
yvland complex queries17:07
yvland a lot of shiny powerful stuff17:07
yvland, of course, it's not the most convenient thing to use17:07
th1aHow hard would the switch be?17:08
yvlI could prototype it in 1-2 days17:08
yvlbut the full switch would take something like a week17:09
th1aWe're not going to do that now, but I'll file a bug and we can try to do it before the next release.17:09
th1aWe'll definitely do it this calendar year.17:09
yvlgreat, thanks17:10
th1aWhat are you planning on working on this week?17:10
yvlas for the plans for this week...17:10
yvlI'd like to squish as many medium priority bugs as I can17:11
th1aWe're on the same wavelength.17:11
yvlmaybe continue that for another week17:11
yvlso when the bug tracker is cleaned up a bit I could start doing other things17:12
yvllike API documentation, plug-ins and everything else in that direction17:13
yvlso that's it from me today :)17:13
menesislast week was a bugfix release17:14
menesisof schooltool only17:14
menesisthen I did some admin work on schooltool.org17:14
menesisbuildbot was broken for a week17:15
menesisbecause of upgraded buildbot package. fixed that17:15
menesisremove 2008.04 branch from buildbot17:15
menesisremoved gutsy packages from PPA17:15
menesisinstalled postgrey on for incoming email greylisting17:16
menesisthis decreased the load of a server to almost nothing17:16
th1aDo you want to set aside some time, say, next Wednesday to turn more stuff off?17:16
th1aLike Plone and Mailman?17:17
menesisand fixed all buildbots to become green.17:17
menesisI do not have any commitments for this or next week, yet17:18
menesisso maybe17:18
menesisas for mailman, it serves mailing list archives. and cando, cando-checkins and checkins are still used. Or maybe not?17:18
th1aI need to try to focus on documentation this week... had too many distractions last week.  Good distractions though.17:19
th1aLet's export static archives and turn it off.17:19
menesisand plone - do you have a replacement static page ready?17:19
th1aSince CanDo is moving to bzr anyhow.17:19
th1aI still have to write that... thus "next Wednesday."17:19
menesisok I don't think that's high priority17:20
menesisthat's all from me I think17:20
aelknerso last week, i created the generations package for schooltool.gradebook17:21
aelknerand i moved the three hard-coded discreet score systems to the site manager in the first evolve script17:21
aelknernow the user will see these three score systems in the score systems overview17:22
aelknerand be able to view one of them to see the table of scores17:22
aelkneri helped jelkner out this weekend (not on calculating scores)17:23
aelknerbut it was important for him to not have the column preferences applied to the first three quarters17:23
aelknerso i patched his instance to ignore them for those quarters17:23
aelknerthis allows him to show the correct grades to teachers17:24
aelkneri mean partents17:24
aelknerhe will calculate final grades himself17:24
aelkneranyway, i also addressed the bug about no current term17:25
aelknerand created an error page in that case instead of having it crash when the user requests a report card17:25
aelkneryvl, menesis: what's the status on my merge request?17:25
aelkneri snuck in the no current term bug fix into the same branch AFTER making the merge request17:26
aelknerbecause i t seems that the merge has not been made yet17:26
aelkneris there any plan to do the merge soon?17:27
menesisaelkner: bug 379968? what is the branch?17:27
aelknersame one17:27
aelknerhave you already done the other merge?17:27
aelknernot having been notified as to any merge being done, i didn't want to create a new branch for the bug fix17:28
th1aYou should make a separate branch.17:28
yvlhmm, launchpad says: This branch has not been mirrored, as Launchpad has been unable to access it.17:28
yvlcould you please create a branch directly on Launchpad next time?17:29
aelknerwhen i registered the branch, i used the bzr+ssh url17:29
menesishm. are merge requests posted somewhere? because I don't receive anything. and don't get any checkins, are they emailed anywhere?17:29
aelkneri should have used the staging url, i think17:29
* th1a is in favor of doing these directly on Launchpad.17:30
yvlemm, the one like
yvl bzr push lp:~aelkner/schooltool/schooltool.gradebook_bugfix_XXXXXx17:30
aelknerhere's the branch:17:31
yvlmenesis: here, I gues...
aelknermenesis: so can you merge that branch for me?17:32
yvlaelkner, you're the only one who can check out this branch via this url17:33
yvlwe have to remember the other path17:33
yvlhence the request to push everything to Launchpad :)17:33
aelknerthere's always a corresponding staging url17:33
aelknerdoes that help?17:34
th1aLet's just move these to Launchpad.17:34
aelknerwhat would that entail?17:36
yvlnothing to you17:36
yvleasier access to us17:36
th1aYou have a user repository on Launchpad.17:37
aelknerdo i need to push my branch to a new url?17:37
yvlbzr push lp:~aelkner/schooltool/schooltool.gradebook_bugfix_XXXXXx17:37
menesisfor branches on you can mirror them on launchpad, and push new branches only to launchpad (hosted branch)17:38
th1aDon't worry about the old ones.17:38
yvlby the way, Alan, can you notify me when you want to merge the gradebook evolution script?17:39
th1aWe're not making your life more difficult aelkner.  ;-)17:39
yvlI'll want to tinker with it, most likely17:39
aelknerth1a: you don't need to anticipate me objecting to that17:40
aelkneri just need to know exactly what i need to do17:40
aelknerso, i push my branch to lp:~aelkner/schooltool/schooltool.gradebook_whatever_i_call_it17:41
*** jelkner has quit IRC17:41
aelknerthen i register it17:41
yvlyou just push it17:42
yvllaunchpad does the rest17:42
yvlthat's the beauty of it :)17:42
aelkneri was under the impression that i always needed to register branches17:42
aelknerthat's what ignas asked us to do a while back17:42
aelknerso has that changed?17:43
th1aThat's what we're saying.17:43
th1aIt is probably because bzr on Launchpad didn't work so well at first.17:43
aelkneri see17:43
yvlyou still have to register _external_ branches (say, hosted on
yvlbut if you push directly to Launchpad, you do not need to worry about that anymore17:44
aelknerwhy would i want to use if i can push directly to Launchpad?17:44
yvland you can even use:       bzr ci --fixes lp:34447317:44
yvland that links your branch with the bug in launchpad17:44
yvlno, not anymore17:44
menesisyou don't need to use repository at all.17:44
menesisalthough the main branches are hosted on schooltool.org17:45
menesisbut that does not matter, can branch from either location17:45
ignasaelkner: you used to want to do that before, because else you would have had to wait for 70mb to upload, now launchpad has improved a lot17:46
ignasaelkner: so you don't need to use our repo17:46
aelknerso that sounds like good new to me17:46
yvlgood point menesis.  aelkner, you'll want to branch from
aelknernot lp:~schooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool.gradebook/17:47
yvlsorry, yes, lp:~schooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool.gradebook/17:47
menesisthat's the same17:47
aelknerok, cool17:48
yvlthe other link I gave you is a web page17:48
aelknersounds simpler17:48
yvlit is :)17:48
menesislp: is an alias for bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net17:48
aelknerafter i push to lp, can i use the lp UI to request the merge17:48
yvland please do! :)17:49
aelknerok, so i'll do that after the meeting17:49
aelkneras far as this week goes, i have the following on my plate:17:49
aelkneri'll be addressing SLA's use of schooltool17:49
aelknergetting them to use the new demographics system, migrating their custom demographics to it17:50
th1aYou don't actually need to migrate them until the summer.17:51
th1aIs school out there?17:51
aelkneri was about to ask about that17:51
aelkneri imagine that they still have a couple weeks left of school17:51
aelknerbut i can check with them today17:51
aelknerth1a: are you saying i shouldn't do any migration until then?17:52
th1aPlease *don't* start changing their system until well after school's out.17:52
aelknerthat's one of the bugs you assigned to me17:53
th1aI mean, do it all on a test instance, but don't touch their production server.17:53
aelknerok, i thought you might suggest that17:53
aelknerthat's fine17:53
aelknermy development box serves as the test instance17:54
Lumiereth1a: given my day I refuse to scold anyone for language17:54
aelkneri copy their Data.fs file to my machine17:54
aelknerLumiere: what does that have to do with what i'm talking about?17:55
th1aaelkner: Nothing.17:55
th1aaelkner: Don't tell the government you do that.17:55
th1aLumiere: Any svn>bzr or other news?17:56
aelkneri don't talk to the government, so there's no risk of that17:56
aelknerth1a: so are you telling me that my report is done rather than waiting for me to say so?17:57
th1aanything else aelkner?17:58
aelknerno :)17:58
aelknerbut thanks for asking17:58
* th1a is trying to wrap this up...17:58
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool17:58
th1aOK, time's up.17:59
th1aHave a great week gentlemen!17:59
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:59
yvlthanks th1a17:59
yvlIf there's anything related to Moodle integration you can write/pass around without too much effort... I'll be grateful18:00
aelkneryvl: i tried the following:18:00
aelknerbzr push lp:~aelkner/schooltool/schooltool.gradebook_column_preferences18:00
aelkneri get this error:18:00
aelknerYou have not informed bzr of your launchpad login. If you are attempting a18:01
aelknerwrite operation and it fails, run "bzr launchpad-login YOUR_ID" and try again.18:01
aelknerbzr: ERROR: Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()18:01
aelknerwhat does that mean?18:01
aelkneri've never used bzr launchpad-login YOUR_ID18:02
aelknerdo i need to do just that?18:02
aelknerhow often?18:02
yvlonce per reboot of your computer18:02
aelknereach time i turn on my machine?18:02
aelknerok, cool18:03
yvlif you don't supply your username, it tells you who are you logged in as: "bzr launchpad-login"18:04
yvlthis might be helpful:
th1aYou don't have to do it every time.18:06
aelknerwell, at least i can take the error message at its word and do the login any time i get that error18:07
aelknerit worked, and the newly pushed branch appears in the list of branches on launchpad18:08
aelkneryvl: so the only step i need to do now is request the merge there, right?18:08
Lumiere*catches up*18:09
Lumiereth1a: I have to merge and push another svn release18:09
yvlaelkner, I don't see the branch yet in your profile18:09
yvldid you push it?18:09
aelkneryep, and it appears in the list18:09
Lumierethen I am going to make the commit list null18:09
Lumiereand do another svn fix18:10
aelkneryvl: so you see it there?18:10
yvlah, I see it now18:10
Lumiereand ask menesis to swap the 2 repositories18:10
* yvl is blind :|18:10
yvlyes, just propose merging in
aelknerand that's it?18:11
yvlyes, thank you18:12
Lumiereand that sends an email to the driver?18:13
aelknerthat 's was my next question, did you get an email already?18:13
yvland I'm looking now why18:14
yvlI'm not subscribed, that's why18:14
aelknerperhaps a time delay, a lag while waiting for a timer pop18:14
aelkneryvl: what does it mean, you are are not subscribed?18:16
aelknersubscribed to what exactly?18:17
yvlto changes and review requests for the main schooltool.gradebook branch18:17
ignasto trunk i'd guess18:17
yvl* schooltool.gradebook trunk18:17
ignasyvl: you should subscribe schooltool-commits or someone like that to schooltool.gradebook trunk18:18
ignasthen everyone will get merge requests and commit notifications18:18
Lumierejelkner: ping18:18
yvlok, gotta go18:20
yvla productive day to you all :)18:20
aelkneryvl: thanks18:20
*** Aiste has quit IRC18:20
*** ignas has quit IRC19:14
*** jelkner has quit IRC19:18
*** ignas has joined #schooltool19:28
*** menesis has quit IRC20:27
*** mgedmin has quit IRC20:33
*** ignas has quit IRC20:46
*** jcrowley has joined #schooltool21:24
*** moquist has joined #schooltool21:27
th1ahi moquist.21:29
*** jstraw has joined #schooltool21:41
*** jstraw has quit IRC21:43
*** jcrowley has quit IRC22:04
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool22:08
*** jelkner has quit IRC22:30
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool22:31
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool22:35
*** alga has quit IRC22:40
*** jeiworth has quit IRC22:52
th1ahej replaceafill22:54
replaceafillhey th1a22:54
th1aAny news from SA?22:55
replaceafillsorry i missed the meeting but i still feel like crap :(22:55
th1aDid you chat with them on Friday?22:55
th1aSorry to hear you aren't feeling well.22:55
replaceafillyes, joy told me she was finishing the proposal22:55
th1aDid she have any comment about your quote?22:56
replaceafillno, i asked her and she told me it was ok and that she included it in the proposal22:56
replaceafillth1a, i just forwarded an email to you22:56
replaceafillth1a, and since i finished the two bugs i had assigned myself, i was thinking on working on this one
replaceafillth1a, can i assign it to me?22:58
*** jeiworth has joined #schooltool22:58
th1areplaceafill: Please do.23:03
replaceafillth1a, thanks23:03
replaceafilli like non-ascii bugs cause i feel identified with them :)23:03
th1areplaceafill: I sent a reply to your email.23:19
replaceafillth1a, yes just read it, thanks23:20
th1aI think it depends on how much experience your accountant has with international relationships.23:21
replaceafillfirst i'd need to get an accountant :)23:21
th1aWell, the problem isn't on your end.23:21
replaceafillth1a, do you have a recent schooltool trunk checkout?23:23
replaceafilli have a question about courses23:23
replaceafillwith the new id, credits and stuff23:23
th1aI don't, actually.23:23
th1aWhat's the question?23:24
replaceafillwhen you add a course, the add form doesnt show the "new" attributes23:24
replaceafillis that intended?23:24
replaceafillthe edit form does23:25
th1aOh.  No, that is not intended.23:25
replaceafilland the csv course importer should also handle the new attributes, right?23:31
th1aYes -- and the spreadsheet.23:35
th1aThose are good bugs for you.  ;-)23:35
th1aOK.  I have to go buy groceries.23:36
*** jelkner has quit IRC23:51

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!