IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2009-05-21

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Bert_2Hi, can I find a demo version of schooltool somewhere, I'd like to have a look at it without installing yet12:50
ignasBert_2: nope13:33
ignasthere aren't any i am afraid13:33
Bert_2too bad :(13:47
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Lumierehi jelkner19:54
jelknerLumiere: i'm in a meeting on #sugar-meeting19:58
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th1areplaceafill: ayt?20:18
replaceafillth1a, yes20:18
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th1ahas moquist spoken to you?20:18
th1aOr emailed you?20:18
replaceafillno, not yet20:19
th1aOK.  I should probably try to get you in the loop here...20:19
th1aI have to go afk for about five minutes.20:19
th1aWill you be around.20:20
th1aOK brb.20:20
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* menesis successfully upgraded server to hardy20:24
Lumieremenesis: lol20:27
Lumieremenesis: are you available for a couple minutes tomorrow morning my time ( about the time the monday dev meeting would happen )20:28
Lumieremenesis: so I can do the svn tweaks I need to with you20:28
th1areplaceafill: OK, so here's the situation.20:32
th1amoquist has been talking to this school in Escondido, California about some SchoolTool/Moodle integration.20:33
th1aHe had some kind of vague discussions with them and then yesterday they suddenly realized that they had to spend all their remaining grant money before the end of the month, and that the deliverables would be due July 1.20:34
th1aSo moquist has to come up with a contract, like, tomorrow.20:34
th1aNot to mention trying to even figure out what the requirements actually are.20:34
Lumiereth1a: nuts... totally nuts20:35
th1aBut, they have $10,000 - $16,000 to spend (still working on exactly how much).20:35
th1aAlso, moquist has a regular job, so I'm trying to help pull this together.20:35
th1aSo this would be involving mnet, which is Moodle's XML-RPC system.20:36
replaceafilli read the moodle + mahara integration doc that moquist sent on monday20:36
replaceafilli guess something like that is needed for schooltool, right?20:36
th1aThe current plan is that another friend of moquist's will implement the weirdnesses that Moodle uses on top of XML-RPC as WSGI middleware.20:37
th1aSo SchoolTool will just be doing XML-RPC and the middleware will be doing some kind of crazy SSL key juggling that mnet requires.20:37
th1aThe actual functionality will involve moving enrollment (who is in what section), gradebook and attendance information between the two.20:39
replaceafillhhmm attendance, that's the journal, right?20:39
th1aSo the big question is how busy you are next month?20:40
replaceafillwell, i'll be working in cando20:40
replaceafillbut i'm thinking of leaving my current job here at cdc20:41
replaceafillif this moodle task comes up20:41
replaceafillso, i think i'll have time20:41
replaceafilland if it's just xmlrpc from schooltool20:42
replaceafilli'm familiar with it20:42
th1aAnd to.20:42
replaceafillah yes20:42
replaceafillback and forth20:42
th1aIt is unclear how much of this is just triggered by cron jobs.20:42
th1aAlso the tricker parts become the extra steps to make sure that the messages are received and successfully completed.20:43
th1aRight now the main users of mnet are Moodle and a portfolio system, so at some point someone is going to have to figure out exactly what they're doing.20:44
replaceafillis that system mahara?20:44
th1aDo you know it?20:44
replaceafilli read the 37 pages doc moquist sent on monday20:45
replaceafillit's about how to integrate both of them20:45
th1aPerhaps I did not read the right document.20:45
th1aDo you know what triggers an exchange of messages?20:46
replaceafillno, the doc is mostly for users20:47
th1aAh, ok.20:47
th1aPerhaps I did skim through it.20:47
replaceafillcheck here, fill this, enable that20:47
menesisLumiere: yes, will be available tomorrow after 13:00 UTC20:47
th1aWell, if SchoolTool has to send a message whenever an event occurs in SchoolTool, that can be a pain.20:47
th1aIt is easier to have another process deal with that.20:48
replaceafillyou mean a pain in performance?20:48
replaceafillor to code it?20:49
moquistth1a: about to send an email20:49
th1aWell, you need to spawn a new thread or something.20:49
th1aI'm not saying it is impossible, but it is more fiddly than you'd hope.20:50
th1areplaceafill: I forwarded moquist's email to you.20:59
replaceafillyes, reading it right now20:59
replaceafill(o) get enrollment data from SchoolTool20:59
replaceafill(_) send enrollment data to SchoolTool21:00
replaceafillthat would be cool :)21:00
th1amoquist: To get this done in a month it will be a bit less of a general, easy for anyone to install solution than you'd like.21:01
Lumieredeliver basic app and charge the fees then spend a month adding to it?21:19
th1aMore, instead of writing something that moves data both ways, find out which data they need to go which way and implement that first.21:20
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moquistth1a: OK. I'm pretty comfortable with the Moodle side of the enrollment data part, and I think a totally basic exchange (user 1234 is a student in course 5678, user 4321 is a teacher in course 8765) should be sufficient to start.22:16
moquistThat prepopulates the system with the two most important roles, and those two types of two-element tuples (or that one three-element tuple type) is enough to do it.22:17
moquistI also suspect that for the first deliverable, Moodle->SchoolTool enrollment exchange would be enough.22:18
moquistHeck, SSO could also be one-way to start with, and that may be the way to go.22:18
moquistMoodle->SchoolTool. *shrug*22:18
moquistPenny pointed out to me in private conversation that each direction of SSO needs to be implemented by each side, of course, so just doing one way to start with is probably a better idea since we've got a time/money crunch.22:19
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moquistth1a: Moodle's external DB stuff really is super, and quite easy to set up. If we're not doing mnet in the next month then I think that's the way to go (at least from a Moodle perspective).22:48
moquistplus I have extensive experience with it. :)22:49
th1amoquist: Does it require a SQL database?23:27
th1aI guess we'd have to create a plug-in of some kind.23:29
th1aWeb services are better if we can do it.23:30
moquistth1a: yes. What I would want from/in schooltool is a dump of relational-looking stuff.23:33
moquistI don't think this is a good long-term solution, so it's not one I would recommend to become supported or "released", really.23:33
moquistI'd be happy to do it as glue for the temporary external-ish solution.23:33
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moquistth1a: we can talk again after I speak with joe.23:34
th1amoquist: Yep.23:36

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