IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2008-12-08

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th1aHi ignas, aelkner, jstraw, jelkner, yvl.16:29
aelknergood morning16:30
th1aOur secret plan to see how many people are using SchoolTool worked!16:30
jelknergood morning!16:30
th1a...and the bug reports poured in.16:30
ignasnot used, but actually wanted to install it from scratch16:30
jelkneri can tell you i'm lovin it!16:30
jelknerthe new gradebook fixes are sweet16:30
th1aNot entirely loving the package breakage...16:30
jelknereverything is working well for me16:31
jelknerof course, i have my brother to manage my instance16:31
th1aAs I said in my email to the schooltool list, we just need to switch back to our "we have users now" release processes.16:31
jelknerwhich most of our hapless users do not ;-)16:31
th1aSo what's the status of things now, ignas?16:32
ignasth1a: hardy and intrepid working16:32
ignasit seems that hardy is the most popular distribution at the moment16:32
ignasi will look at gutsy next16:32
th1aSchools will tend to like LTS.16:32
ignasi have also released python-xlwt and will need someone to test it16:32
th1aIf someone using hardy apt-get updates they should get it?16:33
ignasemm - current schooltool16:33
ignasis using python-xlrd only16:33
* th1a doesn't know the difference.16:33
ignasI have added a package for xlwt to accomodate our next release16:33
ignasxlrd (excel read)16:34
ignasxlwt (excel write)16:34
ignasone for import support, the other for export16:34
th1aSo we don't export to excel yet?16:34
ignasnope, not in this release16:34
ignasthis release was to get sample data working16:34
ignasi mean - I have the code, but I would like to have some more tests16:35
th1aOK.  We really need to do release notes now.16:35
th1aAnother reason to release on Tuesday...16:35
ignasth1a: where and how?16:35
ignasmailing list? website?16:35
th1aIf you put them in the source code I'll publish them elsewhere.16:36
th1aCould you just do a  text file?16:36
ignasyes I can16:36
ignasthinking where it should go16:36
ignasi mean - we have a release branch and trunk16:36
ignasand feature releases are going to different places on different times16:36
ignasalso - sometimes I am releasing just schooltool.gradebook or just schooltoo.lyceum.journal16:37
th1aOK, putting it in the source tree may make us think too hard.16:38
ignasi think a global text file somewhere on the internets that I expand every time I release to Ubuntu16:38
ignasshould work ok16:38
ignasmaybe in our users-guide even16:38
th1aOK.  That's settled.16:39
th1aThere are a number of other bugfixes in this release, too.16:39
th1aOr maybe you've been quietly slipping those in.16:39
th1aActually, I guess I need to apt-get upgrade myself.16:41
th1aSo what's on your queue for the week, ignas?16:42
ignasth1a: well, I want to work on import functionality16:42
ignasadd tests and error handling16:42
ignasand I also want to release the export16:43
ignasso people could start testing it16:43
th1aOK.  Solidify that.  I'll start writing docs and get the word out.16:43
th1aNow... SchoolTool in 2009.16:44
th1aBasically, we have the same amount of money as 2008.16:44
jelknerhurray for sabdfl!16:45
th1aWhich means almost all of us will still be working on SchoolTool.16:45
th1aAnd we won't be getting raises.16:45
th1aBut given the unemployment rate in Rhode Island, I'm ok with that, and hopefully everyone else is too.16:45
jelknerwere in a deflationary period16:46
jelknerso the same money will go farther anyway16:46
aelknernow's not the time to ask for raises16:46
th1aNow, the one thing is that I basically have funding for two full time developers, but because of the weird CanDo related maneuvers of the fall, we've got 2.5 developers.16:47
th1aSo in the short term at least, I won't have money to keep yvl on the project, unfortunately.16:47
ignashmm, isn't aelkner being half financed by virginia state?16:47
th1aWell... he *probably* will be.16:48
aelknerwe need dwelsh to answer that one16:48
th1aHe almost certainly will be at various points in the year.16:48
th1aI really need to take this up with Aiste.16:48
th1aBut basically, what I'd like to do is to be able to continue to shift aelkner onto CanDo when they have money and pick up yvl.16:49
th1aIf that is possible.16:49
ignasI see16:49
th1aAnyhow, I'll send an email about this... I don't want to get too much into personnel complexity on IRC.16:50
th1aOverall, we're alive, and that's good.16:50
jelknernot just alive, but alive and kickin!16:50
th1aaelkner and jelkner: are you guys on the schooltool mailing list?16:51
jelkneri am16:51
aelkneryes, i've been getting the emails16:51
th1a(not schooltool-dev)16:51
aelkneri know16:51
jelkneri believe i'm on both16:51
th1aDid you see the email about weighting in the gradebook?16:51
aelkneri've seen your anouncements16:51
th1a'Gradebook calculations' from Neil Manson.16:51
aelkneri got that16:52
th1aCan you help him with that (i.e., answer his question)?16:52
aelknerdo we have any instructions for the gradebook like the schooltool ones?16:53
th1aNot yet.16:53
th1aI've been stalling on writing new docs until the new import system was done.16:54
th1aJust point him in the right direction.16:54
aelknerbut i'll tell you, the things he's talking about doing16:54
aelknerare a big departure from the way schooltool.gradebook works16:54
aelknerhe's talking about weighting activities16:54
aelknerwe don't support that16:55
th1aYeah, but you could make categories and have one assignment per category.16:55
aelkneronly categories16:55
aelknerso you're suggesting the solution is to create new categories?16:55
aelkneras the user16:55
th1aI'm saying that is how you'd do it if you wanted to do it with SchoolTool now.16:56
ignasth1a: from what I understood - he wanted fields that are equal to particular formulas, and not even 1 field, but multiple fields...16:56
aelknerthat's i'm saying16:56
ignasth1a: I can't imagine doing that without editing schooltool code...16:56
th1aOh, I see.16:56
th1aOK.  I guess I understand enough to answer the question then.16:57
th1aI'll handle it.16:57
th1aaelkner: You're up.16:58
aelknerok, so i made the changes to the new years cando branch16:58
aelknerto get it to work with schoolyears16:58
aelknerit all works save for one thing16:59
aelknerfor some reason, traversal to course skilldrivers is broken16:59
aelknerand i can't see how that's schoolyears related16:59
aelknerbut it's something that i can discuss with ignas after the meeting16:59
aelknerotherwise, i have an issue to discuss regarding cando in genereal17:00
* jelkner perks up his ears...17:00
aelknerright now, we have a live cando that dwelsh and jstraw set up17:00
aelknerand it uses the non-schoolyears branch17:00
aelknerthere are two problems with that17:01
aelkner1) if they ever do a bin/buildout -n17:01
aelknerbecause they forgot the inpact of it17:01
aelknerthey would unwittingly cause the schoolyears evolution script to run17:01
aelkner2) i now can't maintain the old cando on my machine17:02
aelknerbecause i now have the new eggs17:02
aelknerso the old cando can't work17:02
aelkneri could change the old cando buildout.cfg17:02
aelknerto use checkouts of the older schooltool and schooltool.gradebook17:02
aelknerthat don't have the schoolyears logic in them17:03
aelknerfor that, i'd need ignas to point me to the right repos17:03
aelkneri have another idea17:03
ignasaelkner: not checkouts, just setting versions will do17:03
aelknerah, that's right17:03
ignasaelkner: you can set gradebook and schooltool egg versions to ones before school years17:04
aelknersetup.cfg, right?17:04
ignasno, buildout.cfg17:04
aelknerok, i'll ask about that after the meeting17:04
ignasyou can do it in both places, but buildout.cfg works better17:04
aelknerwell, that may be the most practical thing17:04
aelknermy other suggestion would be to think about getting the live cando using the new branch17:05
aelknerin other words, biting the bullet and doing the schoolyears upgrade17:05
aelknerso that we could put no-schoolhyears cando behnd us17:05
aelknerit would make my life much easier in the longriun17:06
th1aThere is no reason you can't copy the database and see what happens.17:06
aelkneryes, i can do that17:06
aelknerthat's not the issue17:07
aelkneri'm sure that there's no problem doing the migration17:07
aelkneras we already did it with jelkner's cando17:07
aelknerand it worked out fine17:07
aelknernowe that i've got the cando interface to workj with schoolyears17:07
aelknerso, all i'm saying is17:08
th1aIt doesn't really change things from the teacher's point of view, right?17:08
aelknerno, it was just a matter of getting the code to work17:08
aelknerjstraw: ayt?17:09
th1aI would imagine that the new pilots would want to have school years running from the start.17:09
aelknerme, too17:09
ignasI was just a bit wary of migrating to school years without cando integrating with them17:09
aelknerso now that we've done the integration...17:10
ignasi mean - at the moment they will have school years, but school years will not be doing anything, and I think cando has it's own notion of school years17:10
th1aSchool years will just archive the data.17:10
th1aWhich is kind of important ;-)17:10
ignasth1a: well, my point is - what happens when you add a new school year, and how it happens17:11
jstrawaelkner: just grab the cando from my instance17:11
ignasth1a: this part is not really polished or even worked on I think17:11
aelknerjstraw: can i call you after the meeting?17:11
ignasfrom cando perspective17:11
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jstrawaelkner: yes, but I am not sure how much I can help today17:11
ignasthough - i guess migrating now and then working on the switch might be easier17:11
aelknerignas: cando works by using the date manager's current_term17:12
ignasthan working on some kind of switch and then migrating a bigger chunk of data17:12
th1aThe data migration is the scary part.17:12
ignasaelkner: the one that I have advised to carefully avoid?17:12
aelknernow that i've worked with schoolyears a while17:12
aelkneri've seen the success of the data migration17:12
aelknerso i'm not nervous about it17:12
ignasI see17:13
ignaswell, in that case - you probably know about it more than I do17:13
ignasso as long as it's OK with you and with CanDo users17:13
aelknerignas: nice work on the evolution stuff17:13
aelknerso i'll talk to dwelsh and jstraw about that17:13
aelknerbut i just like the idea of having only one cando to maintain17:14
th1aIt would be stupid for the pilots to not have years.17:14
aelknerand the current one should be as least as up to date as the pilots wil be17:15
th1aAnd you'll want Arlington and the pilots to be on the same version.17:15
aelknerwe're on the same page17:15
th1aFor once ;-)17:15
aelkneri'll shoot for that this week17:15
th1aYes, you can focus on that.17:15
aelkneralso, sla has not gotten back to me17:16
th1aWe're still waiting to throw the switch on CAS, right?17:16
th1aPerhaps over Christmas?17:16
aelknermaybe that would be best17:16
aelknerthat would be up to chris alfano cause i'd be willing17:16
th1aProbably.  I'll email Chris's) today.17:16
aelknerbut certainly a good time17:17
aelknerwith teachers out and all17:17
aelknerok, thanks17:17
th1aRight before Christmas would tend to be a bad time.17:17
th1ayvl: You're up.17:17
ignasth1a: he is sick17:17
ignasth1a: so he's not in the office anymore17:18
th1aDo you know if he has SchoolTool time this week?17:18
ignasth1a: not sure about it, he was in the office only for a short time17:20
ignasand I had not time to ask what he was working on at the moment17:20
ignasand I don't really know whether he is going to get better soon (he wants to be up tomorrow ;)17:20
ignasso i'll poke him to write an email as soon as i'll see him, or you could just write him an email and ask17:21
th1aOK.  No problem.17:21
ignaswhich he will reply to as soon as he checks his email17:21
ignas(might be 3-4 hours earlier than I come to the office ;)17:21
th1aNo rush.17:22
th1ajstraw, jelkner: Anything else to add?17:22
th1ajelkner got yvl's fixes, right?17:22
th1agradebook fixes.17:22
jelknerthey are great17:22
jelkneralso, i've talked to fsufitchi and ccary about philly17:23
jelknerthey are both on board17:23
jelkneri talked to fsufichi's dad17:23
jstrawyes... I hate moodle17:23
jstrawand mediawiki17:23
jelknerand i'll call ccarey's tonight17:24
th1aYes... Ignas, when would you like to come to the US for a sprint?17:24
th1aThink about it.17:24
jstrawth1a: so, are we going to get to freeze our rears off again?17:24
jstrawcause if we gotta do that walk again, I need a heavier coat ;)17:24
th1aWith a winter sprint?17:24
jstrawI nearly froze to death that first night17:25
ignasth1a: hmm, i am pretty flexible in this respect, as long as I know when at least a month or so in advance17:25
th1aWell, it needs to be before April, since that's the release.17:25
th1aI'm thinking early-February-ish.17:25
ignasyeah, seems like a sane date17:25
jelknerth1a: do u want us to host it here?17:25
ignasat least 2 months before release17:25
jelknerthat way fsufitchi and ccary could be involved17:26
th1ajelkner: True.17:26
th1aYeah, we should probably do it down there.17:26
th1aI miss that Best Western.17:27
jelkneractually, i may have a 2-bedroom condo that eveyone could stay at by then17:27
th1aGetting into real estate speculation?17:27
jelknerno, planning a longer term move to alrington17:27
jelknerand unable to pass up the current prices and interest rates17:28
jelkneri'll have to rent it eventually17:28
th1aGive 'em another six months.17:28
jelknerbut i could wait until after the sprint17:28
th1aThe market hasn't bottomed yet.17:28
jstrawI am hoping that in 6 months I can grab a cheap condo too :)17:28
th1aSo perhaps jelkner should pick a date.17:29
th1aSInce the rest of us just have to show up ;-)17:30
th1abtw, I think we're not coming to the inauguration.17:31
jelknermy wife and i go to puerto rico the weekend of the 14th17:31
jelknerfor our 20th anniversary17:31
th1a14th of?17:31
jelknerfeb meets ingnas's criteria17:31
jelkner2 months before april17:31
jelknerso the big question is17:32
jelknerwhich weekend17:32
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jelknerignas: do u think early febuary or late?17:32
jelknerwhat about february 6, 7, and 8?17:32
th1aThat looks right.17:33
jelkneris 3 days the right number?17:33
ignasjelkner: keep in mind that I have to fly there ;)17:33
th1aI think so.17:33
ignasjelkner: so i might have to get there a day early or something like that17:33
jelknerignas: u are always welcome17:34
ignasalso maybe leave the next day after sprint in the morning17:34
jelknerand we can put you up17:34
jelkner(if you are not living large in my new condo ;-)17:34
jelkneraelkner should come down too17:34
jelknerfor as long as ignas is here17:34
aelkner_of course17:34
th1aSo we need to get replacafil in on this too.17:35
th1aCan you let him know?  I'll write a letter when needed.17:35
jelknerhe reads these logs religiously, so u just did17:35
jelknerok, i'll reserve the building17:36
th1aOK.  Let me know when that's done.17:36
jelknerwill do17:36
th1aSpeaking of which, I think this meeting is done.17:36
jelkneri have incoming students soon17:37
jelknerso i need to go17:37
th1aHave a great week, and looking forward to another successful year, gentlemen!17:37
* th1a drops the bag of grave.17:37
jelknerrock on!17:37
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:37
th1a(for search purposes)17:38
ignaswe know ;)17:38
th1aTalk amongst yourselves.17:38
aelkner_i'm getting verklemmt17:38
jelknercya all later...17:38
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th1aignas: Awesome new EVE Devblog out.18:04
ignasth1a: will read it some time ;) I am seriously behind my blog reading again ;)18:09
ignas*behind on18:09
th1aignas: Well, major client performance increases coming this week.18:26
th1aFor when you decide to start joining giant fleet battles ;-)18:26
ignasyeah, me vs BoB18:27
th1aIt seems like improving server performance has revealed some complacency in the client.18:28
th1aSo they're finally adding things like "turn off drone models."18:29
* th1a should stop distracting his contractors.18:30
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replaceafillignas, i did a trunk checkout of schooltool and set my instance lang to es18:45
replaceafillignas, but i noticed the po files are not compiled to mo files18:45
th1aignas: We need some translation file love soon.18:46
replaceafillth1a, i got ur mail about chile's interest in schooltool18:47
ignasreplaceafill: go to a checkout of schooltool18:47
ignasand do "make update-translations"18:48
replaceafillignas, :O!!18:48
ignasreplaceafill: it will compile po files into mo files18:48
ignasreplaceafill: understandably we are trying not to have autogenerated files in bzr18:48
ignasreplaceafill: i think mo files should be present in eggs though18:49
replaceafillignas, could the make build rule include update-translations?18:49
ignasreplaceafill: sorry it's "make compile-translations"18:49
replaceafillignas, ah ok18:49
ignasreplaceafill: well - most of the time you have a buildout and have a schooltool checkout in which you don't run buildout at all18:49
ignaslike schooltool.stapp2008spring (in which you run make build) and a checkout of schooltool that is referenced in schooltool.stapp2008spring/buildout.cfg18:50
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jstrawaelkner: here?22:24
aelknerjstraw: did you get my private message?22:30
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budgester_Hi I am wondering how I can extend the information about people in school tool23:45
budgester_i.e add more fields23:45

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