IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2008-10-27

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th1aHi aelkner, jelkner, ignas, yvl.15:30
th1aGlad to see yvl has fixed my least favorite bug.15:31
th1aOK, we've got a busy week ahead.15:32
th1aignas: Want to start us off?15:32
ignascan i be after aelkner today15:32
aelknerlast week i had a pretty bad cold, so i didn't get very much done15:33
aelkneri did try out the change marius suggested15:33
aelknerusing the whole path to the mail-queue in the config15:33
aelknerit didn't change anything though15:33
aelkneri still think i'm right about the effect of stdout or stderr15:34
aelknerfor instance, i set up a crom job to restart to server15:34
aelknerbut it doesn't clear the queue15:34
aelkneronly when i restart the server with the terminal instance open15:34
aelknerdoes the queue get sent to the mail server15:35
aelkneri need to spend time looking at the zope's code to find out where it sends the mail15:35
aelknerand it would help if i had a mail server i could use15:36
aelknerbecuase i'm not comfortable testing on sla's live server15:36
th1aWell... getting sendmail working just on localhost isn't too bad.15:36
th1aOr postfix.15:36
aelkneri tried installing postfix a while back15:37
aelknerit wouldn't work15:37
th1aFrom the Ubuntu package?15:37
aelkneri don't remember, it's ben a while15:38
aelkneri do remember following a long list of config instructions15:39
aelknerand the furiating part15:39
aelknerwas that the instructions didn't match reality15:39
aelknerit would say, "change this setting to that"15:39
aelkneronly there was no "this setting" to change15:40
th1aIt is a sufficiently common task that you should be able to find good up to date instructions for Ubuntu.15:40
aelknerso i had to guess at a lot of the config options15:40
aelknerand it didn't wrk15:40
aelknerif you'd like i could try that next15:40
th1aAlso, since you really only need to send mail to localhost, it shouldn't be that hard.15:40
aelkneri also worked on a cando report last week15:40
aelknerbut it's not finished yet15:41
aelknerso that's all15:41
ignasmoved/copied/transfered packages to Ibex PPA15:41
ignasmade branches15:42
ignasreleased new packages15:42
ignastested them to install on gutsy locally15:42
ignasthinking of how to resolve backup and configuration problems at the moment15:42
ignasbefore uploading to PPA15:42
ignasone small problem15:43
ignasis that last year i made a small mistake15:43
ignasand released schooltool-200815:44
ignasinstead of schooltool-2008.0415:44
ignaswhich means that now the server package will be schooltool-2008.1015:44
ignasand the 04 configuration will be schooltool-200815:44
th1aThat's fine.15:45
ignaswe'll have to think about instructions15:45
ignasfor moving your Database from 2008 to 2008.1015:45
ignasbut that is easy enough15:45
ignasand you can just add a gradebook slug to plugins15:45
ignasso I must fix the back up15:45
ignasand then release to gutsy15:45
ignastest it on my machine15:46
th1aSo you'll have to manually turn on the gradebook?15:46
ignasmove your Data.fs to the 2008.10 folder15:47
ignasfix schooltool.conf15:47
ignasto include the other site.zcml15:47
th1aLet's say I'm starting fresh with 2008.10, do I have a gradebook by default?15:48
ignasstapp2008fall has gradebook in it15:48
th1aIf I'm upgrading, I don't see it by default.15:48
ignasyour configuration is preserved15:49
th1aBut if I migrate my db I see it?15:49
ignasif you fix your config15:50
ignasor move db and use a different config15:50
th1aIf I don't switch the config, my db is updated but I don't get the gradebook.15:50
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ignasschool years15:51
ignasbut not gradebook15:51
ignasso that's kind of it15:52
ignaswe have one ibex machine in the office15:52
ignasso as soon as i'll get database backups working on gutsy15:52
ignasi will test our release on ibex15:52
ignaseither today or tomorrow15:52
th1aI'm wondering if it makes more sense to make a backup and try to update the db automatically than to have everyone wondering if all their data disappeared when they restart with a new blank database.15:53
ignasdefault usecase is:15:53
ignassudo apt-get update15:53
ignassudo apt-get upgrade15:53
ignasyou go to localhost:7080 - everything is there but has school years15:53
th1aOK.  So you've been planning on doing a backup and trying the migration automatically.15:54
ignasnow if you know you can upgrade to the next configuration15:54
ignasyou install schooltool-2008.1015:54
ignasand you move your database to schooltool-2008.1015:54
ignasand you get gradebook15:55
ignasor if you know of plugins15:55
ignasyou just enable gradebook in your plugins15:55
ignasbackup is needed for evolution to school years15:55
ignasnot for gradebook15:55
th1aIn the longer run, we would want new plugins to be turned on manually.15:55
th1aFor this release, I'd be happy to have it be automatic, but it doesn't really matter.15:56
ignaswe will want an automated way of turning them all manually15:56
ignasplugins that is15:56
th1aWe'll need a system for managing them.15:56
ignasyeah, for now - a slug and instructions in the manual15:58
ignaswill be good enough i think15:58
th1aShould we try to squeeze in a few more bugfixes by aelkner and yvl?15:59
ignaswe will15:59
ignasI asked yvl to do some of them16:00
ignasso I would have more Ibex marked stuff in the release16:00
ignaswhen backups will be up16:00
ignasit will be a matter of minutes / or an hour to deploy them16:00
th1aI'm unclear on the status of this bug --
th1aAre there current hardy packages I can download from you ignas?16:01
ignaslike Gutsy -1?16:01
th1aGutsy, I meant.16:01
th1ano... hardy.16:02
th1aThe current release.16:02
th1aThe question here is, what should I be using for testing?16:02
ignashmm, i can upload them16:03
ignasbut they are not backing up database at the moment16:03
ignaswhich is why i don't want to do that in case someone does apt-get update16:03
ignasnow ;)16:04
th1aUpload them to the ppa or elsewhere?16:04
th1aI should be able to just download them and install manually?16:04
th1aUnless I need fresh versions of the whole stack?16:04
ignasi can upload them elsewhere i guess, because I have built all 5-6 of them locally16:05
ignason my machine16:05
th1aThat might be best.16:05
ignasbut backup your database yourself ;)16:05
th1aWith all my valuable fake data.16:05
th1adwelsh & jelkner:  Do you have anything to add?16:06
jelknerth1a: i've only been half way following16:07
jelkneri've been working with replacefill on the gradebook integration16:08
th1aDo you have any pressing issues, jelkner?16:08
th1aHow's that coming?16:08
jelkneri figure you have your hands full this week with the release16:08
jelknerso i was hoping we could discuss this more next week16:08
jelknerdoes that sound right?16:08
jelkneri'll have questions like:16:09
jelkner1. what is the process to get my current gradebook updated with the new features?16:10
jelkner2. do we need to evolve the current data to do that?16:10
jelknersince i figured it will involve ignas, i thought it best to leave it be until next week16:10
th1aHopefully it will Just Work. ;-)16:11
jelknerthat would be nice!16:11
th1aOK... so...16:11
th1aperhaps aelkner and I should look at bugs he might fix and ignas can find something for yvl if he's available.16:12
th1ahm... the only problem with installing these manually is I probably need to get the sequence right.16:14
th1aI guess it isn't too hard.16:15
th1aWhat's yvl's schedule look like?16:15
dwelshaelkner:  I'll call this am... interested in admin report16:17
ignasth1a: nope16:17
ignasdpkg -i 1.deb 2.deb ...16:17
ignasand they'll go together16:18
yvlhello everybody16:19
yvlsorry I missed the meeting :|16:19
th1ahi yvl.16:20
th1aignas: Are we missing python-schooltool deb?16:20
yvlth1a, I've got one more nearly fixed (
yvlplan to do at least 1-2 before the release16:21
th1aI'm very happy you're fixing that bug.16:21
ignasth1a:  python-schooltool_2008.10.1-1_all.deb ?16:21
th1aHm.  There seems to be a circular dependency between python-schooltool and schooltool.gradebook.16:24
th1aOr... something.16:24
th1aGot it.16:25
th1aaelkner: I'd like to take a look at the first-use story for gradebook.16:26
aelknerwhat's that?16:27
th1aI'm confused about where it stands because I think my whole gradebook setup was broken when I was trying to test it from a checkout.16:27
th1aWell, what happens the first time you look at gradebook.16:27
aelkneryou, mean, what happens when you first click on the Gradebook tab at the top?16:28
th1aI mean, I install SchoolTool, and I say, "I wonder what the gradebook looks like."  What do I see?16:28
aelkneryou click on the tab, and it takes you to the gradebook view16:29
aelknerthe gradebook view looks a the annotations of the person16:29
aelknerfor the current gradebook section/worksheet16:29
aelknerif there is no annotation set16:30
aelknerit will choose the first section in the list of sections the teacher teaches16:30
aelknerand the first worksheet in that section16:30
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th1aYou were saying?16:32
aelkneri was done16:33
aelknerdid you miss it?16:33
th1aWhat if there is no current worksheet?16:33
aelknerif there is no current worksheet, then the gradebook would have no worksheets in it16:33
aelknerthe list of activities would be empty16:34
aelknerit's like opening up a spreadheet16:34
aelknerit starts out blamk16:34
aelknerthen you fill it in16:34
aelknerso i'm sure what's confusing about that16:34
ignasth1a: you start oocalc, and you see - nothing, and have to click "create new worksheet" to start working16:35
th1aWell, for one thing it is confusing if I'm trying to test it and I'm getting errors because something is broken in my setup.16:35
ignasth1a: vs - you start oocalc and see 3 empty worksheets that you can add data to16:35
aelknernot so in ms excel16:35
aelkneror opencalc for that matter16:35
ignasth1a: and that one is a different bug16:36
aelknerok, maybe i'm not being accurate16:36
aelknerif open a spread in opencalc16:36
ignasth1a: because you have - you start oocalc and it crashes16:36
ignasopen office calc16:36
aelknergot it16:36
aelknerso when you open oocalc, it does assume that you have one worksheet16:36
th1aAt this point, I'm confused about what SchoolTool actually does because I couldn't test it properly, that's what I'm saying.16:36
th1aOK.  Now what do I have to do to turn gradebook on?16:37
ignasth1a: if you are using schooltool-2008 - yes16:37
ignasth1a: if schooltool-2008.10 - no16:37
th1aI just installed your debs.16:37
ignasth1a: my guess is you are using schooltool-200816:37
th1aHow would I use schooltool-2008.10?16:38
ignasyou would stop schooltool-200816:38
ignasremove it from your startup (the service thingie)16:38
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ignasstop 2008.10 (if it was started)16:38
th1aI see.16:38
jstrawhi all16:38
th1ahi jstraw.16:39
jstrawI only have 10 minutes this morning.  I am supposed to have a class starting at 10:5016:39
ignascp /var/lib/schooltool/schooltool-2008-Data.fs /var/lib/schooltool/schooltool-2008.10-Data.fs16:39
ignasand start schooltool-2008.1016:39
ignasand you will be using the 2008.10 configuration16:40
ignasthe one that people who did not have schooltool and installed schooltool-2008.10 would have16:40
ignasbut with your data16:40
th1aI see.16:40
ignasyou can just remove 2008.10 from your startup16:41
ignasso it would never try to start16:41
ignasand change your site definition in /etc/schooltool/schooltool-2008/main.conf16:42
ignasfrom "site-definition /usr/share/schooltool-2008/site.zcml"16:42
ignasto "site-definition /usr/share/schooltool-2008.10/site.zcml"16:42
ignashmm, or I can just make everyone have gradebooks by default16:42
ignasand not have schooltool-2008.10 at all16:42
ignasif you want me to16:43
th1aI would be ok with that.16:43
th1aAs an alpha > beta thing.16:43
ignasso - remove schooltool-2008.10 then ;)16:43
ignasbecause that one is not going to get released16:44
th1aSo... I'm still getting the same error in gradebook.16:44
ignascan you give more details?16:44
ignaslisppaste5: url16:44
lisppaste5To use the lisppaste bot, visit and enter your paste.16:44
ignasthe error16:44
lisppaste5th1a pasted "activities bug" at
th1aSo I guess it wasn't just an error in my setup.16:46
ignaswhere and what?16:49
ignasmy bad16:50
ignasif it's debian packages16:50
ignasi will fix it ;)16:50
th1aYeah, from the deb.16:50
ignasyou can fix it for now by changing the /usr/share/pyshared/schooltool/stapp2008fall/configure.zcml16:50
ignasand adding   <include package="schooltool.requirements" />16:51
ignasbefore   <include package="schooltool.gradebook" />16:51
ignas  <include package="schooltool.requirement" />16:51
ignasnot requirements16:51
th1aok, for one thing...16:57
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.16:57
lisppaste5th1a pasted "score bug" at
th1aHere's one for you aelkner.17:00
aelknerthat looks like a bug17:01
aelknerth1a: i need some short-term priorities17:02
aelkneri know what i need to do next for cando17:02
aelknerwhat should be my very next schooltool task?17:03
aelknerfix that bug?17:03
th1aThe short term priority is for you and I to clean up gradebook.17:03
aelkneri'll look into that bug fist17:05
aelkneri'm gong to take a shower now17:07
th1aI'll be around.17:08
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aelknerth1a: ayt?18:27
th1aI am here.18:27
aelknercould you take a look at schooltool/requirement/ a moment?18:28
th1aI guess so...18:28
aelknerit would help our discussion...18:29
aelknercould i call you while i'm at it?18:29
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