IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2008-08-25

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fsufitchyvl: ping04:52
fsufitchaelkner: ping04:52
fsufitchi need some advice from a more experienced zope coder04:52
aelknerwhat's the question?04:53
fsufitchso, there's a user story (dwelsh's actually) that says that instead of using the pull-down menu to switch between comp groups while you're viewing a skilldriver gradebook, you should see a list of skilldrivers instead04:53
fsufitchto do this (and because of the way compgrps are built into the gradebook) i need to make some major changes04:54
fsufitchthe two solutions i see are:04:54
fsufitch1. mutilating the regular gradebook to do this for me04:54
fsufitch(involves a lot of if statements, especially tal:if statements)04:54
fsufitch2. writing a SkillDriverCompetencyGradebook class in the skilldriver module04:54
fsufitchthe second seems a bit better to me04:55
aelkneryes #204:55
fsufitchand less of a pain to debug04:55
aelkneryou create a base class04:55
fsufitchyep there is a base gradebook class already04:55
aelknerthat has 95% of what the current gradebook has04:55
fsufitchumm actually i need to scrap about 90% of what the current gradebook has04:55
aelknerand you derive CompetencyGradeBook and SkillDriverGradebook from them04:55
fsufitchsee, i dont like how the comp gradebook works04:56
aelkneri agree that doing it in the template would be a mess04:56
fsufitchlike why have 1 view for all the groups and then pick and choose between them04:56
fsufitchwhy not be like04:56
fsufitchso you see that comp group04:56
fsufitchand at localhost/sections/1/gradeCompetencies/some-other-comp-group04:56
fsufitchyou see another comp group04:56
fsufitchand at localhost/sections/1/gradeCompetencies/index.html04:57
fsufitchcando remembers which was the last one you viewed, and redirects you to that one04:57
aelknernow that's an idea04:57
fsufitchbecause then it's easy to add things like skilldrivers on top of that functionality04:57
aelknerbut i don't know if now's the time to introduce it04:58
fsufitchbecause you'd just need a localhost/sections/1/gradeCompetencies/skilldrivers.html04:58
fsufitchyeah, it's not04:58
aelknerbeing that we are about to release it to ACC04:58
fsufitchbut i'm doing it this way for the skilldrivers04:58
aelknerwe could refactor it at a later sprint04:58
aelkneri'd break up the classes04:58
aelkneras we discussed04:58
fsufitchwell yeah04:58
fsufitchof course04:58
aelknerand just get it to work04:58
fsufitchyep :)04:58
fsufitchthat i CanDo :-P04:59
aelknerwe can talk about your poijts04:59
aelknerwhen we have the chance04:59
aelkneri have a q2uestion04:59
fsufitchgo on04:59
aelknerin your firefox04:59
aelknerwhat are your font settings?04:59
fsufitchserif size 1605:00
aelkneras in are you running hardy?05:00
aelknersee, i just upgraded to hardy and05:01
aelknerit changed my firefox to have those values, too05:01
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aelknerbut i don't like them, and I don't remember what they were05:01
fsufitchi dunno05:02
aelkneroh well05:02
aelkneri'll probably get used to it :)05:02
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th1aignas:  I finally spent your birthday present.16:21
th1aI'm moving five electronic attack frigates down to Curse now...16:22
th1ato get carrier jumped into the warzone.16:22
ignasmy corp is wardecing some other corp tomorrow (we have like 8 members and they have like 50-100)16:23
th1aYou guys don't go to war much do you?16:23
ignaswell, the corp i am in spent a lot of time in 0.0, but now are back in the empire16:23
ignasfor a break and some fun16:24
ignasso the guys know what they are doing ;)16:24
th1aHow long have you been in the corp?16:24
ignasa month or so16:24
ignaswe ditched our old alliance, and are planning to move to another one, but decided to have some fun in between16:26
th1aThe rest of my corp lost interest in factional warfare pretty quickly, so we're back in Ushra'Khan.16:26
th1aWe ticked off some pirates in FW who wardecced us.  Unfortunately they like to camp BTT in Rens, so it was inconvenient for fitting my ships.16:27
th1aBut they'll have to drop the war now unless the want to dec the whole alliance now.16:28
ignasthat's where we're at ;) (at least around the area)16:30
th1aI guess we're at the same place at different times.16:30
th1aI usually play from 2:00 to 4:00, eve-time.16:31
ignasI know, I saw you online twice I think ;)16:31
th1aI haven't noticed you come up.16:31
th1aI can't remember your name though.16:32
ignasbecause I was up before you i'd guess ;)16:32
th1aOh, right ;-)16:32
ignasbah, remembering is easy, but you should listen to a bunch of brittish/irish guys pronouncing it16:32
th1aWe should probably get down to business...16:32
th1aaelkner: You here?16:32
ignasth1a: i got schoolbell "possible" on friday (completely by accident) :)16:33
th1aHow are things coming, aelkner?16:33
th1aignas: ?16:33
th1aPossible what?16:33
ignaswell - i have tried to shrink testing fixture for some functional tests16:34
ignasand noticed that if i will add one more view - i can have a functional test fixture that does not use timetabling at all16:34
ignasso now you can have schooltool with persons/resources and no timetables/courses/sections/terms/schoolyears16:35
ignaswhich is kind of - "schoolbell"16:35
th1aSo it would not be very difficult.16:35
th1aaelkner: Go ahead.16:35
aelknerok, so since thursday16:35
aelkneri did a fresh install of druapel and had to figure out how to get it to stop complaining in the admin screen of two things16:36
aelknerfirst i had to un-write-protect the files dir16:36
aelknerthat was easy16:36
aelknerthen it complained anoput cron jobs bot being configured16:36
aelknerit took me a while to figure out what to do about that16:37
aelknerfinally, i chose the option of running cron.php manually16:37
aelknerand that made it stop complaining16:37
aelknerso i then had a clean install16:37
aelkneri started googling around for drupal cas docs16:38
aelknerthat took me down a few paths that bore no fruit16:38
aelknerso i decided to dig up the notes that i made with franky16:38
aelknermostly, he had some help page that he was working from16:39
aelknerunfortunately, i didn't make a note of that wen page16:39
aelknerbut i tried out the simplest parts of the notes, namely16:40
aelknerdownloading the cas tarball (version 5.2.2...)16:40
aelknerand installing it in the modules directory16:40
aelknerthat caused cas to appear in the admin->modules area16:40
aelkneri could then configure it with the connection into16:41
aelknerand as a last step, i added a block in the admin->blocks section16:41
aelknerfor cas login16:41
aelknerthat caused a CAS Login block to appear16:41
aelknerclicking on the login link did successfully redirect me to the cas server16:42
aelknerafter logging in there, it returned me to drupaled as expected16:42
aelknerbut it was still not logged in16:42
aelknerbut i learned a lot in the process16:42
aelknerrather than start applying patches16:43
aelknerand there were numerous ones in our notesd16:43
aelkneri decided to dig around more in google16:43
aelknerthen i remembered that chris had sent me a note, so i dug that up16:44
aelknerit had a link in it:
aelknerthat didn't come up in my google search16:44
aelknerbut it revealed something important16:44
aelknernamely, that version 5.2.2 has a warning next to it rather than a check box16:45
aelknerso maybe, i need to use 5-x-3.016:45
th1aWhich version of Drupal do you have?16:45
aelkneryeah, i'm trying to figure that out16:46
aelkneri thought that INSTALL.txt had it16:46
aelknerINSTALL.txt,v 2008/01/10 22:14:2416:47
aelknerbut i'm not sure now16:47
aelknerlet me look at the tarball of drupaled16:47
aelknerso that answers that question16:48
aelknerso it is 5.x16:48
aelkneras they refer to it in the drupal cas page16:48
aelknerso do you agree with my guess that 5.x-3.0 would be a better choice then the 5.x-2.2 that franky used?16:49
aelknerso that's what i'll do16:50
aelknernow, if it has a problem with me having already configured the 2.2 version16:50
aelknerlike incompatible db changes16:51
aelkneri might need to start again with a fresh install of drupal16:51
th1aIt is a logical upgrade, so presumably it doesn't wreck your system.16:51
aelknerso that's where i am16:53
th1aOK.  Sounds like things are going in the right direction.16:53
th1aWhen you log in via Drupal, CAS actually logs you in (to CAS)?16:54
aelknerno, not yet, i'll explain16:54
th1aJust Drupal doesn't get the message?16:54
aelknerwith the 5.2.2 that is16:54
aelknerso after adding the cas block16:54
aelknerbeing logged out presents me with the standard login block and the cas one16:55
aelknerthe cas one does as i explained earlier, redirecting me to the cas server and doing nothig upon return16:55
aelknerthe standard login block still works16:55
aelkneras before16:56
th1aRight, but when you log into CAS, you're logged in to CAS, right?16:56
th1aIt is presumably sending a ticket to Drupal.16:57
aelknerhmm.  i don't see a ticket in the query string upon returning from the cas server16:58
th1aIf you subsequently go directly to the CAS server are you logged in?16:59
aelkneri'm getting that problem again where the cas server locks up when i try to visit it directly17:00
aelknerthat happened before, and i couldn't figured out why17:00
aelknerno it's not locking up17:01
aelkneri mean now it's not17:02
aelknersome weird behavior there17:02
th1aDefine "locks up."17:02
aelkneri'm trying various combinations between clearing the session cookies17:03
aelknerby locks up i mean visiting
aelknerdoesn't return, and firefox shows it's busy waiting for a response17:03
aelknerwell it's not happening now17:04
th1aBut if you refresh later it works?17:04
aelknerit says this:17:05
aelknerYou are currently logged in as "admin". If this is not you, please log in below.17:05
aelknerthat's what i would expect17:05
aelkneri don't know why i fail to see the ticket upon return17:06
th1aWell, at this point you should probably just upgrade the CAS module and see what happens.17:06
th1aOnce you get that up you'll have all the CAS pieces working on the test server?  SchoolTool?17:07
aelknerI made the bog fixes to schooltool.cas as part of my two week effort to get it working and tested17:09
aelknerbut i haven't tested it out against the other apps yet17:09
aelkneri was going to do that after i got drupaled cas working17:09
aelknerbut if you want me to check into that sooner, i could17:09
th1aNo reason to.17:09
th1aAnything else aelkner?17:10
ignaswell - i have terms and schoolyears working (on a data structure level)17:11
ignaswhich means - you can add them17:11
ignasyou can work with them17:11
ignasbut not all edge cases are handled in the UI17:12
ignasand I am working now on courses + sections17:12
ignasto get it up and running17:12
ignasso I could have a more precise estimate of what is left to do17:12
ignasand how everything fits together (courses are school year based)17:12
ignasand sections are term based17:13
ignaswhich will give me specific patterns of doing term/schoolyear specific objects17:13
ignasthat I will have to propagate to schooltool17:13
ignasa lot of things are changing upside down in our functional tests, so we might have to lose sample data for the moment, and see how to implement it properly with objects being in different places of the hierarchy17:14
ignasi would like to have it closer to the CSV import functionality...17:14
ignasas in - instead of having 100% of stuff generated, you could just pretend that you are importing a fake CSV file17:15
ignasthat the system generates17:15
th1aYes, that is a good idea.17:15
ignasso if you have terms + courses + sections set up17:15
ignasyou can generate fake grades and students17:15
th1aBecause then WE need the CSV import to work.17:15
ignasinstead of having to do all or nothing17:16
ignasbut first - i want to get sections and courses in their proper places17:16
ignasand then rework functional tests17:16
ignasso they would be telling a coherent story17:16
ignasabout these objects17:17
ignasyou did not have to create a schoolyear and a term17:17
ignasto add sections or courses before17:17
ignasso i would like to have sections and courses functional for the next Monday17:18
ignasand then i will be able to precisely say what things are missing to have SchoolYears + Terms + Courses + Sections working17:19
ignasthe way they should be17:19
th1aSounds good.17:19
ignasas for the schoolbell thing17:19
ignasit might affect cando in a way ...17:20
ignasi mean - they don't use timetabling17:20
ignasso if they will ever want to - they can start thinking of ditching some zcml includes17:20
ignasnot sure how much sense it makes from their standpoint17:20
ignasbut I can recall they wanted to not see stuff they don't need17:21
ignasthat's kind of everything17:21
th1aOK.  Thanks.17:22
th1aSo I showed SchoolTool's resource booking to my friend last week, and he's going to use it this year.17:22
th1aA couple things:17:22
th1a* They've got a crazy "every teacher slightly different" timetable.17:22
th1aNothing to be done about that in the medium term but we may have to consider that as a use case eventually.17:23
ignasslightly different in what way?17:24
ignasand - I saw the bugs... I know that we got a lot of dead-ends in the system after the UI refactoring, but had no time to fix them, as for the empty booking view - well booking view needs either events in "bookers" calendar, or timetables set up...17:24
th1aEveryone's (not literally everyone's, but there are probably at least two differences per grade) periods begin at slightly different times.17:24
ignasoh, hmm17:25
ignashow does that look from student perspective?17:25
th1aAh... timetables need to be set up to use reservations?17:25
ignasthe view is for booking of resources for periods or teacher events17:26
th1aBasically, for just doing reservations, we don't need timetables.17:26
ignasso if there are no periods, and teacher has no events...17:26
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ignasthen you have to have events in teachers calendar...17:26
th1aI see.17:27
th1aIf there was a timetable but no sections, would you still see events in booking?17:27
ignasyes, i think so17:28
ignasas long as there is a default ttschema17:28
ignasand a term17:28
ignasi think17:28
th1aI can try that.17:29
th1aOK.  That gives me something to work on.17:30
th1aGuess we're done here.17:30
th1aHave a great week!17:30
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:31
ignasthanks, you too ;)17:31
th1aOh, forgot to tell ignas that when aelkner and I were meeting with Chris he was wrapping up a meeting with his new regional superintendent.17:31
th1aHe showed the super the intervention system.  The super was impressed and wanted to know when we could try it at some of the other local schools.17:32
th1aSo, last week was good for reinforcing my longstanding belief that if we can just SHIP, SchoolTool will take off.  ;-)17:34
ignasthe main thing with interventions that I would like to fix some time soonish is - email, i think we should move email code to schooltool.email17:35
ignasadd ftesting/testing hooks17:35
ignasand ship it with the core17:35
ignasso different modules could start using that functionality17:35
ignaswe have such thing in ivija, so i kind of know how it has to be done17:35
ignasto make it easy to test, and not send emails during functional or unit tests etc.17:36
th1aSounds good.17:36
ignasbecause it seems that SIS that can send emails is something people want...17:36
ignaslike - notices for bad grades, absences, interventions etc.17:37
th1aAlso, to many of our users, when it works it is like MAGIC.17:37
aelknersorry i stepped away a sec17:38
aelkneri like the idea of using schooltool.email17:39
ignasimho - this kind of thing must be central17:39
ignasas in - not a part of some other part ;)17:39
aelknerwhen i'm ready, i'll open up that discussion with you17:39
aelkneri have some issues with zope.sendmail17:40
aelknerbut i don't want to open that up right now17:40
ignaswell - you could just send me an email17:40
ignasso I would have time to think/ consult with mgedmin/alga17:40
ignasbecause I am not really a specialist of that thing17:41
aelknerok, i'll send you an email with the issue i'm having17:41
ignascool, i'll try helping you out17:41
mgedminif zope.sendmail issues could be described as bugs, is waiting for you17:41
ignasnote to self, some day somehow make it possible to set up 2 way email for schooltool17:49
ignasand make it possible for schooltool to get emails17:49
ignasnot just send them17:49
ignasmaking it possible for parents to reply to emails sent by the system17:49
ignasand get those replies posted for relevant people (teachers/advisors)17:49
ignas(it is possible, ivija can do that)17:49
ignaseven if it would be sys admin skills heavy configuration17:50
mgedminhopefully not17:51
mgedminin theory it ought to be sufficient to define a mail alias pointing to a script inside schooltool's buildbot17:51
aelknerignas: i sent you the email17:51
ignasaelkner: thanks17:52
mgedminschool-server: /opt/school/bin/process-email, or something like that17:52
mgedminerr, buildOUT17:53
ignasmgedmin: problems - you have to have the same port defined in the script as in your paste.ini in /etc/schooltool/schooltool-2008/17:54
ignasyou can have a custom schooltool instance created using bin/make-schooltool-instance17:54
mgedminbut that's easy, assuming both a generated by buildout, right?17:54
ignasthough that script could create an "email" script too17:54
mgedminor some other script17:54
ignaswell - debian17:54
mgedminmaybe look at how mailman does it?17:54
ignasfirst and most important is generated by schooltool-2008.deb17:55
ignasmgedmin: that's what alga has suggested17:55
mgedmingreat minds think alike ;)17:55
ignasso yeah, i will have to think about it, and see how it's done, and see how to implement it17:55
ignasthough - having such a thing would be totally awesome ;)17:55
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dwelshyvl:  are you Skypable?18:55
dwelshAiste & ignas:  is justas around???18:57
yvlhi dwelsh18:58
yvlin a moment18:58
dwelshyvl:  great; can we Skype you?18:58
dwelshyvl:  when you get back, that is.18:58
jelknerfilip is on his way19:00
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fsufitchjelkner: hi! :)19:00
jelknerhi fsufitch!19:01
dwelshfsufitch:  can we call you?19:01
yvlhi Jeff, hi Filip19:01
fsufitchdwelsh: do you think i could skype call you instead?19:02
fsufitchlike via skypeout19:02
fsufitchthat way i dont have to hold a phone to my ear ;)19:02
dwelshfsifitch, what is your Skype handle???19:03
fsufitchit's fsufitch19:03
fsufitchi got your phone #, and i can call out of skype cuz i have a subscription...19:05
dwelshfsufitch:  I'll call you.19:07
dwelshGet your headset ready19:07
dwelshCall me.  You show as unavailable.19:07
fsufitchdwelsh: i can't hear you...19:10
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dwelshphilip, can't you get near a phone???19:10
dwelshskype conference is a little iffy19:10
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