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| ignas | th1a: good morning | 16:03 |
|---|---|---|
| th1a | Hi ignas. | 16:03 |
| ignas | sorry, but I forgot to tell you about my chat with lyceum about you visiting them | 16:04 |
| ignas | it seems that comming before the conference | 16:04 |
| ignas | is not really feasible | 16:04 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:05 |
| ignas | it's the very middle of summer, and the only time we could meet with Bronius would be around sprinting or some time around | 16:05 |
| ignas | not neccesserily in the school though | 16:05 |
| ignas | i mean - just having a lunch might be enough... | 16:05 |
| ignas | i mean if you'd be interested and we'd find the time... | 16:06 |
| ignas | we still have a month to think about it ;) | 16:06 |
| th1a | It would be good to have lunch. | 16:07 |
| th1a | I just needed to know when I should fly in and out. | 16:07 |
| th1a | Ah... solved my little bzr problem myself just before bugging you... | 16:08 |
| th1a | Forgot to put my username@ in my push url. | 16:08 |
| th1a | Launchpad/bzr's error message isn't very helpful. | 16:08 |
| mgedmin | that's probably fixable in ~/.ssh/config too | 16:08 |
| mgedmin | I find it convenient to define my usernames for various ssh servers there | 16:09 |
| mgedmin | so that I can tell just the server name (or an alias) to ssh/svn/bzr | 16:09 |
| th1a | ah. | 16:09 |
| th1a | mgedmin: I enjoyed your conference reports. | 16:11 |
| lisppaste5 | ignas pasted "The snippet of ~/.ssh/config" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/61575 | 16:11 |
| mgedmin | heh, and I enjoyed the conference itself | 16:11 |
| mgedmin | advice for speakers: try to speak as soon as possible | 16:11 |
| mgedmin | you'll only be able to relax afterwards | 16:11 |
| th1a | Indeed. | 16:11 |
| th1a | Of course, everyone knows that, so you also tend to need some pull to get those spots. | 16:12 |
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| aelkner | wbrady: tel jelkner that i made his chane last week, but matt needs to install first, then talk to me | 16:29 |
| Lumiere | morning all | 16:30 |
| th1a | Good morning. | 16:30 |
| ignas | hi everyone | 16:31 |
| wbrady | aelkner: im not with jelkner | 16:31 |
| aelkner | oh | 16:31 |
| wbrady | but i will see him for lunch if you want me to tell him then | 16:32 |
| aelkner | that's cool. he'll probably contact me by then | 16:32 |
| wbrady | ok | 16:32 |
| aelkner | ignas: when i committed my change to schooltool.gradebook to my branch, did you see that? | 16:33 |
| ignas | no, didn't see that i think | 16:33 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: wbrady is at ACC for the remainder of the school year | 16:33 |
| ignas | emails don't get sent for such branches | 16:33 |
| Lumiere | hgrover however is at Yorktown and could relay a message | 16:34 |
| aelkner | that's a problem | 16:34 |
| * Lumiere knows by their IP address | 16:34 | |
| hgrover | i can tell him that, actually | 16:34 |
| aelkner | ignas: in addition to all the other hastles, do we have to lose email notification? | 16:35 |
| ignas | well - we haven't lost it, but it's only for branches that are being tracked | 16:35 |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 16:35 | |
| th1a | LP does emails. | 16:35 |
| aelkner | so how do i get my branches tracked | 16:35 |
| ignas | you can register your branch with launchpad | 16:36 |
| ignas | and subscribe schooltool checkins user to them | 16:36 |
| ignas | if you want your branch tracked | 16:36 |
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| ignas | bzr push it to lp:~aelkner/schooltool/your_branch first | 16:38 |
| ignas | oh | 16:38 |
| ignas | sorry | 16:38 |
| ignas | don't | 16:38 |
| ignas | you go to launchpad | 16:38 |
| ignas | and well - register a branch | 16:38 |
| ignas | ;) | 16:38 |
| ignas | i'll look for the link | 16:38 |
| th1a | Dr. Strangemerge or: How aelkner Learned to Stop Worrying and Love bzr. | 16:38 |
| aelkner | tolerate will be more likely scenario | 16:39 |
| ignas | https://code.launchpad.net/schooltool | 16:39 |
| ignas | there is a button | 16:39 |
| th1a | https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/+addbranch | 16:39 |
| ignas | not owners | 16:39 |
| ignas | it's better to register your personal branches | 16:39 |
| ignas | personally ;)( | 16:39 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:40 |
| aelkner | :) | 16:40 |
| th1a | aelkner: So you're feeling pretty confident about CAS right now? | 16:41 |
| aelkner | not too bad, my problem is with schooltool.cas looping infinitely at the moment | 16:42 |
| aelkner | but i should be able to figure it out soon | 16:42 |
| th1a | jelkner wants to start flogging it in Mass? | 16:43 |
| aelkner | oh, we'll be veterans by then | 16:43 |
| aelkner | btw, when is Mass | 16:43 |
| aelkner | still August? | 16:43 |
| th1a | I believe. | 16:44 |
| aelkner | ignas: are you using schooltool.cas at lyceum? | 16:45 |
| ignas | nope | 16:45 |
| ignas | it would have tests if we were... | 16:45 |
| th1a | I'm neutral on whether or not this is worth giving a talk, etc. at the conference. Maybe a BOF. | 16:45 |
| aelkner | which conf, Mass or EuroPython? | 16:46 |
| th1a | Mass. | 16:46 |
| aelkner | That conf is pretty loose | 16:46 |
| aelkner | you could probably decide a month from now | 16:46 |
| jelkner | th1a: i'm waiting to talk to you about Mass. | 16:46 |
| ignas | my "definition" for EP is: (Speaker, Omnivore, Large Tee) | 16:47 |
| jelkner | let me know when you have a moment | 16:47 |
| aelkner | i mean, emails suggested that it might not even happen | 16:47 |
| jelkner | aelkner: it will happen | 16:47 |
| aelkner | jelkner: what's the status of the Mass conf | 16:47 |
| aelkner | oh | 16:47 |
| aelkner | when? | 16:47 |
| jelkner | especially if we do a little promotion for it | 16:47 |
| th1a | jelkner: You're waiting to call or chat here? | 16:47 |
| jelkner | i'll call | 16:47 |
| jelkner | (hurts my fingers less ;-) | 16:47 |
| jelkner | is now a good time? | 16:47 |
| th1a | I;m a little busy right now. | 16:48 |
| th1a | Anyhow, let's get this in gear. | 16:48 |
| th1a | ignas: What's up? | 16:48 |
| jelkner | th1a: ok, this afternoon then? | 16:48 |
| th1a | Right after the meeting would be fine. | 16:48 |
| jelkner | cool | 16:48 |
| ignas | th1a: not much, nearly finished with "today", but then got sidetracked by related and semi related activities | 16:49 |
| ignas | like - ongoing bzr migration | 16:49 |
| ignas | which lead to remote desktop setup for aelkner ;) | 16:49 |
| th1a | I saw. | 16:49 |
| ignas | removing of attendance from trunk, which lead to deprecation of old evolution scripts, which reminded me that we should get rid of schoolbell | 16:50 |
| ignas | which I did | 16:50 |
| ignas | so now trunk has no BBB and deprecation stuff | 16:50 |
| ignas | and no magical reimports, circular import chickens | 16:50 |
| ignas | and displays a clear warning | 16:50 |
| ignas | to upgrade to 2008.04 first | 16:50 |
| ignas | before migrating to trunk | 16:50 |
| th1a | Nice. | 16:51 |
| ignas | i was planning to do these things immediatelly after our release, but somehow forgot ... | 16:51 |
| th1a | RIP SchoolBell. | 16:51 |
| aelkner | cool | 16:51 |
| ignas | yep, the name is free again, so if someone will want to create a school setup for schoolbell - he can use the name ;) | 16:52 |
| th1a | It could be done... by someone else. | 16:52 |
| ignas | yes :D | 16:52 |
| ignas | one more thing i just have to do some time sooner rather than later is come up with a strategy for translations | 16:52 |
| ignas | either - extract it into 1 file, upload it to launchpad and create tools to split it | 16:53 |
| ignas | into all the eggs | 16:53 |
| ignas | or upload 5 separate translation templates | 16:53 |
| ignas | one for every egg | 16:53 |
| ignas | one is more confusing to translators, the other means more work for me upfront | 16:53 |
| ignas | but we should get translations going | 16:54 |
| th1a | Agreed. | 16:54 |
| ignas | that's kind of it | 16:54 |
| th1a | What is the difference from the translator's point of view? | 16:54 |
| ignas | well - you either have 1 single translation page in launchpad | 16:54 |
| ignas | that has all the strings for schooltool | 16:54 |
| ignas | or you have 5, 6 or 7 translation templates | 16:55 |
| ignas | each of them duplicating some strings like "Title" | 16:55 |
| ignas | for every translation domain | 16:55 |
| th1a | What's a "domain" in this case? | 16:55 |
| ignas | well - every egg should have a separate translation domain | 16:56 |
| ignas | like "schooltool" | 16:56 |
| ignas | "schooltool.commendation" | 16:56 |
| ignas | "schooltool.lyceum.journal" | 16:56 |
| ignas | etc. | 16:56 |
| ignas | because every egg should carry it's own translations in itself | 16:56 |
| th1a | I think it is fine to keep them separate. | 16:56 |
| th1a | Since down the road different countries will be using different components. | 16:56 |
| ignas | we can try doing that too | 16:57 |
| ignas | i am a it worried about the "translate Title 5 times" | 16:57 |
| ignas | for every component you are using | 16:57 |
| ignas | situation though | 16:57 |
| th1a | I guess it just depends on how extreme the repetition is. | 16:57 |
| ignas | because you translate "first name" and "last name" and still can see them in english in some places | 16:57 |
| th1a | Also, won't LP at least make suggestions for things that have already been translated? | 16:58 |
| ignas | yes it will | 16:58 |
| ignas | which makes the situation quite a lot more bearable | 16:58 |
| ignas | so yeah, i will think about it and pick some compromise that works | 16:58 |
| ignas | both from the packaging side | 16:59 |
| ignas | and from the translation side | 16:59 |
| th1a | I think translating components you aren't going to use as part of one big lump is more annoying than a little repetition. | 16:59 |
| ignas | probably | 17:00 |
| ignas | zope people are going for single file approach | 17:01 |
| ignas | because 140 translation pages | 17:01 |
| ignas | + 100 languages | 17:01 |
| th1a | Yes... that's a bit much. | 17:01 |
| ignas | makes it very difficult to manage | 17:01 |
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| ignas | 10 packages + 20 languages will still make it cumbersome, but we can switch to something more convenient later if we'll need to | 17:01 |
| th1a | I think it is reasonable. | 17:02 |
| th1a | Moving on... | 17:02 |
| th1a | I added a basic page about ZODB administration to the SchoolTool book: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/schooltool/users-guide | 17:02 |
| th1a | It would be good if our actual Zope sys admins looked at it to see if I'm on crack. | 17:03 |
| th1a | It basically just says "The data is here; stop the server before you back up the file; you occasionally have to hit this "Pack" button." | 17:04 |
| ignas | looks sane to me | 17:05 |
| th1a | Have any of us done hot backups of the ZODB? | 17:05 |
| *** wbrady has quit IRC | 17:05 | |
| ignas | i don't know i'd have to ask my coworkers about backing up ZODB | 17:05 |
| ignas | mgedmin and alga are doing that in PoV | 17:05 |
| mgedmin | ahem | 17:06 |
| mgedmin | ZODB is append-only (except for the "transaction is complete" flag), so we just tar up the files | 17:06 |
| mgedmin | at worst we'll get an incomplete transaction record at the end that ZODB will automatically ignore | 17:06 |
| mgedmin | there are proper hot-backup tools out there somewhere, though | 17:07 |
| Lumiere | where is the pack button | 17:07 |
| ignas | so the worst case is as if you started backing up 5 minutes before the moment you actually started backing up | 17:07 |
| ignas | Lumiere: Manage -> Application Control -> somewhere | 17:07 |
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| th1a | Lumiere: Read my book! | 17:07 |
| ignas | :D | 17:08 |
| th1a | rmfm. | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | th1a: well last time I had asked | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | it didn't exist ;) | 17:08 |
| th1a | The button or the book? | 17:08 |
| th1a | Or both? | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | both | 17:08 |
| wbrady | Lumiere: when r u coming in today? | 17:09 |
| ignas | Lumiere: when was the last time? | 17:09 |
| ignas | Lumiere: the button is there for the past 6 months i think | 17:09 |
| th1a | But with crappy navigation and no book, who knew? | 17:10 |
| ignas | in schooltool trunk though | 17:10 |
| ignas | so it was not available to CanDo | 17:10 |
| Lumiere | wbrady: noonish | 17:10 |
| Lumiere | ignas: ok | 17:10 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Anything in particular to report out to this group? | 17:12 |
| wbrady | Lumiere: welsh says what's your problem? people need you in here | 17:13 |
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| th1a | I guess Lumiere is being paged irl. | 17:15 |
| th1a | OK... other things... | 17:15 |
| th1a | May invoices. | 17:15 |
| th1a | I probably need to explain to aelkner exactly how his bonus works, right? | 17:15 |
| aelkner | i was going to call you about that :) | 17:16 |
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| th1a | I should probably write it down. | 17:17 |
| Lumiere | nope | 17:17 |
| Lumiere | wbrady: I'll call his cell | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | <_< | 17:18 |
| aelkner | th1a: ping me when you're off the phone with jelkner | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | If people want to change my schedule | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | they should tell me | 17:18 |
| th1a | Also, book your flight to Vilnius this week -- | 17:18 |
| aelkner | that was part of what i wanted to talk to you about | 17:18 |
| th1a | Crap! We missed early registration... | 17:19 |
| th1a | ignas should have warned me about that ;-) | 17:19 |
| * ignas ? | 17:19 | |
| th1a | Can we use our inside connections to catch a break? | 17:19 |
| ignas | I only found out about when the conference will be last week ;) | 17:19 |
| ignas | ask Aiste about that ;) | 17:19 |
| th1a | OK aelkner: leave the US Saturday the 5th, arriving the 6th, leaving the 13th. | 17:20 |
| aelkner | th1a: ok | 17:21 |
| th1a | OK, that's all I've got. | 17:23 |
| th1a | Any last words? | 17:23 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:23 | |
| aelkner | no last words, but can i have a blindfold and a last cigarette | 17:24 |
| th1a | Have a great week! | 17:24 |
| th1a | jelkner: You can call me. | 17:24 |
| Lumiere | wbrady: just got welsh | 17:26 |
| wbrady | Lumiere: good stuff | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | I'll be in a little earlier then usual ;) | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | gonna grab my shower right now, should be in 11:30 ish | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | especially since acc webserver and acc cando are down | 17:29 |
| tdoggette_ | What does SchoolTool use for user login and authentication? | 17:35 |
| Lumiere | http basic | 17:37 |
| tdoggette_ | Where's it stored? | 17:37 |
| tdoggette_ | I want to use existing Schooltool login info for elkner's doctestquiz app | 17:38 |
| aelkner | tdoggette_: the request object has a principal attribute | 17:50 |
| tdoggette_ | aelkner: Is there documentation? | 17:51 |
| aelkner | i would pdb in any view and dir(request.principal) | 17:51 |
| aelkner | you should get used to using pdb | 17:51 |
| aelkner | it's faster than looking for docs | 17:51 |
| tdoggette_ | Keen. | 17:52 |
| tdoggette_ | Thanks. | 17:52 |
| aelkner | keen, indeed | 17:52 |
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| *** mgallagh is now known as mattva01 | 17:53 | |
| aelkner | mattva01: you need to ping me when you finished installing schooltool with bzr repos | 17:54 |
| aelkner | i made a change to something that you won't get unless you follow an additional step | 17:54 |
| mattva01 | yep nearly done | 17:54 |
| aelkner | but don't worry about that until you already have schooltool running | 17:54 |
| mattva01 | I am supposed to be running jelkner2007 right? | 17:56 |
| aelkner | you should follow the instructions on ignas' help page | 17:57 |
| aelkner | and if you have problems, you should let ignas know | 17:57 |
| mattva01 | yeah but that checks out EVERYTHING | 17:57 |
| aelkner | so that he can make the page more clear | 17:57 |
| mattva01 | ok ,i'll talk to him | 17:57 |
| aelkner | do it in this channel | 17:58 |
| aelkner | so we can all benefit | 17:58 |
| aelkner | mattva01: ok? | 17:58 |
| mattva01 | which branch will your changes be in | 17:58 |
| mattva01 | aelkner:k | 17:58 |
| ignas | aelkner: which branches are you going to have? i can only see schooltool_sla branch in there | 17:58 |
| aelkner | like i said, get it working first | 17:58 |
| ignas | just tell us, please | 17:59 |
| aelkner | i haven't created the prefix yet | 17:59 |
| ignas | oh | 17:59 |
| aelkner | but why do you need to know | 17:59 |
| aelkner | ignas: matt should be able to follow a sript | 17:59 |
| aelkner | and get it working | 18:00 |
| ignas | so at the moment we should use the actual things | 18:00 |
| aelkner | then, i can deliver him the special branch i made | 18:00 |
| mattva01 | ah ok | 18:00 |
| ignas | and switch when you will actually add the branches | 18:00 |
| aelkner | i only modified my own branch of schooltool.gradebook | 18:00 |
| mattva01 | that makes more sense | 18:01 |
| aelkner | and i will publish the prefix when matt has bin/test-all and make run working | 18:01 |
| ignas | aelkner: could you stop saying "publish the prefix" | 18:01 |
| ignas | it does not make sense as a phrase | 18:01 |
| ignas | you are publishing your branch | 18:01 |
| ignas | the prefix part is so you would create all the directories in there | 18:02 |
| ignas | so if there is only directory aelkner, and you want to put a branch in aelkner/schooltoo.gradebook/my_gradebook_branch | 18:02 |
| ignas | the prefix command tells bzr that it should just go and create the schooltool.gradebook directory | 18:02 |
| ignas | instead of giving you an error | 18:02 |
| ignas | it's like "mkdir -p" | 18:03 |
| aelkner | sorry, when i see a command of bzr push --create-prefix, i figure that i'm creating a prefix | 18:05 |
| aelkner | i understand your analogy to mkdir | 18:05 |
| ignas | aelkner: which is why i dislike writing "scripts" for you to follow | 18:05 |
| ignas | because you can make assumptions without knowing what precisely it does :/ | 18:06 |
| ignas | so instead of learning the actual model and using the tool, it's too easy to build the wrong underlying model | 18:07 |
| ignas | which leads to "cargo cult" programming :/ | 18:07 |
| aelkner | cargo cult? | 18:08 |
| ignas | http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CargoCult | 18:08 |
| ignas | ok, wrong definition | 18:09 |
| ignas | you should look it up in wikipedia | 18:09 |
| ignas | http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CargoCultProgramming is more precise | 18:09 |
| aelkner | ignas: i don't see your argument | 18:14 |
| aelkner | in my opinion, systems need to be reliable | 18:14 |
| aelkner | processees repatable | 18:15 |
| aelkner | repeatable | 18:15 |
| aelkner | if you can't explain it, then it's too complex | 18:15 |
| aelkner | for exmple | 18:15 |
| aelkner | telling someone who wants to install your prodyuct | 18:15 |
| ignas | i can explain it, and there are a lot of explanations in bzr website | 18:15 |
| aelkner | you have to learn how to progam unix | 18:15 |
| aelkner | would put off most customers | 18:15 |
| ignas | installing of schooltool is easy, it's 5-6 lines and you don't have to know neither unix nor bzr for that | 18:16 |
| aelkner | there should be a limit to how many ways to do things | 18:16 |
| ignas | but if you want to develop schooltool | 18:16 |
| ignas | you must know bzr and must know enough linux | 18:16 |
| aelkner | i exagerate of course | 18:16 |
| ignas | it's not about how many ways to do it | 18:16 |
| aelkner | i was just making an analogy | 18:16 |
| aelkner | i'm just telling you, jason is going to need to talk to you to install | 18:17 |
| aelkner | and that will make myself, matt, jason | 18:17 |
| aelkner | next person who wants to install | 18:17 |
| ignas | "to install" | 18:17 |
| aelkner | they will need to talk to you, too | 18:17 |
| aelkner | ok, relying on eggs is not useful for most users | 18:18 |
| ignas | what does it mean "to install" if you are deploying a custom schooltool based on bleeding edge checkouts of branches that are not in trunk | 18:18 |
| ignas | then yes - it's difficult | 18:18 |
| aelkner | they will need to follow the steps for using the branches | 18:18 |
| aelkner | and then when a developer makes n update | 18:18 |
| aelkner | bind to the newly published branch | 18:19 |
| aelkner | it's a matter of feature delivery turnaround time | 18:19 |
| ignas | you see - just making someone follow the steps on that page | 18:19 |
| ignas | the very steps meant for you and eldar | 18:19 |
| ignas | does not make sense for anyone who knows what he is doing | 18:19 |
| ignas | because checking out schooltool.lyceum.journal and stapp2008spring | 18:19 |
| ignas | for a jelkner2007 user | 18:20 |
| ignas | is not necessary | 18:20 |
| aelkner | it is if i want to be able to deliver immediately | 18:20 |
| ignas | nope | 18:20 |
| ignas | no relation whatsoever ... these 2 components are not being used in jelkner2007 | 18:21 |
| aelkner | how does matt get my new schooltool.gradebook changes? | 18:21 |
| ignas | well - by checking out schooltool.gradebook | 18:21 |
| ignas | how is schooltool.lyceum.journal related to that? | 18:21 |
| aelkner | it's not | 18:21 |
| aelkner | i'm just saying | 18:21 |
| aelkner | if the user has a script for checking out all the branches | 18:22 |
| aelkner | and then a script for getting changes from a developer | 18:22 |
| aelkner | that woudl help | 18:22 |
| ignas | you can create one | 18:22 |
| ignas | specially for jelkner2007 checkout even | 18:22 |
| ignas | with only the parts that have to be there | 18:22 |
| aelkner | one should be sufficient for kelkner2007 and cando | 18:23 |
| aelkner | and any other installation for that matter | 18:23 |
| ignas | with lightweight checkouts even | 18:23 |
| ignas | nope | 18:23 |
| ignas | why do you want people getting more stuff than they need? | 18:23 |
| ignas | neither cando nor jelkner2007 is using stapp2008 nor schooltool.lyceum.journal | 18:23 |
| mattva01 | i'm doing lightweight checkouts, thats fine right? | 18:24 |
| ignas | why get them? users will have to wait longer, and deal with more things that can fail... | 18:24 |
| ignas | mattva01: i think it will work in this case | 18:24 |
| mattva01 | its just was taking too damn long the normal way | 18:24 |
| aelkner | lightweight is for users, right? | 18:25 |
| aelkner | they don't need history | 18:25 |
| ignas | not just history, they don't need the ability to commit local changes, nor fast bzr diff and bzr status even | 18:26 |
| ignas | understanding what is a lightweight checkout, what is a checkout and what is a branch would make it a bit easier :/ | 18:26 |
| aelkner | ignas: that's jmust it, the flaw in relying on people to understand things at the same level as you | 18:28 |
| aelkner | matt knows bzr | 18:28 |
| aelkner | yet he still asked | 18:28 |
| aelkner | what does that tell you | 18:28 |
| aelkner | it tells me that we need to anticpate these questions | 18:28 |
| th1a | We simply have a complex use case. | 18:28 |
| aelkner | and write scripts | 18:28 |
| th1a | Multiple complex use cases. | 18:29 |
| aelkner | so we need to devide and conquer | 18:29 |
| aelkner | and write scripts for each case | 18:29 |
| aelkner | i know that i ask alot here | 18:29 |
| th1a | Here's what I want: aelkner to spend more time with bzr documentation. | 18:29 |
| ignas | aelkner: then write them | 18:29 |
| ignas | aelkner: you should be the person who can and is writing them | 18:29 |
| aelkner | could be | 18:30 |
| aelkner | but that adds time to my ability to deliver by August 15 | 18:31 |
| ignas | yes it does, we all have deadlines | 18:31 |
| ignas | i can't write you a perfect bzr manual | 18:31 |
| ignas | that is short enough for you to read... | 18:31 |
| ignas | because that takes me even more time than it takes you to learn bzr ... | 18:31 |
| th1a | Exactly. | 18:32 |
| aelkner | i'm not just thinking about me learning it, it's everyone else | 18:32 |
| aelkner | and that list is growing | 18:32 |
| aelkner | we have people in Richmond | 18:32 |
| aelkner | although | 18:32 |
| aelkner | they probably won;'t need quick turnaround | 18:32 |
| ignas | noone except you and eldar has to know how to do feature branches | 18:32 |
| ignas | the rest of them can use a script | 18:33 |
| ignas | that you can write | 18:33 |
| aelkner | yeah, maybe at the June cando sprint we can work on that | 18:33 |
| th1a | There is no getting around the fact that to do your job now you have to *understand* bzr, aelkner. | 18:34 |
| aelkner | i'll understand bzr when all is said in done | 18:34 |
| aelkner | that was not my point | 18:34 |
| ignas | i can spend time explaining schooltool repository layout for someone who knows bzr and buildout, but writing a schooltool specific bzr manual for someone who only knows svn is just too much... next i'll be writing Zope3 tutorials ;) | 18:34 |
| aelkner | look, before we made the switch to bzr | 18:35 |
| aelkner | when i made a change to something that jeff needed immediately | 18:35 |
| ignas | and before we had releases | 18:35 |
| aelkner | here was my instructions to him | 18:35 |
| aelkner | "make update" | 18:35 |
| aelkner | "make update"done | 18:35 |
| aelkner | cpmpare that top now | 18:35 |
| ignas | what is preventing you from doing that now? replace all the svn stuff | 18:35 |
| ignas | with bzr lightweight stuff | 18:36 |
| ignas | in jelkner2007-buildout | 18:36 |
| ignas | and it will work | 18:36 |
| ignas | when deploying | 18:36 |
| aelkner | now if i make a change, i need to publish a branch and tell them to bind to it | 18:37 |
| ignas | well - yes, because you can't commit to trunk | 18:37 |
| ignas | and why you can't commit to trunk? because we have releases, and are developing features in branches... | 18:37 |
| ignas | it's not bzr related | 18:37 |
| ignas | you would have had to do svn switches instead of bind | 18:38 |
| aelkner | i understand | 18:38 |
| aelkner | i was spoiled before | 18:38 |
| aelkner | perhaps i could publish my own branches of each package | 18:39 |
| ignas | it does not have to be any more difficult to users, they won't have to do "bind" if you will create the branches upfront | 18:39 |
| ignas | yes you can | 18:39 |
| aelkner | and then put them in the make file | 18:39 |
| aelkner | that cold work | 18:39 |
| ignas | yes that would work | 18:39 |
| ignas | and you will have full control over when new stuff from trunk get's deployed for Jeff | 18:40 |
| aelkner | yes, that would work well | 18:40 |
| ignas | because you will have to bzr pull or bzr merge from trunk | 18:40 |
| ignas | into your deployment branches | 18:40 |
| aelkner | so on my machine i can bzr merge each of my branches from trunk | 18:41 |
| aelkner | and make sure the tests pass | 18:41 |
| aelkner | before i tell matt to make update | 18:41 |
| ignas | before you commit even | 18:41 |
| ignas | you can even have these branches in aelkner/jeff/schooltool aelkner/jeff/schooltool.gradebook ... | 18:41 |
| ignas | i mean - it's your own sandbox for these things, so it's up to you to organize it | 18:42 |
| aelkner | i see how i can get sla and jelkner2007 back to make updatable now | 18:43 |
| aelkner | mattva01: how is it going? | 18:44 |
| mattva01 | good will be done in just a sec | 18:44 |
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| ignas | aelkner: i am helping mattva01 to set up everything using jelkner2007-buildout, so when you will update it, he will only have to bzr up the buildout ... | 19:29 |
| ignas | won't you mind if i will commit come fixes to jelkner2007-buildout ? | 19:30 |
| aelkner | ignas: couldn't you do this in the publc channel so that i can see what you';re up to? | 19:30 |
| ignas | i will have to look at his current setup using ssh | 19:31 |
| ignas | which is difficult to externalizre | 19:31 |
| aelkner | oh | 19:31 |
| aelkner | ignas: to answer your question, i haven't touched jelkner2007-buildout | 19:32 |
| aelkner | i don't even use sla's buildout to install to sla anymore | 19:33 |
| ignas | i wanted to know - if you don't mind me setting it up mostly the way it should be | 19:33 |
| aelkner | i use stapp2008spring | 19:33 |
| aelkner | and make the buildout changes there | 19:33 |
| aelkner | but maybe you're right in wanting to change jelkner2007-buildout | 19:33 |
| aelkner | if that's what works easily, just let me know what i have to do on my machine when you have it working with matt | 19:34 |
| ignas | what do you mean - do on your machine? | 19:35 |
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| aelkner | i mean, if you're setting up matt, my machine should have the same setup | 19:38 |
| aelkner | so that i can deploy changes in the future | 19:38 |
| ignas | ? | 19:39 |
| ignas | if matt is using lightweight checkouts | 19:39 |
| ignas | it does not mean you should use them too | 19:39 |
| ignas | as long as your jelkner2007 instance is working with same components that mat is using - everything will work properly | 19:39 |
| aelkner | i thought you said you were changing jelkner2007-buildout | 19:44 |
| ignas | yes i did | 19:44 |
| aelkner | if that's the case, i'd like to use those changes | 19:44 |
| ignas | ok, i have to go now, tell mat that he should bzr up jelkner2007-buildout | 19:44 |
| ignas | and try "make run" | 19:44 |
| aelkner | ok | 19:44 |
| ignas | and remove "jelkner2007" directory from his "jelkner2007-buildout" | 19:45 |
| ignas | the same setup should work in the usual schooltool sandbox too | 19:46 |
| ignas | in both "make dev" and "make build" modes | 19:46 |
| ignas | at least - make run works in my sandbox, because it can find all the necessary parts in my sandbox | 19:46 |
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