IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2008-05-23

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mattva01weird issue, cando crashes without an error17:09
mattva01anyone else had an issue like that recently17:09
mattva01anyone here?17:20
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mattva01weird issue, cando is crashing  without an error when students try to use it17:32
ignasthe crash is visible as what?17:33
mattva01well the instance dies17:34
ignasany user trying to access cando on any IP crashes the system?17:35
mattva01I  have not had an opportunity to check what specific user behavior causes this behavior17:35
mattva01not not exactly17:35
ignasi see17:35
ignasany information in access.log for example?17:36
mattva01basically, it crashes every day at arount 9:50 , when students are using the journalling system17:36
mattva01alot of connections per second though17:36
ignasit still should be visible, like - the last url requested17:37
ignasthe output of the application into the console17:37
ignasbefore craching17:37
mattva01nope just last url17:37
ignaswhat kind of sandbox is it?17:38
ignasor something else?17:38
ignasis there an "instance/" directory17:38
mattva01its trunk :(17:39
ignascando trunk17:39
ignasand how are you daemonizing the thing?17:40
mattva01well since it crashed the first time  "make run &"17:41
ignasemm, that does not give us any output17:42
ignasthat was being written to stdout17:42
ignasand stderr17:42
mattva01yeah I know17:42
ignaswhich kind of limits my ability to diagnose the issue :/17:42
mattva01how would you prefer I start it17:43
aelkneris it the app that's crashing or the machine?17:43
mattva01machines been up a while17:43
aelknerone thing to try is make run > /dev/null &17:43
ignashmm, your options are - using screen17:43
ignasand not /dev/null17:44
ignas /some/text_file17:44
ignasmaybe use "tee"17:44
ignasto get both stdout and stderr17:44
ignasin there17:44
ignasand write me an email as soon as you get something17:44
ignaslike - is it a segfault17:45
ignasor is it a traceback from zope17:45
mgedminnohup might help too17:47
mgedmin'nohup command &' will put all stdout & stderr into a file called nohup.out17:48
mattva01hmm it got a lock error but did not die17:56
ignaslock error?18:01
ignasthere is a chance that cando was dying because it tried outputing stuff to stdout or stderr and could not "find" one...18:03
mattva01ZODB.lock_file.LockError: Couldn't lock 'var/Data.fs.lock'18:07
ignashmm, which means that last time zope crashed18:12
ignasand left Data.fs.lock file18:12
ignasin there18:13
ignasi don't know for sure18:13
mattva01could be18:16
aelknercould it be that the machine is having a problem obtaining locks in general18:17
aelknerthat would explain it having problems with stdout18:17
aelknerlike it couldn't lock it, so it crashes18:18
aelknerleaving no output as evidence18:18
mattva01thats an interesting idea18:20
ignasnot sure whether locks and stdout that is not there work the same way18:21
mattva01it does write to stdout though18:21
ignascould you give me the full outupt18:23
ignasand the full error18:23
ignasand try removing the lock after you shutdown the server18:25
ignasand starting it up then18:25
mattva01hmm your pastebot seems to be down18:26
mattva01using pastebin18:26
ignasit's not mine ;) but yeah, it seems to be having problems lately18:26
ignasrm the lock file18:27
ignasand start the server again18:27
ignasand check if the server is not running18:27
ignasbecuse it might be that the server is up already18:27
ignasand is using the Data.fs18:27
mattva01server was down18:30
ignasthen remove the lock and start it up18:30
mattva01k no lock error18:34
mattva01well we'll have to wait till tuesday to see if that worked18:36
th1aCan't we test it somehow?19:20
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th1aignas: Is SchoolTool (Zope) performance slower under devmode?19:45
ignasth1a: not sure really, it should not be affected from what i know19:56
th1aignas: Thanks.19:56
th1aI assume it is required to stop SchoolTool to back up the Data.fs?20:19
ignashmm, not really sure you can "stop" schooltool, i think you have to /etc/init.d/schooltool-2008 stop20:33
ignason ubuntu20:33
ignasand Ctrl+C in development20:33
ignaspacking of the database20:33
ignasis in schooltool without devmode from what i can recall20:33
ignasthough you might want to check20:33
ignasif you can see "Application Control" link20:34
ignasin the Manage tab20:34
ignaswithout devmode20:34
th1aignas: OK.20:36
aelknerth1a: something interesting came up this wed20:37
aelknermarcie wanted to add a student to all of his sections20:37
aelknerand she wondered if there was one screen to do that20:37
aelkneri only knew of the way of going to each section and adding the student there20:37
aelknerbut i could write the other way pretty easily20:38
ignasthere was, the link is hidden though, and the view is not very convenient20:38
th1aDoes the "schedule" action still exist?20:38
ignasyes, with all the conflicts, and all the timetabling stuff20:38
aelkneri never heard of this one20:38
th1aIt is tricker than it seems.20:38
ignasthough - probably a new "membership" based view might be a bit more convenient20:38
ignasbecause it would work without timetables in sections20:38
aelknerthat's what i was thinking20:38
th1aBut... essential in the next year.20:38
aelknerthe membership views are excellent20:39
aelknereasy to use20:39
aelknerand covering the whole search logic20:39
aelknerso if i just create a new view that does the same thing20:39
ignasyeah, they will do for now pretty well20:39
ignaswe can add conflict handling later20:39
ignasand it will be better than the timetabling based views i think20:39
ignasaelkner: scheduling conflicts among sections20:40
th1aIdeally you want to have a grid of the school week and plug sections in and immediately see when all the sections meet.20:40
aelkneroh, you're thinking time20:40
ignasadding a person to 2 sections that are both scheduled on the same day20:40
th1aAjax would help a lot with that.20:40
th1aBut doing it right is genuinely difficult.20:40
th1aSo if you can do something easier that works, fine.20:41
aelkneri wouldn't want to lose the view that we have for membership20:41
aelknerit's really clean20:41
ignasso you can just use that, because it's a part of functionality that is missing at the moment20:41
aelknerwe could discuss the conflict issue ay europython20:42
th1aBasically, there are two levels of views here:20:42
ignasbecause the old solution is quite unusable in the usual case20:42
th1a*) I know what sections Jimmy will be in and I want to add them quickly;20:42
th1a*) I don't know what sections Jimmy will be in and I'd like SchoolTool to help me figure it out.20:42
th1aIn real life, the second one comes down to working out a timetable without conflicts.20:43
ignasand working it out using a single sudent centric view20:44
ignasis pretty much impossible20:44
th1aNot really.20:44
th1aBut it is probably more difficult than any other view we have, except the calendars.20:45
aelknerpractically speaking, marcie isn't gong to schedule a kid for conflicting schedules20:45
th1aThat view could take weeks.20:45
aelknerso for short term, i'm ok20:45
aelkneri just need to create the first view you mentioned20:45
th1aWell, at this point she's going to figure out the schedule by hand and then enter it.20:45
th1aNot use ST to figure it out.20:46
aelknerso for now, we're cool20:46
aelkneri'll just create the membership view20:46
aelknershould that go in schooltool.course or schooltool.basicperson?20:46
th1aIf Marcy is happy, I'm happy.20:46
ignasaelkner: course20:46
aelknermakes sense20:47
ignasit might be a bit more tricky that you'd expect though20:47
th1aOh... let's meet Tuesday next week.20:48
th1aMonday is a holiday here.20:48
ignasthe section -> member relationship is a bit messed up20:48
ignasth1a: ok20:48
aelknerignas: how's that?20:48
aelknerit works nicely from the user perspective20:48
ignasaelkner: you will have to keep in mind the fact that if you are trying to list all the objects that a person is a "member" of20:48
ignasyou will get both - groups and sections20:48
aelkneri just need to filter by object type20:49
ignasand i can't recall how it should be dealt with in membership views20:49
ignasmaybe, can't recall now20:49
aelkneri can subclass the view20:49
ignasjust warning you20:49
aelknerthat's fine20:49
ignasabout a possible bug that you should test for20:49
aelknerso i should create a menu link at the student view, right?20:50
aelkneri figure that would make sense20:50
aelkneri prefer one work20:50
aelkneras we are running out of space20:50
aelknerbut we need the menu item20:50
ignasyeah, we have "groups" so "sections" makes sense20:51
Lumiereaelkner: how do they figure out how each student goes into classes21:05
Lumiereto go backward21:05
aelknereverything works with the schooltool.relationship package21:05
aelknerrelationships are kept on both the objects that relate to each other21:06
aelknerit's a handy package21:06
aelknerit uses annotations21:06
Lumiereaelkner: not quite what I meant21:23
Lumiereaelkner: how does SLA place a student into sections (with 300 students)21:24
Lumiereall 300 need to be put in21:24
aelknerthat's what we're working on21:24
Lumiereaelkner: how do you get all of em in at once21:25
aelkneryou don't21:25
aelknerbut i will create a new view that let's you put a student in all of his sections in one place21:25
aelknerexistingt view for adding students to one section is already there21:25
aelkneralso, there's an import21:26
aelknerat least there is for SLA21:26
aelkneri wrote it21:26
aelknerand there's one for schooltool, but it wasn't sufficient for SLA's needs21:26
aelknerbecause they have ore than one teacher per section21:28
Lumierewell, how do you resolve conflicts on 300 schedules21:29
Lumiereor does it run like college21:29
Lumierewhere first come first serve on next year's classes21:29
aelknerthat's the whole issue that we have before us21:30
aelknerwe need to get schooltool's use of time in order21:30
aelknerand scheduling conflicts is part of that21:30
Lumiereaelkner: at some point you should be able to say "student x needs courses 1,5,20,400"21:33
Lumierefor all students21:33
Lumiereand then say "create schedule21:33
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aelknerback after a shower21:42
Lumiereaelkner: jeff21:42
Lumieredid SOME work on that problem21:42
LumiereI think21:42
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aelknerLumiere: student x needs courses 1,5, etc will be handled by the new view i'm going to create21:43
Lumiereaelkner: I am saying doesn't need section21:47
LumiereI am saying you tell the system what courses and it figures all the sectons for all the students at the same time21:47
Lumiere(which is how HS do scheduling usually)21:52
th1aLumiere: There are some open source timetable generation packages.21:53
th1aEventually we'll interface with them.21:53
Lumiereth1a: like where we can ship them our data21:55
Lumiereand they ship back schedules?21:55
LumiereI guess that works21:56
th1aThe software (FET and Tablix) is better at figuring out what classes meet in which room, when.21:56
th1aBut FET at least can be coerced into putting students in sections, I believe.21:56
Lumieresounds like a decent requirement to add to the schooltool package21:56
th1aAlso, FET is still under pretty active development (probably Tablix, too) so we can probably get some features added if necessary.21:57
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Lumiereth1a: I should look at em I guess21:57
th1aNo rush.21:58
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