IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2008-02-04

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wbradyaelkner: hey, are pretty busy right now?16:28
aelknerabout to have a meeting16:29
aelknerwhere are you, jeff's classroom?16:29
wbradyyea 2nd period16:29
wbradyi was just wondering, if I had a question about why CanDo does or has something who would it be best to ask?16:29
aelkneryou could ask me16:30
wbradyok cool16:30
aelknerhav any question at the mement?16:30
wbradyi put together a list of some questions but it might be better to go over them at a different time when you have a little more time16:31
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aelknerwhy don't you email me the list, and we could discuss it later16:32
th1atest123_: Hi Ian.16:33
ignashi everyone16:33
wbradyaelkner: ok its some very unofficial notes but I'll send it to you16:34
aelknerthat fine16:34
th1aSince test123_ is here, we should probably focus first on getting Ian's project over the finish line.16:34
test123_sounds good to me16:34
th1aThere's some discussion needed with ignas on the final direction.16:34
test123_Do you want to lead on this Tom?16:34
th1aIf we get through with that there are some bugs to discuss with ignas.16:35
wbradyaelkner: actually allen I don't have your email address16:35
th1aWell, I just read test123_'s email.16:35
th1aSo we can go through that.16:35
th1aHm... I guess I should forward it to ignas & aelkner.16:36
th1aOK.  Sent.16:36
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aelknergot it16:37
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th1aStaring at the end... yes, we have switched to a dependency on lxml.16:37
th1aInstead of the libxml2 python bindings.16:37
ignasoh, yeah, I have forgot to update tizard buildout16:37
test123_ok does that mean that the cando doct needs to be updated?16:37
ignasto not build libxml2 anymore16:37
th1aActually, everything needs to be updated, I guess.16:38
ignascando is using a bit different installation procedures than the ones that schooltool is using I think16:39
th1aI'm a little unclear on exactly what the effects are on Mac OS X in terms of the underlying libxml dependency.16:39
* ignas does not have any macs around16:39
ignasbut I could help someone with enough time16:39
ignasto make schooltool run on their machine16:40
Lumierethe cando docs are wildly out of date to current trunk16:40
th1alxml still uses the libxml C library, and I'm not sure how daintily it has to match versions.16:40
th1aThat's been a real headache in the past with the regular libxml2 bindings.16:40
test123_OK,, that's helpful Tom.. I am just keen not to bundle C libraries we don't need16:40
th1aWell, Mac OS X should ship with libxml2.16:41
test123_and establish a least effort way of keeping the mac and ubuntu builds in sync16:41
test123_which I think may best be achieved by agreeing a ''contract'' with ignas in the form of16:41
test123_a ''.deb'' package dependency..16:42
ignaswell - with us migrating from libxml2 we don't need to build libxml2 anymore16:42
ignasso i'll just update tizard16:42
ignasto take advantage of these changes16:42
test123_while OSX ships with 2.5 and we are using 2.4 it may be best not to use their library?16:43
ignasand the rest of the dependencies are eggs16:43
th1aWell, one thing I'd say is that after the initial release you need for your immediate use, you should only update when we do a release every six months.16:43
test123_do we plan to advance to 2.5?16:43
th1alibxml 2.5?16:43
test123_python 2.516:43
th1aOh.  That's really a Zope question.16:44
th1aI presume eventually, but it doesn't seem to be a priority.16:44
th1aIt is not coming in the near future.16:45
th1aOK Leopard ships with libxml 2.6.1616:47
test123_So we need a policy to deal with the fact that we have a non-standard OSX python.  We are copying it into the self-contained schooltool-tizard folder and at present as in ubuntu we  symlink the /usr/local (which we need to buildout ) at the risk of interfering with other stuff that is there? or do we16:48
test123_copy all the assets we need into the self contained OSX folder?16:48
th1aFrom the lxml instructions: On MacOS-X 10.4, you can try to use the installed system libraries when you build lxml yourself. However, the library versions on this system are older than the required versions, so you may encounter certain differences in behaviour or even crashes. A number of users reported success with updated libraries (e.g. using fink), but needed to set the environment variable DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH to the directory where fink keeps the libra16:49
ignasth1a: hmm, we could try depending on an older lxml if it's available on OSX16:49
th1aThe Mac 10.5 libraries are newer, I'd say we should just try it with themand see what happens.16:49
ignasth1a: but I can't create a proper workaround witohut a mac :(16:50
th1aYes, that's probably true, ignas, but I bet it just works.16:50
ignasand at the moment - libxml2 will break the build16:50
test123_what about icu?16:50
ignasit's not compatible with lxml egg16:50
ignastest123_: what specific error message are you getting with icu?16:51
ignasbecause you shouldn't need any symlinks to build it i'd assume16:52
test123_Its not an problem to install in usr/local but I am not aware if it is bundled with the system?16:52
th1atest123_: It does not appear to be.16:53
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ignas:( ICU support seems to be a significant problem on all the systems16:53
* ignas would have had windows build working if not for ICU16:53
ignasand both python libraries for ICU need C compiler and libraries available16:54
test123_my gut instinct is to create a self-contained archive with all the assets we agree we need as binaries on the Mac side16:54
th1atest123_: Yes.16:54
th1aDisc space is cheap.16:55
test123_and to work with an informal ``deb'' system on ubuntu16:55
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test123_This also has the advantage of forcing us to be transparent on the dependencies16:55
test123_which if I understand you correctly will only change at most every six months16:56
th1aOnce you aren't tracking our trunk, yes, it will be a twice a year update.16:57
test123_The downside is that a bit more testing will be needed to relocate assets in the OSX 10.5.1 system we16:57
test123_have hacked together16:57
test123_I would appreciate sign-off from Ignas once we have that done16:57
th1aI think we have to figure out what we'd mean by "sign-off."16:58
ignasas for the package thingie17:00
ignasi'll need some testers after the meeting17:00
th1aI can certainly try out the installer on my Mac.17:00
ignasi'll need ubuntu testers too17:01
ignasi am trying to package a schooltool2007 egg release17:01
ignasthat would be a huge tarball17:01
ignaswith everything needed (except for all the libicu, libxml, gcc stuff)17:01
test123_The ''.deb package'' dependencies -- what they are and where they are located -- plus any environment variables, symlinks or path settings that need to be hardwired should be documented by us and agreed by Ignas as necessary and sufficient. This gets round the problem that our reverse engineering may throw up assets that have been deprecated (eg the libmxl2 python bindings) and that we may be passing the functional tests17:02
test123_== def sign off17:03
th1aDoes that make sense to you ignas?17:03
ignasI can try, but without an actual system to poke around it is a bit difficult ... most of the dependencies are listed in build-deps of the schooltool debian package, so as soon as we'd come up with schooltool2008 debian package17:04
ignaswe'd have the full list of both - build and install dependencies17:04
th1aIt sounds like that's what test123_ needs.17:04
test123_Not sure if we need the build dependencies. I am not proposing that we do any compilation on the Mac (except for icu).17:05
ignaswell - icu and lxml both need to compile some things17:06
ignasZODB needs to do some compiling too17:06
ignasunless you can precompile everything17:06
ignasbecause it's a Mac and it just works17:06
th1aI would try to precompile everything.17:06
test123_sorry ... my intention is to pre-compile -- including ICU.17:06
ignasthat makes sense17:07
test123_My assumption is that we get hardware independence (PPC and Intel) from the universal binaries17:07
th1aOh yeah... I think you're on your own with that one.17:08
th1aHopefully it will just work ;-)17:08
test123_thanks.. I think I have what we need. I will post progress at ../germanbight.17:09
Lumierehi th1a17:09
th1ahi Lumiere.17:10
th1aWhat's up?17:10
Lumierefor those of you who read the topic... there isn't a CanDo dev meeting tonight... but starting next week Monday evenings will be CanDo dev meetings17:10
th1aIf there is nothing else from test123_...17:11
th1acan we look at
th1aI like ignas's suggestion.17:12
th1aThat one overlays calendars by finding them and clicking an "Add this calendar" button.17:13
Lumiereso it only checks for conflicts with calendars you have selected?17:13
ignasnothing related to conflicts17:13
th1aIt is just to select which calendars you can overlay visually on yours.17:13
ignasthese are related to the ability to see the events of other person in your calendar17:14
Lumierethen yes ignas's suggestion seems good17:14
th1aThen we could just make it easy to remove obsolete ones with a click.17:14
th1aWhich solves the "too many obsolete section calendars in my legend" bug.17:15
th1aWell, not perfectly, but good enough.17:15
Lumiereanything outside of term shouldn't display anyways17:15
th1aWell, ideally, if you went back to that date you'd still see the events.17:15
ignaswe'd just move the checkboxes to the "more" view17:16
th1aIt is really more of a problem with cluttering up the list of overlaid calendars.17:16
ignasthe "enabled" "disabled" "tt"17:16
th1aI was thinking get rid of the "More" view.17:16
ignasso the "more view" would allow you to "remove" "hide" "set color maybe"17:16
ignaswe still need a way to "manage" overlays, and I always wanted to have "color picking" ;)17:17
th1aWe need color picking.17:17
th1aYou may be right, ignas.17:17
Lumiereallowing color setting is nice... but I think that getting a good set of colors is a first step17:18
ignaswe have a good set of colors ;)17:18
th1aI'll send an email to the main list.17:18
th1aWe have good colors.17:18
th1aI don't know if we have enough.17:18
th1aHow many do we have?17:18
ignasaround 8-10 i think17:18
th1aAny other thoughts about this.17:20
th1aI think I can write up a proposal at this point.17:21
ignasnot really, i'd rather try out what we are thinking about first17:21
ignasand then see how we can improve on it17:21
ignasyou can start downloading
ignasand if python2.4 + bin/make-schooltool-instance instance + bin/start-schooltool-instance instance/ works17:23
ignasi'll update installation instructions for users17:23
ignasand maybe even package such a thing for trunk schooltool17:24
th1aTrying it...17:25
th1ajinty was working on Zope debs in Launchpad last weekend.17:27
th1aI don't know how it came out yet... the fix we needed should have been committed.17:27
th1aaelkner: What are your plans for the week?17:29
aelknerlast week, franky and i worked a little on drupal cas17:30
aelknerwe have it logging into cas, but logging out is more problematic17:30
aelknerbecause drupal uses something called "drupal views"17:31
aelknerand currently there is no view for logout17:31
aelknerso hitting the logout button does nothing17:31
th1aYou can't logout?17:31
aelknerone wonders how they ever logged out17:31
th1aThis is the problem with interoperability.17:32
aelknereven without cas in the equation17:32
th1aYou have to interoperate with such screwed up stuff.17:32
aelknerthat's life17:32
aelknerone just has to deal with the screwed up thing which we are17:32
aelkneranyway, we only spent a couple of half-days on it17:32
aelknerso progress has slowed some17:33
aelkneri created a Demographics obvject as per ignas' suggestion17:33
aelknerthat lives in its own container off of the applicationh root17:33
aelknerwith __name__ the same as corresponding BasicPerson17:34
aelknerthen i created an edit view that incorporates the Demographics with the BasicPerson fields17:34
th1aThat sounds good.17:34
aelknerthen I created my own import class17:34
aelknerto import the students from the csv output of sla's student database17:35
aelknerthe edit view and the import are working save for two things17:35
aelkner1) i need to work out how to deal with sla's need for two advisors17:35
aelkner2) i need functional tests17:36
aelknersometime in the next two days, i should have this all done17:36
Lumiereare the advisors under the same title?17:36
Lumiereare they both "faculty advisor"17:36
aelkneroh, in the csv you mean17:37
Lumierejust in general17:37
aelknerthey just have an advisor field that has up to two advisors17:37
aelknerthey just use last names with a '/' between them if there are two17:37
aelknerafter i'm done with that, i'll move on to the narrative report cards17:38
th1aOK.  Don't get hung up on CAS at this point.17:38
aelknernot getting hung up, but an working slowly to move it along17:39
aelkneritnot being a priority works well with franky not being available a lot17:39
aelkneri'd like to talk advisors with ignas following the dropping of the gravel17:40
th1aI think that's it for this meeting.17:40
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:40
th1aignas: Why do I need libxml2 for this buildout?17:41
th1aOh... it is for ST2007?17:41
ignasaelkner: hmm, advisor relationship has no limitations for the ammount of possible advisors17:45
ignasso i'd look at it's implementation in BasicPerson17:45
ignasmaybe hide the "advisor" attribute in the UI17:45
ignasand add IStudent(person).advisors to manage them17:45
ignaslike we have ILearner(person).sections17:46
ignasor IAdvisee()17:46
ignasyou will have to do the limmiting to 2 yourself though17:46
ignasso you might have advisor1 and advisor2 attributes17:46
ignasand a read only attribute advisors that returns a list of all the advisors that are not None17:47
aelknerright now there are two things keeping a student from having two advisors17:47
aelknerone is in BasicPerson, the other the IStudent(person) adapter17:48
aelknerfor the first case, not prob17:48
aelknerI could duplicate the property in my Demographics object17:48
aelknerto assign a second advisor to the person17:49
aelknerthe problem with IStudent(person) is that it limits the number of advisors to one17:49
aelknerand i don't know how much code depends on that being the case17:50
ignasnone actually17:50
ignasadvisor is more of an inverse relationship17:50
ignasstudent can see who is his advisor and that's it17:50
ignaswhile advisor can access persons information17:51
ignasor his grades17:51
aelknerBasicPerson has an advisor property that accesses the IStudent interface of the object17:53
aelknerand gets its advisor (singular)17:53
aelknerso there is code the depends on the fact that IStudent has only one advisor17:53
ignasyes, but you can "not use" the advisor property17:54
ignasyou should look for all the places that use that property17:54
ignasand see whether they matter17:54
ignasand just add 2 advisors to the IDemographics17:55
ignasi think IStudent interface would just return the first advisor17:55
aelknerit asserts that there is only one17:55
aelknerso having a second will cause a crash17:55
ignasthen you'll have to make sure no one uses advisor property17:56
ignason the IBasicPerson17:56
ignasmaybe even rewrite it so17:56
ignasthat IBasicPerson would not have advisor in it17:56
ignasrewrite BasicPerson Add and Edit Views17:56
ignasto pull that property from IStudent interface17:57
ignas(original views)17:57
aelkneryou're talking changing BasicPerson, right?17:57
ignasrefactoring, yes17:57
aelknerand its views17:57
ignasa little bit17:57
ignasto make 1 "advisor" a property of the IStudent interface17:57
ignasrather than a property of IBasicPerson17:57
ignasproperty in a non-python sense17:58
aelkneradvisor is already a propety of IStudent17:58
ignasproperty in a non-python sense17:58
aelknerhow so?17:58
ignasto make IStudent interface the part that only allows 1 advisor17:58
ignasinstead of having it ingrained in the BasicPerson code17:59
aelknerbut if IStudent allows only one advisor, it won't allow me to have two17:59
ignasyou will have to make sure that IStudent is only used in the Original Add/Edit person view18:00
ignasas you are overriding it - no one will be using IStudent in your system18:00
ignasbecause - well you can't make the system not use BasicPerson ;) but you can make your system not use IStudent18:01
ignasso IStudent will be a part  of the presentation rather than the data model18:01
aelknernot sure what you mean, but i want to point out a few things18:02
aelkneradvisor is in the schema for BasicPerson18:02
aelknerbut my edit view could omit it18:02
aelknerand I could add two advisors to the Demographics18:02
aelknerand that in turn could avoid using IStudent18:03
ignasthat is one way to do it, yes18:03
aelknerand access the relationships directly18:03
ignasit still leaves the attribute "advisor" on BasicPerson though18:03
ignasand that attribute is broken if there is more than 1 advisor18:04
ignasbut if you are feeling safe enough to do it that way18:04
ignasit is an option too18:04
aelkneris there anyone in the field depending on the presence of the advisor attribute?18:05
aelknerlyceum for instance?18:05
aelknerremember that the edit view does depend on it18:06
aelknerso if anyone at lyceum uses that edit view to change the advisor18:06
ignaslyceum only uses basicperson through it's add/edit views so18:06
aelknerthen I can't just remove it18:06
ignasso if you will update add/edit views18:06
ignasand use IStudent.advisor as one of the schema fields18:07
ignasall the tests should pass18:07
ignasand everything should work18:07
aelknerIStudent.advisor is a read-only property at the moment18:08
aelknerit's the advisor property in BasicPerson that handles adding, removing the advisor18:09
ignasyou can change all that ;)18:09
ignasas long as you'll make sure everything keeps working18:10
ignasyou can even add some functional tests in basicperson that check whether advisor still works properly18:10
aelknerso you're suggesting the following steps:18:11
aelkner1) remove advisor from BasicPerson interace and implementation18:11
aelkner2) change BasicPerson add and edit views to use IStudent.advisor18:12
aelkner3) make IStudent.advisor a write as well as read property18:12
aelkner4) add functional tests to make sure the views still work18:12
ignas4) -> 0)18:13
ignas4) make sure IStudent is not used anywhere else except for Add/Edit Person views18:13
aelknerIStudent is only used in BasicPerson18:14
aelknerfor the advisor property18:14
aelknerthis i already grepped18:15
aelknerand the tests of course18:15
aelknerso i think i know what i need to do now18:16
ignasthe whole meaning of this thing is to make "advisor" property/relationship external to the BasicPerson instead of it being internal18:18
ignasso people who will want only 1 advisor will always be able to adapt to IStudent without blocking others from having multiple advisors18:19
aelknerbut after i make the change to remove the advisor property from BasicPerson18:20
aelknerthe list of people whoo only want one advisor will be zero, right?18:20
aelknerfor the moment at least18:21
ignasnope, all the people who will not be overriding Add/Edit person views18:21
ignaswill still get 1 advisor18:21
ignasso it will be a *default* instead of a *limitation*18:22
aelkneroh, right, because my change to IStudent and its use in the add/edit views will make that the default behaviour18:22
aelknerok, sounds good18:22
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Evannnhey, is anyone active in here?19:53
Evannni had a quick question and was hoping someone in here might have the answer.19:53
Evannnit's regarding tinyzis, specifically.. is that okay?19:55
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Evannn(i was searching google for a solution and the logs of this channel came up, from when one of the developers had my same problem trying to get tinyzis working.. but i couldn't find a solution.)19:56
Evannnbasically, i'm having a problem with zope i think.. i'm getting ImportError: No Module named transaction19:59
Evannnwhen i run: python test.py20:00
th1aHi Evannn.20:00
th1aDid you install the zodb?20:01
Evannnhey th1a... i'm pretty sure i installed the zodb. i was following the directions on
Evannnis there a way to test if zodb was successfully installed?20:04
th1aWell, if you can't import transaction something's wrong.20:05
th1aAnd it rings a bell, but I'm having trouble remembering what causes this.20:05
th1aDo you have more than one Python installed?20:05
Evannnthere should only be one installed.. is there any way to check for that? it had python installed when i got it.20:07
Evannnby got it, i mean.. got access to the box. it's a vps we're using as a test ZIS.. it's redhat with plesk stuff.20:08
th1aI can find several examples of me having this conversation over the past two years, but I can never remember the answer.20:09
Evannnhaha yeah, that's what i noticed when looking through the logs... i was thinking it'd be a good idea to come here and get a solution so anyone with this problem in the future will be able to find it quickly via google when these logs come up.20:10
th1aCan you just start an interactive session in Python and see what happens if you do "import transaction"20:11
Evannnsame exact error20:12
Evannnmost recent call is: File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?20:12
Evannnwell, that wasn't a question actually.. the question mark was part of the response.20:16
th1aI know ;-)20:16
Evannnhaha alright.20:16
th1aotoh, I'm drawing a complete freaking blank on this.20:16
th1acan you import zodb?20:17
Evannn"import zodb" at the python prompt?20:17
Evannnno module named zodb20:17
Evannnmust not have installed right.20:18
Evannnis zodb in yum?20:18
th1aProbably not.  I'm not sure.20:19
th1aLooks like not.20:19
th1aPerhaps try the tarball here:
Evannni was just about to wget that.20:20
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Evannnim assuming i just run
th1ayes.. python install (as root)20:24
Evannnoops.. need gcc20:25
th1aWhat happened when you did easy_install the first time?20:26
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Evannnsrc/BTrees/MergeTemplate.c:88: error: expected â=â, â,â, â;â, âasmâ or â__attribute__â before â*â token20:26
Evannnlots of errors like that20:26
Evannnsame thing actually, with the ZODB3 setup.py20:27
Evannnat the end it gives me: error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 120:27
th1aOh... you got errors for easy_install?20:27
Evannnbut i have gcc installed.20:27
th1aPerhaps you need python-devel.20:27
Evannni totally read that in the docs too... i must have just assumed i had it. stupid me.20:28
* th1a won't mention how many times he's done this.20:29
Evannnlooks like i need lxml now.20:30
th1aProbably the same issue.20:31
Evannnyeah... any particular version that plays nice with tinyzis? there seems to be quite a few..
th1aIt shouldn't matter.20:33
Evannnsrc/lxml/etree_defs.h:44:31: error: libxml/xmlversion.h: No such file or directory20:37
Evannni get that now followed by 1000+ errors when running lxml's setup.py20:37
Evannn(i have libxml2 installed.. i double checked.)20:37
Evannnseems to be a path issue..20:38
mgedminno, you need libxml-dev20:39
Evannnhmm i did yum install libxml2-devel ... seemed to install find but i'm still getting the same errors.20:41
Evannn(with "error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1" at the very end)20:41
Evannni have... /usr/include/libxml2/libxml/xmlversion.h20:45
LumiereI would check yum for python-lxml20:46
Lumierethe more you can pull from repository the better imo20:46
Evannni agree.. unfortunately it doesn't have lxml :(20:47
Evannnperhaps this will help20:52
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Evannnalright.. i got python-lxml installed... now the tinyzis gets a lot further, but still throws back some errors... "registered new agen RamseySIS..."21:02
th1aThose aren't errors.21:02
Evannnthe first error i get is error: (98, 'Address already in use')21:02
th1aMost of them are just logging to the console.21:03
th1aSo you know something's happening.21:03
th1aThat can be turned off in the configuration.21:03
Evannnahh, alright.21:03
Evannnso is it safe to run the tinyzis now?21:03
Evannnor do i even need to run that? can i just run the right out of the directory?21:05
th1aYou can just run it from there.21:06
Evannni still get socket.error: (98, 'Address already in use')21:07
Evannndoes that mean the port is in use or something?21:07
Lumierewhich may mean that it was already started21:07
Evannnoohhh.. duh. stupid plesk.21:08
Evannnnaw, it's plesk.21:08
LumiereI hate all those CPs21:08
LumiereI run webmin occasionally for setting up samba21:08
th1aYou should be able to change that in a config file.21:08
Evannnha, same here.21:08
Lumiere(it does a far better job then I can)21:08
Evannni just installed webmin on my new dedicated server i got last night.21:08
Lumierebut even then I have it set not to start21:08
LumiereI start it manually then connect to it... do what I need then cut it off again21:09
Evannnunfortunately this vps i'm on now belongs to work and it has sites all set up with plesk so i can't really touch it.21:09
Evannnyou only run samba when you need it?21:09
Evannnor webmin21:09
Lumiereand I only really use webmin to configure samba21:11
Evannnah, yeah okay... all this tinyzis stuff is slowing my brain down.21:11
Evannnsweet! tinyzis is up and running! thank you so much everyone.21:12
Evannni really appriciate the help.21:12
th1aNo problem.21:17
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