IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2007-12-03

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* th1a_ shuffles some papers around.16:29
th1a_hi jfroche, ignas_, aelkner, Lumiere.16:30
th1a_This should be a fairly quick meeting.16:30
th1a_I sent a 2007 report to Mark on Friday and I'm sending the 2008 budget today.16:31
th1a_I was still trying to figure out this SA thing, but based on the fact that my communication with them has been so slow, I'm going to have to say it isn't going to happen this year.16:31
aelknerSA thing?16:32
th1a_I was talking to a school in South Africa.16:32
th1a_Well, more talking to the developer.16:32
th1a_I'll need invoices from ignas_, aelkner & jfroche for November.16:33
ignas_i'll ask Aiste to send them16:34
th1a_ignas_: Did you get my email regarding next year's work w/you?16:34
ignas_but I and Aiste had no time to talk about it yet16:34
th1a_Well... again, the budget is going in today, so I hope it is ok.16:35
th1a_Beyond that, I'm going to force myself to work on
th1a_Our LaunchPad packaging bug has been identified.16:36
th1a_I don't think it has been fixed though.16:36
th1a_What have you been up to?16:37
ignas_well - i have worked on lyceum gradebook for most of the time16:37
ignas_i did some more ajax to make the gradebook easier to use16:38
ignas_some of the CS teachers have actually started using it16:38
th1a_Are you visiting the school tomorrow?16:38
th1a_Good.  Keep that up.16:38
ignas_i have some tasks that would be good for interns to do16:39
ignas_the problem is that i need them done as soon as possible ...16:39
ignas_and that needs communication16:39
th1a_Yes... too many links in the chain here.16:40
ignas_i guess most of the interns are only done with school after i am gone home16:40
th1a_Can you put them on LP?16:40
th1a_Or I guess just an email?16:40
ignas_explaining them using email with a delay of 1 day between emails would take as long as doing the tasks ...16:41
th1a_I understand.16:41
ignas_and launchpad is a bit like a black hole - you put something in there, and have no idea if anyone is even looking at the tasks16:42
ignas_if i would be sure some of the interns that want to work on schooltool would be online16:42
ignas_i can connect to irc from home and talk to them16:42
ignas_the important thing is coming up with some specific time for the meeting16:43
ignas_that they can commit to16:43
th1a_Well, jelkner and I will have to try to come up with something that will work.16:43
ignas_i will shift my schedule accordingly16:43
th1a_Generally, though, it is hard to imagine that remote interns would be able to offer reliable turnaround.16:44
ignas_i know, just that i don't have any other resources ...16:44
th1a_Sure.  It would be nice if we could make it work.16:45
ignas_and most of the changes lyceum are asking are "makes sense, current situation is bad, would take 1-2 days" kind of changes16:46
th1a_That's what I'd expect.16:46
ignas_which could keep me busy from doing anything else for quite a while16:47
th1a_Well, I guess the turnaround time is the question.16:48
th1a_Also, how endlessly this level of issue would be generated.16:48
* ignas_ suddenly feels like pushing for outsourcing ;)16:49
th1a_I could add some Indians to the budget.16:49
ignas_interns are filling in for indians at the moment ;)16:49
ignas_which is why the analogy16:49
ignas_well that's all from me16:50
th1a_Well, you are going to have to devote a big chunk of time soon to the whole "moving through time" set of issues.16:50
ignas_i know, i am thinking about solutions to that problem16:51
th1a_So there is that, plus small improvements to Lyceum, plus general maintenance of the codebase.16:51
th1a_Would it make sense to focus on Lyceum stuff until the end of the year, and then focus on the time issues.16:52
ignas_i guess, i will still be pushing the greater agenda in the background16:52
ignas_but at the moment - that's what i am doing, focusing on lyceum, while thinking of possible ways to implement the moving through time issues16:53
ignas_before they switch to the next term16:53
ignas_if possible16:53
th1a_Oh yeah.16:53
th1a_It would be good to get terms working before next term ;-)16:53
ignas_which is in the beginning of january16:53
th1a_That gives you a good excuse to focus on that now.16:54
th1a_It would also be helpful to aelkner.16:54
aelknerI think jelkner wants terms as soon as possible16:55
aelknerfor january as you say16:55
th1a_Well, everyone would like them before next term ;-)16:55
th1a_So putting off small refinements in the gradebook seems justified.16:55
aelkneri guess so16:55
ignas_aelkner: if you could come up with specific things jelkner needs it would be nice16:56
th1a_I would be very happy to have the time issues handled sooner rather than later.16:56
ignas_because i only know the lyceum requirement side of terms16:56
aelkneri'll be meeting with him in Virginia this week, so I can ask him16:57
ignas_i see16:57
th1a_I don't think it is different.16:57
th1a_Kid withdrawing but needing to retain the records is the main thing.16:57
ignas_i am not doing that yet16:57
ignas_what lyceum needs is - hiding old sections16:58
ignas_and removing old things from the timetable16:58
ignas_it's not the end of the schoolyear yet16:58
th1a_Well, focus on what they need.16:58
ignas_i would like to know what jelkner needs, so I could do at least some things in that direction16:59
th1a_I'll send jelkner an email.16:59
aelkneri'll put together an email with him after we have met to discuss his needs16:59
th1a_OK, thanks ignas_.17:00
aelknerwell, you know that i had that nasty issue with the inherited requirements casing an infinite loop17:00
ignas_nope, haven't heard about it17:01
aelkneri found the source of the problem by doing some tricky debugging17:01
aelknerok, i'll explain17:01
aelknerstephan's requirements package has this concept of inherited reuirements17:01
aelknerthey wrap requirements and have an attribute of original that refers to the wrapped req17:02
aelknerwell, for some reason, while unpickeling17:02
aelknerthe ZODB had instantiated an inherited requirement with an empty __dict__17:03
aelknerso it tried to get the __setstate__ method17:03
aelknerbut the gettattr method only calls the self.original to get attrs17:03
aelknerbut since the attribute dict was empty, that caused infinite recursion17:03
aelknera nasty problem to debug as putting the trace in __getattr__ wasn't helping17:04
aelknerjust typing self would lock pdb17:04
aelknerfinally, i figured out that __dict__ was empty, so i need to talk to stephan about that17:04
aelkneri haven't gotten a hold of him yet, but I will be looking for him17:05
aelknerthe good news was that welsh was able to restore the section17:05
aelknerby deleting the section and readding the students to it17:05
ignas_do you have a way to reproduce the problem?17:05
aelkneri have the bad Data.fs17:06
aelknerbut welsh could not find out what the teacher did to cause he problem17:06
ignas_how big is it?17:06
aelkneri'd have to look, why?17:06
ignas_and can you compress it and give it to me in some way17:06
ignas_i would like to look at the problem17:06
aelkneryeah, it exists on my machine, zipped17:07
aelkneri just need to give you an account and then you can scp it from there17:07
aelknerhow about after the meeting?17:07
ignas_by the way17:07
ignas_if you are interested in doing a small task17:08
ignas_the "sections" index view17:08
ignas_is quite important17:08
aelknerthe container view, right?17:08
aelkneris there a blueprint or bug report in LP?17:08
ignas_don't know really17:09
aelknerwhat do you mean then?17:09
aelknerwhat is quite important?17:09
ignas_the bug is quite short "if you go to your section (a section you are teaching thus have a permission to view), and click on sections breadcrumb -  you get log in prompt"17:10
ignas_we have talked about the section index view in the last meeting i think17:10
aelknerthat sounds like a bug that jelkner submitted17:10
ignas_and have decided that it should show all the sections you have view access  for17:10
aelkneroh that17:10
th1a_That's what I've been saying all along.17:10
aelkneryes, i could do that17:10
aelknerif the user is a teacher17:11
ignas_yes, my point is - that lyceum needs it too, so if you want to do it, i'd be very happy ;)17:11
aelkneri'll do it17:11
aelknerso another thing i worked on was part 1 of changing journals to messages17:11
th1a_That's an annoying bug.17:12
ignas_look at CoursesViewlet for the correct approach to listing sections17:12
th1a_Part 1...17:12
aelkneryes, you see paul didn't understand what jelkner needed for journaling quite17:12
aelknerso he developed this complicated journal with messaging17:12
aelknerbut our meeting down in Virginia last month yileded17:13
aelknerthat we need to distinguish between a journal and messages17:13
th1a_Yes, I know.17:13
th1a_I just don't like being sucked into this.17:13
aelkneranyway, part 1 was to make journals as they are now look like messages in the UI17:14
aelknerso the users in Virginia will be talking about messages even if the objects are journal and journal entry objects for now17:14
aelknerlater we will convert objects to be message objects (part 2)17:15
aelknerthen develop journal objects as they really should be (part 3)17:15
aelknerbut part 1 was the priority for developing the paradign for the users17:15
th1a_And part 1 is all you need for now?17:15
aelknerwelsh didn't want them confused as they were learning the system17:16
th1a_OK.  Good.17:16
th1a_So what else do you have planned, aelkner?17:16
aelkneranyway, besides that I haven't been able to do more than just think about what jelkner wants for final grades17:17
aelknerhe has a good blueprint17:17
aelknerand i just need to create the right view for letting the teacher see the final grade and adjust the calculation17:17
aelkneraccording to special considerations for the given student17:18
aelknerthat could be predicted in a calculation17:18
aelknerso the idea will be to offer an adjustment value that the teacher could enter17:18
aelknerthat would adjust the final grade calculation any way the teacher sees fit for the student17:18
aelknera  + or - some value is all that's needed i figure17:19
th1a_Like +20% for football players?17:19
aelkneractually, his idea was maybe a B in quarter 1 would weigh less then an A in quarter 217:20
aelknerprogress being rewarded and all17:20
th1a_Makes sense.17:20
aelknerso the teacher could mack the adjustment without there being some difficult to make rule17:20
aelknerbut you get the idea17:21
ignas_aelkner: oh, by the way '%2.0f%%' % (value + 0.0000000001) could be replaced with "%2.0f%%" % round(value) i think17:21
aelknerso i'll work on that this week too17:21
aelkneryou saw my float problem i see17:21
aelknerit was weird how 4.5 was not rounding to 517:22
aelkneris round a reserved word in python?17:22
ignas_i don't think so17:22
aelknerso what do you mean by round?17:23
ignas_well - "%2.0f%%" does some kinf of floor i think17:23
ignas_well - round is a function17:23
ignas_in python17:23
ignas_but i don't think it's a reserved word17:23
ignas_so you can do "round = 5" if you want17:23
aelknerok, it's a already defined method like int(value), right?17:24
ignas_while with reserved words afaik "if = 5" would signal an error17:24
aelknerthat's what i meant17:24
aelknerok, i'll try that17:24
ignas_and add a unit test for that method17:24
ignas_just to be sure17:24
aelknerso besides the cando meetings this week, i'm not going to give cando much time17:25
aelkneras i've already given them more than the 33% that you agreed17:25
aelknerdue mostly to the urgency of their problems17:26
aelknerand i will remain available if they have another emergency like last week17:26
th1a_Well, technically the requirements bug is a SchoolTool bug too.17:26
aelknerotherwise, we'll see what the virginia folks due about budget17:26
aelknerthat's true17:26
th1a_So feel free to fix it once you figure it out.17:27
aelknersure will17:27
th1a_OK, time's just about up.17:27
th1a_Any last words?17:27
aelkneri didn't do it?  it was the butler?17:27
aelknermay a have a cigarette?17:27
* th1a_ drops the bag of gravel.17:27
th1a_Have a great week.  Send me invoices.17:28
aelknerok, you too17:28
th1a_The system by which the manager is only paid when the contractors are is good for contractors.17:28
aelknersounds good to me17:29
th1a_I don't think clients usually agitate for invoices.17:29
aelknerthat's what makes you special17:29
aelknerwell at least that's part of it17:29
th1a_I think it is Mark's money that makes me special in this case.17:30
aelknerignas, i'll create that account for you and email you instructions17:30
ignas_ok, thanks17:31
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ignas_kkubasik: hi17:37
kkubasikignas_, morning :)17:37
ignas_for you - maybe ;)17:38
kkubasikhaha, where in the world is ignas_ ?17:38
ignas_Vilnius, Lithuania (17:38 here)17:38
kkubasikahhhh, yeah, not so much morning  ;)17:38
ignas_so you had some problems finding the gradebook17:40
ignas_have you succeeded in solving them?17:40
kkubasiki got it activated in trunk17:40
kkubasikim a long-time pythoner first time zoper17:41
ignas_i see17:41
kkubasikso the config stuff is a little new17:41
ignas_if you have any questions - just ask17:42
kkubasikin a few days im gonna sit down and do a few hours on learning how its all plugged together17:42
ignas_good to hear17:42
kkubasikso ill try to time that when you guys are up and ill be onn here asking silly questions ;)17:42
kkubasikprobably lots about the pt files, they are way new, component development is a very python-esq development model17:43
kkubasikso thats easy enough :)17:43
th1a_kkubasik: Yes, your timing was bad popping in on the weekend.17:43
kkubasikth1a, yeah, its just learning the timezones, its always tricky17:44
kkubasikgotta love open souce :)17:44
* ignas_ is online Mon-Fri 12:00-20:00 EET17:46
ignas_+-1 hour17:46
ignas_aelkner: got the email, copying 3 minutes left17:49
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ignas_aelkner: is it cando or jelkner-2007?17:50
aelknerhave you used it before?17:51
ignas_nope, are there any instructions on how to set up cando now?17:51
aelkneri don't know if they are up to date17:51
ignas_i know that virtual python + buildout does not really work17:51
ignas_with cando17:51
aelknercando is not using it yet17:51
aelknerit uses it's own make file that get schooltool as an egg17:52
aelknerhold on and i'll give you the svn info17:52
aelknerRepository Root:
aelkneronce you have gotten it started, you'll need to sign on using http://localhost:7207/++skin++NewCanDo/go.html17:54
aelknerthat will give you a login prompt where you can enter tom_oday's login info17:55
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ignas_did that18:05
ignas_no crash :/18:06
ignas_looking at http://localhost:7207/++skin++NewCanDo/sections/9/@@go.html now18:07
aelkneryou see the evaluations tab, right?18:07
aelknerdid you click on that?18:07
ignas_got the traceback18:07
aelknerfun one, eh?18:08
ignas_i like these ;)18:10
aelkneri used a bit of code that used inspect's stack method, and i counted occurances of that routine until it got to 1018:12
ignas_hmm, the key is 'None'18:13
ignas_is that normal?18:13
aelknerwhat does __dict__ look like?18:13
aelkneroh, do you mean the name pararmeter to __getattr__?18:14
ignas_no, not __getattr__18:14
aelknerisn't that where you crash?18:14
ignas___getitem__ of a requirement18:14
aelkneri see your point i think18:15
aelknerthe requirement is being asked for an item with key None18:16
ignas_keys look cool18:16
ignas_ [u'None', u'None-2', u'None-3', u'None-4', u'None-5', u'None-6', u'None-7', u'None-8', u'None-9', u'None-10', u'None-11', u'None-12', u'None-13', u'None-14', u'None-15', u'None-16', u'None-17', u'None-18', u'None-19']18:16
ignas_not there yet18:17
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ignas_aelkner: are you there ?19:46
ignas_aelkner: ping20:30
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ignas_th1a_: thanks20:58
ignas_aelkner: the code is way messed up, apparently the offending InheritedRequirement was created21:02
ignas_while looking at the treeCompetency view21:02
ignas_and performing a search21:02
ignas_which probably traverses the tree, and "write on reads" the competencies along the way21:02
ignas_which in some way creates an InheritedRequirement without the original attribute21:03
ignas_there is an override action21:06
ignas_so it was probably the cause of clicking override21:06
ignas_ouch, it seems sooooo broken21:11
ignas_for example - go to a section, go to a tree view21:12
ignas_expand some inherited competency21:12
ignas_and click on override in one of them21:12
ignas_at least i am getting an error in the line "req = self.original.__class__(self.original.title, self.original)" in schooltool/requirement/"21:13
ignas_so my wild guess would be that with unusual or just unlucky hierarchy of inherited competencies21:14
ignas_the __class__ can be something you don't want it to be ...21:14
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