IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2007-10-01

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* th1a shuffles some papers around.16:28
th1aHi ignas, jfroche, aelkner_, jinty, Lumiere.16:28
jfrochegood afternoon16:28
jfrocheor morning16:29
th1aSo Welsh has some things he wants to discuss later, so let's do updates.16:30
th1aI'll start.16:30
th1aI've been procrastinating about updating, because I think of this as a pre-release task, and I don't know when our release will be.16:31
th1aI need a deadline.16:31
th1aAnd we need a release date.16:31
th1aAnd I need to look at LaunchPad PPA's,16:32
th1awhich I figured I'd ignore until jinty told me they would be useful, which he did over the weekend.16:32
th1aAnyone else looked at this?16:32
th1aAlso, I'm having surgery on my gums tomorrow, which will slow me down a little, I suspect.16:33
LumiereI know jelkner and mattva01 have16:33
th1aAnd I'm going to a conference in Indiana next week.16:33
LumiereI am not an ubuntero, so I can't make one :)16:33
th1aOK.  That's me.  jfroche?16:33
jfrochei went back to the school for update16:34
jfrochei have the new datas16:34
jfrochei go back this week to show them16:34
jfrocheand still translating things in french16:34
th1aAnything else?16:36
jfrochenothing new except that16:36
th1aI'm thinking maybe I'll fly to Brussels on Nov. 1st, and we can meet on the 2nd?16:36
jfrocheit's ok for me16:36
jfrochei ll ask Nicolas16:36
jfrocheand send you a mail16:37
th1a(we're going to rush along here and this'll be the day Welsh can't get online)16:37
aelkner_Lumiere and I were going to ask about getting a frozen version of schoooltool16:38
ignasworking on ajax for the gradebook, translating stuff, working on schooltool i18n, and preparing some things for release16:38
th1aWait your turn aelkner_.16:38
ignaslike adding generation utilities to our stapp2007 and stapp200516:38
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Lumierehi dwelsh16:38
ignasdwelsh: hi16:38
dwelshgood morning (EST)16:38
th1aignas:  Generation utilities?16:39
ignasthough people in lyceum seems to be too busy to do anything which is disturbing :/16:39
ignasth1a: evolution script stuff16:39
ignasi still don't have neither student lists, not timetables16:39
ignasand i find it very difficult to get through to them16:39
ignasnow it seems that some guy is reworking their website, and should contact me about integration with schooltool soon16:40
ignasi hope it will happen soon ...16:40
th1aignas: Hrm... this is becoming the most exasperating part of the project.16:40
ignasi know :/ i kind of expected to have schooltool deployed by now ...16:41
th1aI do understand why it is difficult... it is part of why I set up the budget to give you a big bonus for that last step.16:42
th1aIt is a tough one.16:42
th1aOK. aelkner_, you're up.16:42
th1aGo Phillies!16:42
aelkner_ok, i'm going to be creating a jelkner2007 package16:43
aelkner_that will include overrides for things like making dashboard the default view16:43
aelkner_then i will be able to clean up the jelkner-gradebook branch16:43
aelkner_to have passing tests16:43
aelkner_as making dashboard the default view has broken tests in four places16:44
aelkner_then i have add some tests for the gradebook package16:44
aelkner_and one quick one for jelkner200716:44
aelkner_after that, I'll move on to adding functionality to cover the rest of jelkner's blueprints16:45
aelkner_Yesterday was an incrdible day in Phillies history16:45
th1aSounds good.  I'm going to pick a date for our meeting with Chris.16:45
aelkner_so you'll cone down and stay with him?16:46
th1aI'm going to try to do it in a day.16:46
th1aI used to fly to Chicago and back in one day all the time.16:46
th1aLumiere: Any news particular to you?16:46
aelkner_it looks like i'm virginia bound for mon october 8, so don't make it then16:47
th1aaelkner_: OK.16:47
Lumierenot from me16:48
th1aOK.  dwelsh:  You've got the floor.16:48
LumiereI've been pretty well out of the loop this last 2 weeks16:48
dwelshMon, Oct 8th will be confirmed early this week, or else it will be moved to a day not long after that16:48
dwelshthat is, Oct 8th is tentative, but earnestly hoped-for16:48
aelkner_kep th1a informed16:48
aelkner_as he needs to schedule aroung it16:48
aelkner_dwelsh, we wanted to discuss freezing schooltool for our purposes16:50
dwelshdoes it make sense to create a SchoolTool branch that supports our 07 package?16:51
dwelshso that future SchoolTool changes won't inadvertently cause CanDo problems16:51
ignasdwelsh: i'd wait for schooltool release16:52
aelkner_yeah, that's what we reaaly mean16:52
aelkner_when is that going to happen?16:52
ignasno idea, ask jinty16:53
th1aWe've got a jinty bottleneck.16:53
dwelshWill SchoolTool remain stable for CanDo until the time of the release?16:53
th1aWell, tagging a release isn't so much the problem, right?16:54
th1aWe just need to build the packages.16:54
ignasdwelsh: well, it kind of is stable16:54
jintyth1a: nope, it's really easy16:54
ignasdwelsh: i mean more than 2 weeks you had no buildbot breakages16:54
ignasbecause of schooltool16:54
dwelshI don't think so16:54
dwelshjust a minor issue requiring us to refresh our browsers16:54
th1aWell, now that we have jinty's attention...16:54
th1ajinty: When can we push something out prior to Gutsy's release (the 18th?)?16:55
th1aHow's your schedule look, jinty?16:55
jintyth1a: something, yes, it's quite easy now to create releases16:56
jintythe only real issue is that we cannot logically release a final release16:56
jintyuntil zope3.4 is finalized16:56
jintybut an alpha/beta version is easy16:56
th1aYes, an alpha.16:57
aelkner_that's all we need16:57
jintyth1a: just send me an e-mail when you need one16:57
* jinty _really_ hopes that no dependencies have changed since europython16:58
th1aLet's "officially" release on Friday.16:58
dwelshThis is great news.16:58
dwelshSounds like we should release on the tails of the SchoolTool release16:59
th1aIs that OK?16:59
dwelshWorks by my schedule16:59
dwelshIt would be nice having the package for the Virginia meeting16:59
dwelshOct. 8th at earliest16:59
dwelshThat way pioneering schools can load the app and poke around16:59
th1aWhat do we have to consider for translation related issues?17:00
dwelshMatt says he's close to having the CanDo package ready... maybe a couple of days17:00
th1aDo we have relatively recent ones from LaunchPad?  Can we upload the new templates after the release so what's on there will be relatively up to date?17:01
Lumiereand we can do a alphax.1 for the translation updates?17:02
ignasth1a: i will update templates just before the release17:03
ignasbut the state of i18n is still quite bad ...17:03
dwelshWelsh needs to go... anything else related to me?17:03
dwelshth1a:  will contact you shortly re: Open Minds travel17:03
th1adwelsh: Not that I know of.  OK.17:03
dwelshAm on for Thurs. preso17:04
th1aLet me know if you need a bed.17:04
dwelshwill do... might be nice, as I'll only be there a short time17:04
dwelshWed eve17:04
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th1aDo we need to update the README, etc?17:05
th1aI guess I should take a look at it.17:05
th1aAnything else that needs attention?17:07
ignasnow - what's are the plans for jelkner branch? is it going to be something like jacqmain?17:07
th1aWe can host the packages and tarballs on LP now, can't we?17:07
ignasjelkner becoming one of out "clients"17:07
th1aignas: Yes, I guess so.17:07
ignasbecause it seems that he will need some more things other than gradebook17:07
th1aYes, apparently so.17:07
ignasany things you want to get done before the release?17:10
ignasi am fixing some bugs that seem important to me17:10
ignasmaybe you have anything particular in mind?17:10
th1aI don't have any big bugs I'm keeping secret.17:11
th1aOK, so I'll have the website ready and make an announcement on Friday.17:12
ignasok, i'll hopefully fix unicode bugs in schooltool by then17:12
ignasand do some more i18n cleanups17:12
ignasas they are a "safe bet"17:12
ignasaelkner_: if you will want to implement preferred name functionality for jelkner17:13
th1aNow would be a good time.17:14
ignasaelkner_: tell me, i can vaguely describe how to do it17:14
ignaswithout touching schooltool17:14
ignasjust from your jelkner 2007 branch17:14
aelkner_i could do it after getting the jelkner2007 package set up17:14
ignasth1a: a question - do we need transient section membership?17:16
ignaslike section - group - person17:16
th1aNot sure what you mean?17:17
ignaswell - groups at the moment can be members of a section17:18
th1aOh... if a group is part of a section, how do you handle people entering and leaving the group during the term?17:18
ignasnot just that, most programmers who try to list members of a section17:18
ignasforget listing transient members17:18
th1aDefine "transient" in this case.17:19
ignassrichter gradebook actually crashes for such cases17:19
ignasperson in a group, group in a section17:19
ignaswhile person is not a member of a section directly17:19
aelkner_couldn't members be a property?17:20
aelkner_which would resolve those issues for the caller17:20
ignasit is, it lists all the groups and persons that belong to a section17:20
th1aYou know, allowing groups to be members of a section may be more trouble than it is worth.17:20
ignasth1a: i thought so, that's why i am asking you17:20
aelkner_if the members property drilled down to the members of the goups17:20
ignasaelkner_: if you would look at course person.Info viewlet it list members separately17:21
aelkner_then it would be tranparent wouldn't it17:21
th1aBasically, the disadvantage is that if you add someone to the group in the middle of the term, the administrator has to explicitly add them to all the right sections.17:21
Lumierebut define a time17:21
Lumierewhere a group should really be in a section17:21
ignasas in - you are a member of sections a, b, c17:21
th1aThat's the disadvantage of not having groups be section members.17:21
ignasand you are a member of section d through "some-group"17:22
th1aBut the disadvantage of having groups be section members is much programming magic, that will become increasingly complex.17:22
Lumiereit's a bad idea17:22
th1aBecause you can't have people appearing and disappearing from sections without being tracked.17:22
ignasth1a: it is actually doable using subscribers, if you need that very much17:22
th1aRight, it is possible.17:22
ignasbut current state is just asking for bugs ...17:22
th1aBut I think not worth it.17:22
th1aAlso, the current design is not bad for a calendar.17:23
aelkner_let's keep it simple17:23
th1aNot so good for a SIS.17:23
aelkner_if we can17:23
Lumierefrom a school oriented point of view sections shouldn't contain groups...17:23
th1aWell, essentially we're making it a little more complicated for the user but probably more reliable.17:23
ignasbecause only I still can remember how to properly list all the sections of a person and all the persons of a section ;)17:23
ignasLumiere: actually with schooltool missing some features, eastern europeans would prefer having groups in sections ...17:24
th1aLumiere: Also, for elementary schools here.17:24
Lumiereth1a: for elementary schools there are no sections17:24
th1aNo, there are sections.17:24
th1aThey just don't think of them as sections.17:24
LumiereI guess I am too far removed17:25
Lumiereto remember how the scheduling went17:25
Lumiereth1a: I guess you could think of it as a group that has 10 sections with the same teachers17:25
th1aAnyhow, so adding a group to a section should add all those individuals in the group at that time.17:25
th1aLumiere: Yes.17:25
th1aLumiere: Or one all day section of "school."17:26
Lumiereif it is an all day section17:26
Lumierewe don't need a group17:26
th1aYes... anyhow.17:26
th1aAre we agreed on how this should be changed?17:27
aelkner_how's that bag of gravel coming?17:27
th1aaelkner_: Getting heavy...17:27
ignasLumiere: the feature was in here to accomodate Lithuanian scenarios, but they are more complex for that approach anyway ;)17:27
ignasLumiere: most of sections actually have the whole "group" in them all the time, so it's kind of convenient17:27
aelkner_Lumiere: we don't need to use the feature just because it is there17:28
ignasLumiere: but those few that need 1/2 or 1/3 of the group while the other half is in another section17:28
ignasbreak it so much, it just doesn't work17:28
Lumiereignas: heh17:28
Lumiereaelkner_: I know17:28
Lumiereaelkner_: but I don't want features in there17:28
th1aignas: I think we're on the same page about how to change it?17:28
ignasaelkner_: but you have to write code as if someone was using it17:28
Lumierethat could produce evil bugs17:28
ignasth1a: yep17:28
aelkner_Lumiere: agreed17:29
th1aCool.  Any last words?17:29
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:30
th1aHave a great week, gentlemen.17:30
aelkner_thanks.  lookign forward to hearing about meeting with your friend17:30
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jelknersorry i'm late18:48
jelknerwho is chairing this meeting?18:48
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jelknerand where is dwelsh?18:49
ignasjelkner: don't know but he was here during schooltool meeting19:12
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aelknerignas: i have a question about a test that's failing20:16
aelknerFile "/home/aelkner/jelkner-gradebook/src/schooltool/securitypolicy/browser/ftests/policy_table.txt", line 155, in policy_table.txt20:16
aelknerFailed example:20:16
aelkner    column(alien, 'student1', '1')20:16
aelknerDifferences (ndiff with -expected +actual):20:16
aelkner      course:              view20:16
aelkner    - course activities:   view20:16
aelknerI didn't do anything to change that package20:16
aelknerDoes this look familiar to you?20:16
ignashmm, not really, might be that you have changed the "title" of some link20:17
aelknerI didn't20:18
ignasyou should look at the column function (well - the file that function is in)20:19
ignasand find the "function" (course_view or course_activities_view)20:19
ignaswell - the one that is outputing different things now20:19
aelknerthere are more20:19
ignasand call it before calling column()20:19
aelkneri just didn't want to croud the chat20:19
ignasthat should give you the idea of what has changed20:20
ignaslisppaste5, url20:20
lisppaste5To use the lisppaste bot, visit and enter your paste.20:20
ignasis always there20:20
lisppaste5aelkner pasted "security functional tests" at
ignasonly course activities have changed20:22
ignasothers are because of indentation20:22
ignasthey don't affect the result20:22
ignasbecause NORMALIZE_WHITESPACE is used20:22
aelknerso why are they showing up in the diff?20:23
aelknerso my question is why would these tests be failing if i didn't change anything related to them?20:26
aelknerdo i need to integrate some code to get them to pass?20:26
ignasaelkner, for the diff - it's like ... (ellipsis) even if it matches everything you still see it in the diff20:28
ignasaelkner, you have probably changed something related20:28
ignasmaybe made dashboard the front view20:28
ignasmaybe added some links or menu items20:28
aelkneri removed the code that made dashboard the front view20:28
ignasjust look at it20:28
ignasfind the function20:28
ignassee what it does to check if you can view activities20:29
ignascopy and paste it into the test20:29
ignasand see in which line it fails20:29
aelknerignas: the issue is that an unauthorized use doesn't have permission to see course activities20:52
aelknerthat would make sense, wouldn't it?20:52
aelkneror maybe not20:52
ignasdepends on the school20:54
ignasin lyceum - timetables are public20:54
aelkneractivities are not timetables20:54
ignasso hiding what you will learn on History course20:55
ignaswould make no sense20:55
ignasi am comparing the level of privacy20:55
ignasmost schools have very simmilar curriculums, don't they?20:55
aelkneri couldn't say20:56
aelknerbut i do know why i changed the permission on the activities view20:56
aelknerbecause there is a delete button on the view20:56
aelknerso anyone who can see activities could get rid of them20:56
aelknertat wouldn't be good20:57
ignaswon't you get an error20:57
ignasif you will click it?20:57
ignaspermissions for views and objects are different most of the time20:57
aelknermaybe, but it doesn't make sense to give someone a button that will result in giving them an error20:57
ignasso hide the button20:57
aelkneri could do that using the canAccess method, right?20:58
ignasi think so, maybe canWrite ...20:58
aelknerok, i'm sure i can work out that one20:59
Lumiereaelkner: expect a call from welsh21:20
Lumierein ~521:20
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