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| * th1a shuffles some papers around. | 16:28 | |
| th1a | Hi ignas, jfroche, aelkner_, jinty, Lumiere. | 16:28 |
|---|---|---|
| ignas | hi | 16:28 |
| jfroche | good afternoon | 16:28 |
| jfroche | or morning | 16:29 |
| th1a | So Welsh has some things he wants to discuss later, so let's do updates. | 16:30 |
| th1a | I'll start. | 16:30 |
| th1a | I've been procrastinating about updating schooltool.org, because I think of this as a pre-release task, and I don't know when our release will be. | 16:31 |
| th1a | I need a deadline. | 16:31 |
| th1a | And we need a release date. | 16:31 |
| th1a | And I need to look at LaunchPad PPA's, | 16:32 |
| th1a | which I figured I'd ignore until jinty told me they would be useful, which he did over the weekend. | 16:32 |
| th1a | Anyone else looked at this? | 16:32 |
| Lumiere | hi | 16:32 |
| th1a | Also, I'm having surgery on my gums tomorrow, which will slow me down a little, I suspect. | 16:33 |
| Lumiere | I know jelkner and mattva01 have | 16:33 |
| th1a | And I'm going to a conference in Indiana next week. | 16:33 |
| Lumiere | I am not an ubuntero, so I can't make one :) | 16:33 |
| th1a | Ah. | 16:33 |
| th1a | OK. That's me. jfroche? | 16:33 |
| jfroche | i went back to the school for update | 16:34 |
| jfroche | i have the new datas | 16:34 |
| jfroche | i go back this week to show them | 16:34 |
| jfroche | and still translating things in french | 16:34 |
| th1a | Anything else? | 16:36 |
| jfroche | nothing new except that | 16:36 |
| th1a | I'm thinking maybe I'll fly to Brussels on Nov. 1st, and we can meet on the 2nd? | 16:36 |
| jfroche | it's ok for me | 16:36 |
| jfroche | i ll ask Nicolas | 16:36 |
| jfroche | and send you a mail | 16:37 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:37 |
| aelkner_ | hello | 16:37 |
| th1a | ignas? | 16:37 |
| th1a | (we're going to rush along here and this'll be the day Welsh can't get online) | 16:37 |
| aelkner_ | Lumiere and I were going to ask about getting a frozen version of schoooltool | 16:38 |
| ignas | working on ajax for the gradebook, translating stuff, working on schooltool i18n, and preparing some things for release | 16:38 |
| th1a | Wait your turn aelkner_. | 16:38 |
| ignas | like adding generation utilities to our stapp2007 and stapp2005 | 16:38 |
| *** dwelsh has joined #schooltool | 16:38 | |
| Lumiere | lol | 16:38 |
| Lumiere | hi dwelsh | 16:38 |
| ignas | dwelsh: hi | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | good morning (EST) | 16:38 |
| th1a | ignas: Generation utilities? | 16:39 |
| ignas | though people in lyceum seems to be too busy to do anything which is disturbing :/ | 16:39 |
| ignas | th1a: evolution script stuff | 16:39 |
| ignas | i still don't have neither student lists, not timetables | 16:39 |
| ignas | and i find it very difficult to get through to them | 16:39 |
| ignas | now it seems that some guy is reworking their website, and should contact me about integration with schooltool soon | 16:40 |
| ignas | i hope it will happen soon ... | 16:40 |
| th1a | ignas: Hrm... this is becoming the most exasperating part of the project. | 16:40 |
| ignas | i know :/ i kind of expected to have schooltool deployed by now ... | 16:41 |
| th1a | I do understand why it is difficult... it is part of why I set up the budget to give you a big bonus for that last step. | 16:42 |
| th1a | It is a tough one. | 16:42 |
| th1a | OK. aelkner_, you're up. | 16:42 |
| th1a | Go Phillies! | 16:42 |
| aelkner_ | ok, i'm going to be creating a jelkner2007 package | 16:43 |
| aelkner_ | that will include overrides for things like making dashboard the default view | 16:43 |
| aelkner_ | then i will be able to clean up the jelkner-gradebook branch | 16:43 |
| aelkner_ | to have passing tests | 16:43 |
| aelkner_ | as making dashboard the default view has broken tests in four places | 16:44 |
| aelkner_ | then i have add some tests for the gradebook package | 16:44 |
| aelkner_ | and one quick one for jelkner2007 | 16:44 |
| aelkner_ | after that, I'll move on to adding functionality to cover the rest of jelkner's blueprints | 16:45 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:45 |
| aelkner_ | Yesterday was an incrdible day in Phillies history | 16:45 |
| th1a | Sounds good. I'm going to pick a date for our meeting with Chris. | 16:45 |
| aelkner_ | cool | 16:45 |
| aelkner_ | so you'll cone down and stay with him? | 16:46 |
| th1a | I'm going to try to do it in a day. | 16:46 |
| th1a | I used to fly to Chicago and back in one day all the time. | 16:46 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Any news particular to you? | 16:46 |
| aelkner_ | it looks like i'm virginia bound for mon october 8, so don't make it then | 16:47 |
| th1a | aelkner_: OK. | 16:47 |
| Lumiere | not from me | 16:48 |
| th1a | OK. dwelsh: You've got the floor. | 16:48 |
| Lumiere | I've been pretty well out of the loop this last 2 weeks | 16:48 |
| dwelsh | Mon, Oct 8th will be confirmed early this week, or else it will be moved to a day not long after that | 16:48 |
| dwelsh | that is, Oct 8th is tentative, but earnestly hoped-for | 16:48 |
| aelkner_ | kep th1a informed | 16:48 |
| aelkner_ | as he needs to schedule aroung it | 16:48 |
| dwelsh | right | 16:48 |
| aelkner_ | dwelsh, we wanted to discuss freezing schooltool for our purposes | 16:50 |
| dwelsh | correct | 16:50 |
| dwelsh | does it make sense to create a SchoolTool branch that supports our 07 package? | 16:51 |
| dwelsh | so that future SchoolTool changes won't inadvertently cause CanDo problems | 16:51 |
| ignas | dwelsh: i'd wait for schooltool release | 16:52 |
| aelkner_ | yeah, that's what we reaaly mean | 16:52 |
| aelkner_ | when is that going to happen? | 16:52 |
| ignas | no idea, ask jinty | 16:53 |
| th1a | We've got a jinty bottleneck. | 16:53 |
| dwelsh | Will SchoolTool remain stable for CanDo until the time of the release? | 16:53 |
| th1a | Well, tagging a release isn't so much the problem, right? | 16:54 |
| th1a | We just need to build the packages. | 16:54 |
| ignas | dwelsh: well, it kind of is stable | 16:54 |
| jinty | th1a: nope, it's really easy | 16:54 |
| ignas | dwelsh: i mean more than 2 weeks you had no buildbot breakages | 16:54 |
| ignas | because of schooltool | 16:54 |
| dwelsh | I don't think so | 16:54 |
| ignas | http://source.schooltool.org/buildbot/ | 16:54 |
| dwelsh | just a minor issue requiring us to refresh our browsers | 16:54 |
| th1a | Well, now that we have jinty's attention... | 16:54 |
| th1a | jinty: When can we push something out prior to Gutsy's release (the 18th?)? | 16:55 |
| th1a | How's your schedule look, jinty? | 16:55 |
| jinty | th1a: something, yes, it's quite easy now to create releases | 16:56 |
| jinty | the only real issue is that we cannot logically release a final release | 16:56 |
| jinty | until zope3.4 is finalized | 16:56 |
| jinty | but an alpha/beta version is easy | 16:56 |
| th1a | Yes, an alpha. | 16:57 |
| aelkner_ | that's all we need | 16:57 |
| jinty | th1a: just send me an e-mail when you need one | 16:57 |
| th1a | OK... | 16:58 |
| * jinty _really_ hopes that no dependencies have changed since europython | 16:58 | |
| th1a | Let's "officially" release on Friday. | 16:58 |
| dwelsh | This is great news. | 16:58 |
| dwelsh | Sounds like we should release on the tails of the SchoolTool release | 16:59 |
| dwelsh | ??? | 16:59 |
| th1a | Is that OK? | 16:59 |
| dwelsh | Works by my schedule | 16:59 |
| aelkner_ | ok | 16:59 |
| dwelsh | It would be nice having the package for the Virginia meeting | 16:59 |
| dwelsh | Oct. 8th at earliest | 16:59 |
| dwelsh | That way pioneering schools can load the app and poke around | 16:59 |
| th1a | What do we have to consider for translation related issues? | 17:00 |
| dwelsh | Matt says he's close to having the CanDo package ready... maybe a couple of days | 17:00 |
| th1a | Do we have relatively recent ones from LaunchPad? Can we upload the new templates after the release so what's on there will be relatively up to date? | 17:01 |
| Lumiere | and we can do a alphax.1 for the translation updates? | 17:02 |
| ignas | th1a: i will update templates just before the release | 17:03 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:03 |
| ignas | but the state of i18n is still quite bad ... | 17:03 |
| dwelsh | Welsh needs to go... anything else related to me? | 17:03 |
| dwelsh | th1a: will contact you shortly re: Open Minds travel | 17:03 |
| th1a | dwelsh: Not that I know of. OK. | 17:03 |
| dwelsh | Am on for Thurs. preso | 17:04 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:04 |
| th1a | Let me know if you need a bed. | 17:04 |
| dwelsh | will do... might be nice, as I'll only be there a short time | 17:04 |
| dwelsh | Wed eve | 17:04 |
| *** dwelsh has left #schooltool | 17:04 | |
| th1a | Do we need to update the README, etc? | 17:05 |
| th1a | I guess I should take a look at it. | 17:05 |
| th1a | Anything else that needs attention? | 17:07 |
| ignas | now - what's are the plans for jelkner branch? is it going to be something like jacqmain? | 17:07 |
| th1a | We can host the packages and tarballs on LP now, can't we? | 17:07 |
| ignas | jelkner becoming one of out "clients" | 17:07 |
| th1a | ignas: Yes, I guess so. | 17:07 |
| ignas | because it seems that he will need some more things other than gradebook | 17:07 |
| th1a | Yes, apparently so. | 17:07 |
| ignas | ok | 17:08 |
| ignas | any things you want to get done before the release? | 17:10 |
| ignas | i am fixing some bugs that seem important to me | 17:10 |
| ignas | maybe you have anything particular in mind? | 17:10 |
| th1a | I don't have any big bugs I'm keeping secret. | 17:11 |
| ignas | :) | 17:11 |
| th1a | OK, so I'll have the website ready and make an announcement on Friday. | 17:12 |
| ignas | ok, i'll hopefully fix unicode bugs in schooltool by then | 17:12 |
| ignas | and do some more i18n cleanups | 17:12 |
| ignas | as they are a "safe bet" | 17:12 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:13 |
| ignas | aelkner_: if you will want to implement preferred name functionality for jelkner | 17:13 |
| th1a | Now would be a good time. | 17:14 |
| ignas | aelkner_: tell me, i can vaguely describe how to do it | 17:14 |
| ignas | without touching schooltool | 17:14 |
| ignas | just from your jelkner 2007 branch | 17:14 |
| aelkner_ | i could do it after getting the jelkner2007 package set up | 17:14 |
| ignas | ok | 17:14 |
| ignas | th1a: a question - do we need transient section membership? | 17:16 |
| ignas | like section - group - person | 17:16 |
| th1a | Not sure what you mean? | 17:17 |
| ignas | well - groups at the moment can be members of a section | 17:18 |
| th1a | Oh... if a group is part of a section, how do you handle people entering and leaving the group during the term? | 17:18 |
| ignas | not just that, most programmers who try to list members of a section | 17:18 |
| ignas | forget listing transient members | 17:18 |
| th1a | Define "transient" in this case. | 17:19 |
| ignas | srichter gradebook actually crashes for such cases | 17:19 |
| ignas | person in a group, group in a section | 17:19 |
| ignas | while person is not a member of a section directly | 17:19 |
| aelkner_ | couldn't members be a property? | 17:20 |
| aelkner_ | which would resolve those issues for the caller | 17:20 |
| ignas | it is, it lists all the groups and persons that belong to a section | 17:20 |
| th1a | You know, allowing groups to be members of a section may be more trouble than it is worth. | 17:20 |
| ignas | th1a: i thought so, that's why i am asking you | 17:20 |
| aelkner_ | if the members property drilled down to the members of the goups | 17:20 |
| ignas | aelkner_: if you would look at course person.Info viewlet it list members separately | 17:21 |
| aelkner_ | then it would be tranparent wouldn't it | 17:21 |
| th1a | Basically, the disadvantage is that if you add someone to the group in the middle of the term, the administrator has to explicitly add them to all the right sections. | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | but define a time | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | where a group should really be in a section | 17:21 |
| ignas | as in - you are a member of sections a, b, c | 17:21 |
| th1a | That's the disadvantage of not having groups be section members. | 17:21 |
| ignas | and you are a member of section d through "some-group" | 17:22 |
| th1a | But the disadvantage of having groups be section members is much programming magic, that will become increasingly complex. | 17:22 |
| Lumiere | it's a bad idea | 17:22 |
| th1a | Because you can't have people appearing and disappearing from sections without being tracked. | 17:22 |
| ignas | th1a: it is actually doable using subscribers, if you need that very much | 17:22 |
| th1a | Right, it is possible. | 17:22 |
| ignas | but current state is just asking for bugs ... | 17:22 |
| th1a | But I think not worth it. | 17:22 |
| th1a | Also, the current design is not bad for a calendar. | 17:23 |
| aelkner_ | let's keep it simple | 17:23 |
| th1a | Not so good for a SIS. | 17:23 |
| aelkner_ | if we can | 17:23 |
| Lumiere | from a school oriented point of view sections shouldn't contain groups... | 17:23 |
| th1a | Well, essentially we're making it a little more complicated for the user but probably more reliable. | 17:23 |
| ignas | because only I still can remember how to properly list all the sections of a person and all the persons of a section ;) | 17:23 |
| ignas | Lumiere: actually with schooltool missing some features, eastern europeans would prefer having groups in sections ... | 17:24 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Also, for elementary schools here. | 17:24 |
| Lumiere | th1a: for elementary schools there are no sections | 17:24 |
| th1a | No, there are sections. | 17:24 |
| th1a | They just don't think of them as sections. | 17:24 |
| Lumiere | I guess I am too far removed | 17:25 |
| Lumiere | to remember how the scheduling went | 17:25 |
| Lumiere | th1a: I guess you could think of it as a group that has 10 sections with the same teachers | 17:25 |
| th1a | Anyhow, so adding a group to a section should add all those individuals in the group at that time. | 17:25 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Yes. | 17:25 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Or one all day section of "school." | 17:26 |
| Lumiere | well | 17:26 |
| Lumiere | if it is an all day section | 17:26 |
| Lumiere | we don't need a group | 17:26 |
| th1a | Yes... anyhow. | 17:26 |
| th1a | ... | 17:26 |
| th1a | Are we agreed on how this should be changed? | 17:27 |
| aelkner_ | how's that bag of gravel coming? | 17:27 |
| th1a | aelkner_: Getting heavy... | 17:27 |
| ignas | Lumiere: the feature was in here to accomodate Lithuanian scenarios, but they are more complex for that approach anyway ;) | 17:27 |
| Lumiere | ic | 17:27 |
| ignas | Lumiere: most of sections actually have the whole "group" in them all the time, so it's kind of convenient | 17:27 |
| aelkner_ | Lumiere: we don't need to use the feature just because it is there | 17:28 |
| ignas | Lumiere: but those few that need 1/2 or 1/3 of the group while the other half is in another section | 17:28 |
| ignas | break it so much, it just doesn't work | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | ignas: heh | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | aelkner_: I know | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | aelkner_: but I don't want features in there | 17:28 |
| th1a | ignas: I think we're on the same page about how to change it? | 17:28 |
| ignas | aelkner_: but you have to write code as if someone was using it | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | that could produce evil bugs | 17:28 |
| ignas | th1a: yep | 17:28 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:28 |
| aelkner_ | Lumiere: agreed | 17:29 |
| th1a | Cool. Any last words? | 17:29 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:30 | |
| th1a | Have a great week, gentlemen. | 17:30 |
| Lumiere | ta | 17:30 |
| aelkner_ | thanks. lookign forward to hearing about meeting with your friend | 17:30 |
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| jelkner | sorry i'm late | 18:48 |
| jelkner | who is chairing this meeting? | 18:48 |
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| jelkner | and where is dwelsh? | 18:49 |
| ignas | jelkner: don't know but he was here during schooltool meeting | 19:12 |
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| aelkner | ignas: i have a question about a test that's failing | 20:16 |
| ignas | yes | 20:16 |
| aelkner | File "/home/aelkner/jelkner-gradebook/src/schooltool/securitypolicy/browser/ftests/policy_table.txt", line 155, in policy_table.txt | 20:16 |
| aelkner | Failed example: | 20:16 |
| aelkner | column(alien, 'student1', '1') | 20:16 |
| aelkner | Differences (ndiff with -expected +actual): | 20:16 |
| aelkner | course: view | 20:16 |
| aelkner | - course activities: view | 20:16 |
| aelkner | I didn't do anything to change that package | 20:16 |
| aelkner | Does this look familiar to you? | 20:16 |
| ignas | hmm, not really, might be that you have changed the "title" of some link | 20:17 |
| aelkner | I didn't | 20:18 |
| ignas | you should look at the column function (well - the file that function is in) | 20:19 |
| ignas | and find the "function" (course_view or course_activities_view) | 20:19 |
| ignas | well - the one that is outputing different things now | 20:19 |
| aelkner | there are more | 20:19 |
| ignas | and call it before calling column() | 20:19 |
| aelkner | i just didn't want to croud the chat | 20:19 |
| ignas | that should give you the idea of what has changed | 20:20 |
| ignas | lisppaste5, url | 20:20 |
| lisppaste5 | To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/schooltool and enter your paste. | 20:20 |
| ignas | is always there | 20:20 |
| lisppaste5 | aelkner pasted "security functional tests" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/48479 | 20:21 |
| ignas | only course activities have changed | 20:22 |
| ignas | others are because of indentation | 20:22 |
| ignas | they don't affect the result | 20:22 |
| ignas | because NORMALIZE_WHITESPACE is used | 20:22 |
| aelkner | so why are they showing up in the diff? | 20:23 |
| aelkner | so my question is why would these tests be failing if i didn't change anything related to them? | 20:26 |
| aelkner | do i need to integrate some code to get them to pass? | 20:26 |
| ignas | aelkner, for the diff - it's like ... (ellipsis) even if it matches everything you still see it in the diff | 20:28 |
| ignas | aelkner, you have probably changed something related | 20:28 |
| ignas | maybe made dashboard the front view | 20:28 |
| ignas | maybe added some links or menu items | 20:28 |
| aelkner | i removed the code that made dashboard the front view | 20:28 |
| ignas | just look at it | 20:28 |
| ignas | find the function | 20:28 |
| ignas | see what it does to check if you can view activities | 20:29 |
| ignas | copy and paste it into the test | 20:29 |
| ignas | and see in which line it fails | 20:29 |
| aelkner | ignas: the issue is that an unauthorized use doesn't have permission to see course activities | 20:52 |
| aelkner | that would make sense, wouldn't it? | 20:52 |
| aelkner | or maybe not | 20:52 |
| ignas | depends on the school | 20:54 |
| ignas | in lyceum - timetables are public | 20:54 |
| aelkner | activities are not timetables | 20:54 |
| ignas | so hiding what you will learn on History course | 20:55 |
| ignas | would make no sense | 20:55 |
| ignas | i am comparing the level of privacy | 20:55 |
| ignas | most schools have very simmilar curriculums, don't they? | 20:55 |
| aelkner | i couldn't say | 20:56 |
| aelkner | but i do know why i changed the permission on the activities view | 20:56 |
| aelkner | because there is a delete button on the view | 20:56 |
| aelkner | so anyone who can see activities could get rid of them | 20:56 |
| aelkner | tat wouldn't be good | 20:57 |
| ignas | really? | 20:57 |
| ignas | won't you get an error | 20:57 |
| ignas | if you will click it? | 20:57 |
| ignas | permissions for views and objects are different most of the time | 20:57 |
| aelkner | maybe, but it doesn't make sense to give someone a button that will result in giving them an error | 20:57 |
| ignas | so hide the button | 20:57 |
| aelkner | i could do that using the canAccess method, right? | 20:58 |
| ignas | i think so, maybe canWrite ... | 20:58 |
| aelkner | ok, i'm sure i can work out that one | 20:59 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: expect a call from welsh | 21:20 |
| Lumiere | in ~5 | 21:20 |
| aelkner | ok | 21:20 |
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