IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2007-08-13

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fsufitchLumiere, ayt?04:35
Lumiereyou've been given the task of new skin testing and non-hackish bug fixes04:44
Lumierefsufitch: if you can be around 9:30-11 tomorrow04:45
Lumierethat'd be good04:45
fsufitch...... .wTF!?04:45
fsufitchthat's the response i was trying to get to, but i think you're psychic, Lumiere04:45
Lumierewas it not obvious XD04:46
Lumiereand I spent as much time as I could with my girlfriend this weekend04:46
Lumiereafter ignoring the crap outta her all last week04:46
LumiereI was trying to back fill the hole with me still in it04:47
fsufitchi know what ur talking about :)04:48
fsufitchanyway, thanx for the task04:48
fsufitchbut non-hackish? come on!04:48
Lumiereyou have commit access04:48
Lumierebut if we have to clean everything you do04:48
Lumiereyou're on the short list04:48
fsufitchi c04:48
fsufitchfine, u wont have to clean it04:49
fsufitchi.e. i'll make it uncleanable ;)04:49
fsufitchi won't do crazy stuff anymore04:49
fsufitchbut don't ask me to redo the actions menu04:49
fsufitchthat was a nightmare04:49
fsufitchwell, not really04:49
fsufitchbut it's somewhat impossible to do with CSS only04:49
LumiereI am sure that eldar has a way he wants that04:49
fsufitchso i'll ask him04:50
Lumierethere is a menu like that04:50
Lumierein schooltool04:50
Lumierehow does it work?04:50
fsufitchit just does.04:50
fsufitchmeh, i'll check it out04:50
fsufitchi can't now tho04:50
fsufitchsorta busy04:50
Lumieremaybe we can plug it04:51
Lumiereanyways... tomorrow 9:30-11 for cando and schooltool dev meetings05:00
fsufitch((sweet, i get to excuse myself from swimming practice))05:05
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Lumierefsufitch: who do you swim for06:11
fsufitchLumiere, my parents06:24
fsufitchno swim team, it's just the only way that i don't turn into a cucumber06:25
fsufitch*the only way i can prevent myself from turning into a cucumber06:25
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ignasLumiere: ping13:22
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jfrochehello ignas, how was the sprint in the us ?13:55
ignasquite nice13:55
jfrochethey are ready for a release ?13:55
ignasnot sure14:01
ignasthey still have failing functional tests14:02
ignasso i guess pcardune and eldar are still cleaning up14:02
ignasi was just going to ask how to get to gradebook views in cando16:02
ignasand where functional tests for them are16:02
ignasbut functional tests are probably missing16:03
ignasthe view takes up 1.4 mb and takes 2 minutes to render16:03
ignasand it has like 3 rendering bugs, and no error handling ;)16:03
Lumierepaul has been rewriting gradebook stuff16:03
ignasso i won't be able to steal a lot of code from there for my gradebook ;)16:04
LumiereI am hoping he'll be on for some part of this16:04
LumiereI think you will once he finishes his refactor16:04
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Lumierehi jelkner16:09
jelknerLumiere: good morning16:13
jelkneras you can see, i made it online16:14
jelknerand in time for the meeting16:14
Lumiereyes, I am amazed16:14
jelknermy friend has dsl, so it wasn't a problem16:14
Lumiereeldar will be on in 75 minutes, he has to visit the dentist16:16
jelknerand pcardune?16:16
Lumiereit's 6:1516:16
jelknerand aelkner?16:16
LumiereI haven't heard anything from paul16:17
Lumiereaelkner is usually on, see no reason to suspect otherwise16:17
jelkneralan told me he would join at 9:30 am16:17
Lumierebut th1a usually rolls in right at 9:3016:17
* jelkner goes back to checking email until 9:30...16:18
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Lumiere'morning aelkner, th1a16:24
th1aGood morning Lumiere.16:24
aelknergood morning16:24
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* th1a shuffles some papers around.16:29
th1aGood morning ignas, jfroche, Lumiere, aelkner, fsufitch, et. al.16:29
Lumiereyes, it is morning16:30
aelknerindeed it is16:30
th1ajfroche: Want to start us off with an update, since the rest of us saw each other a few days ago?16:30
jfrocheyep i am working on the production instance16:31
th1aThen we'll update you ;-)16:31
jfrochefor them to work with16:31
jfrochelast week i went in france so i wasn t productive there16:32
th1aOh yes.16:32
jfrochei meet with the school on the 2016:32
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th1aOh, hi pcardune.16:33
Lumierehi pcardune16:33
jfrocheand how was the sprint ?16:33
pcarduneI think it went pretty well16:33
Lumiereproductive when we had net16:33
th1aI wrote a post last night:
pcardunecool, *reading*16:35
jfrochewow 25 !16:35
th1aI think that's accurate.16:35
fsufitchyep, i think so too16:35
Lumiere25 is aboout right16:36
th1ajfroche: So what are the main hazards for you right now?16:37
jfrochewill be for them a busy month16:39
jelknerth1a: 27 in total16:39
jelkneri know, because i bought 25 meal cards16:39
jelknerand came up 2 short ;-)16:39
th1ajfroche: Yes, keeping yourself in their loop may be difficult.16:40
th1aIf we end up starting out just testing with a core group inside the school, that is much, much better than nothing.16:41
ignaspcardune: are there any functional tests for your competency gradebook16:41
jfrocheyep that's what i told them, to find people motivated16:41
th1aOK.  Don't let them forget about you.16:42
pcarduneignas: Some.  I need to write more.  I'm finding it somewhat difficult to test16:42
jfrocheth1a: sure16:42
th1apcardune: huh?16:42
th1aLumiere: Can you send a sprint summary to the schooltool list?16:43
pcarduneth1a: that was in reference ti ignas's question16:43
aelknerpcardune: as far as security testing for the gradebook, that you can leave to my tests in newskin16:43
LumiereI'll write it today16:43
Lumierenow that I am out of the complete doghouse with the gf16:43
th1apcardune: Oh.  I see. Sorry.16:44
th1aLumiere: Thanks.16:44
th1aignas: Anything to report in the last half-week?  How was your flight?16:45
th1ajfroche: Can you send me a July invoice?  I need to get those in.16:45
ignasquite nice, thank you16:45
ignasdidn't do anything16:45
th1aNo overnight stays in transit?16:45
jfrocheth1a: right doing it now16:45
th1ajfroche: Thanks.16:45
ignasso don't have anything to report16:45
th1aOK.  Understandable.16:46
th1amgedmin got his N800?16:46
* mgedmin thanks16:47
th1aI'm going to work on cranking out more help files this week.16:47
Lumiereignas: did you ever get that diff from our help writers16:48
fsufitchhm, i was under the impression that they turned _something_ out16:49
Lumierethat sucks16:49
fsufitchLumiere, at how much you hammered them, it must suck to know it had no effect ;)16:49
fsufitchor maybe it was eldar that hammered them16:49
ignasi got them16:50
ignasin my spambox16:50
ignasmessage was quite concise16:50
ignas"Here's a .diff file of all the help topics for SchoolTool."16:50
ignas6 days ago16:50
aelknerfrom whom?16:50
ignasBao Vuong16:51
Lumierethat's the one16:51
ignaschinese name + short message + attachment16:51
ignasthe recipe for spam ;)16:51
Lumierewe'll see if it does anything16:51
Lumiereignas: yes16:51
aelknerjelkner: did Bao said he was done with help16:51
Lumierefsufitch: we both hammer spammed them16:51
aelkneralso, i thought linda was working on that16:51
jelkneraelkner: not at all16:52
jelkneri'll give you a call later to talk about help16:52
jelknerwe need a good plan16:52
fsufitchbtw, apart from some visual ugliness, the help button is ready to use16:52
fsufitchand it should work as soon as the help files are in16:53
Lumierepcardune: I have a quote present for you16:53
Lumiere20:29:34 < Lumiere> you've been given the task of new skin testing and non-hackish bug fixes16:53
Lumiere20:33:23 < Lumiere> but if we have to clean everything you do16:53
Lumiere20:33:46 < fsufitch> fine, u wont have to clean it16:53
pcardunehe he16:54
fsufitchLumiere, why didn't you quote my miranda rights first?16:54
Lumieredidn't need to16:55
Lumiereyou don't have any  ^^16:55
Lumiereaelkner: do you want to take a minute16:56
Lumiereto go through where we are16:56
pcardunefsufitch: you should check out tango icons... the collection of open source icons for use in open source applications16:56
fsufitchyeah, u showed it to me16:56
fsufitchi'll be using it16:56
pcardunefsufitch: and if they don't have something good, then inkscape is a great program for making your own16:57
fsufitchor the gimp :)16:57
aelknerLumiere: we have a plan that we've drawn up in our gobby session.16:57
aelknerWe could discuss that16:57
pcardunefsufitch: you will find inkscape to be easier i think16:57
fsufitchi've never used it before16:58
fsufitchbesides, i've done much more gimp magicks in the past16:58
ignaspcardune: are you going to work on performance of comp gradebook ?16:58
Lumiereaelkner: for everyone here16:58
Lumierecan you post it to somewhere16:58
Lumiereand talk through it with people16:59
aelkneri'll paste it16:59
pcarduneignas: yes at some point, can you recommend a good (automated) way to generate performance reports?16:59
ignaswhat reports, the file is 1.4 megabyte large16:59
ignas no profiling can make that load up fast ;)16:59
ignasyour javascript generation and ids in every cell seem quite excessive17:00
lisppaste5aelkner pasted "planning doc for cando completion" at
ignasand the idea to use div's instead of cells + inputs with tabindex seems to add to the size of file17:00
aelknerbasically we have listed the developers available and the remaining work to be done17:01
ignasi think if you would make gradebook a table, you could store student ids in the row with student row and take it everytime from there instead of embedding it everywhere17:01
ignasif that makes any sense to you17:01
aelkneranyone should fell free to gobby in to to make any additions/changes they fell appropriate17:01
th1aSometimes a table is a table.17:01
pcarduneignas: yes it does, the problem is when gradebooks are quite big and you have to scroll far to the right to see the grades and you loose the student ids17:02
pcarduneand making student ids "follow" the scrolling is very difficult, i've tried it17:02
Lumierethat's how we had it... and it was... problematic17:03
ignasoh and the hover ons are rendering too far to the right, statistics tables are overlapping when expanding, error handling is not working properlyt i think17:03
ignaspcardune: i am talking about the sourcecode17:03
aelknerpcardune: we have you down for completing gradebook by 8/13, but if it takes you longer to get the testing to be super robust, that should be ok17:03
ignaspcardune: you have student URL in every single input box, which adds to the size of the html a lot17:03
fsufitchwhy can't it all be one table? from what i've seen of gradebooks they're 2+ tables, always17:03
aelkneri don;t know where eldar is with journal notification17:04
pcardunewhere is eldar btw?17:04
pcarduneignas: oh that, yes, that could deffinitely be changed17:04
aelknerjelkner, did you tell him about this meeting when you last spoke to him?17:04
jelknerLumiere told me this morning he is at the dentist17:05
jelkneri did tell him17:05
Lumierehe will be on at 10:3017:05
jelknerbut i did not send out the reminder email i said i would17:05
jelkner(i didn't have time)17:05
Lumierewe got evercyone17:05
Lumierewelsh is unavailable and sent email17:06
Lumiereeldar will be on at 10:3017:06
aelknerso i'll be writing the security tests, and Lumiere should check them when they get advanced enough17:06
aelkneryou can check them against your spreadsheet17:07
pcarduneaelkner: 8/13 is completion for testing purposes for welsh, but a more finished polishing will be available later in the week17:07
aelknerpcardune: sounds good17:07
aelknerwhat's the deal with matt's availability, jelkner17:07
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jelknerhe should be available after 10 am17:08
jelkneri can call him17:08
pcarduneignas: ah yes, the hover-ons... I guess I only tested those with competencies with the doctest which have very short titles and I probably forgot to put a max-size for the hovers17:08
jelknerbut an email ought to do the trick17:08
jelkneri'm visiting here in El Salvador, so i can't be on the computer all the time17:09
aelkneryou're already in El Salvador?17:09
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pcarduneignas__: having connectivity issues?17:10
ignas__pcardune: marius was showing me how to connect to internet using my phone17:10
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pcardunelol, cool17:10
* ignas__ will go on vacation the day after tomorrow17:10
ignas__so it's kind of work related ;)17:10
pcarduneaelkner: me and eldar were thinking it might be better to have those test files be lowercase17:11
th1aignas__: good to know.17:11
aelknerpcardune: why?17:11
aelkneruppercase indicates their purpose17:11
pcarduneREADMEs are uppercase just because you are supposed to notice that file in the directory before you notice the other files in the directory17:11
th1aI'm going to wrap up the official SchoolTool part of the meeting.17:11
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:11
* Lumiere picks it up17:12
pcarduneaelkner: if you look in zope source code, the places where there are multiple testing files like that (or any testing files not called README.txt), they are lowercase17:12
aelkneri'll change them17:12
pcardunetypically, there can be a README.txt that says "oh, btw, you should also probably read this.txt, that.txt, and theotherthing.txt, which talk about this that and the other thing.17:13
Lumierepcardune: should we think about having a folder for these17:13
LumiereI'll brb17:14
aelkneralso, i'm changing groupless.txt to authenticated.txt to match jason's doc17:14
pcardunewell, maybe if we really want, it wouldn't hurt to put them in a directory called ftests17:14
pcarduneaelkner: ok, cool17:14
pcardunei suppose when you think about it, "groupless" sounds kind of funny... like "headless" or something, or "legless", or "armless"17:15
ignas__pcardune: as for functional tests, you can just add a submit button, that is not shown for users with javascript and have the form function even without ajax17:15
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pcarduneignas: hmm, yes that would be a good idea17:17
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fsufitcheldar, hello17:17
eldarhi all17:17
ignaspcardune: i am going to be doing it the other way around ;) i have forms working, and i will be adding ajax to them17:17
pcardunecool, are you going to use z3c.form + z3c.formjs?17:18
ignasnope ;)17:18
pcardunefair enough17:18
ignasit's easier for me to just add handlers to existing forms17:18
ignasas forms are already working17:19
ignasso i can just use some selector to hook into all the table cells17:19
ignasfrom one central location17:19
ignasall i need is "disabled" input boxes in all the cells, the meeting id, and student id can be gathered from the row and column the cell is in17:20
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ignasso it should not add to the size of the table17:21
ignasonly rendering input boxes for one row and one column in the gradebook was a major time saver17:22
ignasbecause submitting a form with 700 input boxes17:22
ignastakes way too much in firefox17:22
ignasrendering all the boxes with event ids in them17:22
pcardunewe have the same thing, except it is more like 5000 :)17:22
ignastakes a lot of time and space too17:22
ignasthat's why i'd rather not render any ids, and try accessing them on click17:23
pcarduneor well, maybe more like 250017:23
ignasas your student="long-url-here" seems like a huge duplication of the information17:23
ignas91 character * 2500 cells is 222 kb17:25
eldardial up users will be in deep shiet!17:25
ignasthe generated script that hooks up to each and every cell personally instead of getting them by css class17:26
ignas190 kb17:26
ignasok, 160 kb17:26
eldarlol, are starting to optimize now? because I've never ever seen this project count kilobytes17:26
eldarof the webpages17:26
ignaseldar: not really, it takes 2 minutes to render on zope side17:26
ignasso you can download it17:27
ignasduring that time17:27
eldardamn, 2 minutes17:27
aelknerignas: i once had a problem with a spreadsheet in a web app with size and dial-up speed17:30
aelknerso our solution was17:31
aelknerto send a table of info17:31
aelknerand autogenerate the form with some javascript17:31
aelknerbut it wasn't pretty17:31
ignashmm, interesting17:31
aelknerand would be quite hackish i suppose17:31
pcarduneyeah, that is one option17:32
fsufitchheh, hackish <_<17:32
Lumierefsufitch's style17:32
aelknerif we do that, we must be sure to document in deatil17:32
pcardunethe javascript gets kind of nasty though, and it is hard to suddenly say, oh and I also want to render this other data as well17:32
ignaspcardune: by the way, with all the ajax around, why are you rendering all the tables at the same time17:32
ignasnot just the table that you just clicked on17:33
pcarduneignas that is changing17:33
ignasi see17:33
pcardunethe first time I tried to do it, I kept messing up on getting the right position in the dom to inject the new table17:33
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aelknereldar: what should fsufitch work on in the short term?17:35
pcarduneignas: it is helpful to have lots of ids in the dom elements so you don't have to jump around, traversing through the dom if you just know the exact id of what you are looking for17:35
eldaryou can use him how you see fit on the new skin17:35
fsufitch>_< that sounds so bad17:35
pcarduneit also becomes easier to handle when you change the page template slightly and the dom structure changes but the ids are the same17:36
aelknerfsufitch: i'll try to keepo it appropriate :)17:36
ignaspcardune: if you can fit everything in a suitable amount of space, then yes it's easier to develop17:36
aelknerwould you like to work on security testing with me?17:36
fsufitchaelkner, tyvm17:36
eldarfsufitch: sorry it's too early in the morning to make euphoric statments17:36
fsufitchfor keeping it appropriate17:36
ignaspcardune: maybe just separating the page into separately loadable tables would be enough17:36
Lumierethank you very much17:36
aelknergot it17:37
fsufitchbleh, yes, i'd like to do security testing17:37
fsufitchif u teach me how to do it...17:37
aelknerok, we could meet after this meeting in my gobby session17:37
fsufitchis it just ftests?17:37
fsufitchi c17:37
ignaspcardune: though using divs to display a table made me wander around the code for quite a while17:37
aelknerand bug fixeds of course17:37
eldarignas: who's using divs to display tables!?17:37
ignaseldar: competency gradebook17:37
ignasis using <tr><td><divs with names></td><td><divs with grades></td></tr>17:38
ignaswhich gives the nice plus of having tab order sane - top to bottom17:38
ignasbut makes the implementation quite unusual to read17:38
aelknerfsufitch: join our gobby session on
ignasand you can do taborder with tabindex="1234"17:39
ignason inputs and links17:39
pcarduneignas: if you saw the gradebook code before... oh man... you would probably have a mental break down looking at the code17:40
pcarduneI think that happened to some people... he he he17:40
pcardunethat was the version that was all tables17:41
Lumierethat thing17:41
Lumieremade me cry17:41
eldari don't remember anything about it because my brain refuses to recall the painful memories17:42
fsufitchlol, memory suppression17:43
Lumierefsufitch: you will learn it17:43
fsufitchpcardune, remember i worked with the gradebook?17:44
pcarduneeldar: have you looked at the grade book code now?  it is much more reasonable17:44
fsufitchsorta explains some of my peculiarities17:44
Lumierewho put an intern on gradebook17:44
Lumiereit's teaching hackishness!17:44
fsufitchi dont remember who did it17:45
fsufitchbut i had to make the print view17:45
fsufitchby basically stripping down the gradebook17:45
Lumiereoh yea17:45
Lumierefsufitch: needs to rewrite printable views17:45
eldarit wasn't bad stop complaining17:45
fsufitchyes, yes i know17:45
fsufitchi'm on that, along with other stuff17:46
aelknerok, so let's have fsufitch do that before joining my effort?17:46
aelkneror will he be blocking on pcardune?17:46
fsufitchaelkner, what do you mean "blocking on"17:47
pcarduneno, he won't be17:47
Lumierefsufitch: blocking on means that pcardune'd have to finish his stuff17:47
aelknerwaiting for a change before being able to proceed17:47
Lumierebefore you could work17:47
fsufitchno, i wouldn't do that17:47
fsufitchcuz this printview is not a stripped down gradebook17:47
aelknerit's independent?17:48
aelknera separate view class and template i presume?17:48
eldarjust template17:48
fsufitchwait, i was making a view class too...17:48
eldarhuh? what did you need a separate view class for17:48
aelknerwhat's your eta on having that finished?17:48
eldaraelkner: he would have to look at the way existing gradebook is done first17:49
eldarbefore he can give an eta17:49
fsufitchi dont know how much time i'm going to have for work, but i would say a min of a few days17:49
fsufitchit's a big thing to do17:49
fsufitchi won't be able to help you _too_ soon17:49
aelkneri would think so17:49
aelknerthat's ok17:49
aelkneri don't need it as much as we need what you're doing17:50
* pcardune just made the most perfect soft boiled egg17:50
fsufitchpcardune, for a minute i thought you were talking about zope eggs17:50
Lumiereis there any other business?17:55
Lumierelol ignas broke ftests17:56
fsufitch*cricket chirps*17:56
aelknerLumiere: could you email matt to find out when he can work with you?17:56
ignasLumiere: yes i did, had no time to fix them yet.17:56
ignasnot sure whether i should rollback my devmode changes or just remove parts of devmode functionality17:56
Lumiereaelkner: I'll deal with that from work17:56
* Lumiere places the bag of gravel back on th1a's desk17:57
Lumierethanks for coming everyone17:57
th1athanks Lumiere.17:58
aelknerso is this meeting winding down?17:58
Lumierethe gravel marks the end of the meeting ;)17:59
jelknerbefore we end17:59
Lumierewe're too cheap for a gavel17:59
jelknernext week at 10:30, yes?17:59
Lumiereso we have gravel17:59
Lumierejelkner: yes17:59
aelkner10:30 is cando meeting17:59
Lumierebut if you can be here a couple minutes early17:59
Lumierethat's best17:59
jelknerdo i need to send an email17:59
Lumiereit's in the topic18:00
jelknerit is on the calendar18:00
jelknerok then, see you'all next week18:00
aelkneri'll be there at 9:30 to catch any schooltool developments18:00
LumiereI am trying to get some overlap between us and th1a's meeting18:00
jelknergood idea18:00
aelknerok, jelkner, enjoy El Salvador18:00
jelkneri'm already introducing a 12 year old to ubuntu18:01
aelkneryour subversion is dangerous18:01
jelkner(i hope so)18:02
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* pcardune goes to get dressed and get some exercise18:04
pcarduneby get dressed, i mean out of my pajamas18:04
pcarduneI dont attend meetings in the nude... not even if they are on irc. lol18:05
ignasthank you18:05
aelkneryes, as David Letterman once said, "some people shouldn't be allowed to be naked in private"18:06
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fsufitchsomeone broke template.pt18:08
fsufitchthey deleted a </script>18:09
fsufitchi fixed it18:14
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Lumierewb pcardune20:19
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paolobHi guys! I'm trying to install in edubuntu feisty according to
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Lumierelove when people stay under 2 minutes21:30
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totherabchey i´ve got a problem with the installation of schooltool: if I input: sudo apt-get install schooltool the error :23:01
totherabcThe following packages have unmet dependencies:23:01
totherabc  schooltool: Depends: python2.4-schooltool (= 0.11.4-1ubuntu4) but it is not going to be installed23:01
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*** Lumiere changes topic to "SchoolTool development | SchoolTool 0.11.4 is unsupported - new trial release coming in Ubuntu Gutsy | IRC logs at | Dev meetings Mon, 13:30 UTC (15:30 EET) - CanDo Dev meetings Mon, 14:30 UTC (10:30 US/Eastern) | Use for pasting"23:47

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