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| *** ignas changes topic to "SchoolTool development | IRC logs at http://source.schooltool.org/irclogs/ | Dev meetings Mon, 13:30 UTC (15:30 EET) | Use http://paste.lisp.org/new/schooltool for pasting | CanDo dev meeting Tuesday 1600 UTC/Noon Eastern || CanDo Sprint Today 9 am - 4 pm US/Eastern | if ignas is not in the meeting - he's still in Lyceum" | 11:46 | |
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| pcardune | Lumiere: when is the schooltool dev meeting? | 15:45 |
|---|---|---|
| pcardune | ignas: what is the schooltool dev meeting? | 15:50 |
| pcardune | what=when | 15:50 |
| ignas | in 40 minutes or so i think | 15:50 |
| Lumiere | morning all | 16:04 |
| jfroche | hello | 16:07 |
| *** th1a has joined #schooltool | 16:08 | |
| ignas | hi | 16:08 |
| th1a | ignas: Hi. | 16:12 |
| jfroche | Hello Tom ! | 16:15 |
| th1a | Hi Jean-Francois. | 16:15 |
| th1a | ignas: Is the hotel booked up for EuroPython? | 16:15 |
| ignas | no idea | 16:15 |
| th1a | I just realized I hadn't booked our rooms. | 16:15 |
| ignas | oh | 16:16 |
| ignas | our sprint wiki page is not very informative | 16:16 |
| th1a | Well, that's something we can talk about today. | 16:16 |
| jfroche | some people from the outside showed interest in the schooltool sprint ? | 16:16 |
| th1a | I haven't considered it much of a possibility. | 16:17 |
| ignas | http://wiki.python.org/moin/SchoolToolSprint | 16:18 |
| jfroche | lol | 16:18 |
| th1a | Ah. Tobias will be disappointed. | 16:20 |
| *** eldar has joined #schooltool | 16:22 | |
| Lumiere | 'morning eldar | 16:22 |
| eldar | good morning | 16:23 |
| Cripps | is the schooltool dev meeting held in here? | 16:23 |
| eldar | yes | 16:24 |
| Lumiere | in about 5 minutes Cripps | 16:24 |
| Cripps | cool. do you mind spectators? ;) | 16:24 |
| th1a | Not at all. | 16:24 |
| Lumiere | welcome to the party | 16:24 |
| Cripps | sweet. I like parties ... especially when they involve talk about code ;) ... that's why nobody comes to my parties :P | 16:25 |
| jfroche | in the scoresystems, we have a RangedValuesScoreSystem , why _minPassingScore and not minPassingScore ? I had to create a new scoresystem + interfaces, to be able to change this attribute from a view ... | 16:29 |
| th1a | jfroche: You'd have to ask Stephan... | 16:30 |
| jfroche | oh i thought it was pcardune | 16:31 |
| th1a | Oh... well I don't know who did what. | 16:31 |
| th1a | But Stephan wrote most of it. | 16:31 |
| th1a | Which means you can change it whoever you want. | 16:31 |
| th1a | however. | 16:31 |
| th1a | OK... let's get started. | 16:31 |
| th1a | What have you been up to jfroche? | 16:32 |
| jfroche | worked on view, began the report html & look at pdf | 16:32 |
| jfroche | got news from the school | 16:32 |
| jfroche | but until next week they are busy with the deliberations | 16:33 |
| th1a | Understandable. | 16:33 |
| jfroche | i meet nicolas tomorrow and friday | 16:33 |
| th1a | Good. | 16:33 |
| jfroche | i need to show him how to translate things | 16:33 |
| th1a | Have you looked at pdftemplate or are you planning on using ReportLab? | 16:34 |
| jfroche | i am using reportlab | 16:34 |
| jfroche | i know if quite well | 16:34 |
| jfroche | s/if/it | 16:34 |
| th1a | OK. Good. | 16:34 |
| *** pcardune_ has joined #schooltool | 16:34 | |
| * Lumiere hands th1a some papers to shuffle | 16:34 | |
| pcardune_ | hello | 16:35 |
| *** pcardune has quit IRC | 16:35 | |
| Lumiere | hi pcardune | 16:35 |
| jfroche | but i don't know pdftemplate | 16:35 |
| pcardune_ | I woke up at dawn this morning, so I'm able to attend :) | 16:35 |
| Lumiere | pcardune_: eldar's here too | 16:35 |
| th1a | jfroche: If you know ReportLab that's fine. | 16:36 |
| jfroche | ok | 16:36 |
| th1a | pdftemplate allows you to use XML markup. | 16:36 |
| th1a | It is something I'd like to integrate *someday*. | 16:36 |
| th1a | But right now it is just another dependency, which is best avoided if not strictly needed. | 16:37 |
| th1a | pcardune_: Which part of the world are you in? | 16:37 |
| pcardune_ | eastern washington state now | 16:37 |
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| th1a | jfroche: Anything else? | 16:39 |
| jfroche | euh about Europython, i ll need to leave on the 13 evening | 16:39 |
| *** Lumiere changes topic to "SchoolTool development | IRC logs at http://source.schooltool.org/irclogs/ | Dev meetings Mon, 13:30 UTC (15:30 EET) | Use http://paste.lisp.org/new/schooltool for pasting | CanDo dev meeting Tuesday 1600 UTC/Noon Eastern (Last week before we move to Monday 10:30 Eastern)" | 16:40 | |
| th1a | OK. | 16:40 |
| jfroche | when are you arriving there ? | 16:40 |
| th1a | jfroche: Can you register yourself for EuroPython & invoice me? | 16:41 |
| th1a | I am arriving the 8th. | 16:41 |
| jfroche | ok will do the same then | 16:41 |
| jfroche | no problem | 16:41 |
| th1a | pcardune_: I'll register you. | 16:42 |
| th1a | OK... ignas? | 16:42 |
| ignas | i have written some code for schoolyear migration, and this morning i met with Bronius Skūpas to find out how should Attendance reports work | 16:43 |
| ignas | and straighten out some tricky journal usage cases | 16:43 |
| ignas | 2 sections comming to the same meeting or something like that | 16:43 |
| *** pcardune__ has joined #schooltool | 16:43 | |
| ignas | as he suggested a very nice way of implementing the attendance overview i think i'll try to implement it | 16:44 |
| th1a | Good. | 16:44 |
| Lumiere | wb * 3 pcardune_ | 16:44 |
| pcardune__ | (using some randon wifi | 16:44 |
| ignas | that's kind of everything i did, the school year switch is a quite difficult topic | 16:45 |
| *** pcardune__ is now known as pcardune | 16:45 | |
| th1a | Indeed. | 16:45 |
| th1a | I'm happy to hear you're at the point of writing some code for it. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Lumiere? | 16:45 |
| Lumiere | we had a sprint, which I'll let pcardune discuss since he's here | 16:46 |
| th1a | Oh... right. | 16:46 |
| Lumiere | and our weekly meetings start thursday | 16:47 |
| th1a | My phone didn't ring, so I guess there wasn't a disaster. | 16:47 |
| Lumiere | eldar, if you have anything to add you're welcome to pop in | 16:47 |
| eldar | without zpkg cando doesn't build properly anymore :( | 16:47 |
| Lumiere | th1a: there are some lingering problems with the change over from zpkg to eggs for cando trunk, but it'll get solved | 16:47 |
| th1a | Yes, it has been a nasty transition. | 16:48 |
| pcardune | we came across more build problems | 16:49 |
| th1a | I'm not sure it could be done much better, considering everything underneath us was shifting at the same time. | 16:49 |
| pcardune | the eggs-redux merege broke our checkouts | 16:49 |
| pcardune | we are in serious need of a builtbot | 16:50 |
| th1a | Do you know what the problems are? | 16:50 |
| pcardune | that is priority #1 for us this week | 16:50 |
| Lumiere | the cando zcml slugs aren't written during the process | 16:50 |
| Lumiere | I either need to get a buildbot up locally | 16:50 |
| ignas | well - yes, because schooltool and schooltool-lyceum are using fixed site.zcmls | 16:50 |
| ignas | you should do that too at the moment | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | or I need to talk with jinty about getting a cando buildbot running | 16:51 |
| ignas | buildbot identifies problems, not solves them ;) | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | yes | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | but buildbot would have given us a couple weeks to fix it before the sprint | 16:51 |
| pcardune | :) | 16:52 |
| th1a | ignas: By "fixed site.zcmls" do you mean "corrected" or "static?" | 16:52 |
| Lumiere | static | 16:52 |
| ignas | th1a: static | 16:52 |
| th1a | Is that something that will have to be fixed eventually? | 16:52 |
| th1a | Or is that a permanent solution? | 16:53 |
| ignas | permanent i | 16:53 |
| ignas | i'd say | 16:53 |
| ignas | not sure about how it will be in a debian package though | 16:53 |
| Lumiere | it would have to be done by post-install scripting | 16:54 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:54 |
| ignas | no not that, i am talking about the static/dynamic balance | 16:54 |
| *** pcardune_ has quit IRC | 16:55 | |
| * pcardune wonders if anyone can see this (internet has been shaky here) | 16:55 | |
| Lumiere | we can | 16:55 |
| th1a | pcardune: Still see you. | 16:55 |
| th1a | ignas: Anything else? | 16:56 |
| th1a | Er. | 16:56 |
| th1a | Sorry. | 16:56 |
| th1a | pcardune: Anything else? | 16:56 |
| ignas | th1a: no not really | 16:56 |
| th1a | Hopefully you got something done at the sprint other than identifying build problems. | 16:56 |
| Lumiere | pcardune and I got some procedural stuff written | 16:57 |
| eldar | oh yeah, we got stuff done, started working on the new specifications, kept working on the already existing ones | 16:58 |
| Lumiere | I am in Vermont Thursday - Monday this week | 16:58 |
| Lumiere | so I'll be missing next weeks meeting | 16:59 |
| th1a | The interns will be meeting every Thursday? | 16:59 |
| Lumiere | Tuesday and Thursday 1-6pm Eastern | 16:59 |
| th1a | f2f? | 16:59 |
| Lumiere | f2f? | 17:00 |
| th1a | Face to face? | 17:00 |
| Lumiere | yes | 17:00 |
| Lumiere | @ACC | 17:00 |
| th1a | OK. Cool. | 17:00 |
| Lumiere | they're also required to complete 10 hours outside that | 17:00 |
| Lumiere | (20 a week total) | 17:00 |
| th1a | Anything else from CanDo-Land? | 17:01 |
| Lumiere | not that I can think of, pcardune or eldar? | 17:01 |
| eldar | nothing comes to my mind ... | 17:02 |
| * pcardune experiences much lag | 17:02 | |
| * pcardune is going home soon to get on a real network | 17:03 | |
| th1a | OK. I've been getting ready to spend three of the next four weeks traveling, so I haven't been terribly productive otherwise I'm afraid. | 17:04 |
| th1a | OK -- let's talk EuroPython. | 17:04 |
| th1a | So the main goal is packaging and preparing a Gutsy release. | 17:05 |
| th1a | I'd like to spend some time making sure we've pared out unnecessary obselete stuff that doesn't work. | 17:06 |
| Lumiere | I'd like to make sure that it gets removed from svn if it won't be coming back | 17:07 |
| Lumiere | :) | 17:07 |
| th1a | And made the initial user experience generally pleasant. | 17:07 |
| Lumiere | so, we don't care about user experience after they get started? ;) | 17:07 |
| th1a | Well, for people trying this out on their Ubuntu boxes, just the first 10 seconds make a big difference. | 17:08 |
| th1a | 1) sudo apt-get install schooltool; | 17:08 |
| th1a | 2) "wtf?" | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | yea | 17:08 |
| th1a | 3) sudo apt-get remove schooltool. | 17:08 |
| ignas | isn't schooltool release only being made because CanDo needs it to make their release? | 17:09 |
| th1a | Not really. It is to get back into the flow with Ubuntu as well. | 17:09 |
| ignas | i mean - my idea was that we are not trying to encourage users to use the schooltool we will release this summer | 17:10 |
| ignas | not making it difficult, but not giving too much hopes either | 17:10 |
| th1a | Yes. And getting these packaging issues more or less cleared up in the Gutsy process so Gutsy+1 won't be a disaster. | 17:11 |
| ignas | so what are the packaging issues | 17:11 |
| th1a | Well, jinty has created a ton of packages for our dependencies, so that is/was one. | 17:12 |
| ignas | one of them is - how to make schooltool and cando install in parallel easily | 17:12 |
| ignas | or at least how to switch among them | 17:12 |
| th1a | Frankly, we can punt that if necessary. CanDo's schedule pretty much requires them to distribute CanDo internally as a big lump. | 17:13 |
| th1a | We can decide if we're going to do that correctly in Gutsy or Gutsy+1. | 17:13 |
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| th1a | I don't have strong feelings either way. | 17:13 |
| ignas | it depends on how many other problems there are | 17:14 |
| th1a | That's what we're trying to determine ;-) | 17:14 |
| ignas | will we have gradebook ready for july? | 17:14 |
| th1a | Will you? jfroche? | 17:15 |
| jfroche | it will depend what will be the reaction to the last developpement at the school | 17:15 |
| jfroche | but it just can be better than what they have now | 17:16 |
| th1a | I would be ok with putting it in and labeling it as "Gradebook - beta" in the release. | 17:16 |
| ignas | people don't read release notes... | 17:16 |
| th1a | Since we're in Web 2.0, that sort of thing is socially acceptable. | 17:16 |
| th1a | No, I mean, in the code. | 17:16 |
| th1a | The links themselves. | 17:16 |
| pcardune_ | ignas: in the user interface | 17:16 |
| ignas | ouch | 17:16 |
| pcardune_ | that would be awesome... it sounds so new age to have "beta" in the interface | 17:16 |
| eldar | lol | 17:17 |
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| th1a | Half the web applications people use say "beta." | 17:17 |
| pcardune_ | so true | 17:17 |
| pcardune_ | hi jelkner | 17:17 |
| th1a | hi jelkner. | 17:17 |
| Cripps | if it's "beta" people will be more apt to use it because they like the sound of being on the "cutting edge" | 17:17 |
| pcardune_ | exactly | 17:17 |
| th1a | Right! | 17:17 |
| jelkner | good morning! | 17:17 |
| th1a | ignas would probably prefer "alpha." | 17:18 |
| Cripps | sounds *too* new ;) | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | lol | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | you guys are having too much fun with this now... | 17:18 |
| ignas | th1a: i would prefer rather not releasing a gradebook, than not knowing how to answer the "Does schooltool do gradebook?" question | 17:18 |
| th1a | Anyhow... I guess another question is whether this release will use the drop down menus, which I think it should. | 17:18 |
| ignas | it will | 17:18 |
| ignas | it's in trunk | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | it's been in trunk since resource management landed | 17:19 |
| th1a | Oh, it is just not in the Lyceum branch? | 17:19 |
| ignas | no | 17:19 |
| Lumiere | it is in the lyceum branch because it is in trunk | 17:19 |
| Lumiere | and ignas merged trunk into lyceum | 17:19 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:19 |
| Lumiere | (I read too much of the commits list) | 17:20 |
| th1a | I missed that. | 17:20 |
| th1a | I thought ignas was holding out. | 17:20 |
| th1a | The other big thing I've thought about for EP is making sure jfroche and pcardune get up to speed on the schoolyear transition, since that's complex. | 17:20 |
| Lumiere | from a cando perspective I would definately like to see that | 17:21 |
| th1a | It is rather essential. | 17:21 |
| ignas | th1a: depends on how complete the code will be | 17:21 |
| ignas | and as i have that task more or less spanning whole quarter ... | 17:21 |
| th1a | Well, whatever we've got. I realize it won't be done. | 17:21 |
| th1a | At least explaining the strategy. | 17:22 |
| ignas | and i will have to work out on some rough edges before release | 17:22 |
| pcardune_ | for the entire school year, it might be nice to have a namespace (localhost/++schoolyear++1995/any/url/in/schooltool) | 17:22 |
| *** pcardune has quit IRC | 17:22 | |
| Lumiere | I just know that that cando will need schoolyear backup sooner rather then later | 17:22 |
| th1a | Indeed. | 17:23 |
| Lumiere | for now we're looking at making an export function to create an xml output to save a section of a course | 17:23 |
| ignas | a good idea | 17:24 |
| th1a | So... what do we need to think about in more detail to prepare for EuroPython? | 17:24 |
| ignas | one of the cheap way out alternatives is exporting data you need | 17:24 |
| ignas | and importing it into a new instance of schooltool | 17:24 |
| ignas | th1a: only jinty actually knows what is blocking him from the packaging side | 17:24 |
| ignas | as for the schooltool polishing | 17:24 |
| ignas | i have a long list of debts :/ | 17:25 |
| jinty | ignas: zope.optionstorage and pcardune's javascript | 17:25 |
| th1a | hi jinty. | 17:25 |
| pcardune_ | I can handle pcardune's javascript this week | 17:25 |
| th1a | Yes, is there anything else we need to do for you? | 17:26 |
| ignas | one of the debts is the timetabling transition to events, i need functional tests that would test term deletion, school timetable deletion | 17:26 |
| ignas | new views that would allow booking of resources for timetable activities | 17:26 |
| ignas | with tests are important | 17:26 |
| ignas | for a solid release | 17:26 |
| ignas | i18n is flaky in some places | 17:26 |
| Lumiere | ignas: if you can produce a list of things you want tested I can try and write a ftest for it | 17:26 |
| ignas | as in it's not 100% complete | 17:27 |
| th1a | OK, how about this then: | 17:27 |
| Lumiere | it won't be perfect but maybe it will give you a chance to finish some other stuff | 17:27 |
| Lumiere | pcardune_: LP 111864 just got marked needs info by whaddon | 17:27 |
| jinty | other than that, most eggs are not including the ZPL text and so will probably be rejected from ubuntu/debian, need to make new versions of all of those. | 17:28 |
| th1a | Anything blocking packaging, identified by jinty, gets first priority. | 17:28 |
| th1a | Second, I'll take a look at trunk and identify what I'd like to see cut and cleaned up. I'll keep it minimal. | 17:29 |
| th1a | Third, whatever is on ignas's list. | 17:29 |
| Lumiere | jinty: any chance I could get a buildbot setup for cando too? | 17:29 |
| th1a | Plus discussing yearend transitions at some point. | 17:29 |
| jinty | Lumiere, sure, you got a buildslave for me? | 17:29 |
| Lumiere | maybe :) | 17:30 |
| Lumiere | can the slave be behind a firewall? | 17:30 |
| Lumiere | I have an ubuntu-dapper server that is under-utilizied | 17:31 |
| Lumiere | brb | 17:31 |
| * jinty doesn't have very much buidbot-fu, but I think the slave connects to the master | 17:31 | |
| jinty | so behind a firewall is probably fine | 17:31 |
| th1a | ignas: Does that sound acceptable? | 17:32 |
| Lumiere | cool | 17:32 |
| Lumiere | I'll see what I can do from work | 17:32 |
| jinty | Lumiere, send me a mail about it | 17:32 |
| ignas | sound good enough, i'll try to come up with a "someone else readable" list of improvements | 17:32 |
| Lumiere | ok | 17:32 |
| th1a | ignas: OK. | 17:32 |
| th1a | All right. Have a good week folks! | 17:33 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:33 | |
| * Lumiere screams in agony when it lands on his foot | 17:33 | |
| pcardune_ | Lumiere: are we having a cando meeting today or tomorrow? | 17:35 |
| Lumiere | SchoolTool development | IRC logs at http://source.schooltool.org/irclogs/ | Dev meetings Mon, 13:30 UTC (15:30 EET) | Use http://paste.lisp.org/new/schooltool for pasting | CanDo dev meeting Tuesday 1600 UTC/Noon Eastern (Last week before we move to Monday 10:30 Eastern) | 17:36 |
| Lumiere | but had I know that jelkner, you, and eldar were going to be here | 17:36 |
| Lumiere | I'd have dragged welsh on | 17:37 |
| Lumiere | but I gotta go now | 17:37 |
| Lumiere | to have a chance at getting to work before 11:30 | 17:37 |
| Lumiere | *detach* | 17:37 |
| pcardune_ | ok | 17:37 |
| eldar | ignas, in the new Batch, is `formatter` a new type of object that i have to define and can look at guidelines for, or is it just some sort of a modified list/dictionary? | 17:54 |
| ignas | eldar: not sure which formatter you are talking about | 17:55 |
| ignas | can you give the file ant the line in question | 17:55 |
| eldar | in table.batch | 17:56 |
| eldar | batch.py, line 38 | 17:56 |
| ignas | you should use IterableBatch | 17:56 |
| ignas | formatter is the table formatter, when batching is used with a TableFormatter table | 17:56 |
| eldar | alright, in IterableBatch, the items argument is supposed to be a dict? | 18:01 |
| *** gpaci has joined #schooltool | 18:04 | |
| eldar | ignas: what type of datastructure is `items` supposed to be in IterableBatch? | 18:07 |
| ignas | list or iterable iirc | 18:07 |
| ignas | the same as was for the old Batch thingie | 18:07 |
| eldar | hmmm, any reason why this is happening then? | 18:07 |
| eldar | File "/home/eldar/cando/SchoolTool/src/schooltool/table/batch.py", line 128, in key | 18:07 |
| eldar | return getattr(obj, sort_by) | 18:07 |
| eldar | TypeError: getattr(): attribute name must be string | 18:07 |
| ignas | hmm, what are you passing to it as a sort_by? | 18:08 |
| eldar | None | 18:08 |
| ignas | oh | 18:08 |
| ignas | then it's a bug | 18:08 |
| ignas | add a check for None in the sort_by | 18:08 |
| eldar | alright | 18:08 |
| ignas | it was 'title' by default, but now it's none | 18:08 |
| *** gpaci has quit IRC | 18:26 | |
| pcardune_ | eldar: you should use if sort_by is not None | 18:30 |
| eldar | ooops lol, reversed it in a hurry | 18:31 |
| eldar | wait, why not not None? | 18:31 |
| pcardune_ | or, if sort_by is None | 18:31 |
| pcardune_ | just be explicit about what sort_by is | 18:31 |
| eldar | oh ok | 18:32 |
| pcardune_ | otherwise you don't know that sort_by will necessarily evaluate to True or False | 18:32 |
| pcardune_ | if it is None, it will evaluate to False, but that is not the *only* case where it will evaluate to False | 18:32 |
| eldar | how do you reload the file in emacs if it was changed on the disk? | 18:32 |
| eldar | without you know, closing and opening again | 18:33 |
| eldar | o.O i'm getting traversal errors now | 18:35 |
| jelkner | pcardune, eldar: i'm on the phone with dwelsh now | 18:48 |
| jelkner | he wants to meet now | 18:48 |
| jelkner | with the following agenda: | 18:48 |
| jelkner | plan for summer sprints | 18:48 |
| jelkner | what gets done when? | 18:48 |
| jelkner | can we meet now? | 18:48 |
| eldar | yeah | 18:50 |
| jelkner | eldar: good | 18:51 |
| jelkner | dwelsh is walking in the door at ACC and will join us presently | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | what's up with schooltool's buildbot? | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | "error: Installed distribution zope.app.catalog 3.4dev-r74795 conflicts with requirement zope.app.catalog>=3.4.0a2" | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | last successful build was 12 days ago | 18:52 |
| jelkner | eldar: have you had a chance to look at all the specs on launchpad? | 18:52 |
| eldar | jelkner, no not yet, i've been working on fixing cando trunk since the last schooltool commits | 18:53 |
| jelkner | ok | 18:53 |
| jelkner | i told welsh you and paul were focusing on getting the thing to build | 18:53 |
| jelkner | and while it is essential to do that, it is equally important that we have a plan | 18:54 |
| jelkner | for the summer work | 18:54 |
| eldar | yeah, it is now more than just slugs, it is a bunch of changes in random places that our code needs to update to | 18:54 |
| eldar | yeah sure, we can plan | 18:54 |
| jelkner | dave feels it will take a few days and more than one meeting to do that | 18:54 |
| jelkner | so he wants to start now | 18:55 |
| eldar | alright, pcardune_ are you there? | 18:55 |
| pcardune_ | yes | 18:55 |
| jelkner | i assume he'll be on in any minute | 18:55 |
| pcardune_ | I'm just now reading what you have been saying | 18:55 |
| pcardune_ | did you ping me earlier? | 18:55 |
| *** dwelsh has joined #schooltool | 18:55 | |
| dwelsh | Welsh here | 18:55 |
| *** pcardune_ is now known as pcardune | 18:55 | |
| eldar | he pinged you without the underscore, so you didn't get it | 18:55 |
| pcardune | oh | 18:55 |
| dwelsh | welcome back, paul | 18:56 |
| jelkner | dwelsh: i asked eldar if he was familiar with the launchpad blueprints, and he told me he is not | 18:56 |
| eldar | not all of them | 18:56 |
| jelkner | pcardune has been having him work on on other things | 18:56 |
| jelkner | so lets start to draw up a plan | 18:57 |
| Lumiere | here | 18:57 |
| dwelsh | we need a framework that covers all three multi-day sprints | 18:57 |
| dwelsh | and factors in developer learning curves | 18:57 |
| jelkner | to produce realistic goals for each one | 18:57 |
| dwelsh | using the CanDo07 blueprints that are posted | 18:57 |
| jelkner | dwelsh: what is the highest priority? | 18:58 |
| pcardune | Do we all agree that new features and not bugs will be the main focus of these sprints? | 18:58 |
| dwelsh | look at Launchpad... everything is ranked according to priority | 18:58 |
| * jelkner goes to look at launchpad | 18:59 | |
| dwelsh | its starts with essential, then goes high, med and low | 18:59 |
| pcardune | skill drivers | 18:59 |
| eldar | bugs are not listed in blueprints, which is why pcardune is posing the question | 18:59 |
| pcardune | import/export | 18:59 |
| dwelsh | 2 essential, 3 high, 5 med, 2 low | 18:59 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: blocking bugs in 07 are a focus of the sprints too | 18:59 |
| dwelsh | and skill driver | 18:59 |
| pcardune | journal update notification | 18:59 |
| pcardune | quarterly grades | 18:59 |
| pcardune | evidence | 18:59 |
| dwelsh | then student evidence | 19:00 |
| dwelsh | that's 5, let's start there | 19:00 |
| dwelsh | ZIS-SIF is underway | 19:00 |
| dwelsh | that's basically import-export | 19:00 |
| pcardune | ah, ok great | 19:00 |
| Lumiere | bugs that don't block development should be left off sprints unless we need it for the development at the sprint | 19:00 |
| dwelsh | the demo is scheduled for tomorrow, 10am | 19:00 |
| dwelsh | once we understand the demo, we need to move forward handling the specific SIF msgs. needed | 19:01 |
| * pcardune updates status | 19:01 | |
| jelkner | i think a plan for the whole summer is fine | 19:01 |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 19:01 | |
| jelkner | but what we *really* need now is a plan for the upcoming sprint | 19:01 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: that's the point... | 19:02 |
| Lumiere | but the second sprint | 19:02 |
| Lumiere | comes right after the first | 19:02 |
| dwelsh | Paul, how much more on Skill-Driver, and can anyone help you with it? | 19:02 |
| Lumiere | so we need both for sure | 19:02 |
| jelkner | true | 19:02 |
| jelkner | and there are different players involved | 19:02 |
| pcardune | dwelsh: skill drivers are ready for testing by you and other teachers | 19:02 |
| jelkner | so we need to think about that | 19:02 |
| dwelsh | it's just like the French Open and Wimbledon | 19:02 |
| dwelsh | they're virtually back-to-back:) | 19:02 |
| pcardune | I imagine there will be some UI requests | 19:02 |
| jelkner | i'm on launchpad and i see all the blueprints | 19:03 |
| Lumiere | I am thinking that the ACC sprint should be Import / Export | 19:03 |
| pcardune | can I assign Will Dickerson to import/export | 19:03 |
| jelkner | so: what gets done during those 4 days at ACC? | 19:03 |
| jelkner | and by whom? | 19:03 |
| jelkner | no | 19:03 |
| pcardune | I agree with Lumiere | 19:03 |
| jelkner | will dickerson will not be available during the summer | 19:04 |
| jelkner | chris carey is taking over for him | 19:04 |
| pcardune | oh right, slipped my mind | 19:04 |
| jelkner | both of them say they are ready for the transition | 19:04 |
| Lumiere | it's the first step toward almost everything else | 19:04 |
| pcardune | I think Import/Export for the ACC sprint is a perfect thing to work on | 19:04 |
| jelkner | and both will be at the demo tomorrow | 19:04 |
| pcardune | I'll be there as well | 19:04 |
| dwelsh | Welsh will be there | 19:04 |
| eldar | what demo? | 19:04 |
| jelkner | (though i won't, so i'll be looking for you all to make sure you ask the right questions) | 19:05 |
| Lumiere | eldar: SIF message passing | 19:05 |
| eldar | where is it? | 19:05 |
| dwelsh | Eldar: a demo of current ZIS-SIF functionality using 2 CanDo instances | 19:05 |
| Lumiere | here in #schooltool tomorrow at 10 am | 19:05 |
| jelkner | #schooltool, yes? | 19:05 |
| eldar | ok cool | 19:05 |
| pcardune | eldar: I'm sending you a google calendar invite | 19:05 |
| pcardune | I'll also send one to Chris Carey and ... who else? | 19:06 |
| jelkner | ok, back to the questions at hand: | 19:06 |
| jelkner | mary linnell and thomas doggett | 19:06 |
| eldar | haven't seen work from either one of them | 19:07 |
| jelkner | and you won't for a while | 19:07 |
| jelkner | they are doing work for will | 19:07 |
| dwelsh | How many hrs. a week are Paul and Eldar working this summer? | 19:07 |
| jelkner | who checks in everything himself | 19:07 |
| pcardune | dwelsh: 40 | 19:07 |
| dwelsh | eldar? | 19:07 |
| eldar | at least 40 | 19:07 |
| dwelsh | shouldn't we start with you two??? | 19:07 |
| dwelsh | the sprints will serve your ongoing efforts? | 19:08 |
| dwelsh | right? | 19:08 |
| *** kinder has quit IRC | 19:08 | |
| eldar | yes | 19:08 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh: the point here is to order the ongoing efforts as well | 19:08 |
| jelkner | absolutely | 19:08 |
| dwelsh | then in what order will you two be working on stuff | 19:08 |
| dwelsh | ??? | 19:08 |
| Lumiere | import / export is going to be the first step | 19:08 |
| pcardune | well, since import/export is top priority, we should work on that | 19:08 |
| dwelsh | and isn't skill driver underway? | 19:08 |
| pcardune | skill driver is in finishing touches stage | 19:09 |
| pcardune | and shouldn't be handled during the sprint | 19:09 |
| dwelsh | so that one is ready for teacher testing | 19:09 |
| pcardune | yes | 19:09 |
| dwelsh | I can take that on, using my teacher test group, as well as myself | 19:09 |
| eldar | according to the map, i'm working on journal-update-notification | 19:09 |
| dwelsh | how about the next 3... journal update notice, quarterly grading and student evidence? | 19:09 |
| jelkner | question: what would be most important to have eldar work on during NH? | 19:10 |
| dwelsh | how are you two dividing those up? | 19:10 |
| jelkner | he will have s richter to help him | 19:10 |
| Lumiere | I think quarterly grading is best done outside a sprint | 19:10 |
| jelkner | and we want to make most effective use of that fact | 19:10 |
| pcardune | i'm underway with student evidence | 19:10 |
| Lumiere | it should be similar enough to skill drivers that it isn't major new code | 19:10 |
| pcardune | I think that would be another good sprint focus | 19:10 |
| pcardune | Do we have a list of attendees for the sprint? | 19:11 |
| jelkner | pcardune: let's put that off until later | 19:12 |
| pcardune | ok | 19:12 |
| jelkner | i want the goals to drive who i encourage to go | 19:12 |
| pcardune | I just was wondering if we were paying big time folks to be there (in which case they drive the goals) | 19:13 |
| jelkner | i'm going to only ask folks who can really contribute | 19:13 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: I am assuming somewhat that you're taking the interns to the side | 19:13 |
| jelkner | yes | 19:13 |
| Lumiere | and that I am going to have the developers moving forward | 19:13 |
| jelkner | except for those you want | 19:13 |
| pcardune | summary of goals: import/export + student evidence | 19:13 |
| jelkner | what do we want to use srichter's time for? | 19:13 |
| eldar | well, blueprints say i'm working on journal queueing, so i'll be working on that, i haven't started yet | 19:14 |
| pcardune | possibly journal-update-notification | 19:14 |
| Lumiere | I think import/export is a good first sprint, I think journal-update-notification and threading is a good NH sprint | 19:14 |
| pcardune | which if we had srichters help could be a *very* nice feature | 19:15 |
| Lumiere | and eldar will learn tons from it | 19:15 |
| pcardune | srichter is not coming to the ACC sprint correct? | 19:15 |
| Lumiere | right | 19:15 |
| jelkner | no | 19:15 |
| jelkner | only NH | 19:15 |
| pcardune | ok, then journal update notificaiton is for NH | 19:16 |
| eldar | yeah, journal-update-notification with srichter sounds fun | 19:16 |
| jelkner | great | 19:16 |
| jelkner | where does that leave ACC? | 19:16 |
| Lumiere | I think import and export may take 4 days | 19:16 |
| Lumiere | it's big | 19:16 |
| pcardune | I agree | 19:16 |
| jelkner | and *very* important | 19:16 |
| pcardune | and any time we have left we can spend on student evidence | 19:16 |
| jelkner | so that means if we focus on that during ACC | 19:16 |
| jelkner | pcardune and eldar will need to work with ccarey and company on it | 19:17 |
| pcardune | yes, they should be at the sprint | 19:17 |
| Lumiere | there are 2 very separate pieces on import export | 19:17 |
| eldar | just a reminder, i will the first 2 days of ACC sprint | 19:17 |
| eldar | be missing* | 19:17 |
| Lumiere | there's the SIF stuff | 19:18 |
| Lumiere | and then there's the xml outputs | 19:18 |
| Lumiere | which I need to keep writing the schema for | 19:19 |
| pcardune | yes | 19:19 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: I should probably sit down with you at some point in gobby and look it over | 19:19 |
| pcardune | i agree, let's set up a time to do that before the sprint | 19:20 |
| Lumiere | the FOSSED - DC sprint is going to be a release sprint | 19:20 |
| dwelsh | which sprint is ignas at??? | 19:20 |
| dwelsh | which sprint is ignas at? | 19:20 |
| Lumiere | I really expect us to be feature-complete for FOSSED DC | 19:20 |
| pcardune | +1 | 19:21 |
| dwelsh | richter is in NH? | 19:21 |
| dwelsh | ignas is at FOSSED-DC? | 19:21 |
| dwelsh | hoffman is at none? | 19:21 |
| Lumiere | th1a: here? :) | 19:21 |
| pcardune | I'm going to create a wiki page for this stuff | 19:23 |
| Lumiere | k | 19:23 |
| th1a | I am at DC. | 19:24 |
| jelkner | ok, i just got off the phone with ccarey | 19:24 |
| jelkner | he is going to call his folks and get on here in the next 15 minutes | 19:24 |
| jelkner | here is what i told him: | 19:24 |
| jelkner | 1. we want you at the sprint | 19:25 |
| jelkner | 2. we want you to stay and share a room with pcardune | 19:25 |
| jelkner | (since your project is the main goal) | 19:25 |
| jelkner | and we want you at the meeting tomorrow | 19:25 |
| jelkner | (he knew about that) | 19:25 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: doctest-quiz IS NOT a medium priority goal of cando | 19:25 |
| jelkner | Lumiere: yes it is | 19:26 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: no, it is not and dwelsh doesn't think it is either | 19:26 |
| eldar | lol | 19:26 |
| eldar | here it comes | 19:26 |
| Lumiere | don't get started it won't be happening | 19:26 |
| * pcardune slowly backs out of the room | 19:27 | |
| jelkner | dwelsh and i hammered this out | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | it can be a blueprint, but it isn't at the same level of priority as anything else in medium | 19:27 |
| jelkner | and he agreed it is not high, but it is medium | 19:27 |
| *** cpcarey has joined #schooltool | 19:27 | |
| * th1a dives for cover. | 19:27 | |
| * Lumiere didn't lower it to low | 19:27 | |
| jelkner | cpcarey: hi chris! | 19:27 |
| cpcarey | i will be at the sprint | 19:27 |
| jelkner | what's the word? | 19:27 |
| jelkner | cool! | 19:27 |
| jelkner | folks, do you have anything else for chris while we have him here? | 19:28 |
| * eldar hands chris an e-cookie | 19:28 | |
| eldar | nope, nothing | 19:28 |
| pcardune | how much have you looked at what we are discussing tomorrow cpcarey? | 19:28 |
| cpcarey | i've haven't taken a good look at it yet | 19:29 |
| dwelsh | welsh is making a spreadsheet | 19:29 |
| cpcarey | i was planning on doing that later today | 19:29 |
| dwelsh | proposal for carduner-eldar division of labor: | 19:29 |
| *** thisfred has quit IRC | 19:29 | |
| cpcarey | school just got out for us today | 19:29 |
| dwelsh | carduner: skill-driver, quarterly grading, import-export (including VA SOL inclusion) | 19:29 |
| dwelsh | eldar: journal notification, student evidence, upload curric docs | 19:30 |
| dwelsh | I see these as related groups | 19:30 |
| pcardune | cpcarey: ok, it would be good to have some knowledge before the meeting. that is all I have for you... | 19:30 |
| jelkner | yes, and doc-test quiz falls on eldar | 19:30 |
| jelkner | since it fits in the student evidence project | 19:30 |
| dwelsh | doc test quiz, while important to elkner, is important to NO ONE ELSE | 19:30 |
| jelkner | wrong | 19:30 |
| dwelsh | it is a distraction from the bigger cando picture | 19:31 |
| Lumiere | not until everything else is satisfied or you put up your own money for it | 19:31 |
| jelkner | it will be important to many other teachers | 19:31 |
| pcardune | this is not the time for this discussion | 19:31 |
| dwelsh | correct | 19:31 |
| pcardune | both me and eldar will work on student evidence | 19:31 |
| Lumiere | +1 to pcardune | 19:31 |
| cpcarey | pcardune: the information about tomorrow's meeting can be found on the schooltool trac, correct? | 19:31 |
| pcardune | I have thought about it a fair amount already | 19:32 |
| dwelsh | great, I've noted that | 19:32 |
| pcardune | cpcarey: I don't think there really is any information other than the time and place | 19:32 |
| pcardune | cpcarey: so, no | 19:32 |
| pcardune | cpcarey: but i did send you a google calendar invite | 19:32 |
| dwelsh | as for ie compatibility, printable forms and speed-data entry... | 19:32 |
| Lumiere | cpcarey: this is going to be an introduction to most of us in it | 19:32 |
| dwelsh | they could go to either of you | 19:32 |
| pcardune | dwelsh: is that a google doc spreadsheet you could share with me + eldar? | 19:33 |
| dwelsh | all three are important to CanDo users | 19:33 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh: is which a spreadsheet? | 19:33 |
| pcardune | dwelsh: some of those things are going to interns | 19:33 |
| dwelsh | yes, I think they would be good intern issues | 19:33 |
| cpcarey | pcardune: is there any specific information i should go over for tomorrow's meeting? | 19:33 |
| pcardune | cpcarey: checkout the code for it... find it on launchpad or ask will dickerson | 19:34 |
| Lumiere | err pcardune is what a spreadsheet? | 19:34 |
| cpcarey | pcardune: sounds good | 19:34 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: the one dwelsh is writing | 19:34 |
| Lumiere | on what though? | 19:34 |
| pcardune | cpcarey: when you get those links, you could add said info to the wiki | 19:35 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: spec assignments | 19:35 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: it could/should be put in LP too | 19:35 |
| Lumiere | it's on the wiki and LP | 19:35 |
| Lumiere | look at the spec docs in wiki | 19:35 |
| cpcarey | i have to leave for lunch, anything else? | 19:36 |
| Lumiere | cpcarey: not that I see | 19:36 |
| pcardune | cpcarey: talk to you tomorrow | 19:36 |
| eldar | cya | 19:36 |
| cpcarey | goodbye | 19:37 |
| *** cpcarey has quit IRC | 19:37 | |
| pcardune | ok, I think we are done here? | 19:38 |
| Lumiere | give me a sec | 19:38 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: you want to work on updating the wiki with this info? | 19:38 |
| Lumiere | I can, yes | 19:38 |
| eldar | alright, i'm gonna head back to making the trunk work | 19:39 |
| Lumiere | eldar: ok | 19:39 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: this afternoon for working on xml? | 19:39 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: nope | 19:40 |
| pcardune | how about wednesday? | 19:40 |
| Lumiere | wednesday I am out in Herndon with the LearniT team | 19:40 |
| Lumiere | tuesday? | 19:40 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: dwelsh also mentioned va-sol's being part of import export? I see it as a separate spec in LP with "low" priority, should it be moved up? | 19:40 |
| Lumiere | (and I am gone thursday -> monday) | 19:40 |
| pcardune | ok, it will have to be tuesday then | 19:41 |
| Lumiere | va-sol's should be destroyed again | 19:41 |
| Lumiere | it is part of import/export imo | 19:41 |
| Lumiere | he sees a separate userstory | 19:41 |
| Lumiere | I see it as a sub userstory of the i/e blueprint | 19:41 |
| pcardune | we may want several import/export blue prints | 19:42 |
| pcardune | because xml stuff is very different from SIF stuff | 19:42 |
| pcardune | and both are very different from va-sols | 19:42 |
| pcardune | in terms of implementation | 19:42 |
| Lumiere | in the end I want va-sols to be in the xml format | 19:42 |
| pcardune | I think those should be 3 specs all with highest priority | 19:42 |
| Lumiere | ok | 19:42 |
| Lumiere | if that's how you see it lets do that | 19:42 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: ok, but we don't have them in said XML format right now... the same issue with VERSO | 19:43 |
| pcardune | ok, good | 19:43 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: once we get the xml format | 19:43 |
| Lumiere | we may be able to get them to export to it | 19:43 |
| pcardune | yes, but this will be another issue altogether | 19:43 |
| Lumiere | the end goal is for the userstories/blueprints to be what the devlopers need to continue working | 19:43 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: does the SIF presentation meeting show up in your google calendar at 10am? | 19:44 |
| Lumiere | sec | 19:44 |
| Lumiere | 1pm | 19:45 |
| Lumiere | fixed | 19:45 |
| pcardune | thanks, my timezone issues | 19:46 |
| pcardune | I'm going to put in a feature request to google folks for better multi-timezone support | 19:46 |
| Lumiere | yea | 19:47 |
| Lumiere | it's important | 19:47 |
| Lumiere | lol eldar | 19:47 |
| Lumiere | you just found the schooltool blame list | 19:47 |
| eldar | hmm? | 19:48 |
| eldar | Lumiere, do you know if I can insert a line into a file from shell? | 19:49 |
| eldar | like in the middle of the file | 19:49 |
| pcardune | eldar: if not then write a python script to do it, and call the python script from the makefile | 19:52 |
| eldar | hmmm, i can do crazy echo and cat stuff | 19:53 |
| eldar | which looks like this | 19:53 |
| eldar | cat site.zcml | grep -v "</configure>" >> site.zcml | 19:54 |
| eldar | echo '<include package="cando" />end of the line</configure>' | 19:54 |
| eldar | >> site.zcml | 19:54 |
| eldar | but is that a good idea? | 19:54 |
| Lumiere | hmm | 19:55 |
| eldar | to put it in a Makefile | 19:55 |
| eldar | i mean it works | 19:55 |
| eldar | it's just ugly | 19:55 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: so what time do you want to meet tomorrow? | 19:55 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: right after sif? | 19:55 |
| pcardune | ok | 19:55 |
| Lumiere | just a note to everyone, the SIF meeting has been moved to 10 am | 19:56 |
| Lumiere | please reply if you're coming | 19:56 |
| jelkner | th1a: are you still coming to dc? | 19:56 |
| pcardune | I accidentally put it for 10am PST (woops) | 19:57 |
| Lumiere | np | 19:57 |
| jelkner | and bringing ignas and jean franciois? | 19:57 |
| th1a | We need to get ignas to book his flight. | 20:00 |
| *** Newfie2007_ has joined #schooltool | 20:02 | |
| Lumiere | hi Newfie2007_ | 20:03 |
| Newfie2007_ | Lumiere: hey | 20:04 |
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| Lumiere | food bbiab | 20:10 |
| *** Newfie2007 has quit IRC | 20:15 | |
| eldar | jfroche, jinty: do either one of you have a suggestion for a clean way for us to include cando as an egg? | 20:33 |
| jinty | include cando into what? | 20:33 |
| eldar | schooltool | 20:33 |
| eldar | after the reddux can't packages aren't put in package-includes | 20:33 |
| eldar | so i'm guessing we have to use eggs now | 20:33 |
| jinty | yep | 20:34 |
| eldar | how should we go about doing that? | 20:34 |
| jinty | hmm, you could probably look at the buildout ignas built | 20:35 |
| jinty | perhaps the cleanest way might be to write your own site.zcml file | 20:35 |
| jinty | and reference that from you config file | 20:36 |
| eldar | and insert an include of that into schooltool's site.czml? | 20:36 |
| jinty | no, have that include schooltool's site.zcml | 20:36 |
| jinty | you shouldn't need to modify any schooltool code | 20:36 |
| eldar | no i mean | 20:36 |
| eldar | in the make | 20:36 |
| eldar | when building, make the make do the insert | 20:37 |
| eldar | or | 20:37 |
| eldar | just include the schooltool's site.zcml in cando's | 20:37 |
| eldar | and make cando's site zcml | 20:37 |
| eldar | the site zcml in config file? | 20:37 |
| jinty | yeah, that sounds better | 20:37 |
| eldar | schooltool.conf.in has a directive for that | 20:37 |
| jinty | yep, it should, and you just found the use case | 20:38 |
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| jinty | eldar: we're still digesting eggs, so things are probably difficult right now | 20:40 |
| jinty | but hopefully we'll develop ways of working that will make things easier | 20:40 |
| pcardune | jinty: we need a good and general way to "add an addon package to schooltool" | 20:43 |
| jinty | yeah, we actually need a few good ways | 20:43 |
| pcardune | if the add-on package is available via an egg, the egg should be installed | 20:43 |
| pcardune | if the add-on package is available via source files, | 20:43 |
| * jinty likes the way apache2 deos it in debian | 20:44 | |
| pcardune | then ??? - we are thinking droping somepackage-configure.zcml into schooltool-skel/etc/package-includes/ | 20:44 |
| * pcardune also likes the way apache2 does it | 20:44 | |
| jinty | ignas also does | 20:44 |
| jinty | so that's probably what we're going to do when someone does it | 20:45 |
| jinty | or figures out how | 20:45 |
| jinty | otherwise there are entry points | 20:45 |
| jinty | which I havn't investigated yet | 20:45 |
| pcardune | ok | 20:45 |
| pcardune | well we'll try it with the package-includes way | 20:46 |
| pcardune | drop in a cando-configure.zcml | 20:46 |
| pcardune | and have cando-configure.zcml include site.zcml | 20:46 |
| jinty | but for now, we should resist the temptation to build these things into the eggs themselves | 20:46 |
| pcardune | does that sound right? | 20:46 |
| jinty | I think that you want a cando working directory separate from your source | 20:47 |
| jinty | that directory could have svn:externals to bring in the source | 20:47 |
| jinty | and should have it's own site.zcml that includes whatever you need for a basic cando install | 20:47 |
| eldar | yeah, as of now, we're trying to drop cando-configure.zcml into package-includes | 20:48 |
| eldar | that includes cando | 20:48 |
| eldar | cando's configure.zcml include's cando's site.zcml | 20:48 |
| eldar | which in turn includes all cando modules | 20:48 |
| jinty | site.zcml is higher level than configure.zcml | 20:49 |
| jinty | so probably the site.zcml should include the configure.zcml and not the other way around | 20:49 |
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| *** Newfie2007_ is now known as Newfie2007 | 20:50 | |
| pcardune | jinty: we are currently using svn:externals to do just what you suggest, the issue is, do we wrap schooltool inside of cando (seems kind of awkward since cando is an add-on to schooltool and not the other way around) or do add cando to schooltool as if it were just another add on (seemingly more complicated) | 20:51 |
| pcardune | but maybe this is not an issue for a trunk checkout | 20:52 |
| jinty | cando and schooltool are both eggs, they are logically at the same level, you need to go to a meta level | 20:52 |
| jinty | have a higher level zcml file that includes both of them | 20:52 |
| * jinty realizes he's speaking in riddles;) | 20:53 | |
| * pcardune attempts to interpret said riddles | 20:53 | |
| pcardune | jinty: but then what about actually running the schooltool server? | 20:53 |
| pcardune | do we drop in our own schooltool.conf to use the meta zcml? | 20:54 |
| jinty | why don't you just copy the schooltool-server script from schooltool's svn | 20:54 |
| jinty | ? | 20:54 |
| eldar | that's a bit much? | 20:54 |
| jinty | it's onlt a few lines long anyway | 20:54 |
| jinty | yeah, as I said, we need to find ways of not having this kind of duplication | 20:55 |
| jinty | but not building this stuff into the eggs | 20:55 |
| eldar | alright, so we're going with dropping a single configure into package-includes for now | 20:55 |
| pcardune | then make the copy use our own schooltool.conf | 20:55 |
| pcardune | or cando.conf rather | 20:55 |
| eldar | conf? | 20:55 |
| eldar | why conf | 20:55 |
| eldar | we only need to include packages | 20:56 |
| * jinty thinks site.zcml files shouldn't live inside eggs at all | 20:56 | |
| eldar | alright | 20:56 |
| eldar | for your comfort | 20:56 |
| eldar | we'll name it | 20:56 |
| eldar | includes.zcml | 20:56 |
| eldar | and have cando's configure | 20:56 |
| eldar | alright actually | 20:56 |
| eldar | forget it | 20:56 |
| pcardune | lol | 20:56 |
| eldar | no site.zcml | 20:56 |
| eldar | just have | 20:56 |
| eldar | cando's configure.czml | 20:56 |
| eldar | zcml* | 20:56 |
| Lumiere | having fun? | 20:56 |
| eldar | include all the packages | 20:56 |
| eldar | from cando | 20:56 |
| eldar | and no extraneous operations needed | 20:57 |
| pcardune | and drop cando-configure.zcml into site-packages? | 20:57 |
| Lumiere | pcardune / eldar: dwelsh desperately wants the 4 bugs in launchpad on 2006 journaling fixed | 20:57 |
| eldar | yup | 20:57 |
| Lumiere | and for jinty to be able to push a new package | 20:57 |
| eldar | 2006 journaling? i thought you guys are done with the year | 20:57 |
| Lumiere | he wants that one last 2006 release | 20:57 |
| Lumiere | yea I want to be but he seems to want a package (i'll check again) | 20:58 |
| * pcardune just discovered his dad's itunes account password :) | 20:58 | |
| Lumiere | I am looking at his docs from the meeting today | 20:58 |
| eldar | LOL | 20:58 |
| Lumiere | 'journal bug fixes' is in his list for eldar | 20:58 |
| eldar | that's why kde wallet is a great idea | 20:58 |
| eldar | oh jeez | 20:59 |
| Lumiere | I am also about to go through LP | 20:59 |
| eldar | elkner says one thing, dave says another | 20:59 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: ok, i'll do the journal fixes in cando2006 | 20:59 |
| Lumiere | ignore elkner | 20:59 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh's words are law | 20:59 |
| pcardune | what if elkner says ignore jason? | 20:59 |
| eldar | lol | 20:59 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: then talk to dwelsh | 20:59 |
| pcardune | lol | 20:59 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh pays the bills | 20:59 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh makes the rules | 21:00 |
| pcardune | doesn't elkner have to sign the invoices also? | 21:00 |
| Lumiere | no comment | 21:00 |
| pcardune | lol | 21:00 |
| pcardune | ok, well eldar, have fun with the build | 21:01 |
| Lumiere | lol | 21:01 |
| pcardune | do whatever works | 21:01 |
| pcardune | and I'll beat up ignas and friends in vilnius :) | 21:01 |
| Lumiere | jinty: I am working on getting you a server, is there anything in particular I need to do to setup the build client? | 21:01 |
| Lumiere | lol | 21:01 |
| pcardune | and get them to show me how it should work the right way | 21:01 |
| Lumiere | pcardune / eldar: can you look at the cando wiki sprint pages | 21:02 |
| Lumiere | and make sure I didn't miss anything | 21:02 |
| pcardune | sure | 21:02 |
| eldar | pcardune, hahaha, yes please do that | 21:03 |
| jinty | Lumiere, er, you need to set up buildbot as a slave | 21:04 |
| Lumiere | ok | 21:04 |
| Lumiere | and point it at? | 21:04 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: are People the people who are attending the sprints? | 21:05 |
| Lumiere | yes | 21:05 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: and can you put the sprint dates on the main page? | 21:05 |
| Lumiere | probably | 21:06 |
| jinty | Lumiere, source.schooltool.org | 21:06 |
| jinty | checking port info now | 21:06 |
| jinty | Lumiere, port 9999 | 21:08 |
| Lumiere | now to figure out how to configure the buildslave | 21:09 |
| jinty | I think you need to send me the slave name and password | 21:10 |
| Lumiere | <name>, <passwd>, and <master> will be provided by the buildmaster administrator | 21:10 |
| Lumiere | for your bot. | 21:10 |
| jinty | how about this: you make up the name, and I'll make up the password | 21:11 |
| Lumiere | lol ok | 21:11 |
| Lumiere | cando-coverage for name | 21:11 |
| jinty | of the build? or the slave? | 21:12 |
| jinty | what's the name of the box | 21:12 |
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| Lumiere | the name of the box is cando06int, but it is behind a firewall | 21:12 |
| Lumiere | I was naming the build | 21:13 |
| Lumiere | brb | 21:14 |
| Lumiere | k | 21:18 |
| eldar | Lumiere, oops sorry was working on the build, yeah i'll look at the wiki right now | 21:22 |
| Lumiere | np | 21:22 |
| jinty | Lumiere: set up a test build here: http://source.schooltool.org/buildbot/ | 21:25 |
| jinty | all it'll do is make a cando checkout for now | 21:25 |
| jinty | and it's not scheduled | 21:25 |
| jinty | also sent you the password via e-mail | 21:26 |
| Lumiere | ok | 21:26 |
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| jinty | slave is named cando06int | 21:27 |
| Lumiere | correct | 21:28 |
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| Lumiere | hmm | 21:28 |
| Lumiere | I guess it isn't running yet | 21:28 |
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| pcardune | Lumiere: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/cando/+bug/111862 for status update | 21:29 |
| Lumiere | ok | 21:29 |
| Lumiere | jinty: have I messed something up | 21:30 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: I don't know that it is a problem with new checkouts of cando | 21:31 |
| pcardune | so what is the problem? | 21:32 |
| Lumiere | but, I know it shows up on the acc.cando production server | 21:32 |
| pcardune | right, that is not something that should be fixed by a code modification | 21:32 |
| Lumiere | ok | 21:32 |
| Lumiere | it's a data problem | 21:32 |
| Lumiere | rather then a code problem? | 21:33 |
| pcardune | the problem is that the title is not dynamically generated | 21:33 |
| pcardune | it is static | 21:33 |
| pcardune | and with good reason, because it is an attribute that the end user can modify to whatever he/she wants | 21:33 |
| Lumiere | and in the DB? | 21:33 |
| jinty | hmm, Lumiere try port 9989? | 21:34 |
| Lumiere | so when we generate them from now on | 21:34 |
| pcardune | so the old default is still around in those old blogs | 21:34 |
| Lumiere | ok | 21:34 |
| * jinty can't read | 21:34 | |
| pcardune | i'm sure if you try to reproduce the problem with a new student on your production server, it will have the new default | 21:34 |
| Lumiere | ok | 21:35 |
| pcardune | so the old titles should either be changed manually, or I can write a script to do it | 21:35 |
| Lumiere | I'll have dwelsh try it in a moment | 21:35 |
| pcardune | if there are a lot of students | 21:35 |
| dwelsh | dwelsh is here | 21:36 |
| jinty | Lumiere, I think you got unauthorized | 21:37 |
| Lumiere | ok | 21:37 |
| Lumiere | ah yes | 21:37 |
| Lumiere | unauthorized login | 21:38 |
| Lumiere | I copied the password verbatim | 21:38 |
| Lumiere | slavename cando-coverage | 21:38 |
| jinty | and the slavename? cando06int? | 21:38 |
| Lumiere | got it | 21:39 |
| Lumiere | building | 21:39 |
| jinty | er, well it's doing rather more than just checking out the source | 21:40 |
| jinty | ... | 21:40 |
| Lumiere | yes | 21:40 |
| Lumiere | seems to be | 21:40 |
| jinty | wee "failed" on compiling | 21:41 |
| Lumiere | yea | 21:41 |
| * jinty goes off to have dinner! | 21:41 | |
| Lumiere | at least that means it works | 21:41 |
| Lumiere | thanks jinty | 21:41 |
| jinty | no worries | 21:41 |
| jinty | we'll get the rest sorted out later | 21:41 |
| jinty | mails to the list | 21:41 |
| jinty | and triggers on commits | 21:41 |
| Lumiere | yea | 21:43 |
| Lumiere | this is enough for eldar and pcardune to at least see what's up | 21:43 |
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| eldar | so | 21:45 |
| eldar | how do we find out about errors? | 21:45 |
| pcardune | http://source.schooltool.org/buildbot/cando-coverage/builds/1/step-compile/0 | 21:47 |
| pcardune | that looks like the error that andrew was getting... | 21:47 |
| Lumiere | eldar: click on the log | 21:47 |
| Lumiere | oh | 21:48 |
| Lumiere | I know what that is I think | 21:48 |
| Lumiere | hmm or not | 21:49 |
| Lumiere | libunicode-dev wasn't installed | 21:50 |
| Lumiere | running build | 21:50 |
| Lumiere | grr | 21:51 |
| Lumiere | libicu34.dev... *tries that* | 21:52 |
| Lumiere | we need to make sure our package requires libicu | 21:53 |
| Lumiere | if that's what it is | 21:53 |
| Lumiere | still compiling | 21:54 |
| Lumiere | which suggests we're beyond that problem | 21:54 |
| eldar | well | 21:54 |
| eldar | you need | 21:54 |
| eldar | wait, is this feisty? | 21:54 |
| Lumiere | dapper | 21:54 |
| Lumiere | if I need feisty | 21:54 |
| Lumiere | I'll upgrade it | 21:55 |
| eldar | build-essential, python-dev, libc6-dev, python-libxml2, python-imaging, libicu-dev | 21:55 |
| eldar | are all required | 21:55 |
| Lumiere | but I wanted to make sure I could get a buildbot running before I upgrade | 21:55 |
| Lumiere | I was only missing icu-dev | 21:55 |
| eldar | you also need | 21:55 |
| eldar | setuptools | 21:55 |
| eldar | the dapper one | 21:55 |
| eldar | is too old | 21:55 |
| Lumiere | yes | 21:55 |
| eldar | have to use ez_setup.py | 21:55 |
| Lumiere | I should be good | 21:55 |
| eldar | but that thing is crap | 21:55 |
| eldar | last time i tried to build trunk on dapper | 21:55 |
| eldar | i failed miserably | 21:55 |
| eldar | trunk should build fine on feisty right now | 21:56 |
| Lumiere | oO | 21:56 |
| Lumiere | compile complete | 21:56 |
| Lumiere | successful | 21:56 |
| eldar | awesome | 21:57 |
| Lumiere | check the logs for me | 21:57 |
| Lumiere | make sure it is sane | 21:57 |
| eldar | where do i go for logs? | 21:59 |
| Lumiere | back to buildbot | 21:59 |
| Lumiere | click on log under compile | 21:59 |
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| eldar | looks good | 22:02 |
| Lumiere | cool | 22:06 |
| Lumiere | gonna make tests work | 22:07 |
| * pcardune steps out for lunch | 22:11 | |
| Lumiere | this thing is gonna run for a while | 22:13 |
| Lumiere | XD | 22:13 |
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| Lumiere | hi | 22:14 |
| sysfault | hi | 22:14 |
| dwelsh | pcardune: you still around??? | 22:15 |
| Lumiere | sysfault: anything I can help you with? :) | 22:16 |
| sysfault | nah, I'm fine. Just visiting | 22:16 |
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| eldar | sterling went down | 22:39 |
| Lumiere | yea | 22:39 |
| Lumiere | they'll get it back | 22:39 |
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| pcardune | dwelsh: I'm here now | 22:48 |
| * pcardune is back | 22:48 | |
| * pcardune looks at the book google gave him (Producing Open Source Software) and thinks to himself, "this is timely." | 22:49 | |
| Lumiere | lol | 22:56 |
| * Lumiere pings dwelsh | 22:57 | |
| dwelsh | pcardune: check you math on Time Clock | 23:03 |
| pcardune | dwelsh: I did, and got the same results | 23:03 |
| pcardune | what exactly was wrong? | 23:03 |
| dwelsh | our accountant checked your output, and DID NOT get the same results | 23:03 |
| pcardune | what did she get? | 23:03 |
| dwelsh | hrs. x $/hr. does not equal total? | 23:04 |
| dwelsh | Maybe she just interpreted something wrong. I'll ask. | 23:04 |
| Lumiere | >>> 40.24*25.0 | 23:05 |
| Lumiere | 1006.0 | 23:05 |
| Lumiere | Paul Carduner's Work Log (04/21/07 to 05/11/07) (40.24 hours, $1005.90) | 23:05 |
| dwelsh | do your hours add up? | 23:05 |
| dwelsh | to 40.24, I mean? | 23:05 |
| pcardune | n [5]: 40*25+14./60*25 | 23:06 |
| pcardune | Out[5]: 1005.8333333333334 | 23:06 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: | 23:06 |
| Lumiere | the hours in the list come out to 40.14 | 23:07 |
| pcardune | no, they come out to 40:14 | 23:07 |
| Lumiere | er meant : | 23:07 |
| Lumiere | but the list looks like 40:24 | 23:07 |
| pcardune | oh | 23:07 |
| pcardune | wait, what is the problem? | 23:07 |
| pcardune | one shows hours:minutes, and the other shows just hours | 23:08 |
| Lumiere | ic | 23:08 |
| pcardune | 40:14 hours = 40.14 hours | 23:08 |
| Lumiere | I see it now | 23:08 |
| pcardune | i mean 40:14 hours = 40.24 hours | 23:08 |
| pcardune | non-math majors shouldn't ask math majors to check their math :) | 23:09 |
| pcardune | lol | 23:09 |
| Lumiere | yea thanks : vs . = pain | 23:10 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: we need to make cando's make coverage | 23:12 |
| Lumiere | NOT run schooltool's make coverage | 23:12 |
| Lumiere | it's killing the buildbot | 23:12 |
| Lumiere | the bastard's been at it for over an hour | 23:12 |
| Lumiere | Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz | 23:13 |
| pcardune | ouch | 23:13 |
| dwelsh | back to math... | 23:13 |
| dwelsh | 40:14 * $25 = 1005.83 | 23:13 |
| dwelsh | so why does it say 1005.90? | 23:13 |
| dwelsh | another example... | 23:14 |
| dwelsh | 8:28 * $25 = $211.66 | 23:15 |
| dwelsh | you've got $212.08 | 23:15 |
| Lumiere | I gotta go | 23:15 |
| Lumiere | back tomorrow at 10 | 23:15 |
| pcardune | dwelsh: looking into it | 23:15 |
| pcardune | by Lumiere | 23:15 |
| pcardune | e | 23:15 |
| pcardune | bye* | 23:15 |
| dwelsh | here's the easiest: | 23:16 |
| dwelsh | 1:00 x $25 = $25; you've got $25.17 | 23:16 |
| eldar | it's prolly 1 hour and some minutes | 23:17 |
| dwelsh | that may be a part of it... the seconds. | 23:19 |
| dwelsh | I would round off the seconds. It confuses accountants | 23:20 |
| pcardune | and .4 minutes | 23:20 |
| pcardune | .17/25*60 | 23:20 |
| dwelsh | right. again, i would be inclined to round those off | 23:21 |
| pcardune | so there is your answer dwelsh, the math is even more right than you imagine :) | 23:21 |
| dwelsh | maybe a little too right! | 23:21 |
| pcardune | lol | 23:21 |
| pcardune | maybe we should just put in 1:00:24 instead? | 23:22 |
| dwelsh | could, but that gets a little crazy. | 23:22 |
| dwelsh | consultants usually bill to the nearest 15-mins. | 23:23 |
| dwelsh | and they factor in breaks, distractions, time off the project within a given period | 23:23 |
| dwelsh | I'm not sure we should bill consultant time like cell phone minutes | 23:24 |
| pcardune | lol | 23:24 |
| dwelsh | it just doesn't quite work that way | 23:24 |
| pcardune | actually, I agree with you | 23:24 |
| pcardune | nearest 15 minutes makes a lot of sense | 23:24 |
| pcardune | I mean, the method it's using does not discriminate towards any party. You are equally likely to click clockout in the latter half of a minute as the former half of a minute | 23:26 |
| dwelsh | I would even go for rounding to the nearest minute, and then use that as the multiplier | 23:26 |
| dwelsh | if seconds are not shown, then seconds should not be multiplied | 23:26 |
| dwelsh | that creates some confusion | 23:27 |
| pcardune | right, that is the point that I was making with 1:00:24 :) | 23:27 |
| pcardune | but 1:00:24 makes more work for the person using a calculator | 23:27 |
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| dwelsh | just round to 1:00 and multiply that way (or to 1:01, as the rounding case may be) | 23:27 |
| pcardune | they've gotta do (1+(0+24/60)/60)*25 | 23:28 |
| pcardune | instead of just (1+0/60)*25 | 23:28 |
| dwelsh | right. round off the seconds. I choose the later | 23:28 |
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| dwelsh | dwelsh headed home. good planning and progress today. | 23:30 |
| dwelsh | thanks eldar and pcardune | 23:30 |
| pcardune | np talk to you tomorrow | 23:30 |
| pcardune | eldar: how's it going? | 23:35 |
| eldar | pcardune, pretty good it works | 23:36 |
| eldar | the build that is | 23:36 |
| eldar | now gotta work on the batching changes | 23:36 |
| pcardune | maybe you should checkin the build fix now? | 23:37 |
| pcardune | eldar: ping | 23:40 |
| eldar | the build fix is already checked in | 23:40 |
| eldar | the buildbot | 23:41 |
| eldar | compiled successfully | 23:41 |
| pcardune | oh, nvm then | 23:41 |
| pcardune | i clearly wasn't paying attention | 23:41 |
| eldar | alright | 23:41 |
| eldar | i am going to go | 23:41 |
| eldar | and illegally | 23:41 |
| eldar | install os x | 23:41 |
| eldar | on my thinkpad | 23:41 |
| pcardune | what? | 23:41 |
| eldar | shhhh | 23:41 |
| pcardune | wait a second... | 23:41 |
| pcardune | how are you going to do this | 23:42 |
| pcardune | this is an applegate thing isn't it? | 23:42 |
| eldar | yesh | 23:42 |
| pcardune | oh, and can you update launchpad? | 23:42 |
| eldar | i found out you can do that from him | 23:42 |
| eldar | what do you want me to do in lp? | 23:42 |
| pcardune | update the bug for cando being included into schooltool | 23:43 |
| pcardune | which is assigned to you | 23:43 |
| eldar | gimme a link | 23:44 |
| eldar | i can't find it >.< | 23:44 |
| pcardune | https://bugs.launchpad.net/cando/+bug/120724 | 23:44 |
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