IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2007-05-04

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jintyignas: I just tried a trunk schooltool instance10:33
jintylooks broken10:34
lisppaste5jinty pasted "broken on eggs-redux branch" at
lisppaste5jinty pasted "broken on trunk" at
jintyhmm, now it seems to work on trunk after make realclean10:44
jintyhmm, also interesting, there is no schooltool version anymore really...10:57
jintyignas: can we move whatever is in schooltool/ somewhere else?10:58
jintygrrr, if I put [] in the packages list in, it still installs all packages...11:11
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jintySomething I picked up on is that EdUbuntu is targeting Gutsy to have16:10
jintyLDAP authentication set up by default. I think it would be very nice if16:10
jintywe could make connecting to that easy (I remember seeing work on it.)16:10
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Lumierejinty: there was a group on it at the pycon sprint16:34
Lumierejinty: cando is hoping to be ready for a gutsy release16:34
Lumiereeven if it's universe/multiverse only16:34
ignasjinty: hmm16:38
ignasjinty: any details / time to talk about it?16:38
ignasis edubuntu targeted to be "students computer", "school server" or both?16:39
Lumiereone of the huge things in edubuntu is ltsp16:41
Lumiereso... both at the same time no less16:41
Lumierelinux terminal server project16:45
Lumiereogra is a developer on ltsp16:46
CrippsFXah ... I was wondering why I couldn't find the source for cando on their site :P16:46
Lumierecando is basically unreleased16:47
Lumierethe only releases are from jinty on a deb repository @ ftp.schooltool.org16:48
LumiereI was hoping jinty would still be around for a moment16:48
Lumiereto chat about that16:48
* Fujitsu notes that LDAP works pretty well in SchoolTool at the moment, though having group stuff also LDAPised would be nice.17:02
Lumieregroups in schooltool could use a little <17:03
Lumiereerr <317:03
jintyignas: well, i think the're going to use the debian-edu schema mostly17:22
jintyso that should be public17:23
ignasjinty: i am interested in what kind of integration do we expect17:23
jintymight be nice for someone to have a look at the debian edu schema and make sure it'll all work17:23
jintywell, I think they have to trust us to deliver releases before they will trust us with essential services17:24
jintyso mostly I think integration will be importing data into schooltool (LDAP) that we can make easy17:24
ignasi am talking about schooltool side of the deal17:24
ignasi see17:25
ignashmm, we own the crontab, yes? ;)17:25
jintyotherwise I was talking with a moodle developer who was talking about the moodle gradebook17:25
jintymoodle also will probably authenticate against LDAP17:26
* jinty is really tired17:26
ignasoh, sorry17:27
jintyignas: edubuntu is really targeting LTSP installations I think17:27
ignascrontab to initiate synchronization to expunge outdated persons17:27
jintyor at least that's what all the guys round the table here are working on17:27
ignasserver side17:27
jintyyeah, we can do that, but communicating with the server over HTML is not an option17:28
ignasZEO then i guess17:28
jintyI mean from cron17:28
jintyor we need a socket/signals17:29
jintyeven REST17:29
ignaswe don't have time based tasks in Zope iirc17:29
ignasso the only way i imagine is opening a "link"17:29
jintydoesn't schooltool use twisted?17:29
ignasschooltool - no17:29
jintyso we're still on zserver17:29
ignasZope3 is using twisted for their serving needs17:29
ignasbut that does not make interfacing with twisted from schooltool reliable or elegant17:30
ignasthere are 3 libraries being developed17:30
ignasso if we can't use "wget"17:30
jintyyeah, i've used one of them before17:30
ignaswe will have to add one of them as a dependency17:30
jintythen set up the cron job within schooltool?17:31
ignasor can we make LDAP server ping us on user deletion?17:31
Lumierejinty: ogra is a core ltsp developer17:31
Lumierethat should explain a large amount of the edubuntu ltsp direction17:32
ignasor - we could make schooltool persons a gateway17:32
ignasdon't know which of these 3 is worse17:32
jintythe guys here say LDAP notifying schooltool is not possible/easy17:33
ignashmm, ok - gateway won't help us17:33
ignasgroup members etc. work directly with persons i think17:34
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ignasif i had a man-month or two, i could fix that by restructuring schooltool17:35
ignaswhich means - no gateways17:35
ignas2 options - wget and zope.some-package17:35
ignasok, 3 options17:36
jintyok, well I think LDAP is really just cream on the cake17:36
ignasZEO , wget, zope.some-package17:36
ignasjinty: working calendars for all the students the first time you install schooltool17:38
ignasseems like a lot of cream ;)17:38
ignasoh, ok ;)17:38
ignasjust recalled that we don't really want people using schooltool ;)17:39
ignashmm, if i had time - it would be possible to make CanDo run integrated with the LDAP part of edubuntu17:40
ignaswith groups and persons imported more or less seamlessly17:41
ignasso you would install CanDo, and teachers could just start setting up their competencies17:41
ignasbut with limited resources, i am not sure we need partial LDAP integration17:42
jintylet's just see if we can get the release out ;)17:42
jintynightly eggs17:42
ignascool :)17:42
ignasjinty: could you come up with a revision number r1234 instead of SVN ?17:43
jintyI'll try:)17:43
ignasand then we can try and create instructions for installing of svn schooltool with easy_install17:44
Lumierethat's make our lives easier17:45
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ignasLumiere: as we have mixed requirements it is not going to be trivial to implement the instruction part17:48
Lumiereignas: yes17:49
Lumiereignas: but to get trunk running?17:49
ignaswhat does it mean running with eggs?17:50
Lumierejinty: schooltool-cando is my goal for this year17:50
ignaswould we be content with putting of the Data.fs in the same place our egg is17:50
ignasor do we want mkschooltoolinstance17:50
ignaswhich adds steps to the install procedure17:51
ignasbut makes it possible to have multiple instances with configuration and database in the same place?17:51
jintyignas: perhaps we might just distribute a tarball that holds a default instance17:51
ignaswhich of these two is more important for a debian release?17:51
ignasjinty: cool idea17:51
jintythe debian package makes it's own FHS compliant instance17:51
ignasjinty: the only worry is eggs with binary content17:52
ignasjinty: like zope.icu17:52
ignasi mean17:52
jintyit doesnt' really care about mkinstance because mkinstance doesn't do the right thing17:52
Lumierehow hard is it to make a default data.fs?17:52
ignasLumiere: the question is - how hart is it to make the default skeleton17:53
jintyLumiere, the problem is where to put it, not really how to make it17:53
ignasconfig files, place for data.fs, log files17:53
ignaseggs only have 2 directories17:53
ignasand src17:53
Lumierebin/schooltool-skel? moved on egg install?17:53
ignasLumiere: very ugly17:54
ignasLumiere: log files in bin17:54
jintyplease don't build these things into the egg layer17:54
* Lumiere agrees with jinty 17:54
Lumierethey should be for package only17:54
jintyunless you can do it absolutely right, you'll decrease the utility of the egg17:54
jintyfro people who just need the schooltool module17:55
ignasjinty: have you looked at ZODB and how it does things with zeo?17:55
jintya mkschooltool instance script isn't such a bad idea17:55
jintyignas: yeah, I know ZEO, and it does seem to be the right way to do things17:56
jintyat least it seems a lot more work goes into ZEO17:57
ignasjinty: except that it's mkzeoinstance doesn't work right at the moment, and we can't copy and paste the approach ;)17:57
jintyfrom the debian packages point of view, I don't think it matters17:57
ignasyes, that's true17:58
jintya default instance tarball could be made from the development checkout17:58
jintyand might be easier to maintain17:58
ignasjinty: what do you call "default instance"?18:00
jintyI was thinking more or less what the top level of our checkout looks like now18:01
ignasthe only problem is - it includes everything18:01
jintythat you can unpack, run a script and run schooltool18:01
ignasbut yes18:02
jintyit would probably not have a src/ fdirectory18:02
jintybut get schooltool as an egg into eggs/18:02
ignaswe could do that18:02
ignasiirc buildout could do that18:03
jintyI think so too18:04
ignassounds like a plan ;)18:06
ignasa small checkout with buildout script and recipe (no idea how it works), that after being executed pulls all the eggs and set's everything up18:06
ignasi will have to ask alga how to do that or start reading buildout docs18:07
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Lumiereflint: wouldn't happen to be paul flint18:08
jintyignas: would be great if you could set something like this up18:08
flintIndeed it is...18:08
flintI am allegedly mentoring some poor kid in Elkner's class18:09
flintgotta go...18:10
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Lumieremay someone have mercy on that students soul18:10
Lumiereflint is an infamous man to the cando group18:11
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ignasjinty: is the zpkg removal branch ready for merging or are you going to do anything else with it?18:35
jintyignas: I think it's ready18:36
jintygot loads of work to do thoug18:36
jintyIs there any need to merge it?18:36
jintyif so, then yeah, lets merge18:36
ignasjinty: zpkg dependency is annoying ;) other than that - i can wait18:37
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ignasgot it kind of working but i am getting stuck on z3c.javascript.mochikit egg ..18:42
ignasschooltool can find the egg18:43
ignasbuildout can't18:43
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jintyignas: I think I got that continuous svn release thing going19:47
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jintyshould be a new one there every night19:48
jintyfeel free to disagree with my choice of version number19:48
jintyI was just beeing safe19:48
jintyhasta luego19:48
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Lumiere0.0.0 works for me19:50
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