| wjohnsto | pcardune: hello | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
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| wjohnsto | pcardune: ayt? | 00:10 |
| wjohnsto | guess not | 00:24 |
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| pcardune_ | wjohnsto: I'm hear now :) | 01:04 |
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| wjohnsto | pcardune: hey | 03:36 |
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| pcardune | hi wjohnsto | 03:37 |
| wjohnsto | were you trying to contact me earlier? | 03:39 |
| pcardune | no, just letting you know I was around | 03:39 |
| wjohnsto | ok | 03:39 |
| pcardune | but now i have to go | 03:39 |
| pcardune | bye | 03:39 |
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| Lumiere | night all, I'll be back for the dev meeting in 8 hours | 08:24 |
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| jfroche | hey ignas ! | 13:32 |
| jfroche | how was the trip back ? | 13:33 |
| ignas | quite well :) | 13:33 |
| ignas | thank you :) | 13:33 |
| jfroche | no delay at last ? | 13:33 |
| ignas | no :) | 13:36 |
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| Lumiere | 'morning everyone | 16:28 |
| th1a | Good morning. | 16:28 |
| * Lumiere waits with anticipation for th1a to show super human strength in holding a 25 kg bag of gravel for 45 minutes | 16:29 | |
| th1a | Hi ignas jfroche. | 16:29 |
| ignas | hi | 16:29 |
| th1a | It is a small bag of gravel. | 16:29 |
| Lumiere | ah | 16:29 |
| jfroche | good morning | 16:29 |
| ignas | and it's 60 minutes ;) | 16:29 |
| th1a | Mostly symbolic. | 16:29 |
| jfroche | :) | 16:29 |
| Lumiere | ignas: not most weeks | 16:30 |
| th1a | I'd like to introduce Lameiro. | 16:30 |
| Lumiere | hi Lameiro | 16:30 |
| th1a | aka Leandro Lameiro. | 16:30 |
| jfroche | hello Leandro Lameiro | 16:30 |
| ignas | Lumiere: we're giving 120% so it ends faster | 16:30 |
| ignas | hi Lameiro | 16:30 |
| Lumiere | ignas: yep | 16:30 |
| th1a | He is doing a Summer of Code project to write a gradebook client in GTK/Python which I'm mentoring. | 16:30 |
| Lumiere | very cool | 16:31 |
| ignas | nice :) | 16:31 |
| jfroche | great | 16:31 |
| th1a | Although he might not actually be at his computer right now ;-) | 16:31 |
| * Lumiere is Jason Straw, slave driver and assistant project manager for CanDo | 16:31 | |
| * th1a did not know Lumiere had a title for CanDo. | 16:31 | |
| Lumiere | (Launchpad calls me a driver... I don't know any other type of drivers) | 16:32 |
| Lumiere | th1a: they had to call me something | 16:32 |
| Lumiere | and I don't do much development these days | 16:32 |
| th1a | Anyhow, Lameiro is from Brazil & was actually at the PyGame sprint a PyCon, so he was sitting a table away from us for a couple days. | 16:32 |
| th1a | So we need to exchange pictures at some point. | 16:33 |
| th1a | So, how did things go last week? Lots of checkins. | 16:34 |
| ignas | a wee bit, yes | 16:34 |
| jfroche | was really interesting | 16:34 |
| ignas | the results - indexed tables for everyone! | 16:34 |
| ignas | as in showing 1000 users is a lot faster now | 16:35 |
| th1a | Excellent. | 16:35 |
| ignas | showing 10K users is possible | 16:36 |
| Lumiere | we need to think whether we ever want to show 1000 users at once | 16:36 |
| jfroche | ignas: you got news from Martijn to review it ? | 16:36 |
| ignas | jfroche: no | 16:36 |
| ignas | Lumiere: no we want to show 10 users | 16:36 |
| ignas | Lumiere: but with 10K users showing 10 out of them was slow | 16:37 |
| Lumiere | ah | 16:37 |
| ignas | jfroche: i am doing some additional refactoring of schooltool.table | 16:37 |
| ignas | which is the new module that does filtering, batching, sorting, and can integrate with catalog | 16:38 |
| ignas | if indexes are available | 16:38 |
| th1a | How quick is showing 10 of 10,000 now? | 16:39 |
| th1a | I mean, from a user's perspective? | 16:39 |
| ignas | ~3-4 seconds i think | 16:39 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:39 |
| ignas | sorting 10k users while paying attention to locale still takes up time | 16:40 |
| ignas | i have an idea of how to fix that though | 16:40 |
| jfroche | ignas: should i try to write a README there ? | 16:40 |
| ignas | jfroche: yes | 16:40 |
| jfroche | ok will do | 16:40 |
| th1a | ignas: What's the effect of locale? | 16:41 |
| ignas | in english you sort | 16:41 |
| ignas | a,b,c,d,ą,č,ę | 16:41 |
| ignas | in lithuanian it's more like | 16:41 |
| ignas | a,ą,b,c,č,d,ę | 16:42 |
| ignas | and whatever is the order in french, nepali, etc. | 16:42 |
| th1a | Is there some library that knows that? | 16:42 |
| ignas | yes | 16:42 |
| ignas | but even with that library being quite fast, looking up the order 36K times (sorting 10k items needs to compare keys 36k times) | 16:43 |
| ignas | takes some seconds | 16:43 |
| ignas | but hey, it's 10k users, we had 1000 users taking 15 seconds ;) | 16:43 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:44 |
| ignas | Martijn Faassen mentioned that he'd like schooltool.table to be relicenced under ZPL | 16:44 |
| ignas | if possible | 16:44 |
| th1a | Ah... I agree that we should, but Mark has never been receptive to that. | 16:44 |
| ignas | i have already performed the extraction, making it not depend on anything from schooltool | 16:45 |
| ignas | so we only need some more documentation, and - Marks permission | 16:45 |
| th1a | So do you expect to start using catalogs more widely now in ST? | 16:45 |
| jfroche | th1a: not receptive because he don't have much time or because he doesn't like that ? | 16:45 |
| ignas | th1a, i am using them as widely as we need at the moment already | 16:46 |
| Lumiere | I am wondering if catalogs would be useful in cando | 16:47 |
| ignas | th1a, but rendering tables of items now is a lot more standard, and convenient | 16:47 |
| th1a | jfroche: Well... we've talked about it. I think it is a combination of wanting to keep things simple and not wanting us drawn into writing core Zope 3 modules. | 16:47 |
| th1a | OK. The best place to see this is in the Lyceum branch (at the moment)? | 16:47 |
| Lumiere | th1a: if what we're already writing should be a core zope 3 module, why shouldn't we be writing and upstreaming it? | 16:48 |
| ignas | why shouldn't Zope3 developers be using it and maintaining it for us ;) | 16:48 |
| Lumiere | ignas: write it for em and maybe they will | 16:48 |
| th1a | Lumiere: This is a conversation we've had many times... basically, Mark is paying the bills here, and he's made it clear that he wants it this way. | 16:49 |
| Lumiere | yea | 16:49 |
| th1a | Based on my experiences with Mark, it isn't really worth trying to change his mind. | 16:49 |
| th1a | I don't have a lot of incentive to nag him about things that he's made his feelings clear about. | 16:50 |
| ignas | makes sens | 16:50 |
| ignas | sense | 16:50 |
| * Lumiere agrees | 16:50 | |
| jfroche | yup | 16:51 |
| th1a | So... jfroche: What's on your to do list? | 16:51 |
| jfroche | gradebook | 16:51 |
| jfroche | and try to meet with the guy in charge of the timetable at school | 16:52 |
| jfroche | so that we could try to import them | 16:52 |
| jfroche | but my main point is having a nice gradebook for them | 16:52 |
| th1a | Good. | 16:52 |
| th1a | Have you looked at the code Stephan and I worked on? | 16:53 |
| jfroche | no is it in a branch ? | 16:53 |
| th1a | It is in trunk. | 16:54 |
| th1a | The gradebook module. | 16:54 |
| jfroche | yep had a look at it | 16:54 |
| jfroche | i think they need more views | 16:54 |
| th1a | Yes the views aren't complete, but I think the model is in good shape. | 16:55 |
| jfroche | yep, anyway my job is to improve it | 16:55 |
| jfroche | but i don't know which things we be good for everyone | 16:55 |
| th1a | Basically, Stephan wrote what you see in one of his fast blasts, and then never got back to it. | 16:55 |
| th1a | I'm just saying that I don't think you should need to start from scratch. | 16:56 |
| jfroche | so if i have question about it i know who to ask to, good | 16:56 |
| th1a | Well, you should probably start from scratch on the views, actually. | 16:56 |
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| th1a | Or start by looking at the CanDo gradebook code. | 16:56 |
| Lumiere | hi mgedmin | 16:56 |
| th1a | It would make sense to share if possible. | 16:57 |
| jfroche | positive point is that most of the ui was drawn at the school in excel files | 16:57 |
| Lumiere | yes, pcardune is working on the comp gradebook | 16:57 |
| Lumiere | in the cando-experimental branch | 16:57 |
| jfroche | i have seen a branch yep | 16:57 |
| Lumiere | he's ajaxing the whole thing | 16:58 |
| th1a | jfroche: Yes, don't get bogged down on all possible cases. Make it work for your customer first. | 16:58 |
| * mgedmin waves | 16:58 | |
| * th1a waves at mgedmin. | 16:58 | |
| jfroche | i was thinking about ajax too | 16:58 |
| th1a | It is an ideal case for it, I think. | 16:58 |
| jfroche | as they use to encode this pretty fast in excell | 16:58 |
| Lumiere | the other thing experimental has is an update to mojikit | 16:58 |
| jfroche | but i will be using KSS i think | 16:59 |
| jfroche | i worked on it at the last Plone sprint | 16:59 |
| jfroche | it's also working on zope 3 and working correctly | 16:59 |
| th1a | Uh oh. Dueling Ajax libraries. | 16:59 |
| Lumiere | mojikit (if I am spelling it right <_<) was already in schooltool at .13 | 17:00 |
| Lumiere | pcardune put the latest .14 version in | 17:00 |
| th1a | Do any of these have separate packages in Ubuntu yet? | 17:01 |
| th1a | If that even makes sense for a Javascript library? | 17:01 |
| Lumiere | no idea, but the lib didn't even have a z3 egg | 17:01 |
| Lumiere | paul had to make his own | 17:01 |
| th1a | Anyone else have any idea? | 17:03 |
| Lumiere | I don't think so | 17:03 |
| ignas | more licences? | 17:05 |
| th1a | Well, I guess we should try to figure out if this is going to bite us in the ass down the road. | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | likely | 17:05 |
| ACSpike[Work] | Hello. Don't mean to interrupt your meeting, but I wanted to say that I'm very interested in learning about Zope3 and I'd like to see if I can find some small way to help with schooltool as I learn the technology. | 17:05 |
| jfroche | there is an egg for kss at least | 17:05 |
| ignas | ACSpike[Work]: hmm, do you know how to write testbrowser functional tests ? | 17:06 |
| ACSpike[Work] | ignas: not yet. | 17:06 |
| th1a | Hi ACSpike[Work]: I guess the general answer to your question is that we recently cleaned up and organized (tagged) our bug tracker on Launchpad.net so it should be easy to find things to do. | 17:07 |
| ignas | ACSpike[Work]: as at the moment we have no HowTo available, you should look at zope testbrowser documentation | 17:08 |
| ACSpike[Work] | excellent, I took a quick look through this weekend. (too quick to decide if there was something I could figure out) | 17:08 |
| ignas | ACSpike[Work]: and when you will learn how to do it i can try and help you write a basic functional test for schooltool | 17:08 |
| ignas | ACSpike[Work]: and later you could probably if not fix schooltool bugs in the bugtracker | 17:08 |
| th1a | ACSpike[Work]: I tried to make the tags useful, so you might try using them. | 17:09 |
| ignas | you could at least write functional tests that reproduce these bugs | 17:09 |
| ACSpike[Work] | I'm interested in schooltool because I work for a small private college that trains teachers, so I have a lot of contact with people running elementary school who need a sis, and I'd really love to have something oss to point them too. | 17:09 |
| th1a | ACSpike[Work]: Where in the world are you? | 17:09 |
| ACSpike[Work] | Minnesota | 17:10 |
| th1a | I'm in Rhode Island. | 17:10 |
| * Lumiere is just outside Washington, DC | 17:10 | |
| ACSpike[Work] | seemed like a lot of schooltool devs are on the east coast | 17:10 |
| ACSpike[Work] | and the schools you are working with are in europe | 17:10 |
| * jfroche is in Belgium (it's more east) | 17:10 | |
| ACSpike[Work] | :-) | 17:11 |
| th1a | We've got our two core developers in Europe, but CanDo is growing in Arlington, VA. | 17:11 |
| ACSpike[Work] | ok | 17:11 |
| th1a | Anyhow... ignas, what's on your to do list now? | 17:12 |
| th1a | Other than finishing up this catalog/table stuff? | 17:12 |
| ignas | th1a: merging resource booking | 17:12 |
| ignas | adding a schoolwide weekday timetable | 17:13 |
| ignas | talking to lyceum | 17:13 |
| ignas | the, probably gradebook | 17:13 |
| ignas | s/the/then | 17:13 |
| th1a | So we're all going to be focusing on gradebook in the near future? | 17:13 |
| Lumiere | jelkner will be happy to hear that the gradebook is going to be getting love | 17:13 |
| th1a | Yes, he wants to use it, so he was talking about getting some CanDo kids on it. | 17:14 |
| ignas | Lumiere: not that gradebok | 17:14 |
| ignas | Lumiere: i will be doing a new one | 17:14 |
| Lumiere | but will it be in schooltool? | 17:14 |
| ignas | not trunk probably | 17:14 |
| ignas | maybe in trunk if it will look useful | 17:14 |
| Lumiere | he wants an actual gradebook for his classes, not just a competency gradebook | 17:15 |
| th1a | Oh yes, Lithuanian gradebooks are a bit different, conceptually. | 17:15 |
| th1a | ignas: Does this include attendance? | 17:15 |
| Lumiere | ah | 17:15 |
| ignas | yes | 17:15 |
| ignas | it includes attendance | 17:15 |
| * Lumiere realizes he screwed up and didn't get his taxes in | 17:15 | |
| * Lumiere checks irs site and calms down as the deadline is tuesday | 17:16 | |
| Lumiere | sorry about the interruption | 17:17 |
| th1a | OK, so we'll have a separate Lithuanian gradebook. That's fine. | 17:18 |
| th1a | ignas & jfroche: Could you write a short post for the SchoolTool (main not dev) list about what you accomplished at the sprint? I'm thinking a couple sentences. | 17:19 |
| ignas | ok | 17:19 |
| ignas | will do | 17:19 |
| jfroche | i can add another sentence if you want ;) | 17:20 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 17:20 |
| th1a | ignas: Do you like Brussels? | 17:20 |
| th1a | jfroche: Are you living in Brussels now? | 17:20 |
| jfroche | no, more in the jungle | 17:21 |
| jfroche | 60km from brussels | 17:21 |
| ignas | th1a: a nice place to work ;) no distractions, no national holidays :) | 17:21 |
| jfroche | nearly :) | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | sorry about the interruption | 17:21 |
| th1a | No hills. | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | err | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | jfroche: if it has net, it isn't that bad | 17:22 |
| jfroche | Lumiere: we even have net ! | 17:22 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Do you have anything to add? | 17:22 |
| Lumiere | nope | 17:22 |
| Lumiere | I think I am just subtracting IQ today | 17:22 |
| ignas | th1a: i am going to be resting this week at least some time | 17:23 |
| ignas | so this week won't be as intensive as the last one ;) | 17:23 |
| th1a | One bit of news, my friend Steve is writing a job description for someone to write a free test suite for SIF servers and agents. | 17:23 |
| Lumiere | should I poke jelkner on that? | 17:24 |
| th1a | So that'll be helpful in encouraging SIF adoption by open source projects, since you won't have to pay $4000 a year for the privilege of testing your agent. | 17:24 |
| Lumiere | ah | 17:24 |
| th1a | Lumiere: I can't remember if I mentioned it to him. I think I did. | 17:24 |
| Lumiere | I'll make sure | 17:24 |
| th1a | OK. I think that's it. | 17:25 |
| th1a | Have a good week gentlemen. | 17:25 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:25 | |
| Lumiere | I'll be back in an hour | 17:25 |
| ACSpike[Work] | what is SIF? | 17:29 |
| ACSpike[Work] | School Interoperability Framework? | 17:30 |
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| ignas | something like that i think | 17:34 |
| ACSpike[Work] | http://www.sifinfo.org/ | 17:37 |
| th1a | ACSpike[Work]: Oh, yes. | 17:38 |
| th1a | Sorry I wasn't paying attention. | 17:38 |
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| Lumiere | hi pcardune | 21:18 |
| pcardune | hi Lumiere | 21:19 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: what's all this about i.e. compatibility | 21:22 |
| Lumiere | welsh wants Internet Exploder 7.0 compat in 07 | 21:23 |
| Lumiere | and it's very close | 21:23 |
| pcardune | at least its ie7 i suppose | 21:23 |
| Lumiere | it already supports the dashboard and the menus | 21:23 |
| Lumiere | ya | 21:23 |
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