IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2007-04-16

wjohnstopcardune: hello00:04
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wjohnstopcardune: ayt?00:10
wjohnstoguess not00:24
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pcardune_wjohnsto: I'm hear now :)01:04
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wjohnstopcardune: hey03:36
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pcardunehi wjohnsto03:37
wjohnstowere you trying to contact me earlier?03:39
pcarduneno, just letting you know I was around03:39
pcardunebut now i have to go03:39
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Lumierenight all, I'll be back for the dev meeting in 8 hours08:24
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jfrochehey ignas !13:32
jfrochehow was the trip back ?13:33
ignasquite well :)13:33
ignasthank you :)13:33
jfrocheno delay at last ?13:33
ignasno :)13:36
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Lumiere'morning everyone16:28
th1aGood morning.16:28
* Lumiere waits with anticipation for th1a to show super human strength in holding a 25 kg bag of gravel for 45 minutes16:29
th1aHi ignas jfroche.16:29
th1aIt is a small bag of gravel.16:29
jfrochegood morning16:29
ignasand it's 60 minutes ;)16:29
th1aMostly symbolic.16:29
Lumiereignas: not most weeks16:30
th1aI'd like to introduce Lameiro.16:30
Lumierehi Lameiro16:30
th1aaka Leandro Lameiro.16:30
jfrochehello Leandro Lameiro16:30
ignasLumiere: we're giving 120% so it ends faster16:30
ignashi Lameiro16:30
Lumiereignas: yep16:30
th1aHe is doing a Summer of Code project to write a gradebook client in GTK/Python which I'm mentoring.16:30
Lumierevery cool16:31
ignasnice :)16:31
th1aAlthough he might not actually be at his computer right now ;-)16:31
* Lumiere is Jason Straw, slave driver and assistant project manager for CanDo16:31
* th1a did not know Lumiere had a title for CanDo.16:31
Lumiere(Launchpad calls me a driver... I don't know any other type of drivers)16:32
Lumiereth1a: they had to call me something16:32
Lumiereand I don't do much development these days16:32
th1aAnyhow, Lameiro is from Brazil & was actually at the PyGame sprint a PyCon, so he was sitting a table away from us for a couple days.16:32
th1aSo we need to exchange pictures at some point.16:33
th1aSo, how did things go last week?  Lots of checkins.16:34
ignasa wee bit, yes16:34
jfrochewas really interesting16:34
ignasthe results - indexed tables for everyone!16:34
ignasas in showing 1000 users is a lot faster now16:35
ignasshowing 10K users is possible16:36
Lumierewe need to think whether we ever want to show 1000 users at once16:36
jfrocheignas: you got news from Martijn to review it ?16:36
ignasjfroche: no16:36
ignasLumiere: no we want to show 10 users16:36
ignasLumiere: but with 10K users showing 10 out of them was slow16:37
ignasjfroche: i am doing some additional refactoring of schooltool.table16:37
ignaswhich is the new module that does filtering, batching, sorting, and can integrate with catalog16:38
ignasif indexes are available16:38
th1aHow quick is showing 10 of 10,000 now?16:39
th1aI mean, from a user's perspective?16:39
ignas~3-4 seconds i think16:39
ignassorting 10k users while paying attention to locale still takes up time16:40
ignasi have an idea of how to fix that though16:40
jfrocheignas: should i try to write a README there ?16:40
ignasjfroche: yes16:40
jfrocheok will do16:40
th1aignas: What's the effect of locale?16:41
ignasin english you sort16:41
ignasin lithuanian it's more like16:41
ignasand whatever is the order in french, nepali, etc.16:42
th1aIs there some library that knows that?16:42
ignasbut even with that library being quite fast, looking up the order 36K times (sorting 10k items needs to compare keys 36k times)16:43
ignastakes some seconds16:43
ignasbut hey, it's 10k users, we had 1000 users taking 15 seconds ;)16:43
ignasMartijn Faassen mentioned that he'd like schooltool.table to be relicenced under ZPL16:44
ignasif possible16:44
th1aAh... I agree that we should, but Mark has never been receptive to that.16:44
ignasi have already performed the extraction, making it not depend on anything from schooltool16:45
ignasso we only need some more documentation, and - Marks permission16:45
th1aSo do you expect to start using catalogs more widely now in ST?16:45
jfrocheth1a: not receptive because he don't have much time or because he doesn't like that ?16:45
ignasth1a, i am using them as widely as we need at the moment already16:46
LumiereI am wondering if catalogs would be useful in cando16:47
ignasth1a, but rendering tables of items now is a lot more standard, and convenient16:47
th1ajfroche: Well... we've talked about it.  I think it is a combination of wanting to keep things simple and not wanting us drawn into writing core Zope 3 modules.16:47
th1aOK.  The best place to see this is in the Lyceum branch (at the moment)?16:47
Lumiereth1a: if what we're already writing should be a core zope 3 module, why shouldn't we be writing and upstreaming it?16:48
ignaswhy shouldn't Zope3 developers be using it and maintaining it for us ;)16:48
Lumiereignas: write it for em and maybe they will16:48
th1aLumiere: This is a conversation we've had many times... basically, Mark is paying the bills here, and he's made it clear that he wants it this way.16:49
th1aBased on my experiences with Mark, it isn't really worth trying to change his mind.16:49
th1aI don't have a lot of incentive to nag him about things that he's made his feelings clear about.16:50
ignasmakes sens16:50
* Lumiere agrees16:50
th1aSo... jfroche: What's on your to do list?16:51
jfrocheand try to meet with the guy in charge of the timetable at school16:52
jfrocheso that we could try to import them16:52
jfrochebut my main point is having a nice gradebook for them16:52
th1aHave you looked at the code Stephan and I worked on?16:53
jfrocheno is it in a branch ?16:53
th1aIt is in trunk.16:54
th1aThe gradebook module.16:54
jfrocheyep had a look at it16:54
jfrochei think they need more views16:54
th1aYes the views aren't complete, but I think the model is in good shape.16:55
jfrocheyep, anyway my job is to improve it16:55
jfrochebut i don't know which things we be good for everyone16:55
th1aBasically, Stephan wrote what you see in one of his fast blasts, and then never got back to it.16:55
th1aI'm just saying that I don't think you should need to start from scratch.16:56
jfrocheso if i have question about it i know who to ask to, good16:56
th1aWell, you should probably start from scratch on the views, actually.16:56
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th1aOr start by looking at the CanDo gradebook code.16:56
Lumierehi mgedmin16:56
th1aIt would make sense to share if possible.16:57
jfrochepositive point is that most of the ui was drawn at the school in excel files16:57
Lumiereyes, pcardune is working on the comp gradebook16:57
Lumierein the cando-experimental branch16:57
jfrochei have seen a branch yep16:57
Lumierehe's ajaxing the whole thing16:58
th1ajfroche: Yes, don't get bogged down on all possible cases.  Make it work for your customer first.16:58
* mgedmin waves16:58
* th1a waves at mgedmin.16:58
jfrochei was thinking about ajax too16:58
th1aIt is an ideal case for it, I think.16:58
jfrocheas they use to encode this pretty fast in excell16:58
Lumierethe other thing experimental has is an update to mojikit16:58
jfrochebut i will be using KSS i think16:59
jfrochei worked on it at the last Plone sprint16:59
jfrocheit's also working on zope 3 and working correctly16:59
th1aUh oh.  Dueling Ajax libraries.16:59
Lumieremojikit (if I am spelling it right <_<) was already in schooltool at .1317:00
Lumierepcardune put the latest .14 version in17:00
th1aDo any of these have separate packages in Ubuntu yet?17:01
th1aIf that even makes sense for a Javascript library?17:01
Lumiereno idea, but the lib didn't even have a z3 egg17:01
Lumierepaul had to make his own17:01
th1aAnyone else have any idea?17:03
LumiereI don't think so17:03
ignasmore licences?17:05
th1aWell, I guess we should try to figure out if this is going to bite us in the ass down the road.17:05
ACSpike[Work]Hello. Don't mean to interrupt your meeting, but I wanted to say that I'm very interested in learning about Zope3 and I'd like to see if I can find some small way to help with schooltool as I learn the technology.17:05
jfrochethere is an egg for kss at least17:05
ignasACSpike[Work]: hmm, do you know how to write testbrowser functional tests ?17:06
ACSpike[Work]ignas: not yet.17:06
th1aHi ACSpike[Work]:  I guess the general answer to your question is that we recently cleaned up and organized (tagged) our bug tracker on so it should be easy to find things to do.17:07
ignasACSpike[Work]: as at the moment we have no HowTo available, you should look at zope testbrowser documentation17:08
ACSpike[Work]excellent, I took a quick look through this weekend. (too quick to decide if there was something I could figure out)17:08
ignasACSpike[Work]: and when you will learn how to do it i can try and help you write a basic functional test for schooltool17:08
ignasACSpike[Work]: and later you could probably if not fix schooltool bugs in the bugtracker17:08
th1aACSpike[Work]: I tried to make the tags useful, so you might try using them.17:09
ignasyou could at least write functional tests that reproduce these bugs17:09
ACSpike[Work]I'm interested in schooltool because I work for a small private college that trains teachers, so I have a lot of contact with people running elementary school who need a sis, and I'd really love to have something oss to point them too.17:09
th1aACSpike[Work]: Where in the world are you?17:09
th1aI'm in Rhode Island.17:10
* Lumiere is just outside Washington, DC17:10
ACSpike[Work]seemed like a lot of schooltool devs are on the east coast17:10
ACSpike[Work]and the schools you are working with are in europe17:10
* jfroche is in Belgium (it's more east)17:10
th1aWe've got our two core developers in Europe, but CanDo is growing in Arlington, VA.17:11
th1aAnyhow... ignas, what's on your to do list now?17:12
th1aOther than finishing up this catalog/table stuff?17:12
ignasth1a: merging resource booking17:12
ignasadding a schoolwide weekday timetable17:13
ignastalking to lyceum17:13
ignasthe, probably gradebook17:13
th1aSo we're all going to be focusing on gradebook in the near future?17:13
Lumierejelkner will be happy to hear that the gradebook is going to be getting love17:13
th1aYes, he wants to use it, so he was talking about getting some CanDo kids on it.17:14
ignasLumiere: not that gradebok17:14
ignasLumiere: i will be doing a new one17:14
Lumierebut will it be in schooltool?17:14
ignasnot trunk probably17:14
ignasmaybe in trunk if it will look useful17:14
Lumierehe wants an actual gradebook for his classes, not just a competency gradebook17:15
th1aOh yes, Lithuanian gradebooks are a bit different, conceptually.17:15
th1aignas: Does this include attendance?17:15
ignasit includes attendance17:15
* Lumiere realizes he screwed up and didn't get his taxes in17:15
* Lumiere checks irs site and calms down as the deadline is tuesday17:16
Lumieresorry about the interruption17:17
th1aOK, so we'll have a separate Lithuanian gradebook.  That's fine.17:18
th1aignas & jfroche:  Could you write a short post for the SchoolTool (main not dev) list about what you accomplished at the sprint?  I'm thinking a couple sentences.17:19
ignaswill do17:19
jfrochei can add another sentence if you want ;)17:20
th1aignas: Do you like Brussels?17:20
th1ajfroche: Are you living in Brussels now?17:20
jfrocheno, more in the jungle17:21
jfroche60km from brussels17:21
ignasth1a: a nice place to work ;) no distractions, no national holidays :)17:21
jfrochenearly :)17:21
Lumieresorry about the interruption17:21
th1aNo hills.17:21
Lumierejfroche: if it has net, it isn't that bad17:22
jfrocheLumiere: we even have net !17:22
th1aLumiere: Do you have anything to add?17:22
LumiereI think I am just subtracting IQ today17:22
ignasth1a: i am going to be resting this week at least some time17:23
ignasso this week won't be as intensive as the last one ;)17:23
th1aOne bit of news, my friend Steve is writing a job description for someone to write a free test suite for SIF servers and agents.17:23
Lumiereshould I poke jelkner on that?17:24
th1aSo that'll be helpful in encouraging SIF adoption by open source projects, since you won't have to pay $4000 a year for the privilege of testing your agent.17:24
th1aLumiere: I can't remember if I mentioned it to him.  I think I did.17:24
LumiereI'll make sure17:24
th1aOK.  I think that's it.17:25
th1aHave a good week gentlemen.17:25
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:25
LumiereI'll be back in an hour17:25
ACSpike[Work]what is SIF?17:29
ACSpike[Work]School Interoperability Framework?17:30
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ignassomething like that i think17:34
th1aACSpike[Work]: Oh, yes.17:38
th1aSorry I wasn't paying attention.17:38
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Lumierehi pcardune21:18
pcardunehi Lumiere21:19
pcarduneLumiere: what's all this about i.e. compatibility21:22
Lumierewelsh wants Internet Exploder 7.0 compat in 0721:23
Lumiereand it's very close21:23
pcarduneat least its ie7 i suppose21:23
Lumiereit already supports the dashboard and the menus21:23
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