IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2007-02-13

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ignasjfroche: you there ?16:04
jfrochegot my mail ?16:05
ignaswell ...16:09
jfrochea global named utility like that is ok ?16:10
ignasapart from the obvious - you don't have getGroups defined in the interface but you are calling that method of the utility anyway16:10
ignasit might be improved i think16:10
jfrochei was wondering if i should move the full initialization in the utility16:11
ignasi think oyu should16:11
ignasi think you should then inherit from the original utility16:11
jfroche"inherit from the original utility", you mean inherit from GroupInitializationUtility in JacqmainGroupInitializationUtility ?16:13
th1ahi jelkner16:16
jfrochesomething else, i am writting new setupdata methods to initialize an instance from csv throught the web... in the first version i won't handle depedencies16:16
jfrochehello th1a16:16
th1aHi jfroche16:16
jfrochei have just send you a mail, i might need the hotel info16:17
th1aI just sent the info.16:17
jfrochethanks !16:17
ignasjfroche: yes inherit that way16:18
ignasand i would prefer some global subscriber "schooltoolinitsubscriber"16:18
ignasinstead of GroupInitSubscriber16:18
ignasbut we'll talk about it when you will clean up the group part16:18
jfrocheok, i was wondering where to put the interface describing such a utility ?16:18
ignasas it is easy to go from the way you are doing it to the getUtilitiesFor16:18
ignasput it in App16:19
jfrocheit will be a marker interfaces right16:19
ignashmm, you should add a method like "initializeWhatever" or something and pass SchoolTool application to it16:20
jfrocheok initialize(app) then16:20
ignasmaybe not initialize, i can't come up with the right name at the moment16:21
jfrocheth1a: reservation is until the 28 ?16:26
th1aYes.  Is that a problem?16:26
jfrocheno it's ok i ll book it for 1 more day there as i am flighing back the 1march16:28
th1aDo you want to do it?16:28
jfrocheif i do it the 22 it's ok no ?16:28
th1aUnless they are a really really busy hotel.16:29
jfrocheyep anyway if not there is others i guess16:30
ignasth1a: forwarded you the flight details16:30
th1aOK... let's get started...16:30
th1ahi ignas.16:30
th1ajfroche: I think it is safe to wait.16:30
jfrocheignas: you are flighing the 28 ?16:31
jfrocheflighing back i mean16:31
ignasflying back, FRI 02MAR 101516:32
th1aSo you'll both need extra days.16:33
th1aNo problem.16:33
th1aI'm not sure if there is anything to do in Dallas...16:33
ignassprint ?16:33
ignasand i think there is :)16:34
th1aGo see where President Kennedy was shot...16:34
th1aTexas Stadium...16:34
th1aAnything else?16:34
ignassome very famous aviation museum16:35
jfrochevisits bush16:35
th1aGetting down to business...16:36
th1aI spent part of last week learning how to take a CSV dump from one MySQL database and load it into another.16:36
th1aI'm remarkably ignorant of the workings of relational databases.16:36
th1aBut it is good to know to understand how people will expect to export and import data into SchoolTool.16:37
th1aThat's my report.16:38
ignasa sec :)16:38
ignasi am still working on lyceum specific person16:39
ignasnearly finished at the moment16:39
ignasdid some planning for the new journal as well16:40
ignasbut hadn't enough time too look at how much work making views would be ...16:40
ignasthat's all16:41
th1aIs the journal a type of gradebook?16:41
ignasgradebook + attendance16:41
ignasthese are very closely related in lithuania16:41
th1aYes.  Functionally, they often are in the US, when they are done on paper.16:42
ignasseems like the resource stuff for CanDo is stuck, or have i missed something ?16:42
ignasi mean - no news in there16:42
th1aThat's what I'm trying to find out.16:42
th1aI'm ready to start focusing on that.16:43
th1aWith a little effort I'm sure we can have a good set of requirements.16:43
th1aI just sent out an email to the cando list about it.16:44
th1aAnd I'm chatting with Welsh later today.16:44
th1ajfroche: What have your been up to?16:45
jfrochei customized initialization of groups16:45
jfrocheas jacqmain dont need clercks16:45
jfrochei am working on imports now16:46
jfrochei have a simple inherited Person16:46
jfrochei stopped playing with ldap16:46
jfrochesend a mail to Jens but i don't have news there16:47
jfrocheNicolas is ill now but promise me that he ll provide me the modified version of the jacqmain plans by the end of this week...16:47
th1aOK.  What are you working on this week?16:48
jfrochei discovered the happiness of cyclic imports16:48
jfrochei am working on import throught the web16:48
jfrocheas they will need to import their data from the other software16:48
jfrocheand dont want them to dive on the file system for that16:48
jfroche(csv import)16:49
th1aWe already do some importing TTW.16:49
jfrocheyou cant provide the csv file TTW16:50
th1aSo you want to be able to select the file TTW.16:52
jfrocheyes i select the setupdata utility, provide the csv file TTW16:52
jfrocheand do the import16:52
th1aAh.  OK.16:53
th1asetupdata is sort of my creation... or rather, my bastardization of alga's sampledata module.16:55
jfrocheit's working well, just have to provide a few more methods16:56
th1aSo my priority is to get these requirements in shape for resource booking.  I want to be able to hit the ground running with that.16:56
ignasyes, that would be nice16:57
th1aDon't you want to spend the first four days brainstorming, ignas?  ;-)16:57
ignashmm, nope ;)16:58
th1aOK.  That's pretty much all I've got.16:58
th1aAnything else?16:58
ignasthe time of the next meeting will be?16:59
th1aNext Monday.16:59
th1aI don't have another dentist appointment.17:00
th1aNo cavities.17:00
th1aOK.  So next week we'll review more detailed requirements for resource management.17:02
th1aBang on them before we get to Dallas.17:02
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* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:05
myeatmanhey! someone else is on!17:05
th1amyeatman: What's up?17:06
myeatmannm are we the only ones here?17:07
th1aThere are 16 users here.17:07
th1aNot all are human.17:07
myeatmanoh cool17:08
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jelknerth1a: the meeting is 11:30, yes?18:08
th1aUm... 9:30.18:08
th1aAnyhow, what's on your mind, jelkner?18:09
jelkner14:30 it thought18:09
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jelknerI've been calling aelkner, wdickers, and Lumiere to get them to attend18:10
jelknerI wanted them to get back to you about the user stories for resource management18:11
jelknerLumiere and aelkner worked on that on Saturday18:11
aelknerYes, I'm waiting to hear from Jason regarding some user stories.18:11
jelknerdwelsh is working on his own version of the stories18:12
jelknerhe is going to grab screen shots of what we are using now18:12
jelknerand put them on a web site18:12
th1aOK.  Good.18:12
jelknerI think another goal should be to get feature requests entered into launchpad18:13
jelknerso we establish a modis operandi18:13
jelkneri'll continue to bug welsh and lumiere until that happens18:13
jelkner(that's my job, after all, to be a pest ;-)18:14
jelknerth1a: that's all i have18:15
jelkneranything else?18:15
aelknerI already worked with Jason to reword what he had, but there's lots more to do.18:15
th1ajelkner: We need a good draft by Monday.18:15
th1aTo review at next week's meeting.18:15
th1aAre welsh and lumiere coming?18:15
jelkneri had hoped lumiere would18:16
jelknerdwelsh and i have another meeting at 12:15 pm18:16
jelknerso he will not be18:16
jelknerhe said he was going to call you on the phone18:16
jelknerin any case, i'll see him at 12:1518:16
jelkneraelkner: can you and lumiere get this done by monday?18:17
th1aI mean, to PyCon?18:17
jelknerlumiere is coming18:17
jelknerhe will arrive sunday morning and stay until tuesday morning18:17
aelknerDepends on Jason's availability.18:17
* jelkner tried to call lumiere18:18
* jelkner tries to call lumiere18:18
LumiereI have my tickets to come18:20
LumiereI arrive 5pm sunday18:20
Lumiereleave 11:30 tuesday18:20
aelknerLumiere: have you had a chance to draw up what we talked about?18:21
jelknerLumiere: th1a would like user stories ready by this monday's schooltool meeiting18:21
jelkneris that doable?18:21
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* jelkner is waiting for a reply to his query from lumiere...18:25
aelknerYou should speel his handle with the capital so that he gets a beep.18:26
jelkneraelkner: i did when i asked the question18:26
jelknerand you did too18:26
jelkneri'll take this up with dwelsh when i see him in 1/2 hour18:26
aelknerLumiere, are you there?18:27
jelkneri think the power just went out at ACC18:27
jelknertheir phones are not working now18:28
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jelknerok, i'm going to log out18:29
jelknercya all later...18:29
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Lumierewe lost connection18:33
aelknerth1a: as you know, Will and I made some code changes to both chesty and tinyzis to get acks to work.  Is there any reason I can't seem to commit changes to tinyzis?  I thought you gave me access.18:34
th1aOh, let me check.18:34
th1aOK you should be able to do it now.18:35
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aelknerWe added some logging to help us debug, so you'll notice that when you run it.  I'd like to keep those log messages in and maybe even add more in the future.  We could change them to only be at level, "debug," but they are helpful.18:39
th1aDid you update the tests in TinyZIS?18:39
aelknerThe tests seemed to be broken before we got to changing the code, but we didn't worry about that because we had the science fair to worry about.18:40
aelknerWould you like to look at that together ow?18:40
aelknerLumiere: are you there now?18:41
th1aWe should release 0.2.1 at PyCon.18:42
th1aWe can fix it then.18:42
aelknerWe could.18:42
th1aOK, I have to go apply for a new passport.18:43
Lumierearguing it with welsh18:59
ignasarguing what? :)19:00
Lumiereresource scheduling19:00
ignasif it's about resource booking, could you argue in writing please ;)19:00
Lumierewe are19:00
Lumiereok, so
Lumiereis where I have started19:01
ignassaw that19:02
Lumierethat's the first major use case I see19:02
LumiereI've convinced welsh it's right finally XD19:02
ignasbut it seems too specific in some places, i mean do you absolutely need that workflow, or you want to be able to perform the actions with all the information about resources you want to book visible ...19:03
Lumierethe workflow can be tweaked, but it's about right19:03
Lumierewe need to be able to ascertain what the need of the teacher is at that time19:04
Lumierefor the most part, a teacher comes in saying "I need a lab for my english class period 4"19:04
Lumiereso they come in knowing a bunch of information19:05
Lumierethat we just need to ask for19:05
ignasyes, indeed19:05
ignasand they are not using schooltool for calendaring, yes ?19:05
Lumierethey are... but the idea here is that they need a room19:06
ignasi know19:06
Lumiereother then the one they need for the classroom19:06
Lumierefor a day19:06
ignasand they now precise time19:06
Lumiereor a small number of days19:06
Lumierefor a project they're doing with the clas19:06
ignashmm, so it's not for "period 4", it's "period 4 any day this week"19:06
Lumiereit's for period 419:07
Lumierebut we have to show a range of days19:07
ignasdo we ?19:07
Lumiereto let them see the options available to them19:07
Lumiereyes, because the rooms could all be taken they day they want19:07
ignascould be19:07
Lumiereand they need to reserve in advance usually19:07
Lumieretake a look at the screenshots19:08
ignascan't access the url :/19:08
Lumiere*fixes internal url*19:08
aelknerLumiere:  I wish you had put my name in a message so I knew you were back.  I was away and didn't know.19:08
ignasso you have a particular system in mind, not a set of requirements, yes?19:09
LumiereI wrote that system, and I hate it with a passion19:09
Lumierebecause it is hard to use and completely inflexible19:10
ignasinflexible ?19:10
Lumiereyea, you can't sign out a lab for a period of time19:10
Lumiereif you had a club or something that needed it19:10
Lumiereyou can't sign a resource out for a class to use their whole year either (timetable)19:10
ignashmm, maybe you could come up with a set of such requirements instead of precise workflows?19:11
Lumiereworking on that19:11
Lumierehttp://www.careercenter.aps/cando/resource_mgmt/resourcemgmt_userstories_2-13-07.htm is something dwelsh wrote19:11
Lumierethat I am editing now19:11
ignasbecause in such case i could think about how to do it while reusing most of the things we have ...19:11
Lumiereand yea19:11
ignasin schooltool that is19:11
Lumiereediting again19:11
ignasno need to19:12
ignasfound it on my own ;)19:12
LumiereI have an update19:12
Lumierethat I'll upload in a minute19:12
Lumierethat's a little more sane19:12
Lumierebasically it is just adding onto the existing idea of resources19:12
Lumiereto make it easier to use19:13
ignasexisting where?19:13
ignasschooltool or the system you wrote ?19:13
Lumierethe system I wrote has no idea about resources19:14
ignasi see19:15
Lumiereit's just handwritten db stuff19:15
ignasand one more request ... could you mark the "essential" requirements in some way19:15
Lumiereit's not really a system at all but a hack to give teachers something they needed19:15
ignasbecause with the amount of usecases we will not be able tu fulfill everything during the sprint ....19:15
LumiereI am going to copy all the resource management stuff to trac19:16
ignaslike BAR CODES, i am not sure we will even have something like that during sprint to test ...19:16
Lumierebar codes is not going to make it to sprint19:16
Lumierewe both like the idea for our use19:16
Lumierebut it isn't in the core of this19:16
Lumiereand it requires local software/work to make it happen19:17
Lumiereit can't be just in schooltool19:17
Lumiereunless you wrote some sort of xpi/activex thingy to connect to a barcode scanner19:17
Lumierejust a note, I will get kicked out in about 30 minutes19:18
LumiereArlington County Public Schools are closing for the snow event19:19
ignasok, 30 minutes is a lot of time :)19:19
ignashave you worked with schooltool calendar ?19:19
ignasas a user19:19
Lumierea little19:20
Lumieredoes it have week/month views?19:20
Lumierei see them19:21
ignasit would be nice if you would try out the current schooltool resoucrce booking19:21
Lumierethe week view is hard to get to19:21
LumiereI have19:21
ignashard to get to ?19:21
ignashow ?19:21
Lumiereseems to get a week view I first have to see the month view19:21
Lumiereanyways... the problem I have with resource scheduling as it is in schooltool19:22
ignashmm, maybe CanDo is skinning schooltool heavily19:22
Lumiereit is19:22
Lumierebut I am looking at a clean svn of schooltool19:22
Lumierewith devmode on19:22
ignashmm, 4 buttons with modes should be in the upper left corner of the screen19:22
ignasunless devmode gadget is obscuring them19:22
Lumiereit may be19:23
Lumierethe problem with resource scheduling is that there is no differentiation of a timetabled resourced and a 1 time use resource19:23
ignasyou mean ?19:23
Lumierethe example case should be "the teacher of history 201 section 5 (whatever identifier you want for that) needs to use a computer lab for her class for a day"19:24
Lumierethat isn't easily understood now19:24
Lumierein fact I don't know that it is possible19:24
Lumiereyou can tie a resource to a class19:25
ignaslet me explain19:25
ignasnormally - you go to the calendar of the teacher19:25
Lumierewhich is good... it is a usecase for resource scheduling19:25
ignasclick on the "class event" you want to schedule the resource for19:25
ignasadding a filter to only show one type of the resource is easy (but now there is no way)19:26
ignasgo to the booking view19:26
ignasand see if resources you need are free to use19:26
ignasif not - you see who is booking them19:26
ignaswhat we could add is - a button to go back and fourth through meetings19:27
ignasin the resource booking view19:27
ignaswhich is not as convenient but might do at first19:27
ignaslater - list the next meeting the resource will be available, or a grid that you draw in the trac wiki19:28
ignasmore complicated but indeed more convenient ...19:28
Lumierethis is actually good for one of my use cases which is making just a randomally scheduled event with a resource19:28
Lumierealthough some of the workflow of the usecase on the wiki is useful here19:29
Lumierethe idea that you want to filter down to a 'type' of resource19:29
Lumierelisting 100 or 1000 resources is a really bad thing19:29
ignasyes, the view needs some love ;)19:29
ignasa lot probably19:30
Lumierethat's most of what we should work on19:30
ignasit even has no paging ...19:30
Lumiereif all we did was add info to resources19:30
Lumiereto make them fully functional19:30
Lumiereand add some workflow to registering for a resource on an event19:31
LumiereI'd say the sprint was successful19:31
ignasfixing these things is easy, the difficult part will be making resources of different kinds19:31
ignasand making computers in labs schedulable separately19:31
Lumiereat first19:31
ignaswe don't have any hierarchy for resources ...19:31
ignasnor groups19:31
Lumierewe don't need to focus on it, but we will need it in the future19:31
ignasi see19:31
ignasdo you have trunk running ?19:32
Lumiereand the heirarchy is somewhat important for tracking inventories and seeing the use of the resources19:32
LumiereI think so19:32
ignasyo can look at person container19:32
ignasit's got a filter gadget to filter by person group19:32
ignaswould a set of such controls be good enough for resource booking filtering ?19:32
* ignas is loosing a lot of letters today19:33
Lumiereone of the things I am working to overcome is that I am a computer scientist... and so I do tend to have a view of how something should happen19:33
Lumiereand it isn't always right19:33
aelknerYeh, I suggested to Jason to put things in a more prose-like user story format.19:34
ignaswell - i have an innertion of another kind, I want to reuse as much of existing functionality as possible19:34
LumiereI agree19:34
aelknerignas: just so you know, I'm new to this stuff but have volunteered to help out if I can.19:34
ignascool :)19:35
LumiereI do think very soon the cando skin needs to be brought in as the default schooltool skin19:35
Lumiereit's much more obvious how things work19:35
ignasmaybe, but i am not sure how it would work with pluggability schooltool needs19:35
aelknerIt looks lke I have a lot of catching up to do as you two seem to be far along technically.19:35
LumiereI think the view you get if you click on the groups header and go into a group19:36
aelknerignas: could it be a good idea to have Jason step back for a moment and pretend to not know the technical stuff and just write up user stories.19:37
Lumiereand see the members (can then select the resource)19:37
Lumierewould be a good thing19:37
aelknerI could help wth that more than the technical stuff for now.19:37
ignasLumiere: not sure i understood your last 2 sentences, sorry19:37
Lumiereif you are on a schooltool-trunk instance19:38
Lumiereunder navigation there's a groups link19:38
LumiereI think that would work for resource types19:39
Lumiereif instead of members19:39
aelknerHow can I get a schooltool trunk instance of my own?19:39
Lumiereyou got the resources matching that19:39
Lumiereaelkner: grab the svn19:39
Lumiereand install?19:39
LumiereI dunno if that is visible19:39
ignasLumiere: i understand, yet - it might be difficult to implement :/19:39
Lumiereit may19:39
Lumierebut it is desperately needed19:39
ignasso you need resources grouped19:40
Lumieremy end goal is that we only show 10 or fewer resources19:40
Lumiereto a teacher trying to reserve19:40
ignasthis can be solved differently19:40
ignasclick on Persons19:40
ignascan you see the "All groups" dropdown19:41
LumiereI do not19:41
ignastrunk ?19:41
LumiereI thought so19:41
* ignas goes to screenshot19:41
ignasoh :/19:42
ignasdemographics :/19:42
ignasok, different place19:42
LumiereUpdated to revision 6656.19:42
Lumierelemme make19:42
ignasi know, sorry19:42
Lumiereand restart19:42
ignasmy mistake19:42
ignasno need to :)19:42
ignasgo to a group19:42
ignasand click edit members19:42
Lumierethe add members interface would be good19:43
ignasyou can see the "All groups" now19:43
ignasso even though you don't have a list of groups to click on19:43
ignasyou still only see 10 items at most19:43
Lumiereand the interface could be simplfied for Resources19:44
ignasand can select different types of persons19:44
Lumierebecause you shouldn't need to search it19:44
Lumiereyou should just need to select the type you need19:44
Lumierethat's reusable19:44
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Lumierehi jfroche19:44
LumiereI have a feeling I may be about to be kicked out19:45
ignasgood luck19:45
aelknerLumiere: do you want to meet later today?19:45
Lumierethe school closed just a minute ago19:45
aelknerA good time for you?19:45
Lumiereaelkner: 30-45 minutes?19:45
aelknerFrom now?19:45
Lumierefrom when I leave19:46
Lumierewhich I think will be 10 minutes from now19:46
ignasi have to go as well19:46
ignaswas nice talking to you19:46
LumiereI think that was positive motion :)19:46
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aelknerIt sounded like a lot of progress understanding what schooltool already does.19:47
aelknerAnd ignas seems confident it shouldn't be hard to make it work.19:47
Lumiereand he knows what can be reused better19:47
Lumierewhat he showed19:47
aelknerI still would like to see a more prose-like set of user stores.19:47
Lumiereis very much something we could use19:47
LumiereI'll work on them with you this afternoon19:48
aelknerI also need to catch up with what you guys were talking about.  I'm woefully behind on the technical side.19:48
aelknerFor instance, what would be the command to checkout the trunk?  svn co ?????19:48
Lumiereif you talk to jelkner... let him know the schoolsystem's phone system is partially down19:49
Lumierewhich is why he couldn't call us19:50
LumiereI am detaching19:50
Lumierebe back about 1:30-1:4519:50
aelknerok.  see you then.19:50
Lumiereyour afternoon appointment may be canceled with linda? her class has been canceled19:50
aelknerIt is cancelled.19:51
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pcarduneth1a, what is the normal time for the tuesday meetings?20:02
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Lumiereaelkner: hi21:16
aelknerthere you are21:16
Lumieremy mom was home when I got in21:17
aelknerCan we talk on the phone?21:17
Lumierehmm yea21:17
Lumierelemme call you21:17
Lumiereit's free for me21:17
Lumierethis isn't letting call out21:20
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dwelshth1a:  you there?21:37
Lumierego home21:38
dwelshcall me21:38
Lumiereon phone with aelkner21:39
th1adwelsh: I'm back.21:58
dwelshcan we talk now?22:02
dwelshhome or mobile22:02
FujitsuHi everyone.22:03
FujitsuI'm wanting to get involved with SchoolTool development (I have a lot of Python experience, and have been following pcardune's Zope 3 class), but a new checkout of trunk won't build cleanly (I've tried on a few systems).22:04
th1aWhat's the error.22:05
FujitsuFirstly, it grabs the wrong version of the zc.catalog error.22:06
FujitsuWhen I extract that manually, I get Zope to build, but the SchoolTool test and run targets won't run because it can't fine zope.mimetype (I do have libicu-dev installed).22:06
Fujitsu*zc.catalog egg22:07
Lumierethat's the current environment setup instructions22:07
Lumiereth1a: can we get the ones on the site updated?22:08
FujitsuI was able to run a fresh checkout last week some time.22:08
FujitsuIt still gets a newer version of zc.catalog than hurry.query wants.22:17
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th1aLumiere: Well, it depends on how complex you want them to be... perhaps I need to put both options up.23:24
th1aAll that path stuff seems unnecessary to me, considering how much more complex it makes the whole thing look.23:25
th1aI guess I need an explanation of why it is necessary.23:26
Lumiereask ignas?23:44
th1aDon't the instructions on the site work?  I tried them recently on Feisty and it seemed fine.23:45
th1aAs long as I used Python 2.4 consistently.23:45
Lumierenot sure23:46
Lumiereand... resource scheduling use cases draft:
Lumiereyou can get to it from by clicking ResourcePackage23:49
aelknerth1a: I just tried following the instructions on the site, and it crashes in make test.  error: Installed distribution zc.catalog 1.1dev-r72452 conflicts with requirement zc.catalog==0.1.123:51
th1aDoes that not happen with ignas's instructions?23:52
aelknerHaven't tried.23:53

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