IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2007-02-05

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Bhaskarignas, what is going new on schooltool06:47
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jfroche_ignas: hello there! i need to register 2 new tool for ldap, where should i do this ?16:03
ignas2 new tool ?16:03
jfroche_1 for the connection to ldap, 1 for the authentication with ldap16:04
ignaswhat are you calling "tool"16:06
jfroche_uhm sorry tool is z216:06
ignasmake a branch16:07
ignasand for now - replace old utilities with new ones16:07
ignasor add a new module schooltool/src/schooltool/ldap16:07
ignasin that branch16:08
ignasand play around with zcml overrides16:08
jfroche_using 2 new eggs for that16:08
jfroche_ldappas & ldapadapter16:09
jfroche_don't know how we will configure this in the setup.eggs.py16:09
jfroche_to give user the choice16:09
ignasjust add them as a dependency16:18
ignasin the ldap branch at the moment16:18
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* th1a gets wireless back up just in the nick of time.16:28
jfroche_hell th1a16:28
th1ahi ignas, jfroche_, jinty.16:28
jfroche_sorry for bad branching :(16:28
jfroche_i have just made a mistake while branching trunk16:29
th1aOh, I see.16:30
th1aSo, things should be settling into a more normal rhythm here.16:31
th1aLast week was report card generation week at the school here, which always leads to much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments.16:31
th1aIt is about 1 day of work and three days of very intense procrastination.16:31
th1aAnd we got the first round of grandparent visits out of the way this weekend.16:32
jfroche_th1a: what are you teaching in fact ?16:32
th1aSo I'm feeling relatively focused.16:32
th1ajfroche_: I'm not teaching anything anymore, but I still manage all the assessments for my old school.16:33
th1aAnd each quarter I make jinty set up a SchoolTool instance and I try to get it in a usable state for them.16:33
th1aI get very depressed about the fact that I can't just get a properly working SchoolTool working for them on an ongoing basis.16:34
jfroche_they have different usecases ?16:34
th1aThe assessments are similar to CanDo, but a bit more complex.16:35
th1aActually, what happened this time around was more that I didn't realize I had an incomplete data set until I had everything set up, at which point I didn't really have enough time to get all the right data into SchoolTool,16:36
th1aso I punted and just used spreadsheets.16:36
th1aAlso, we don't have a good system for handling comments on the report cards.16:37
th1aThe interesting bit this time around is that I have a complete database export of the school's digital portfolio system (in MySQL).16:38
th1aSo I'm going to spend some time working with that this week.16:38
th1aI'm remarkably inexperienced with relational databases.16:38
th1aSo enough about me...16:39
th1aWhat have you guys been up to?16:39
th1ajfroche_: ?16:39
jfroche_th1a: playing with z3 ldap16:39
th1a(before I forget, you need to send me an invoice, jfroche_)16:40
jfroche_i am moving my ldap games into schooltool yet16:40
jfroche_th1a: you got news from Ian ?16:41
th1aWe exchanged some emails earlier in the week.16:42
jfroche_was he kind of happy of the meeting ?16:42
th1aSounded fine to me.16:42
th1aDid he seem happy to you?16:42
jfroche_couldnt really know if it was really ok for him16:43
th1aHe's a big boy.16:43
jfroche_eventhought he told me it was good16:43
th1aI think he is capable of figuring out what he was getting into.16:43
th1aHe came to me.16:43
th1aHe's not actually a customer... he's a contractor, so I don't need him to be happy ;-)16:44
th1aAs long as they can get the software done.16:44
th1aAnyhow, how's the LDAP look?16:45
jfroche_martijn's work around it will be really usefull16:45
jfroche_authentication won't be painfull i think16:45
jfroche_but i don't see yet how to store Person attributes in ldap16:46
th1aDo you know how to look up an arbitrary schema in LDAP?16:46
jfroche_from python you mean ?16:47
th1aI mean, do you know how to get the data you'll need to do Person attributes?16:48
jfroche_i can access an ldap object and its attributes yes16:49
th1aSo where are you stuck?16:50
th1aMaking a Person subclass?  Or whether or not to make a Person subclass?16:50
jfroche_i am not using Person right now, just writing in the authenticationutility16:51
jfroche_to use ldap for authentication16:51
th1ajfroche_: Anything else?  Did you talk to Nicolas about the development plan?16:53
jfroche_th1a: he told me he would send me changes about it but still no news16:54
jfroche_sending him again a mail16:54
th1aIt seems pretty straightforward.16:54
th1aAny other news?16:56
jfroche_nothing else no16:56
th1aOK.  ignas?16:57
ignasfinishing up person refactoring stuff, and working on lyceum specific person at the same time16:57
ignasoh and i got lyceum and schooltool checkouts identical16:57
ignasas in - lyceum branch only has lyceum add on and that's it16:58
ignasthe rest of the code is untouched16:58
th1aHow does that work?16:58
* th1a going to look at the code...16:59
ignasi have learned how to disable viewlets16:59
ignasso i can disable links to views lyceum does not need through overrides.zcml16:59
ignaswith different person class i could make permission changes with a more specific adapter17:00
ignasand with some refactoring that i did when we began using layers it was quite easy to create a lyceum specific site.zcml17:00
th1aSo all the changes are in one place in the source tree?17:01
ignasand the makefile got 2 lines :)17:01
th1aAh, I see it now.17:01
ignasto make it easier for me ;)17:01
th1aWell, that's pretty important, really.17:01
th1aI've driven myself insane scattering modifications around the source tree.17:02
ignasi have made "schooltool manager" person factory specific on the weekend17:02
th1aCan you explain that a bit more?17:02
ignaswell lyceum person, schoolbell person and demographics person are a bit different17:03
ignasschoolbell person only wants a title17:03
ignasdemographics person wants first_name and last_name in the nameinfo attribute17:03
ignasand lyceum person has first_name and last_name attributes in the Person object directly17:03
ignasso schooltool app doesn't know which attributes must be set when creating the manager user17:04
ignasso now all factory utilities must have a method that returns a proper manager user17:04
ignaswith schoolbell person having "Schooltool Manager" as the title, demographics person with it's nameinfo set up properly17:05
th1aThat seems a reasonable workaround.17:05
th1aAny other news from Vilnius?17:07
ignasnot really, i am looking at the quarterly plan trying to fit in the new data i have collected, but haven't finished doing that yet ...17:07
ignasth1a: what dates should Aiste book plane for ?17:08
th1aOK.  We'll probably bounce some emails around this week to discuss the goals for PyCon.17:08
ignasand i'll want the details for the trip, etc.17:09
th1aI'm arriving in Dallas the evening of the 22nd.  Leaving the evening of the 1st.17:09
th1aWe're staying in the conference hotel...17:10
th1aDallas/Addison Marriott Quorum by the Galleria.17:10
th1aI just got one room with two double beds, so hopefully that'll be ok.17:10
th1aHopefully nobody has the jimmy legs.17:11
ignashmm, i guess we'll have to work out all the details with Aiste tomorrow  (she's not in the office at the moment)17:12
th1aYou just need a flight.17:12
ignasVilnius to Dallas ?17:12
th1aCheck on the PyCOn site for more details.17:13
th1aThere are two airports in Dallas.17:13
th1aI flew into the one with cheaper flights.  I'm not sure which is closer to the hotel.17:13
ignasand all the participation in the conference stuff?17:15
th1aI still need to register you, but that's one step.17:16
th1aI'll take care of it.17:16
th1aOK... anything else?  I'm looking forward to being more focused and responsive this week.17:19
ignasthat's it i think17:20
th1aOK.  Have a good week.17:21
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:21
jfroche_ignas: is it possible to override a subscriber ?17:24
jfroche_is it possible to remove a subscriber ?17:24
jfroche_so we will have 2 utilities for authentication17:26
jfroche_SchoolToolAuthenticationUtility & SchoolToolLDAPAuthenticationUtility17:26
jfroche_ignas: do i need to declare registerTestSetup in __init__ to run tests ?17:56
th1aignas, jfroche_:  I just talked to jelkner on the phone about goals for PyCon.17:58
th1aThey've got a bunch of specs for resource management that they want to focus on.17:58
ignasjfroche_: __init__ of what ?17:58
jfroche_ignas: the ldap package17:59
ignasdon't think so17:59
th1aIs that ok for you guys or is there something else we need todo?18:00
th1aAny big refactoring we need instead?18:01
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th1ahi wdickers.18:01
wdickersgood morning18:01
ignasth1a: i need a lot of things done, but the question is whether anyone there can substantially help me with it18:03
jfroche_th1a: i will need the help of ignas to refactor different things for ldap support i think18:03
th1aYes, I'm assuming you and Ian & co will be doing some work on LDAP.18:04
ignasjfroche_: :D kind of inverse, it's not me who wants to refactor stuff for LDAP18:04
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th1aHopefully Ian's guys will be doing most of that work once we help them plan & design it.18:04
th1aignas: Yes, it is unlikely that you could get much help with deep, hard stuff.18:05
th1aResource management sounds good to me.18:05
ignasth1a: not deep hard stuff, there is a lot of shallow and easy stuff18:05
ignasbut there is no point in doing shallow stuff in a sprint18:06
th1aThe advantage of resource management is that we're about 75% done with it.18:06
th1aIt just needs a push.18:06
th1aWhich is what we can do in a sprint.18:06
ignasi'll want as much information about how archiving of data works in usable SIS18:07
th1aOh, yeah.18:07
th1aThat's right.18:07
th1aI'll suggest that back to jelkner.18:07
ignasmaybe they could post as much of the specs as possible somewhere18:07
th1aThey're somewhere...18:07
th1aOK, sending jelkner an email...18:08
ignashow many programmers will be focusing on that ?18:08
ignasresource booking i mean18:08
th1aHm... pcardune is coming, and he's really productive.18:09
th1aaelkner is coming, but will probably mostly be learning.18:09
th1ajelkner was saying that they might bring an extra developer if we do resource management (the one who has been working on the specs)18:10
th1aI'm not sure how many other people are coming.  I'll ask.18:10
jfroche_th1a: is it possible to get people that worked previously on schooltool to help for a while ?18:11
th1aIn what sense?18:11
th1aAt the sprint or in general?18:12
jfroche_at the sprint i mean18:12
jfroche_as most of them will be around18:12
th1aI don't have any money to pay them, but I'd certainly love to drag them in ;-)18:12
ignashow much time have we got allocated?18:15
th1aWell, we'll be there a week, part of which will be during PyCon itself, but we'll need to squeeze in as much work as we can then.18:17
ignashmm, with a good spec I and pcardune can do quite a lot18:22
ignasthough i am worried about differences between cando schooltool and schooltool trunk18:22
ignasa bit18:22
th1aOK, look at it this way... if we work on terms/archiving, we're pretty much writing specs and doing design for a long time.18:23
ignasth1a: do you have a link to the spec?18:23
ignasth1a: i don't want specs and designs for a long time, i want to know how others are solving this complex problem ...18:24
ignashonestly - i just don't know that much about how real life SIS should work, and what do people expect from one18:25
ignasand it is a different thing from how should it be implemented18:25
ignasi only care about how it should look like from users perspective18:25
ignasi can do the technical part either alone, or with some help from my coworkers18:26
th1aBut also, it might be easier to work out your term/archiving requirements with the school than with everyone else at the sprint.18:27
ignasbut as they don't have a SIS at the school18:27
th1aI find this on resource management, but I thought there was more:
ignasthey don't know about possible solutions either, so having some information about how others so it would help me and them as well18:28
th1aOK, so that's something we'll discuss but doesn't need to be the focus.18:28
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aelknerth1a: are you there?18:29
th1aaelkner: I am here.18:30
aelknerWill and I have a question about chesty:18:30
aelknerwdickers: I'm not finding it, could you explain the problem to Tom?18:31
wdickersalright. In of chesty, the sendAck() function does not call self.postAndProcess()18:32
wdickersThis means that self.response.message is built but never sent.18:32
wdickersBut since not all acks want a response, I'm guessing we need a special postAndProcess for acks?18:32
th1aThat is an area that needs to be fixed.18:33
aelknerAny suggestions?18:34
ignasth1a: hmm, not much at the moment, are they going to be discussing the spec on irc or email some time before the sprint?18:35
th1aI can't say I've memorized the code and spec.18:35
th1aignas: I'll see.18:35
aelknerI mean, we can put the postAndProcess call in where you left it out, but it would be nice to know what you were thinking when you left it out.18:36
th1aWhatever I was thinking was wrong.18:37
aelknerThat's helpful. :)18:38
th1aTinyZIS has a similar bug, too.18:38
th1aIt stops Acking too quickly.18:38
wdickersbasically we just need a postAndProcess that doesn't expect a response for Final Acks or Immediate Acks, right?18:38
wdickersor are we acking those acks?18:38
wdickerswell whatever the case, we need to put something that stops the acking after a certain point18:39
aelknerWe'll deal with that tonight.18:40
wdickersokay. See you guys18:40
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aelknerTom, if you don't have any thoughts on this, we can just try stuff out until it works.18:41
th1aIf you look on the TinyZIS side of things, there are a few cases when it doesn't respond to an HTTP request with an ACK, and it should always do that.18:41
aelknerMeaning we shouldn't change that, right?18:42
aelknerOr di you mean that we SHOULD change htat becuase that's where the problem is?18:42
th1aNo... I'm saying it should always send a response to any HTTP request, and sometimes it doesn't; thus those cases need to be changed.18:42
aelknerBut also chesty has the problem of not sending acks.  If you don't have any thoughts on that, we will be changing it to send the acks.18:44
th1aI will look at the code again.  I don't have it memorized.18:45
th1aIt isn't right though.18:45
aelknerLook at line 42 of chesty's  That's where it fails to call postAndProcess.18:46
th1aOK, so basically, I think you just want to call postAndProcess, but TinyZIS also has to be slightly changed to respond to them as well.18:51
th1aIt isn't ACKing because I realized that TinyZIS wouldn't respond to the ACK's and I didn't have time to deal with it.18:51
aelknerI added the postAndPRocess call, and tinyzis responded with a "Generic Error (event reporting and processing)"18:54
th1auh huh.18:54
aelknerThat exception is raised in only one place, getMessage.18:58
aelknerwhich is called from processAck in
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jfroche_ignas: what's the difference between difference between zope.component.provideUtility() & site.getSiteManager().registerUtility() ?19:21
ignaslocal vs global i think19:21
ignasprovideUtility - global utility19:22
ignasand the register one is probably registering it for site19:22
ignasor it might be just different interfaces for the same operation19:22
ignasi'd look at the source code19:22
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ignasth1a: the hotel is reserved 2007-02-22 to 2007-03-01, but you will be in there only 02-22 evening, yes?19:46
th1aignas: yes.19:52
ignasi should aim either for 02-22 evening or 02-23 ?19:55
ignasor i can just come on 02-22 and there will be no problems19:55
ignass/i can/can i/19:56
th1aI would just come on the 22nd.20:04
ignasand i must move out of the hotel in the morning 03-01?20:07
th1aYes... at this point.  But perhaps I can add a day if it makes sense for you.20:08
th1aI'd rather have you stay 'til the second than leave early on the first.20:08
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jfroche_good night20:13
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lisppaste5wjohnsto pasted "Testpaste" at
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