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| Bhaskar | thla: goodmorning sir | 05:50 |
|---|---|---|
| Bhaskar | thla: any new news about schooltool | 05:52 |
| th1a | Bhaskar: I am, in fact, writing an email on your behalf at this very moment. | 05:53 |
| Bhaskar | thla:well sir | 05:54 |
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| Bhaskar | thla: are u BG sir | 07:22 |
| th1a | Bhaskar: Am I BG? | 07:38 |
| Bhaskar | thla:well | 07:40 |
| Bhaskar | thla:i am translating schoolbell now | 07:41 |
| th1a | Bhaskar: You really don't want to bother with SchoolBell. | 07:41 |
| Bhaskar | thla: sorry ? you mean... | 07:42 |
| th1a | SchoolTool. | 07:43 |
| th1a | Focus on SchoolTool. | 07:43 |
| Bhaskar | thla: well our first priority is for schooltool | 07:44 |
| Bhaskar | thla: i have translate schooltool and download .op and .mo file from launchpad, then i make update-translation but i could not get success to view school tool in nepaly completely, only partially , why | 07:45 |
| th1a | Are you running SchoolTool from a svn checkout? | 07:53 |
| th1a | Or from apt-get? | 07:53 |
| Bhaskar | thla:ya | 07:57 |
| th1a | yes, apt-get? | 07:57 |
| Bhaskar | thla: sudo apt-get install subversion | 08:00 |
| Bhaskar | thla: sudo apt-get install build-essential | 08:01 |
| th1a | Bhaskar: But you're running SchoolTool from subversion? | 08:02 |
| Bhaskar | thla: i have done all this command | 08:02 |
| Bhaskar | thla:no no | 08:03 |
| Bhaskar | thla:i run sudo apt-get install build-essential | 08:13 |
| Bhaskar | thla:no use of subversion | 08:14 |
| th1a | Ignas said he thought you'd done the translation for the current development version of SchoolTool (from subversion) and tried to apply it to the version of SchoolTool in Ubuntu, which is much older. | 08:15 |
| Bhaskar | thla: i use schooltool-2006.0-alpha2 | 08:20 |
| th1a | Hm... | 08:22 |
| th1a | You should probably use a subversion checkout. | 08:22 |
| Bhaskar | thla:please tell me for this package which template be translate in launchpad | 08:23 |
| th1a | As far as I know, you should use the 2006 template on LaunchPad and a subversion checkout. | 08:23 |
| th1a | That should work, and if it doesn't, we should fix it. | 08:24 |
| Bhaskar | thla:i use template as | 08:30 |
| Bhaskar | SchoolTool Series: 2006 | 08:30 |
| Bhaskar | Translation template "schooltool" | 08:30 |
| th1a | That's the current one, as far as I know. | 08:30 |
| Bhaskar | thla: i think it should work properly for schooltool-2006.0-alpha2 | 08:31 |
| Bhaskar | thla: suggest me how can i do | 08:32 |
| th1a | My suggestion is to try a subversion checkout. | 08:33 |
| th1a | Just in case. | 08:33 |
| Bhaskar | thla: i think i can use template: | 08:38 |
| Bhaskar | SchoolTool Series: main | 08:38 |
| Bhaskar | Translation template "schooltool" | 08:38 |
| Bhaskar | thla: OR | 08:40 |
| Bhaskar | schooltool in Ubuntu Dapper | 08:40 |
| Bhaskar | Translation template "schooltool" | 08:40 |
| Bhaskar | ithla: i use Ubuntu 6.06 LTS | 08:41 |
| th1a | Bhaskar: OK. I have no idea. | 08:42 |
| th1a | I am monolingual. | 08:42 |
| th1a | I don't understand how translation works at all. | 08:42 |
| Bhaskar | thla: please share these events with your team | 08:43 |
| th1a | OK... I'll see if I can get someone to help you out. | 08:44 |
| Bhaskar | thla: Please | 08:44 |
| Bhaskar | thla: there is confusion in launchpad.net , for which template should be used | 08:45 |
| th1a | Yes, I see that. | 08:46 |
| Bhaskar | thla: i think it should be simplified...... | 08:46 |
| Bhaskar | thla: i think backward compactibility should be maintained , i mean newer version of template should support for older one package | 08:47 |
| th1a | At this point, we really don't know what the problem is. | 08:49 |
| Bhaskar | thla: please discuss with your team, there are many confussion in launchpad.net for translation template | 08:50 |
| th1a | Bhaskar: Is it 12:36 PM where you are? | 08:51 |
| Bhaskar | thla: me in office see www.mpp.org.np | 08:52 |
| Bhaskar | thla: in Nepal it is mid day | 08:52 |
| Bhaskar | thla: you can see www.nepalinux.org | 08:53 |
| Bhaskar | thla: we developed Nepalinux | 08:53 |
| th1a | Ah. I see. | 08:53 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 08:53 |
| Bhaskar | thla: we are the team, that starting the revolution in opensource as well localization in Nepal | 08:55 |
| Bhaskar | thla: we developed Nepali unicode, Nepali SMS, Nepali text to speech, Nepali dictionary and many more work | 08:56 |
| Bhaskar | thla: our latest progress is on : schooltool | 08:57 |
| Bhaskar | thla: I am here for Schooltool localization, customization and research for unicade | 08:57 |
| Bhaskar | thla: i am young IT Engineer | 08:58 |
| th1a | I see you've got a lot going on. | 08:59 |
| Bhaskar | thla:well your suggestion and enouragement is valuable to us for further going | 09:08 |
| Bhaskar | thla: have you made schooltool mannual, we are looking to localize for this mannual | 09:12 |
| Bhaskar | thla: please send me schooltool mannual! | 09:13 |
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| Bhaskar | Aiste: have u know schooltool | 09:23 |
| Aiste | Bhaskar: please stop harassing members of this chat | 09:26 |
| Aiste | Ignas clearly explained what you need to do if you want to ask further questions | 09:27 |
| Bhaskar | Aiste: how can i meet with him | 09:28 |
| Aiste | why do you need to meet with him? | 09:28 |
| Bhaskar | Aiste: my intension to encourage the people ,not harass, i think we can share our problem on schooltool in this forum | 09:29 |
| Aiste | yes, but in this case you are harassing | 09:30 |
| Aiste | Ignas has a lot of work to do on Schooltool and he can only participate in constructive discussions | 09:31 |
| Aiste | not the ones like - we need to increase the community, yeah yeah type | 09:31 |
| Aiste | you can share the problems, but it seems that the cultures are quite different and what you consider amiable conversation other people perceive as too invasive and annoying | 09:32 |
| Bhaskar | Aiste: i am also have a lot of work on schooltool, i also trying in constructive work | 09:33 |
| Aiste | so, I'd rather you send emails to the mailing list with constructive questions and suggestions and not try to talk to all the possible people on irc | 09:33 |
| Bhaskar | Aiste: thanks for your suggestion | 09:34 |
| Aiste | you are welcome | 09:36 |
| Bhaskar | Aiste: i am engineer, donot waste time in chating but want to utilise in some context, | 09:49 |
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| Ninno | Hi | 13:12 |
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| aelkner | ignas: ayt? | 18:04 |
| ignas | yes | 18:04 |
| aelkner | have you been looking at chesty, the tinyzis agent lib? | 18:06 |
| ddaa | ignas: how late are you staying online today? | 18:08 |
| ignas | aelkner: no, not really | 18:08 |
| ignas | ddaa: hmm, at least a couple of hours | 18:08 |
| ignas | how much do you need ? | 18:08 |
| aelkner | ok, thatnks anyway. | 18:08 |
| ddaa | I would like to talk with you later about your use cases. | 18:09 |
| ignas | ok | 18:09 |
| ddaa | We are writing a spec right now about the different ways to subscribe to a branch. | 18:09 |
| ddaa | So if we can capture precisely what you need, we'll probably be able to implement exactly that. | 18:10 |
| ddaa | How cool is that? | 18:10 |
| ddaa | (implement in Launchpad) | 18:10 |
| ignas | neat :) | 18:12 |
| ignas | premium service ;) | 18:12 |
| ignas | ddaa: maybe the proposal is available somewhere so i could read what's already in there? | 18:13 |
| ddaa | unfortunately, it's on a Canonical-only wiki | 18:13 |
| ddaa | but anyway, I think it's better not to taint you | 18:13 |
| ddaa | just talk about use cases | 18:14 |
| ddaa | but right now I need to go out buy some camping gear | 18:14 |
| ignas | ok | 18:14 |
| th1a | aelkner: What's up? | 18:23 |
| aelkner | Hey Tom. | 18:24 |
| aelkner | Will and I are looking at the latest on chesty trying to figure out what you're up to. | 18:24 |
| aelkner | After doing the svn up, I tried to run python test.py, but it complains about tlslite.api. Could you please provide instructions on how to get test.py to run? | 18:25 |
| th1a | Oh yeah. | 18:26 |
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| th1a | You need to install tinyzis, which now adds tlslite to your site-packages. | 18:27 |
| wdickers | could you give us the location of the latest tinyzis repository? | 18:28 |
| th1a | Uh... has it moved? | 18:29 |
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| wdickers | no, but the url would be useful, especially chesty's | 18:30 |
| th1a | Doesn't svn co https://svn1.hosted-projects.com/sif/tinyzis/trunk/tinyzis work? | 18:30 |
| aelkner | I did svn co https://svn1.hosted-projects.com/sif/tinyzis which worked | 18:30 |
| wdickers | thanks, and chesty? | 18:31 |
| aelkner | Should I do the trunk only, Tom? | 18:31 |
| th1a | aelkner: It pretty much depends on how much extra stuff you want lying around. | 18:31 |
| aelkner | Ok. | 18:32 |
| th1a | svn co https://svn1.hosted-projects.com/sif/pyagentlib/trunk/chesty | 18:32 |
| wdickers | got them, thanks | 18:33 |
| wdickers | I have a question about the sendAck() in agent.py. All the other send methods invoke postandprocess() but sendAck() does not, why? | 18:34 |
| aelkner | Tom, could you update the tinyzis README.txt with more instruction for installing everything? | 18:34 |
| aelkner | Right now it says, "once you have everythong installed...", but that's assuming the developer knows how to do that. | 18:34 |
| th1a | Because sendAck() doesn't expect a response, I think. | 18:36 |
| wdickers | ah, that makes sense | 18:36 |
| aelkner | python setup.py --help-commands yields a long list of commands, but which one needs to be done. | 18:36 |
| th1a | sudo python setup.py install | 18:36 |
| aelkner | Ok, so that's what needs to go in the README. | 18:37 |
| wdickers | I'm afraid I'm out of time. I will ask Mr. Elkner to install python-xml and tinyzis on maddog, is that all that needs to be done to get it working? | 18:37 |
| th1a | That should do it. | 18:38 |
| aelkner | You should refer to the README after doing a svn up the next time you log in. | 18:38 |
| wdickers | alright, see you two tomorrow | 18:38 |
| aelkner | See you. | 18:38 |
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| aelkner | th1a: are you updating the README.txt file in the tinyzis directory as well as the chesty directory so that we know how to poceed? | 18:40 |
| th1a | I will do it. | 18:40 |
| aelkner | Thanks. | 18:41 |
| aelkner | So after doing the tinyzis install, I can get chesty's test.py to run, but it only outputs two messages. Is that right? | 18:43 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:43 |
| aelkner | Ok. python ftest.py yields an error message: error: (111, 'Connection refused') | 18:45 |
| aelkner | Failed example: agent.sendRegister() | 18:45 |
| th1a | You have to start up a tinyzis instance manually. | 18:46 |
| aelkner | So you're going create a README.txt for chesty as well, right? Please include instructions like that. | 18:47 |
| th1a | Yes, aelkner. | 18:48 |
| aelkner | Ok. I'm happy now. Having run tz-run.py, going back to chesty, ftest.py works. | 18:51 |
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| Ninno | hi | 18:57 |
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| ddaa | ignas: ping | 20:46 |
| ignas | ddaa: pong | 20:47 |
| ddaa | So... I'd like to discuss about what you're going to need from bzr | 20:47 |
| ddaa | to support your workfow | 20:47 |
| ignas | the mailing/coordination part? | 20:48 |
| ddaa | At some point we're going to talk about emails, but I'd like the discussion to be focused on _what_ you do, rather than _how_ you think I could be done with bzr. | 20:48 |
| ignas | ok | 20:48 |
| ignas | as all the branches are in the same svn repository | 20:49 |
| * ddaa listens | 20:49 | |
| ignas | every checking triggers an email to the schooltool-checkins mailing list | 20:49 |
| ignas | reviews are done after the commit by replying to these emails | 20:49 |
| ddaa | so every commit on every branch goes to schoooltool-checkin@, with the diff and commit message? | 20:50 |
| ignas | yes | 20:50 |
| ignas | all developers are subscribed to the list | 20:50 |
| ignas | so everyone can see what other programmers are working on | 20:50 |
| ignas | commits to trunk also trigger buildbot to run all the tests on an up to date trunk | 20:51 |
| ddaa | how does the triggering happen? | 20:51 |
| ddaa | is that a svn post-commit hook, or it's triggered by commit emails, or somehing else? | 20:51 |
| ignas | postcommit hook uses XMLRPC to notify buildbot that there are new changes | 20:52 |
| ignas | buildbot retrieves a more or less clean checkout and runs all the tests on it | 20:52 |
| * ddaa waits for more or an EOF marker | 20:53 | |
| ignas | i can EOF now, or tell you about active branches | 20:54 |
| ignas | :) | 20:54 |
| ddaa | tell me about active branches, please | 20:54 |
| ddaa | what is an "active branch"? | 20:54 |
| ignas | branches that had changes in recent 2-3 months | 20:54 |
| ignas | and will be either worked on or merged to trunk | 20:55 |
| ignas | sooner or later | 20:55 |
| ignas | at the moment we have 3-4 active branches, new-style-navigation (hasn't been touched for a while is very different from schooltool trunk it was branched like 4 months ago and has a lot of new code in it) | 20:55 |
| ignas | lyceum branch - has different config files and a separate src/lyceum directory with lyceum specific code | 20:56 |
| ignas | jfroche's branch (can't recall the school name) - is more or less trunk, but has a small feature being worked on at the moment | 20:56 |
| ignas | and trunk - i am developing changes useful to all schooltool users in it | 20:57 |
| ddaa | The vocation of an active branch is to be merged to trunk? | 20:57 |
| ignas | new-navigation - will be merged to trunk (in 6-12 months) | 20:58 |
| ignas | lyceum and the other school might have some features developed for them that we might want to have in trunk | 20:59 |
| ignas | and everything on trunk should get to lyceum and the other school | 20:59 |
| ignas | but full school branches will not get merged to trunk, only some features might | 20:59 |
| ddaa | So, the "full school" branches are effectively friendly forks? | 21:00 |
| ignas | yes | 21:00 |
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| ddaa | ignas: I do not want to interrupt your flow, so tell me when you expect me to prompt you. | 21:01 |
| ignas | you can do that now | 21:01 |
| ignas | :) | 21:01 |
| ddaa | So, all the people who are actively working on schooltool have svn commit access? Or is there development activity going on outside of the svn? | 21:02 |
| ddaa | (like developers who submit patches to a mailing list) | 21:02 |
| ignas | no, we don't have outside commiters, our QA is too harash for people to work on schooltool without our help | 21:03 |
| ignas | patches have to be worked on by at least one developer 90% of the time | 21:03 |
| ignas | fixing tests | 21:03 |
| ignas | fixing the bug properly | 21:03 |
| ignas | fixing all the instances | 21:03 |
| ignas | etc. | 21:03 |
| ddaa | Okay, I see how DVCS can lower your barrier to entry. | 21:03 |
| * ddaa reads backlog to find more questions | 21:04 | |
| ddaa | So, at the moment, once there is any activity at all, everybody knows through the checkins ML. | 21:05 |
| ignas | yes | 21:05 |
| ignas | at least i am reviewing every single checkin | 21:05 |
| ignas | with only 1 other developer it's fairly easy | 21:05 |
| ddaa | I guess that one thing you expect from switching to bzr is to have more people doing checkins. | 21:05 |
| ignas | i am not sure we will get anyone :) , Zope3 + 90% unit test coverage + code quality standards are making it very difficult to work on schooltool :/ | 21:06 |
| ignas | for other people that is | 21:06 |
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| th1a | ignas: We'll work on evangelism after we've got some schools running. | 21:06 |
| ddaa | So, say you get two other people checking in random broken stuff (at first, until they learn) on their own branch. You would like these commits to go to the same mailing list? | 21:07 |
| ignas | yes, possibly, i want them to have that option | 21:07 |
| ignas | like - registering their branch | 21:07 |
| ignas | so i would get emails | 21:07 |
| ignas | if they want feedback | 21:07 |
| ignas | although they might want to work alone ;) | 21:08 |
| ddaa | You or everybody reading the mailing list? | 21:08 |
| ignas | hmm, a good question, i have learned a lot of things by reading mgedmin's comments on checkins of other programmers too | 21:08 |
| ignas | so having it on a mailing list might be a good idea | 21:09 |
| ignas | . | 21:10 |
| ddaa | Say somebody makes a change _for_ trunk. | 21:10 |
| ddaa | You review it, and say "good". | 21:10 |
| ddaa | Then it gets through buildbot. | 21:10 |
| ddaa | If buildbot finds some errors | 21:10 |
| ddaa | What happens next? | 21:10 |
| ddaa | BTW, did I describe the process for committing to trunk properly? | 21:11 |
| ignas | nope | 21:11 |
| ignas | some one commits to trunk | 21:11 |
| ignas | buildbot starts chugging | 21:11 |
| ignas | buildbot fails, sends an email that peter just broke the trunk | 21:12 |
| ignas | i wake up and review his checkin, comment on it, and yell at him for not running tests before commiting | 21:12 |
| ignas | then I either fix it, or give him the possibility to fix it himself | 21:13 |
| ddaa | Would you prefer if it was not possible to commits something to trunk that breaks the test suite? | 21:13 |
| ddaa | Or do you want to allow broken trunk commits? | 21:14 |
| ignas | with bzr in place - it would be better to avoid breaking trunk | 21:14 |
| * ddaa goes back to the scrollback | 21:15 | |
| ignas | breaking trunk only happens when you forget to svn add something so bumping such checkins is a good idea | 21:16 |
| ddaa | Do the "active branches" have a special significance to the toolchain, or are they just a conventional way to refer to a set of distinguished branches? | 21:17 |
| ddaa | or something else? | 21:17 |
| * ddaa slaps himself for asking binary questions | 21:17 | |
| ignas | no they are not a part of the toolchain at the moment | 21:18 |
| ignas | though i would like to have buildbot running on lyceum-branch | 21:18 |
| ignas | as a safeguard to avoid deploying broken things | 21:18 |
| ddaa | anything preventing it? | 21:18 |
| ignas | hmm, with svn - i don't really know, jinty is responsible for everything at the moment | 21:19 |
| ddaa | BTW, what is the role of jinty now? | 21:20 |
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| ignas | jinty is the administrator of the server all our infrastructure lives on | 21:20 |
| ignas | and would be the release manager if we were making releases | 21:20 |
| ddaa | does he have a programming role? | 21:21 |
| ignas | he does some tweaks to schooltool Makefiles, configuration files, some source code if it is required to make releases work | 21:22 |
| ddaa | schooltool trunk, right? | 21:22 |
| ignas | releases were being done from schooltool trunk | 21:22 |
| ignas | so yes | 21:22 |
| ignas | some of his tools live in the svn repository too | 21:23 |
| ddaa | they are part of buildbot, or they happen to share the repository out of convenience? | 21:23 |
| ddaa | or something else... | 21:23 |
| ignas | convenience | 21:23 |
| * ddaa slaps himself again | 21:23 | |
| * mgedmin remembers the spanish inquisition sketch | 21:24 | |
| ddaa | what kind of tools? | 21:24 |
| ignas | debian-packaging, release branching + tagging + packaging scripts | 21:24 |
| ddaa | ok | 21:25 |
| ddaa | I think I have a better idea now of how your are working. | 21:25 |
| * ignas too | 21:25 | |
| ignas | :) | 21:25 |
| * ddaa inserts a bookmarks for logs sake ======================== | 21:26 | |
| ddaa | I think the first thing that needs deciding is where the schooltool branches will be hosted. | 21:27 |
| ignas | options? :) | 21:27 |
| ddaa | Requirements, first :) | 21:28 |
| ddaa | So, branches like lyceum or otherschool, or jinty's stuff are just committed to by a single person. Right? | 21:28 |
| ignas | yes | 21:29 |
| ignas | hmm, i want branches that i am getting checkin emails about visible and accessible on the internet | 21:29 |
| ddaa | Sure. | 21:29 |
| ddaa | But the trunk branch (and maybe other branches in the future) are currently committed to by multiple people. | 21:29 |
| ddaa | Right? | 21:30 |
| ignas | yes | 21:30 |
| ignas | i can always tweak jintys release scripts, if it is needed | 21:30 |
| ignas | i can finish up jfroches work on his branch so i could merge it to trunk | 21:30 |
| ignas | etc. | 21:31 |
| ddaa | Can "tweak jintys scripts" or "finish up jfroches branch" be done as conveniently using separate bzr branches? | 21:32 |
| ignas | yes i think so | 21:32 |
| ignas | checkout, fix, publish, ask them to merge/pull if they want | 21:32 |
| ddaa | What I was thinking. | 21:32 |
| ddaa | So... generally there are three options for hosting branches. | 21:33 |
| ddaa | 1. Wherever on the internet. For branches committable by a single person. Launchpad already has a robust branch mirroring facility, so as long as it's online like half the time for Launchpad to get, it's enough. | 21:34 |
| ddaa | 2. Uploaded on Launchpad. That works for branches committable by a single person, but also allows multiple people to commit to a branch. | 21:35 |
| ddaa | The main drawback is that creating a new branch on Launchpad currently requires a complete upload of all the branch data. | 21:37 |
| ddaa | (we plan to fix that using smart server smartness, but it's not yet being worked on) | 21:37 |
| ddaa | 3. Uploaded on a non-launchpad central server. A simple way to do it is to create accounts people can sftp into. You can set the shell to scponly to prevent these accounts from ever getting an interactive shell. | 21:38 |
| ddaa | In this case, you can use things like unix groups to allow select people to write to repositories not owned by their user. | 21:39 |
| ddaa | Note that the presence of a repository in a remote server is only useful to speed up uploading. It has no effect on download speed (you want a local repository for that). | 21:40 |
| ignas | hmm, 1 + 3, trusted developers that are a part of the release cycle or just don't have their own web space have accounts | 21:40 |
| ignas | trunk + historical branches kept on schooltool server | 21:41 |
| ignas | trunk + developer branches + third party developer branches mirrored in launchpad | 21:41 |
| ddaa | You can also mirror historical branches to launchpad. It acts as a free backup service, too :) | 21:42 |
| ddaa | Note that you currently cannot easily delete branches from Launchpad. | 21:43 |
| ddaa | But branches on Launchpad have a "status", if it's Merged or Abandoned, the branch does not show up in listings by default. | 21:43 |
| ignas | oh | 21:43 |
| ddaa | new feature, just rolled out :) | 21:43 |
| ddaa | courtesy of thumper | 21:44 |
| ddaa | https://code.launchpad.net/bzr/ | 21:44 |
| * ddaa makes another bookmark ============================== | 21:45 | |
| ddaa | Driving buildbot | 21:46 |
| ddaa | I do not think you can conveniently use the post-commit hook approach with bzr ATM | 21:46 |
| ddaa | since post-commit hooks are run on client | 21:46 |
| ignas | well, you could do it on push, but hmm, push is not something you can easily prevent ... | 21:47 |
| ddaa | push does not run any post-commit hook | 21:47 |
| ddaa | but the recommended way to work with multi-committers branch is to use checkouts | 21:48 |
| ddaa | where you do not normally run push | 21:48 |
| ignas | bbot only works if some robot is doing the merging to the guarded branch ... | 21:48 |
| ddaa | Not necessarily... | 21:48 |
| ddaa | I see three approaches here: | 21:48 |
| ddaa | 1. as you said, some robot runs server side to do the merging | 21:49 |
| ddaa | pqm would be a very good fit for your requirements because it effectively prevents people from comitting revisions that fail the test suite | 21:49 |
| ddaa | but it's kind of a pain in the ass to administer, so let's keep it in the later basket, and instead find ways to drive buildbot | 21:50 |
| ddaa | 2. a custom bzr plugin used by trunk comitters. It would quick buildbot in the xmlrpc when doing a remote commit on a checkout of trunk. | 21:51 |
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| ddaa | the annoying thing is that it relies on trunk committers a. only doing commit to trunk, not push b. have the plugin installed and working | 21:52 |
| ddaa | might be easy to fail this just by mistake | 21:52 |
| ddaa | 3. have cronscript that reads the checkins mailing list and quick buildbot when it sees an email about a code change on trunk | 21:53 |
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| ignas | hmm | 21:54 |
| ddaa | that would make the checking ML a single point of failure, but in case of disaster you can still run buildbot manually | 21:55 |
| ddaa | and I think it would be simple enough to hack using stock command line tools | 21:55 |
| ignas | ML is on schooltool.org, so cron script would just look at real files | 21:56 |
| ignas | so i have a published writable repository bzr.schooltool.org/lyceum/ | 21:56 |
| ignas | i bzr get st.org/lyceum | 21:56 |
| ignas | bzr merge my-new-feature to it + commit | 21:56 |
| ignas | iirc changes are not in schooltool.org yet | 21:56 |
| ddaa | actually "bzr checkout st.org/lyceum" | 21:57 |
| ignas | oh | 21:57 |
| ddaa | then your changes are uploaded on commit unless you specify "--local" | 21:57 |
| ddaa | ignas: go on | 21:58 |
| ignas | so bzr merge + commit | 21:58 |
| ignas | everything gets published | 21:59 |
| ignas | emails get somehow sent | 21:59 |
| ignas | cronscript gets the email and starts buildbot | 21:59 |
| ignas | i get a warning | 21:59 |
| ignas | sounds good | 21:59 |
| ignas | one of the scary things about bzr is that I don't know how to fix a branch that got misused ... | 22:00 |
| ddaa | depends of what kind of misuse you are thinking. | 22:00 |
| ddaa | and what you mean by fixing | 22:01 |
| ddaa | First, can we call the buildbot thing a solved problem for now? | 22:01 |
| ignas | with svn it's all well clear - svn keeps all the history, even messy one | 22:01 |
| ignas | buildbot - yes i think so | 22:01 |
| * ddaa makes a bookmark ============================== | 22:01 | |
| ignas | got an unclean changeset merged into | 22:02 |
| ddaa | ignas: with bzr you can do it the svn way | 22:02 |
| ignas | then god a clean changeset for another feature | 22:02 |
| ddaa | bzr merge -r-2..-3 | 22:02 |
| ddaa | that will apply the reverse of the change introduce in the penultimate revision | 22:03 |
| ignas | and even if i will fix the feature in the feature branch - it will be well, less nice in trunk than if one would get it directly | 22:03 |
| ignas | oh, so i revert a patchset then remerge the full/complete one | 22:04 |
| ddaa | not quite, reversion has somewhat surprising semantics in bzr. It's related to the lack of cherrpick tracking | 22:05 |
| ddaa | if you commit that reversion that will say "I merged the changes in that revision, and applied additional, unrelated, changes that reverse them" | 22:05 |
| ignas | ? | 22:06 |
| ddaa | if you merge again the branch that was merged in the revision you reversed | 22:06 |
| ddaa | bzr will only try to get the _new_ changes | 22:06 |
| ignas | oh | 22:07 |
| ignas | hmm | 22:07 |
| ddaa | But there's another way | 22:07 |
| ddaa | actually several other ways... | 22:07 |
| ddaa | let's start with the one that's simplest to explain | 22:08 |
| ddaa | you can "bzr uncommit -r-3", that will uncommit to revision -3 (antepenultimate) | 22:08 |
| ddaa | then "bzr revert" to discard those changes from the working tree | 22:09 |
| ddaa | Then you can "bzr merge" the branch with the good fix that you want to keep. | 22:10 |
| ddaa | Since you uncomitted the merge of the broken feature, next time you try to merge it, after the fix, it will get all the changes. | 22:10 |
| ddaa | ignas: makes sense? | 22:10 |
| ignas | yes | 22:11 |
| ignas | a nice bandaid if I merge+commit something to trunk by accident | 22:11 |
| ddaa | But uncomitting multi-committers branch is frowned upon, and does not work too well. | 22:11 |
| ddaa | Take my word for it, you only want to uncommit on a single committer branch. There is a good reason for this, but it would distract us from the discussion at hand. | 22:12 |
| ddaa | In a multi-committer case I think the right way to pull back a change is: | 22:13 |
| * ddaa thinks about it | 22:13 | |
| ddaa | bzr folks are not big on multi-committers branches usually, got to stop and think :) | 22:14 |
| ignas | i don't think schooltool will be big on that | 22:15 |
| ignas | i mean with bzr - trunk will have to be the sanctuary of stability | 22:15 |
| ignas | with preferably only nice full merges | 22:15 |
| ddaa | basically, you need to reverse the change with a reverse-cherrypick as previously, and this revision has to be merged into the feature branch without the tree change (effectively reversing the reversion), then the fixes are committed on the feature branch. | 22:16 |
| ddaa | which blows up the annotation for those changes | 22:17 |
| ddaa | and is just messy | 22:17 |
| ignas | ouch | 22:17 |
| ignas | not a thing i'd want on trunk that will probably be merged from | 22:18 |
| ddaa | We'll talk about why uncommit is bad on a multi-comitter branch another. | 22:18 |
| ddaa | ignas: it's perfectly okay | 22:18 |
| ignas | or maybe trunk should be something one merges from, used only to make releases | 22:18 |
| ddaa | it sounds complicated, and it's a bit of gymnastic, but it's not causing any harm, except from losing the annotation for the lines changed by the reversion. | 22:19 |
| ddaa | they will appear to come from the revision that reverses the reversion. | 22:19 |
| ddaa | So, we'll talk about the uncommit-on-multi-committers another day. | 22:20 |
| ddaa | Want to finish this discussion first. | 22:20 |
| ddaa | ================================= | 22:20 |
| ddaa | So... emails :) | 22:21 |
| ignas | ok | 22:21 |
| ddaa | Branches mirrored or uploaded on launchpad will be able to send email notifications. | 22:22 |
| ddaa | For the code changes. | 22:22 |
| ddaa | But also for the "details" changes. | 22:22 |
| ddaa | Things like the branch name, description, owner, whiteboard, status... | 22:22 |
| ddaa | which are launchpad metadata | 22:22 |
| ignas | not a problem really | 22:23 |
| ddaa | Do you want to receive emails about changes to this metadata to the checkin mailing list? | 22:23 |
| ignas | i don't think i care about it that much :) | 22:23 |
| ignas | the metadata | 22:23 |
| ddaa | Do you want NOT to receive emails about those changes on the ML? | 22:24 |
| ignas | no difference to me at the moment | 22:24 |
| ddaa | Okay, at the moment we are going with "if you get diffs, you get metadata updates as well". | 22:24 |
| ddaa | makes the code and the UI simpler | 22:25 |
| ignas | :) | 22:25 |
| ignas | now the question is - to whom ? | 22:27 |
| ddaa | So for a subscribed (more later) branch, one email will be sent for each new revision. | 22:27 |
| ignas | schooltool-checkins has no account on launchpad ... | 22:28 |
| ddaa | Yep. | 22:28 |
| ddaa | There's a schooltool developers team, I guess? | 22:29 |
| ignas | yes | 22:29 |
| * ddaa checks the spec | 22:29 | |
| ddaa | What is currently proposed is associating an email to the product | 22:31 |
| ddaa | and maybe a subscription type as well | 22:31 |
| ddaa | so, this email would have to validated and owned by the product owner (the schooltool team I guess) | 22:31 |
| ddaa | In the case of schooltool, mails about changes on all branches registered on the schooltool product could be sent to this email. | 22:32 |
| ignas | validation on the public mailing list will look funny :) | 22:32 |
| ddaa | well... it's a bit funny... but if the list is not public-postable, the validation message would be caught by the moderator. | 22:33 |
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| ddaa | And public-postable mailing lists are an endangered species because of spam nowadays | 22:34 |
| ignas | true | 22:34 |
| ddaa | ignas: so, do I understand well that you would like to receive emails about all and every branch registered on the schooltool product? | 22:35 |
| ignas | yes | 22:35 |
| ddaa | There's a new edge case with commits email now. | 22:35 |
| ignas | at least at the moment, it might change when we'll get these 200+ developers attracted to the product :D | 22:35 |
| ddaa | When a branch is first registered, you do not want 6000 emails for all the revisions in the initial history :) | 22:36 |
| ignas | ddaa: no, i kind of want 1 email that tells me that the branch was registered | 22:36 |
| ddaa | so I think in this case, a single "A branch was registered" email would be sent, without any diff. | 22:36 |
| ddaa | The current proposal says: one email per new commit | 22:37 |
| ddaa | that means that if someone does a bunch of commits on his branch, and pushes them, you'll get a bunch of emails. | 22:37 |
| ignas | at the moment it will be good enough | 22:38 |
| ignas | i can gmail tag branches even :) | 22:38 |
| ddaa | In the case where the push actually removes revision from the history, there would be a single "5 revisions removed" email, presumably with a diff | 22:38 |
| ddaa | ignas: what would you find better? | 22:39 |
| ignas | i don't know, i have yet to see the trafic generated by this | 22:39 |
| ddaa | ignas: for tag branches, you probably want to do merges anyway | 22:39 |
| ddaa | There would probably be a limit on the size of the diff included in an email. | 22:40 |
| ignas | at the moment merges are represented by 1 huge email instead of 5 small ones | 22:40 |
| ignas | ddaa: hmm, that might be a problem really | 22:40 |
| ddaa | ignas: that would be the same | 22:40 |
| ddaa | a commit is one new revision in the branch history | 22:40 |
| ddaa | it's many new revisions in the ancestry | 22:40 |
| ignas | i had some 100 kb diffs commited | 22:40 |
| ignas | and these had to get at least some review ... | 22:41 |
| ddaa | and you want to read that sort of thing in an email client? | 22:41 |
| ignas | mutt handles it :) | 22:41 |
| ignas | and ok 100 kb were not reviewable | 22:41 |
| ignas | but 20 kb is common | 22:41 |
| ignas | :/ | 22:41 |
| ddaa | I was thinking limit in number of lines | 22:42 |
| ddaa | so 100k should be about 20k lines? | 22:42 |
| ignas | these are when you merge an old branch | 22:42 |
| ignas | hmm | 22:42 |
| ignas | let me check real sizes | 22:42 |
| ignas | or translations from rosetta | 22:43 |
| ddaa | hu... presumably translations from rosetta are already reviewed, in Rosetta, by the time they hit svn... | 22:43 |
| ignas | yes | 22:43 |
| ignas | i know | 22:43 |
| ddaa | okay... so what you be the upper limit for a diff you are willing to receive by email? | 22:44 |
| ddaa | (and that other checkins subscriber are also willing to get) | 22:44 |
| ignas | 200 kb i'd say | 22:45 |
| ignas | + a link to a checkin diff on the web | 22:45 |
| ddaa | ok | 22:45 |
| ddaa | need fancy colors in the checkin diff? | 22:46 |
| ddaa | or is it just for reference? (e.g fancy colors provided by favourite text editor) | 22:46 |
| ignas | no not necessary, i want it accessible to be copy pasted | 22:46 |
| mgedmin | fancy colors on the web == good | 22:47 |
| ddaa | So... I think we'll need a setting to allow you to increase the max size of diffs sent by email. | 22:47 |
| mgedmin | fancy colors in the email == no need | 22:47 |
| ddaa | Regarding the diff on the web, we have the basic infrastructure for storing millions of large files like this, but I do not expect it will happen right away. | 22:48 |
| ddaa | We do want to have a real branch browser for launchpad (that would be a better way to provide the diffs), but that seems to be a significant challenge of its own. | 22:49 |
| ddaa | For buildbot | 22:50 |
| ddaa | we'll probably need to add some interesting X-something headers to the email | 22:50 |
| ignas | or we'll do some parsing :) | 22:51 |
| ddaa | like X-Launchpad-Branch: ~schooltool/schooltool/trunk | 22:51 |
| ignas | the way pov activity (timelog) mailing list works | 22:51 |
| ddaa | what do you mean? | 22:51 |
| ddaa | maybe as well X-Launchpad-Branch-Change: [code] [details] | 22:52 |
| ddaa | to avoid kicking buildbot if something changes the description of the branch | 22:52 |
| ignas | we have like 5 different weekly report formats (different employees different habbits) and an ad-hoc system that parses out the date, hours worked etc ... | 22:53 |
| ddaa | okay | 22:53 |
| ignas | but yes - X- headers would bi nice | 22:53 |
| ignas | for everyone else too :) | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | I imagine people might want tags in the subject | 22:53 |
| ddaa | yup, one thing people like with malone is that it's got very useful headers to help sort the globs of bugspam it generates | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | [trunk] Do this | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | [jfroche-branch-X] Do that | 22:54 |
| ddaa | mh | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | I forgot revision numbers | 22:54 |
| ddaa | in launchpad, the unique name of a branch is ~owner/product/name | 22:54 |
| ddaa | I guess we could use just the name part, but then it's not unique for a product... | 22:55 |
| ignas | hmm | 22:56 |
| ddaa | maybe just '[%s %s]' % (owner.name, branch.name) | 22:56 |
| ignas | ok, sorry but i have to go now :/ | 22:56 |
| ignas | 11PM here | 22:56 |
| ddaa | thanks a lot | 22:56 |
| ignas | thank you :) | 22:56 |
| * ddaa -> dinner | 22:57 | |
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