IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2006-11-06

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jfrochejinty: hello12:23
jintyjfroche: hi12:24
jfrocheare you running schooltool zope with runzope ?12:24
jintysymlinked to the init.d dir12:24
jfrochei cant restart it12:25
jfrocheroot      3271  0.0  0.3   6820  1928 ?        Ss   Nov05   0:00 /usr/bin/python2.3 /opt/Zope-2.8.1/lib/python/zdaemon/ -S /opt/Zope-2.8.1/lib/python/Zope2/Startup/zopeschema.xml -b 10 -d -s /var/zope/ -x 0,2 -z /var/zope/ /var/zope/
jfrochei pack the zodb there12:27
jintyhmm, well, it might have been another admin that started it manually12:27
jfrochefrom 2Go => 140 Mo12:27
jfrocheyou have the script which login as zodbpacker to do the packing ?12:28
jintyYes, I have a cron job that packs the ZODB each week to 7 days history each weekend, which comes out at around 4GB12:29
jintydo you think I should pack it more often, with less history?12:30
jfrocheno i think its ok12:32
jfrochewe will see with th1a this afternoon for the switch to the new one12:33
jfrochei created you the zodbpacker user12:33
jfrochewhat did you need else ?12:33
jintyer I think that's all, the rest should be pretty standard.12:34
jfrochecould you kill 3271 & 327212:36
jfroche53.6% memory for the old zope instance is a bit much12:37
jfrochejinty: cant restart the main instance12:41
jfrocheIOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/zope/'12:41
jfrochecan you chmod 664 the Data.fs ?12:42
jintynot really, the Data.fs shouldn't be world readable on a multi user machine like schooltool.org12:44
jintybut i've re-started the main zope instance12:44
jfrocheit is actually world readable12:44
jfrochels -l /var/zope/
jfroche-rw-r--r-- 1 www-data www-admin 184094777 2006-11-06 05:44 /var/zope/
jintybugger, you've gotta love the way zope makes things easy for sysadmins <sarcasim>12:45
jintyok, i've removed world permissions from the directory, maybe that'll help12:47
jintybut you should be able to restart the main zope through the zmi now12:48
jinty(I hope)12:48
jfrocheon the new instance (/var/local/zope/instance287-prod) i ll need to restart it from fs ;)12:49
jfrocheok can restart from zmi in the old one12:50
jfrochejinty: you told me you don't have access to ?13:02
jintyjfroche: no, I don't, you have to speak to the pov people about it.13:03
jintybut we should migrate everything at source to at some point.13:04
jfrochewould be the best yes13:04
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ignasjinty: ayt?14:59
jintyignas: yep15:01
ignasis there a way to "make clean" zcml files that get copied from schooltool/src/ to schooltool-skel ?15:02
jintyaside from just deleting them, I think not15:02
jinty(it should normally be re-populated by zpkg on the next build I think)15:03
ignasso just removing and make runing schooltool should be more or less safe15:03
jintyare you talking a subversion checkout?15:04
jintybecause you could remove non zpkg managed files as well (if there are any)15:04
jintybut otherwise it should be more or less safe15:04
ignassvn checkout15:05
ignasi am playing with zcml configuration to make functional tests run with parts of schooltool disabled ...15:05
* jinty notes that there was just a very interesting conversation about layers and eggs on zope3-dev15:06
ignasjinty: "Tracking eggification of zope.* packages" ?15:09
jintyignas: yeah, where they were talking about getting the functional tests running for each egg individually.15:10
jintyi.e. not depending on the rest of the zope zcml config.15:11
ignasi see15:11
ignasat the moment my problem is a bit different15:12
ignasnot that many functional tests are testing some part of the system individually15:12
ignasso disabling any part of the system affects at least a few functional tests15:12
jfrocheignas: hello15:32
jfrochegot my mail ?15:32
ignaswas kind of sick this weekend15:33
ignassince thursday actually15:33
ignaslet me look at the irc logs and come up with the final decision15:34
ignaswas this: (Nov 28th evening to Dec 1st evening) idea suitable ?15:38
jfrochethink so yes15:40
ignasok then15:40
jfrochewhen are your exams ?15:40
ignasno idea15:40
jfrochegood :)15:40
*** th1a_ is now known as th1a16:30
* th1a shuffles some papers around16:30
th1aHi everyone.16:31
th1aHi ignas.16:32
th1ajfroche? jinty?16:32
jfrochehello th1a16:32
th1aOK, let's start with updates as usual.  Want to go first ignas?16:33
ignasnot much here, wen to meet with lyceum, gave the translation of the contract to the principal (should contact me about it some time soon)16:34
ignaswas sick for 2 days, and wednesday was a holiday16:34
th1aAh.  Feeling better?16:34
ignasBronius Skūpas showed me 2 Lithuanian grade tracking systems16:35
th1aTwo online systems?16:35
th1aWhat did you think?16:35
ignasthe UI of the first one sucks badly, but it is way more complete than anything we have ... they have integration with actual courses depending on the school year (don't know where from)16:37
ignassupport a lot of schools at the same time16:37
th1aWhat do you mean actual courses?16:37
ignascourses defined by the ministry of education or something like that16:37
ignasyou select a level, and get a list of subjects available for pupils of that age16:38
th1aOh, right.16:38
th1aIs there a set curriculum for those courses?16:38
ignasi think so16:38
th1aDo you know if specific tests or assignments are also set up automatically when you add the course?16:39
ignasthere are no specific tests or assignments i think16:39
ignashtey have various kinds of grades though (test, assigment, homework etc.)16:40
ignasthe other system (i saw only manual of) is nicer from the UI perspective, and has both grades and attendance16:40
th1aAre they web based?16:40
th1aWhat's your plan for this week?16:41
ignascheck in the import script, add permissions for teachers to access student calendars, start working on timetable events16:42
ignasplan the subgroup concept16:42
ignas(this one is new)16:42
ignasi will talk about it more after the meeting if you are interested16:42
th1aSo you're expecting to hear about the contract shortly?16:43
ignashope so16:43
th1aOK.  Good.16:44
th1ajfroche: What's up in Belgium?16:44
jfrochesunny these days :)16:44
jfrocheworked on website16:44
jfrocheready for switch16:44
jfrocheplone 2.1.416:44
jfrocheprotected for comment16:44
jfrochetranslatable homepage16:44
jfrochebut still with 640 users16:45
jfrochei really really would like to go in a school16:45
th1aYes... you're stuck.16:45
th1aHave you talked to Nicolas lately?16:45
ignasth1a: did you see the avalanche of span on ?16:45
th1aOh, no.16:46
th1aI think that one's your responsibility ;-)16:46
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th1aAh.  There you are jfroche_16:48
jfroche_missed any msg ?16:49
th1aI asked if you'd talked to Nicolas lately.16:49
jfroche_he said he will ask to his director16:50
jfroche_he wanted to do a meeting but no date fixed yet16:50
th1aOK.  One thing that is important to remember is that you don't have to have real data to get some work done.16:51
jfroche_i don't really see why we should do a meeting as there is nothing new16:51
th1aAlso, it should be pretty clear that you need to keep pushing to get this formally approved.16:51
jfroche_now that i v finished with website i am setting thing up on Denis server16:51
th1aBut really, if you say, "I'll work with your teachers on a demo and we'll evaluate it and move real data in the spring" it is fine.16:52
th1aOK.  That's good.16:52
jfroche_but did you have news from Denis & Nicolas ?16:52
th1aI don't think so.16:52
th1aI should probably prod them.16:53
jfroche_once i have the schooltool working on Denis server what should i do ?16:53
th1aWell, you should discuss it with Denis, but one thing would be to modify the sample data generation to generate sample data that fits the structure of Vauban.16:54
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th1aThat should be pretty straightforward.16:56
th1aAnd actually a pretty good way to ease into SchoolTool's API.16:56
jfroche_Denis said he would like to work with his student informations16:57
th1aYou mean just his students?16:58
th1aYou should be able to do that without getting permission, perhaps?16:58
th1aUsing ST as Denis's "personal" gradebook?16:58
th1aOK.  That's fine.17:00
th1aSo go forward in that direction.17:00
th1aDo you know what Denis would want you to work on first?17:01
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th1aOh, that was the other jfroche.17:02
jfroche_i think he wants to encode his timetable17:02
jfroche_and his students17:02
jfroche_and encode their points17:03
jfroche_see if it fits well with his needs17:03
th1aOK.  Can you start doing that?  I'd guess you'd need to meet with him?17:04
jfroche_right i ll see with him17:05
th1aWhat do you plan on working on this week?17:06
jfroche_the instance17:06
jfroche_Denis one17:06
jfroche_Nicolas said he might do the same17:06
th1aOK.  That'll keep you occupied.17:07
jfroche_think so17:07
jfroche_will mail you if not17:07
th1aBeyond that, we never really came up with the specific development goals for this quarter.17:07
th1aIf you can sketch out with Denis and Nicolas what they'd like you to work on, it would be a big help.17:08
th1aWe can give you some other tasks, but the idea is they are driving this.17:08
jfroche_i ll ask them about it17:10
jfroche_they will need to play with the instance first17:10
jfroche_see if it fits somehow with what they need17:10
th1aOne thing to bear in mind is that one of the things that we need to work on the most is little usability fixes.17:11
th1aSo you *don't* necessarily have to start with big picture things.17:11
jfroche_making a list of usability problem should be a good start then17:12
th1aWhat we want is for you to sit with them and make up a list of problems, solve them, have them check your fixes, etc.17:12
th1aYes.  So we're stuck waiting on the Malone thing?17:12
jfroche_yes, i send again an email today17:13
jfroche_cc Steve at the same time17:13
th1aOK.  Good.  The Canonical conference is going on in California now, so we'll see if it penetrates the distractions.17:13
th1aOK... jinty: Would you like to give us an update?17:14
jintywell, I upgraded the server on the weekend to dapper, but on re-boot it didn't come back up17:15
jintyor the server came up, but it's network connection didn't17:15
jintyanyway, it seems to be fine now. and the services are up17:15
th1aOK.  Nothing changed but it just worked?17:16
jintybut I havn't yet done any detailed testing.17:16
th1aOK.  We'll keep our fingers crossed ;-)17:16
th1aOK.  Now on to my problems.17:17
jintywell, the logs show a few re-boots to get it running again, so I presume that was the serverproto admins17:17
th1aI've been setting up a SchoolTool for Feinstein on my laptop that I need to move to our server.17:17
jintythe testing server, no?17:17
jintyusing a release or subversion checkout (if so, which version?)17:18
th1aIt is a current svn version.17:19
th1aAnd I also have a custom product I'm working on.17:19
jintyhow is the custom product packaged? svn/egg/tarball?17:20
th1aRight now it is just a directory ;-)17:21
jintyuff, at least svn would be nice...17:21
th1aI can do that.17:22
th1aOverall, I would be fine just being given my own sandbox to work in.17:23
th1aIn fact, I'd really prefer it.17:23
jintyhmm, ok17:23
jintybut you want things like log rotation? and starting on reboot?17:23
th1aWell, certainly it needs to start on reboot.17:24
th1aBut I also might muck around with things in the source that I wouldn't want to break other instances.17:24
jintysure, ok, then I'll set up something like that with nice permissions so that you don't have to do things as root17:25
th1aThat'll be helpful.17:25
th1aMoving on...17:26
th1ajfroche_: What's the URL of the new version of again?17:26
th1aThe dev version.17:27
jfroche_ = dev17:27
jfroche_ = new prod17:27
th1aWhat's the difference?17:28
th1aThe first one doesn't seem to be up.17:28
jfroche_the dev is my sandbox17:31
jfroche_mostly exactly the same as prod server17:31
jfroche_before changing something on the prod server i do it on the dev17:31
jfroche_(something important)17:31
th1aOK.  I don't see the navigation on the left side of the page?17:32
th1aJust Home > Products17:32
jfroche_you are logged in ?17:33
jfroche_firefox ?17:33
th1aThere is a line underneath it.17:34
jfroche_which version ?17:34
jfroche_i see everything here17:34
th1aThis happening for anyone else?17:35
ignas8280 works 8180 doesn't17:36
jfroche_ignas: how many element do you see in left navigation menu ?17:36
th1aAfter logging in I see the Home, Members, Products (PSC), Documentation (PHC), Products (Folder).17:37
jfroche_even logged i see everything on firefox 2.017:37
jfroche_i try to reproduce the error17:37
th1aShould be a fun one...17:38
jfroche_even on windows i cant have it17:40
jfroche_are you using mac ?17:40
th1aNope.  Edgy.17:41
jfroche_ok on ie i have the same behaviour17:41
th1aHrm.  I'm having trouble finding that skin you made that lets me look at all the user accounts.17:43
th1aWhen you're settled, I can just go through the production instance and kill all the non-essential accounts.17:43
th1aOK.  I can do it there and it'll stick?17:45
th1aAll right, we should wrap up the "formal" part of the meeting...17:48
* th1a bangs the gravel.17:48
th1aignas:  Want to discuss sub-groups?17:48
ignasyep :)17:48
ignasthe problem - at the moment students don't have their individual timetables and are managed by groups17:49
ignasbut, different students have different subjects17:50
ignaslet's say part of 1a are going to english, part is going to physics, and the rest of them having a window17:50
ignasteachers want to manage this somehow, let's say open the section they are teaching to and remove some students from their class17:51
th1aOh dear.17:51
ignasbut as they have the whole 1a subscribed to them - they can't remove only some students ...17:52
ignasor even better17:52
ignassometimes it's 1a, 1b, 1c in the same section17:52
ignasparts of them really17:52
ignasone idea is to add a group for every such occurence, let's say 1a physics group, 1b physics group etc.17:53
ignasanother more difficult yet more manageable way is to add a new concept17:53
ignasa constrained group, a subgroup of 1a17:53
ignasso when some teacher removes some students from his section, a new subgroup object is created for "group and section"17:54
th1aI think this is getting WAY to baroque.17:54
th1aLet's back up.17:54
jfroche_ignas: do you have the same behaviour (2 folders) on
ignasjfroche_: nope, can see everything now17:55
th1aWhy do I want to be able to add a group to a section?17:55
th1ajfroche_: Fixed!17:55
ignasth1a: mmm, so if someone adds a member to a group, he automatically appears in your section17:56
th1aNow, if I don't want that to happen, the group isn't so helpful to me.17:56
ignashmm, yes, i'll ask them, maybe just having a list of students is better17:57
th1aNow, on the other hand, there's a different way to approach adding groups to sections.17:57
th1aThat is, just adding the current members of the group to the section as a convenience.17:57
th1aWhen you're setting it up.17:57
th1aSo it sounds like in some cases you just want to add (some of) the individuals in the group.17:58
th1aSo perhaps just filtering the student list by groups when you're adding people to sections is sufficient.17:58
ignasth1a: oh, did you see the feature ? :)17:59
th1aFor those sections that are really mixed or partial groups.17:59
th1aSee the feature?17:59
ignasthe filtering of students17:59
ignasby group17:59
th1aOh, I guess not ;-)17:59
ignassvn up :)18:00
ignasit's in trunk18:00
th1aOK.  I'll check it out.18:00
ignasbtw, lyceum asked for a user interface way to switch between languages18:01
ignasprobably cookies, maybe user preferences18:01
th1aYes.  That would be good.18:02
ignasas i want the language when no one is logged in set to proper value too18:02
th1aIs it problematic?18:02
ignasnot really, just that there are so many features, and not so much programming time ;)18:02
th1aOK.  Prioritize.18:03
jfroche_th1a: can we switch to the new website ?18:06
th1aWe me work on the content now & we'll throw the switch in a week?18:07
th1aI will work on the content now, that is.18:07
* jinty was just about to ask when to throw the switch18:09
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