IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2006-10-27

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jfrochesome member folder containing bad things are: {'id': 'akula', 'size': 11}18:58
jfroche{'id': 'clon', 'size': 12}18:58
jfroche{'id': 'karas6', 'size': 12}18:58
jfroche{'id': 'umaxparty', 'size': 13}18:58
ignasth1a: well, theoretically it is correct, practically it is useless ;) at least at the moment, while yes when i will probably build upon it when transfer to the next year will be required for lyceum19:00
ignasjust that the whole machinery required for migration of data from one year to another is something i have no idea about at the moment19:01
th1aOK.  I just don't want you to completely disregard it, which your comment implied.19:01
th1aignas:  It is a subject stephan and I worked on at great length...19:01
ignasbut i have no access to any decisions, or polished ideas of how should everything work from users perspective ...19:02
mgedminjfroche: your new ssh key is in place19:03
th1aWe mostly worked on modeling things.19:03
ignasmodeling things?19:03
jfrochethanks a lot19:03
th1aI mean, designing and implementing the API.19:03
th1aNot so much end-user perspective.19:03
ignasany place where i can find implementations of the API ?19:04
th1aMy point is that we need to keep the lines of communication open around that stuff, levels, end-of-year, hierarchical terms, etc.19:05
th1abranch:  srichter-term-gradebook-work219:06
th1aThat has the big term rewrite, which is pretty much done.19:06
th1aBut the gradebook rewrite never really happened.19:07
ignasit includes the machinery to go from one year to another one ?19:07
th1aI don't think it has that.  We never really finalized those pieces.19:07
th1aBut it does define a school year and the constituent semesters and grading periods.19:07
th1aWhich is obviously a necessary preliminary step.19:07
th1aAnd also a big pain to do when your current implementation only has flat terms and no year.19:08
ignaswell, the simplest implementation (a.k.a. a big RED switch named "Archive data") would kind of work without it ...19:09
ignaswhat i am interested in is not an API, but a source target comparison, i mean what happens after clicking some magical switch19:09
ignaswhat data, goes where, and how do you access it, after it is archived etc.19:10
th1aYes, but you want to be able to analyze data year to year, etc.  The system has to understand the passage of time and progress through the school.19:10
ignasnot really, it has to understand that the red switch was clicked on 2007-09-01, 2006-09-01, 2005-09-0119:10
th1aIt doesn't seem like anything really needs to be archived as such, or if so, that's an optimization issue.19:10
ignaswell, if nothing gets archived, then what happens ? where do students that have graduated go?19:11
ignasi am seeing these things as the difficult probably school specific problem ...19:12
th1aThey don't necessarily have to go anywhere.  I mean, you'll want to filter them out of most views.19:12
ignasso, we will need some sane way to make all views filter out "archived (not sure it's the right term)" data19:12
ignasand some views that can access it19:13
ignasand some ways to mark maybe even hierarchies of objects as archived19:13
th1aYou ultimately want to be able to do some long term data analysis which looks at trends over several years.19:13
ignas*mark objects19:13
ignasso the most simple way is to make a huge wizard that guides you through questions like "select groups that should not get archived", "pick students that should not pass to other level", etc. and annotates objects with a flag "archived on school-year 2007"19:15
ignasplus a system that filters everything by these annotations ...19:15
ignaswhat I wanted to say is that it's not really necessary to extend any parts of schooltool functionality to do from users perspective really19:16
th1aThere are lots of other things that have to happen at the end of a semester or year, though, you stop taking attendance, generate report cards, possibly activate new sections, etc.19:17
ignasyes, but the migration from one year to another is more of a helper, i mean - levels should help users to transfer people from one kind of groups to another one (in Lithuania), and probably even filter courses by the level of a student19:19
ignasthe big red button helps the customer to remove/hide those who are graduated19:20
ignasso he would not have to do it manually19:20
th1aSure.  That would be the default.19:20
ignasone should be capable to simulate the switch between one school year and another by performing a lot of manual tasks19:21
ignasdelete these users (maybe add them to a group graduates and disable their passwords)19:21
ignasreset group members19:21
ignasimport newbies19:21
ignascreate passwords19:21
ignasremove old sections19:21
ignasadd new sections19:21
th1aUltimately, we want the labor-intensive parts to be automated.19:25
th1aotoh, we don't want to get so hung up on making a perfect, super-cool automated system that we never ship ;-)19:27
ignasthe questions i don't know exact answers for are - what should i do with the data that would get removed if we'd perform a manual migration (need a better term for this :( )19:28
th1aWe really don't want to remove data.19:30
th1aThe actually interesting part of writing a system like this is to do longer term in depth analysis.19:30
ignaswell, as soon as some school will last more than a year with schooltool :)19:34
jfrocheth1a: this should help you to find the good users and remove the bad ones19:39
th1ajfroche: It is nice to have a plone expert around.19:41
jfrochehave to leave19:41
jfrochegood evening19:41
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th1aignas: anything else before I go to lunch?19:43
ignasyou asked what i meant with the Table choice19:44
ignaswell - you should have seen the multi column table in person view19:44
ignasand the list of persons you get when you are adding member to a group19:44
ignasi think it would be nicer to have the table with name, last_name, birth_year, maybe groups instead of title19:45
ignasth1a: that's all i think :)19:45
th1aOK.  Have a good weekend!19:46
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mgedminpublic service announcements: commit announcements have been discontinued, because the supybot 0.83.2 Debian package helpfully removed the Tail plugin20:44
mgedminI don't have the time to go look for it20:44
mgedminthe helpful people in #supybot told me I can find it in some darcs repository somewhere20:45
mgedminthat may or may not be called "supybot-plugins"20:45
mgedminbut it is not here:
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