IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2006-10-24

ignasLumiere: can you give me the url you are checking out00:03
ignasi'd see whether it's really networking problem00:03
Lumierecoming from the makefile for cando00:09
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Lumierebb tomorrow00:26
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sky123_hello. someone had responded to my query about cando and grading...but my little kid shut my pc you dont mind what is the status of these projects or can i get it in the alpha version and run it..errrmm...confidently in production?01:54
ignas - logs are in here, so if someone answered your questions, you should be able to find the answers you need02:00
sky123_ignas: the response..02:04
sky123_For the "guy" that left the grading portion the source available??Im interested in seeing what it would take to help to finish it.02:05
sky123_It is a KEY component that is needed.02:05
ignasumm, well how experienced are you ?02:06
ignaspython, Zope3 ?02:06
sky123_here is the deal...i have a friend who finds himself out of a job who is very experienced with python. And I am a former teacher who remembers the pedagogy pretty well, but am working the world of Linux/Asterisk related stuff(systems end), and we thought we can make a go of it..02:22
sky123_so starting with the source to see "how" complex its going to be is the issue.02:22
sky123_and giving it a gentleman's go to see...."can this be handled or no"..02:23
ignasi see02:23
ignaswell, from what i know there's wasn't much progress02:24
ignasbut it's
ignasfor an svn checkout02:25
ignasthough picking it up and continuing might be difficult, especially if i'll be mashing timetabling around ...02:26
sky123_i see...starting over then is more the key hh?02:28
sky123_sorry typo02:28
sky123_In my experience as an educator aplle seems to make the biggest headway with Powergrade... but there is NO reason why this couldnt be ported or made to work on schooltool02:29
sky123_the concept if you will of a "package" where calendering, grading, attendance, and assessment in one place is what was so desperately required..02:30
ignashmm, well, if someone would want to add grading to schooltool, all i can do is help ... i will have to work on it sooner or later anyway02:30
ignasjust that at the moment making parts that are already functional actually useful is more important for me personally ...02:31
ignasthus I'd be glad to receive any help from outside ;)02:31
ignasespecially highly qualified and motivated :)02:32
sky123_motivation high...lol02:35
sky123_qualified...yet to be seen i guess.02:35
sky123_Im wondering...would it be of value to get the what the conceptual pages for grading should look like in the grading module??02:36
sky123_or has that all been vetted?02:36
ignasvetted ?02:37
ignasas for conceptual pages - having some would be very nice, though you should have in mind that the school that I am cooperating with has asked for joint "attendance/grading" views for teachers02:39
sky123_i see02:39
ignasas in Lithuania the day grid an marks are related most of the time, so having only 1 view is kind of convenient02:39
sky123_i worked and my wife now works for a school that does heavy assessments based on "cognitive growth" based on Vygotsky (proximal development)02:40
ignasthough the exact design is not finalized (actually is not even started) ;)02:40
sky123_They use this heavy "cando" type of stuff...02:40
sky123_anyhow..the assessments i believe should be tied into grading02:40
ignassound advanced, though it might be very specific ...02:40
sky123_so you can measure a childs growth..02:40
sky123_ignas: in fact it is red hot in california to be able to do this02:41
sky123_because most teachers attempt to do this on paper and cannot meet the shear volume of information that needs to be stored.02:41
sky123_imagine 36 kids per class...multiplied by 4 doing individual assessments02:42
sky123_there has gotta be a tool help do this02:42
sky123_ALSO...check this out..the state of california has standards... imagine a schooltool module that pulls those standards...and gives a space for teachers to create lessons02:42
sky123_then against those lessons and concepts can be assessed02:43
sky123_as the childs compentency02:43
sky123_then you can measure growth02:43
sky123_thats the idea02:43
sky123_lol :)02:43
ignaswell, I can only provide minimal help with that though02:44
sky123_standard---lesson--calender------ assessment-----grade02:44
sky123_like that??02:44
ignastips about the code, and effort not to break anything on your side ...02:44
sky123_no problem...i guess im just trying to understand what is the "model" that schooltool will server eductors under...02:45
sky123_and hey Im open to hearing about it.. :)02:45
sky123_serve educators...woops02:45
ignaswell, at the moment schooltool need the vital systems working properly first02:46
sky123_got it02:46
sky123_to stabilize the core..02:46
sky123_I certainly understand that02:46
ignasno, become useful actually02:46
ignasi will probably have to even destabilize the core a bit02:47
sky123_I will certainly take a look at the source..and also the the section on creating the development environment02:47
ignasas none of schooltools features had actual users02:47
ignasthere are a lot of things that are just not suitable for actual work02:47
sky123_i see02:47
sky123_its very conceptual then..02:47
ignaslists of users are in random order, timetable events can't have any information attached to them and simmilar usability stuff02:48
sky123_it looks as if its a deconstruction before the construction...02:54
ignaswell, i had to learn how to manage a project sooner or later ;)02:56
sky123_ignas: are you the core manager for schooltool?02:56
ignaswhen it comes to code - yes, probably02:56
ignasas for the whole project, th1a is the guy02:56
th1aI'm on the phone...02:57
th1aOK, let me look at the backlog here.02:57
th1aShouldn't you be asleep ignas?02:57
sky123_i see. Id love to have a good solid conversation about the "pedagogical model for schooltool" and how its constinuent components may meet that...who do i speak to about that??02:57
sky123_th1a: so you have been fingered! :)02:58
sky123_hopefully i dont get the finger back ;)02:58
ignasth1a: yep, but i promissed i would do some time tracking so ... ;)02:59
th1aOK, caught up.02:59
th1aThe underlying design we did for the gradebook is really solid and robust,03:00
sky123_I see03:00
th1aand also is used in CanDo, so there can be a common base for both standards-based and graded assessment.03:00
th1aActually, I should probably look at that code again quickly to remind myself what is there.03:01
sky123_so it kind of sits in "concept" land...but needs the effort to get it to be driven into code I suppose.03:01
th1aGimme a second here...03:01
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th1aThis actually represents a lot of good design work:
sky123_I will look in it...03:04
sky123_Do you mind if I send feedback on it??03:04 and give my two cents??03:04
th1asky123_:  Please do.  We should have a phone or skype conversation if you want more background/context on the project.03:05
sky123_sounds good03:05
th1aI'm in Rhode Island.03:05
sky123_Im in California03:05
sky123_just name the time or pm me03:05
sky123_and we can set something up03:06
th1aSometime tomorrow?03:06
sky123_I think that would be good... you're like 3 hours difference??03:06
th1aIt is 8:07 here.03:06
sky123_on the dot 3hrs03:06
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sky123_I work in the world of voip now...9-503:07
sky123_so if i call you my time at 6:30 on my cell03:07
th1aOh yeah, on Asterix.03:07
sky123_that yould be 9pm your time03:07
sky123_yep Asterisk and freeswitch03:07
th1aYes.  That would be fine.  My wife will be at orchestra rehearsal.03:08
sky123_but mainly making sure it works well on linux03:08
sky123_what does she play??03:08
sky123_or is it operatic??03:08
th1aShe plays violin, just in the local college orchestra.03:08
th1aSort of a community ringer.03:08
sky123_I used to play its just the radio...and i have trouble doing that now03:09
sky123_he he03:09
sky123_so lets see do you just want to send it to my email?03:09
th1aOh, phone?03:09
sky123_the number that is.. or how shall we pass info03:09
sky123_or do you want to do it on here03:10
sky123_or pm03:10
sky123_or whatever??03:10
th1aWhat's your email?03:10
sky123_ill be on the road for about an hour and figured id just call you03:10
sky123_i know its not good practice to post up email...but this is important enough to me..03:11
th1aOh, sorry.03:11
sky123_no problem...its all good03:11
th1aI just let GMail filter my piles of spam.03:11
th1aDid you send me an email over the weekend?03:12
sky123_like i said this "project" conceptually has been on my mind now for 7+ years03:12
th1aThere is unquestionably a need for it.03:12
sky123_the only thing before school tool was a project that is now nearly dead called Bessie the Annihilator from a couple of guys in Cambridge03:12
sky123_dont even know if its alive...its was php and mysql03:13
th1aThere is Centre, which is the only one getting much traction.03:13
th1aBut it is pretty bad php.03:13
sky123_okay...will check for the email03:13
th1aAnd OpenAdmin, which is also php.03:13
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th1asky123_ sent.03:14
sky123_got it...thanks03:14
sky123_nice to meet you name is Akash....which means sky in Bengali...hence the handle03:15
th1aAh, I see.03:16
sky123_6:30 it is...looking forward to our conversation03:17
th1aI'm sorry I hadn't yet replied to your email.03:18
sky123_no problem03:18
th1aI must admit I've gotten so many emails from people who would like to help that have led to nothing that I'm losing my enthusiasm for answering.03:19
th1aWhich is also why we need some enthusiastic new blood to kick me in the ass.03:19
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sky123_This "stuff" is seriously in my you'll get the necessary pushing :)03:20
sky123_I think the time is VERY VERY good to make some serious strides on this03:21
sky123_and doesnt hurt to have Mark's backing on this stuff03:21
th1aI'm a teacher and pretty heavily invested in the assessment end of this.03:22
sky123_AHHH....NOW we are talking!03:22
sky123_I agree..03:22
th1aSo yes, we should have plenty to talk about.03:22
sky123_I personally had to deal with this as a teacher a "project based" school and this was EXACTLY the crux if you will.. so yeah...lets talk more later03:23
th1aThanks for coming by. ;-)03:23
ignasgood night03:29
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sky123_thnx you guys...time to hit the 101 FWY for me :)03:30
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povbot`/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6444:18:08
povbot`/svn/commits: Add a small bit of sanity to calendar event onHover.18:08
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* jinty starts to release the schooltool 2006 beta20:37
povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 6445:20:41
povbot`/svn/commits: Tagging 2006.0-beta120:41
Lumierejinty: I have our svn internal up20:44
Lumierewe'll be testing whatever bugs have been committed today20:44
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jintyLumiere: great, I think help fixing schooltool bugs would be much appreciated20:51
jintybecause it looks like nobody is doing much of that now.20:51
Lumieremost of our testing is on cando20:51
LumiereI don't know if we're hitting any schooltool bugs yet20:51
jintywell, there is at least one you hit regularly20:52
Lumierethe skin?20:52
jintymore of a missing feature really20:52
toxygenis schooltool going to be skinnable?>20:53
Lumiereby skin... I am talking about the UI stuff...20:54
Lumiereand there are 2 bits20:54
Lumierethe schooltool skin and cando has a skin as well20:55
jintytoxygen: it is skinable in a very hackish way right now, but resolving would make it non-hackish20:55
Lumiereyes please :)20:55
povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 6446:20:56
povbot`/svn/commits: Set version number as 2006.0-beta120:56
jintyunfortunately I only have the volunteer time available to make releases and keep the build system up to date20:56
jintyand make packages...20:58
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povbot`/svn/commits: * jfroche committed revision 6447:21:35
povbot`/svn/commits: * exporting to XML * cleanup * mapping between roundup status and malone status * mapping between roundup priority and malone importance21:35
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