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| jfroche | hello *, anyone knows the version of roundup installed at issues.schooltool.org ? | 12:59 |
|---|---|---|
| jinty | dpkg-query -s roundup | grep Version | 13:00 |
| jinty | Version: 0.8.4-1ubuntu1 | 13:00 |
| jfroche | thanks a lot | 13:00 |
| jfroche | i ll ask th1a to have access on fs to this one | 13:01 |
| jinty | hmm, I can send you a tarball of the instance if you like | 13:02 |
| jfroche | oh yes please | 13:04 |
| jfroche | i was about to install the same version to try out | 13:04 |
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| jfroche | whats the roundup backend used for schooltool | 13:06 |
| jfroche | ? | 13:06 |
| jinty | hmm, filesystem I guess | 13:07 |
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| jinty | [USN-360-1] awstats vulnerabilities... | 13:17 |
| * jinty really doesn't want awstats on the schooltool server | 13:18 | |
| jinty | jfroche: sending you a mail with the dump | 13:18 |
| jfroche | thanks | 13:18 |
| jfroche | jinty: about awstats: even if you setup Auth at the apache level ? | 13:22 |
| jinty | yeah, we can secure it. But if we avoid it, we don't have to secure it | 13:24 |
| jinty | Unless of course awstats brings you something that a static html system doesn't | 13:24 |
| jfroche | would like to know who goes where and at which frenquency | 13:24 |
| * jinty must admit that he's never used awstats | 13:24 | |
| jfroche | i use it on 2 of my server with secure access, no problem | 13:25 |
| jinty | I'll have a look into it | 13:28 |
| jfroche | jinty: thanks again! | 13:40 |
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| th1a | jinty: feel free to get rid of awstats. I've actually been using Google Analytics anyhow. | 16:25 |
| ignas | hi | 16:26 |
| th1a | ignas: hi. | 16:26 |
| th1a | How are things in Vilnius? | 16:26 |
| ignas | well, i got data imported and launched a public instance of schooltool for the teacxher i a mworking with | 16:26 |
| ignas | and got bitten painfully a few times | 16:27 |
| ignas | 1) i18n does not work | 16:27 |
| ignas | 2) gradebook is not usable, at all, in no way | 16:27 |
| th1a | Yes, gradebook isn't usable at all right now. | 16:28 |
| ignas | i got a traceback with lyceums usecase | 16:28 |
| ignas | 3) timetables are not flexible enough at the moment to support the usecase | 16:28 |
| ignas | they kind of work, but need some improvement | 16:28 |
| *** jinty has quit IRC | 16:29 | |
| ignas | the lithuanian usecase of groups of students in sections was not thought out well enough apparently | 16:29 |
| th1a | Really? What's the problem with sections? | 16:29 |
| ignas | well, problems are with groups mostly | 16:30 |
| ignas | section names spring to mind too | 16:30 |
| th1a | Yes, that's needed to be fixed for a while. | 16:30 |
| ignas | as for the gradebook | 16:31 |
| ignas | is anyone working on it ? | 16:31 |
| th1a | That would be you ;-) | 16:32 |
| ignas | :) | 16:32 |
| th1a | Stephan's dropping it was the trainwreck of the year. | 16:32 |
| ignas | oh | 16:32 |
| th1a | That's why, you know, we didn't release or deploy anything this fall. | 16:33 |
| ignas | oh and 4) more than 1 timetable schema *is* a common usecase (2/2 institutions i helped to migrate timetables to use them) | 16:33 |
| ignas | th1a: i see, i kind of managed to skip that bit of information | 16:33 |
| th1a | Yes, I knew 4. | 16:33 |
| ignas | i am thinking of setting up a bug tracker for lyceum | 16:34 |
| th1a | The gradebook was going to be re-written when the terms were done. | 16:35 |
| th1a | Finishing the terms is probably high on the list of things to do. | 16:35 |
| ignas | finishing terms ? | 16:35 |
| th1a | So you and jfroche_ will have to figure that out. | 16:35 |
| th1a | Stephan and I re-designed the terms. | 16:36 |
| ignas | oh | 16:36 |
| th1a | There's a branch, which is more or less done. | 16:36 |
| th1a | So here's the thing... | 16:36 |
| th1a | right now, terms are just bunches of dates. | 16:36 |
| th1a | But terms also have to represent the structure of the school year. | 16:37 |
| ignas | ? | 16:37 |
| th1a | Specifically, they are hierarchical. | 16:37 |
| th1a | In the US, you have the school year, | 16:37 |
| th1a | and semesters and trimesters, | 16:37 |
| ignas | so you added 1 more level of containers ? | 16:37 |
| th1a | and usually grading periods within the semesters. | 16:37 |
| th1a | There are are a few default cases. | 16:38 |
| th1a | Not infinitely nestable, thankfully. | 16:38 |
| th1a | Anyhow, you can't really do grading for real without it, | 16:38 |
| th1a | since you have to be able to assign the grades to a given term. | 16:38 |
| th1a | Although it complicated things, of course, specifically every time the application asks for the current term. | 16:39 |
| ignas | ouch | 16:39 |
| ignas | should be handled better to be usable, and i think it is possible to | 16:40 |
| ignas | i guess i'll discuss this with Skūpas and ask him what are their priorities | 16:41 |
| th1a | That's the idea. | 16:41 |
| ignas | if they can use the system without grading in place it might be wise to polish other rough edges first and as soon as they can use the working parts, work heavily on grading | 16:41 |
| ignas | jfroche_: are you there ? | 16:42 |
| th1a | And indeed, the point of changing to this approach is that you don't have to initially make the globally applicable term implementation, but one that works for them. | 16:42 |
| ignas | one of the requests was to merge the attendance view and grading to make up a "teacher view" for a particular "meeting" | 16:44 |
| th1a | Sure. | 16:45 |
| th1a | There is a whole universe of views and reports to explore. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Teachers are, for some reason, more interested in what they can get out of the system than how much they can put in ;-0 | 16:46 |
| th1a | ;-) | 16:46 |
| ignas | :) | 16:46 |
| ignas | as for put in, i nearly missed todays daily meeting, because i have managed to put in a cup of Coke into my keyboard | 16:47 |
| ignas | irc meeting i mean | 16:49 |
| ignas | now what are the plans for the contract ? should Aiste just review and translate it, or are we waiting for the french one? | 16:50 |
| th1a | Does the contract seem ok to you? Anything missing? | 16:52 |
| th1a | I guess I'll go over it again and send another draft if necessary tonight that could be translated tomorrow. | 16:55 |
| ignas | "another qualified developer will be provided by Programmers of Vilnius SchoolTool" - should ask Aiste about that as this concerns PoV not just schooltool/lyceum | 16:55 |
| th1a | Do you have one of the ThinkPad's with the drainage under the keyboard? | 16:55 |
| ignas | "provide a local server" - i didn't really understand what precicely is meant by this | 16:56 |
| th1a | Yes, ask Aiste about that. | 16:56 |
| ignas | th1a: no, my thinkpad has no drainage | 16:56 |
| th1a | Mine does, but I haven't tested it yet. | 16:56 |
| th1a | We could buy them a server. | 16:56 |
| th1a | Or, on the other hand, would it make more sense to upgrade their internet connectivity? | 16:57 |
| ignas | oh, it means "local relatively to the school" | 16:57 |
| th1a | Yes, local to them. | 16:58 |
| ignas | as for the connectivity, i'll ask Skūpas about it, though conectivity costs money per month thus after the end of the project they'd be left to pay the increased bill | 16:59 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:00 |
| th1a | I just thought I'd mention that it would be a possibility. | 17:00 |
| th1a | If it was actually more efficient. | 17:00 |
| th1a | So what's your work status, ignas? | 17:02 |
| ignas | didn't touch UI for the last few days, as I was working on fixing some minor glitches in schooltool, mangling setuptools to allow instalation of schooltool without Root permissions on dapper | 17:03 |
| ignas | and importing data | 17:03 |
| ignas | i have a daily attendance view working as a tab though | 17:04 |
| ignas | yet haven't yet thinked of what information should be displayed in weekly/monthly ones | 17:04 |
| th1a | When will you be on ST full time? | 17:04 |
| ignas | as soon as i'll finish/abandon the UI redesign | 17:05 |
| ignas | and will focus all the attention to bugfixes/ feature requests of lyceum | 17:06 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:06 |
| th1a | Hopefully it won't be necessary to abandon it... | 17:07 |
| th1a | Do you feel like it is an improvement overall? | 17:07 |
| th1a | I think it is much better in general. | 17:07 |
| ignas | a good idea, but needs a lot of work to use it for the whole schooltool | 17:08 |
| ignas | administration was not designed with this style of navigation, and a lot of actions are in action menus | 17:09 |
| ignas | but that is the problem of our old UI not the new one | 17:10 |
| ignas | all the actions were being added without any thought about their importance/ usability of the application | 17:10 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:11 |
| ignas | so we have a huge backlog of "thinking" and designing ;) | 17:13 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:13 |
| th1a | So one thing to do is to figure out which parts to expose and test first. | 17:13 |
| th1a | Rather than trying to move everything around at once. | 17:13 |
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| ignas | yes | 17:14 |
| th1a | ignas: How do you think we should manage the various modifications for different schools? | 17:16 |
| th1a | Different branches in svn? | 17:16 |
| ignas | depends on modifications, different branches for school specific work (don't know any examples of such thing yet) | 17:16 |
| ignas | and trunk for common bugfixes | 17:17 |
| ignas | (sort ersons in attendance views alphabetically ) | 17:17 |
| ignas | s/ersons/persons | 17:17 |
| th1a | Yes, I suppose we don't have to come up with a complex solution before the fact. | 17:17 |
| th1a | hm... jfroche_ must have gotten the time confused... | 17:18 |
| jinty | ignas: I fixed a bit of the i18n last night, make update-translations should actually work | 17:23 |
| jinty | th1a: thanks for the info on awstats | 17:23 |
| th1a | jinty: You have wide discretion to kill useless things on that server. | 17:24 |
| jinty | it was already dead, but jfroche_ wanted to ressurect it | 17:24 |
| jinty | I'll just point him in the direction of you and Google Analytics in future | 17:25 |
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| ignas | jinty: trying myself, vidas tried extract-translations/update-translations and didn't get any wthings translated ... | 17:25 |
| ignas | even with ++lang++lt | 17:25 |
| jinty | ignas: the .po files wer not being compiled to .mo files | 17:26 |
| vidas1 | jinty: update-translations failed with 'schooltool.po not found' | 17:26 |
| ignas | src/schooltool/locales/lt/LC_MESSAGES$ ls | 17:27 |
| ignas | schoolbell.po | 17:27 |
| ignas | oh | 17:27 |
| ignas | forgot to svn up | 17:27 |
| ignas | :D | 17:27 |
| th1a | jinty: OK, I see. I missed why it came up in the first place. | 17:27 |
| ignas | jinty: lot's of msgmerge: internationalized messages should not contain the `\r' escape sequence | 17:29 |
| jinty | ignas, vidas1: It works for me because I have a dirty checkout. | 17:29 |
| ignas | msgmerge: error while opening "src/schooltool/locales//*/LC_MESSAGES/schooltool.po" for reading: No such file or directory | 17:29 |
| jinty | there are actually no schooltool translations in the repository | 17:29 |
| ignas | oh | 17:29 |
| jinty | there's a comment in the makefile about how to get them from launchpad | 17:31 |
| jinty | it worked when I wrote it, whether it still does depends on how much has changed in launchpad | 17:31 |
| ignas | as the instruction tells to "get tarballs" | 17:32 |
| ignas | it should still be accurate :) | 17:32 |
| * jinty is a specilist in vague documentation that remains accurate for a long time;) | 17:33 | |
| ignas | should someone should go through schooltool and erradicate notions of schoolbell in i18n by replacing them with schooltool + merge translations in rosetta? | 17:35 |
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| ignas | jinty: as the one who understands the i18n stuff, would it be a benefit to schooltool to have only 1 domain not 2? | 17:42 |
| jfroche_ | ignas: th1a hello | 17:54 |
| jfroche_ | sorry for being late | 17:54 |
| th1a | hi jfroche_ | 17:54 |
| *** jfroche_ is now known as jfroche | 17:54 | |
| ignas | hi | 17:54 |
| th1a | jfroche: Do you have a gmail account? | 17:56 |
| jfroche | no why? | 17:56 |
| th1a | I've been using google analytics for SchoolTool.org site analysis. | 17:56 |
| jfroche | is it enough? | 17:57 |
| th1a | Well, for me, but I don't have any sophisticated needs. | 17:57 |
| th1a | Perhaps you should take a look at it. | 17:57 |
| jfroche | I would like to know who comes where on the site | 17:57 |
| jfroche | i ll look yes | 17:58 |
| th1a | Yes, it'll tell you that. | 17:58 |
| th1a | Once again, I think you need to make an account and I need to give you permission. | 17:58 |
| jfroche | but i don't see the problem to setup an awstats with a secure apache access | 17:58 |
| th1a | Yes, I suppose it shouldn't really be a problem. | 17:59 |
| jfroche | jinty: told me he is looking at it | 17:59 |
| th1a | The history of this stuff is one of our former developers set up this server and then left, and jinty has been turning things off that he inherited but we don't use. | 17:59 |
| jfroche | i see yes | 18:00 |
| th1a | And the Plone site has been limping along under my limited skills. | 18:00 |
| jfroche | i will need an access on the filesystem | 18:00 |
| th1a | So things like setting up a proper development instance should probably be done. | 18:00 |
| th1a | Yes... is jinty still here? | 18:01 |
| jfroche | yes as i told you prefer not to work on the production site | 18:01 |
| jfroche | i saw that you gave me admin access on the plone | 18:01 |
| jfroche | saw the first page template, shouldn't take long to change this | 18:01 |
| jfroche | and saw that you are using a skinning product | 18:02 |
| jfroche | which is already a good step | 18:02 |
| th1a | I tried using Plone Software Center and the documentation product (Plone Help Center?) but that proved to be too much complication. | 18:03 |
| th1a | So there are bits of those hanging around but we should purge them entirely. | 18:03 |
| th1a | And also we'll be simplifying our "product line." | 18:04 |
| * jinty is back | 18:04 | |
| jfroche | ok i note this | 18:04 |
| th1a | SchoolTool Calendar and SchoolBell will be moving to a more explicitly deprecated status. | 18:04 |
| th1a | Although they'll still be available. | 18:05 |
| jfroche | plone help center is a really nice peace of code | 18:05 |
| th1a | Well, perhaps if you actually understand it (which I didn't, really) we could make better use of it. | 18:05 |
| th1a | If I've learned nothing else in this project I've learned to value simplicity. | 18:06 |
| jfroche | ok first good point would be to setup a dev instance | 18:07 |
| th1a | Yep. | 18:07 |
| jinty | re: development instance, the server is already in swap death most of the time with the demo site and plone. Having a dev instance is not really within our memory budget. | 18:08 |
| th1a | jinty: Can you set up jfroche with a shell account on www.schooltool.org? | 18:08 |
| jinty | yeah | 18:08 |
| jfroche | 500 Mo ? | 18:08 |
| th1a | Can the dev instance be somewhere else? | 18:08 |
| jinty | I'll also make a plone admin group and make him part of it | 18:08 |
| th1a | Should we just shut down the demo site? Or move it to the other server? | 18:08 |
| ignas | th1a: what do you mean by dev instance? | 18:08 |
| th1a | Moving it probably makes more sense. | 18:09 |
| jinty | that way he can have filesystem access to plone | 18:09 |
| th1a | Of the website. | 18:09 |
| th1a | ignas: Development version of the site. | 18:09 |
| jinty | yeah, we could move the dev site to the other server. | 18:09 |
| jinty | we would just have to migrate the demo.schooltool.org | 18:09 |
| ignas | th1a: schooltool.org plone site ? | 18:09 |
| th1a | ignas: Yes. | 18:09 |
| jinty | s/dev/demo/ | 18:10 |
| jfroche | so you have 2 server | 18:10 |
| th1a | jfroche: Yes. | 18:11 |
| th1a | We have a somewhat beefier server for testing with partner schools. | 18:11 |
| th1a | So you'll need access to that one too. | 18:11 |
| th1a | Presumably you'll be using it for your schools. | 18:11 |
| th1a | The Lyceum will need a local server probably. | 18:12 |
| jfroche | school don't want to put their data outside of the school for the moment | 18:12 |
| th1a | Ah. OK. | 18:13 |
| th1a | Do they have a server? | 18:13 |
| jfroche | i will provide them a server | 18:13 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:13 |
| jinty | jfroche: mind sending me a public ssh key? | 18:13 |
| jfroche | @mail ? | 18:14 |
| jinty | yep | 18:14 |
| jfroche | jinty: what's you email address ? | 18:15 |
| jinty | ah, jinty@web.de, thought you had it... | 18:16 |
| th1a | jinty: Why don't we move the demo instance to the other server. | 18:16 |
| jinty | yep, it's on my todo list | 18:16 |
| th1a | jfroche: What's the name of Denis's school again? | 18:16 |
| th1a | jinty: Thanks | 18:16 |
| jfroche | th1a: Athénée Royal Vauban | 18:17 |
| jinty | todo: 1. get jfroche setup as shell user with filesystem access to plone. 2. move the demo schooltool server. 3. setup dev instance of plone 4. setup awstats behind a secure apache and give jfroche the keys | 18:18 |
| jfroche | jinty: mail sent | 18:18 |
| jfroche | jinty: i will need write access to the dev instance products and permission to restart the server | 18:19 |
| jinty | Write access I can give you, but i'm not sure how to easily give you permission to restart | 18:20 |
| jinty | unless you can do it from the control panel | 18:20 |
| th1a | jfroche: Named after the military engineer? | 18:20 |
| jfroche | depend if you open a port under 1000 | 18:20 |
| jinty | no, we use virtual hosting | 18:20 |
| jfroche | th1a: military engineer ? | 18:21 |
| th1a | Vauban? | 18:21 |
| th1a | Or a different Vauban? | 18:21 |
| jfroche | wow good question, i ll ask :) | 18:22 |
| jinty | jfroche: Ok then, I'll have a look if I can get this all done tomorrow, but definitely by monday. | 18:22 |
| jfroche | jinty: i am a sysadmin for other clients so if i can help you | 18:23 |
| jinty | probably better not to have too many chefs stirring the pot;) | 18:24 |
| jfroche | no problem | 18:24 |
| jfroche | th1a: i begin the migration of Roundup to Malone | 18:25 |
| jfroche | i have code for this, where should i commit it ? | 18:25 |
| th1a | Code to automate the transition? | 18:25 |
| jfroche | right | 18:26 |
| *** jinty has quit IRC | 18:27 | |
| jfroche | we provide a list of the issue ID in Roundup and i export them with their history and comment to XML so that Steve can import it | 18:28 |
| jfroche | th1a: sounds ok for you ? | 18:28 |
| th1a | Ah. OK. Sounds good. | 18:28 |
| jfroche | something else could you provide me a contract | 18:28 |
| jfroche | that shouldnt be long, just describing my activities and the price we spoke about | 18:30 |
| th1a | Yes... we just need some goals for the rest of the calendar year. | 18:32 |
| th1a | Let's see... | 18:32 |
| th1a | * revamping schooltool.org; | 18:32 |
| th1a | * migrating bugs; | 18:32 |
| th1a | (those are mine) | 18:32 |
| jfroche | * installing new server for school for the school | 18:33 |
| th1a | What are the schools' priorities and how much can we get done in 2.5 months? | 18:33 |
| th1a | OK... | 18:33 |
| jfroche | * looking at the software they are using for the moment | 18:33 |
| jfroche | => understand how to export data from it | 18:33 |
| jfroche | => see the difference (advantages/disadvantages) with schooltool | 18:34 |
| jfroche | \=> this will be important to push them stop using the other one and using SchoolTool | 18:34 |
| jfroche | * import data in schooltool | 18:36 |
| jfroche | * oblige them to use schooltool and make them forget the other one | 18:36 |
| th1a | The other one? | 18:37 |
| th1a | Hm... I didn't realize we had a competitor at Vauban. | 18:38 |
| jfroche | the one they are using now | 18:38 |
| th1a | What is that? | 18:38 |
| jfroche | proprietary software named isis | 18:39 |
| th1a | How long have they used it? | 18:39 |
| ignas | is isis better than schooltool ? | 18:40 |
| th1a | One would hope it is right now. | 18:40 |
| th1a | jfroche: OK, well, I think there is much more coding to be done than you realize. | 18:42 |
| jfroche | i cant know yet if it's better | 18:43 |
| th1a | If it works it is better. | 18:43 |
| th1a | If it is done it is better. | 18:43 |
| jfroche | but it's expensive for them | 18:43 |
| ignas | school is paying for the system? | 18:44 |
| th1a | OK. Do they like it or curse it? | 18:44 |
| jfroche | right | 18:44 |
| ignas | ouch | 18:44 |
| jfroche | that I should ask to Denis and Nicolas | 18:45 |
| jfroche | they spoke politics with the school director | 18:45 |
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| jfroche | th1a: you see it as a problem ? | 18:46 |
| th1a | Only insofar as I'd like them to actually use SchoolTool at the end of the process. | 18:47 |
| jfroche | that's my aim right | 18:48 |
| jfroche | and Denis and Nicolas one | 18:48 |
| jfroche | some teachers are already interested | 18:48 |
| th1a | OK. As long as I understand the situation. | 18:48 |
| th1a | Anyhow, the " * oblige them to use schooltool and make them forget the other one" is at least six months out. | 18:49 |
| jfroche | right that's not for the end of this year | 18:49 |
| th1a | One question is if we'd like them to use our calendaring features in the near term. | 18:50 |
| th1a | That should be possible. | 18:50 |
| th1a | And probably a wise first step. | 18:50 |
| jfroche | I think that they don't have the calendaring feature in the isis system | 18:50 |
| jfroche | which is good for us | 18:51 |
| jfroche | today i had to go to the school for Denis to present me to the secretary and to look at isis but he is ill | 18:53 |
| jfroche | Denis gave the paper we did to get me and Nicolas the authorisations to get and use their data in ST | 18:54 |
| jfroche | we are waiting for an answer from the authorities now | 18:54 |
| jfroche | there is no reason for them to say no | 18:55 |
| jfroche | but if they do i don't know what i will be able to do... | 18:55 |
| * th1a is showering. | 18:57 | |
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| th1a | jfroche: OK. Let's hope they say yes. It is crucial to get to know the secretaries, as well. | 19:11 |
| jfroche | right guess i ll do that tomorrow or the day after | 19:11 |
| jfroche | th1a: do you have everything in hand to do my contract ? | 19:12 |
| th1a | Hrm... I'm not trying to just stall here, but I really need to be able to tell Mark what you're going to be doing. So we'd better get the word back from Vauban about the data authorization, and you and Denis should decide a rough strategy for what to do first. | 19:14 |
| th1a | i.e., start with the calendar. | 19:14 |
| th1a | Or whatever makes sense. | 19:14 |
| th1a | Same with Nicolas & La Futaie. | 19:15 |
| th1a | I don't need a detailed plan at all, but just a general one. | 19:15 |
| jfroche | right ok... i just would like to be sure that the day i send you my monthly bill you won't say wait we need something else | 19:18 |
| jfroche | th1a: i guess it's for the same reasons that you prefer to wait for the official announce ? | 19:28 |
| jfroche | got to go, let's continue this on email. Thanks | 19:35 |
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