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| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6416: | 15:18 |
|---|---|---|
| povbot | /svn/commits: Remove warnings that were showing up when running unit tests. | 15:18 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6417: | 15:20 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Backport fix for issue493: all day events and time zones to schoolbell 1.2.x branch | 15:20 |
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| ignas | hi | 16:26 |
| th1a | hey. | 16:30 |
| th1a | How are things in Vilnius? | 16:30 |
| ignas | yesterday Gintas talked to Liceum director | 16:31 |
| ignas | as he is very busy now, we will only be able to meet him on friday | 16:31 |
| th1a | OK. That's something. | 16:32 |
| ignas | but from what Gintas told me, he was interested in the idea | 16:32 |
| ignas | Vidas is working on the html fallback for the date widget used in navigation but as he's absent on Mondays, Tuesdays i can't tell much about the progress | 16:33 |
| ignas | I am working on new attendance views and a convenient way to add new tabs | 16:33 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:33 |
| ignas | and dispatch views according to the role of a person logged in | 16:34 |
| ignas | did you see the proposal i sent you ? | 16:34 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:34 |
| th1a | It seems fine. | 16:34 |
| ignas | oh and i did the backport of the "all day events and time zones" issue to schoolbell 1.2.x | 16:35 |
| th1a | Oh... we'd need to release that at some point then. | 16:35 |
| ignas | i'd say that we should move to Zope3.3 if we want to do another release of Schoolbell/Schooltool | 16:36 |
| ignas | as it will get released some time soonish | 16:36 |
| ignas | or maybe not, I'd like to hear jinty's opinion on it | 16:36 |
| th1a | Hrm... as long as it wouldn't become a time sink. | 16:36 |
| th1a | Yes, we'll have to ask jinty. | 16:37 |
| ignas | if he can do a release depending on Zope3.2 that would save some time for us | 16:37 |
| ignas | seen http://vidas.pov.lt/st-live/calendar ? | 16:38 |
| th1a | I think it is a bit shadowy. | 16:38 |
| th1a | And curvy. | 16:38 |
| th1a | The bent tabs are a bit much. | 16:39 |
| ignas | "bent tabs"? | 16:39 |
| ignas | as in tabs with rounded corners? | 16:39 |
| th1a | The shadows in the corner of the tabs. | 16:39 |
| ignas | oh | 16:39 |
| th1a | It looks like they're bent. | 16:39 |
| ignas | that's programmers art by Vidas ;) had no time to fix it | 16:40 |
| th1a | No problem. The general visual style of SchoolTool has been well received. I don't want to change that. | 16:40 |
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| th1a | OK... so I need to really figure out how to do some SIF stuff with SchoolTool. | 16:42 |
| th1a | I'm still confused about how I should incorporate a HTTP client into SchoolTool. | 16:43 |
| ignas | i guess i could try and help you if you would provide me with some exact requirements | 16:44 |
| th1a | I have 280 pages of exact requirements ;-) | 16:44 |
| th1a | Seriously, though... | 16:44 |
| th1a | The SIF "Agent" will have to send messages to the SIF Zone Integration Server, | 16:45 |
| th1a | to register itself, indicate what it subscribes to and provides, etc. | 16:45 |
| ignas | seems like Webservice/SOA stuff | 16:45 |
| th1a | Indeed. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Although somewhat primitive/out of date. | 16:46 |
| th1a | Same idea though. | 16:46 |
| ignas | apparently it was a useful course to attend in the university ;) | 16:46 |
| th1a | So I suppose sending these messages will probably be triggered by a form on a control panel. | 16:46 |
| ignas | is there a test server to try integration on ? | 16:46 |
| th1a | Indeed: http://tinyzis.org | 16:47 |
| th1a | I'm releasing version 0.1 this week. | 16:47 |
| ignas | nice | 16:48 |
| ignas | so the thing you need is a view that has a form which when submited registers schooltool with a ZIS server (url of the server is inserted into a field of the form) | 16:49 |
| jinty | sorry i"m late | 16:50 |
| ignas | parses the response of the ZIS server and shows our user a confirmation / report of problems that were encountered | 16:50 |
| th1a | So just some view code that starts up, say, an HTTPSConnection in a thread? | 16:50 |
| th1a | I guess it doesn't really need to be in a thread even? | 16:51 |
| th1a | Since we'll want to provide the reply to the user. | 16:51 |
| ignas | yes i think so | 16:51 |
| th1a | Is SchoolTool already threaded enough to not block everything waiting for the reply? | 16:51 |
| ignas | well Zope3 gives you at least 4 worker threads | 16:52 |
| th1a | OK... I guess I was making this more complicated than I needed to. | 16:52 |
| th1a | I freak out when I run into things like threads. | 16:53 |
| th1a | That's where you need a real programmer. | 16:53 |
| ignas | :) | 16:53 |
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| th1a | Hi jinty. | 16:53 |
| th1a | Just to keep things interesting, ignas has helpfully back-ported a bugfix to the old SchoolTool Calendar/SchoolBell branches. | 16:54 |
| jinty | yeah, I noticed | 16:54 |
| jinty | I can make a 1.2.5 release against zope3.2, but I can't actually package it | 16:55 |
| * ignas goes to test a possible DOS for Zope3 | 16:56 | |
| jinty | If we want schoolbell in the next debian/ubuntu realeases, it's gotta run against 3.3 | 16:56 |
| th1a | Denial Of Service? | 16:56 |
| ignas | yes | 16:56 |
| th1a | Well, if we could provide a fix that worked for current users, that would be helpful. | 16:57 |
| jinty | perhaps we could make a 1.3.x schooltool branch from 1.2.x and invite to community to try make it work against 3.3? | 16:57 |
| ignas | there is a possibility that interfacing with a web service form inside of Zope3 might be as complex as you think it is ... | 16:57 |
| jinty | ignas: yeah if it's synchronous, just four people have to do it at the same time and you have 4 blocked threads. | 16:59 |
| ignas | or one guy must click the button 4 times | 16:59 |
| ignas | because he want the result sooner | 16:59 |
| jinty | yeah, or that;) | 17:00 |
| th1a | Is that the DOS you're referring to? | 17:00 |
| ignas | there is a thingie zc.async | 17:01 |
| ignas | we might have to use it | 17:02 |
| ignas | oh and it is experimental :/ | 17:02 |
| th1a | Ah... more thingies. | 17:02 |
| mgedmin | this may be interesting: http://svn.zope.org/zc.async/trunk/src/zc/async/README.txt?rev=69753&view=auto | 17:02 |
| mgedmin | but it seems to be just an "experiment, not ready for prime time" | 17:03 |
| th1a | What if I just made a lock so only one pending request could be sent to the ZIS at one time. | 17:03 |
| th1a | This isn't a common task. | 17:03 |
| th1a | It is just necessary administration. | 17:03 |
| ignas | is it the only time schooltool will be communicating with ZIS server ? | 17:05 |
| ignas | i mean will all the other requests go from ZIS to schooltool ? | 17:05 |
| th1a | Hm... I suppose the agent does have to send messages when objects change in ST's database. | 17:06 |
| th1a | So that's a more frequent case. | 17:06 |
| th1a | And automated. | 17:06 |
| th1a | Those need to be in threads. | 17:06 |
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| ignas | ouch | 17:10 |
| th1a | OTOH, it is a little easier to deal with because you don't have to return a web form or anything for those. | 17:10 |
| th1a | When you're sending a message in response to user input, you'd really prefer to wait for confirmation to load the new page. | 17:11 |
| th1a | But when you're reporting an automated event, it just has to send the message and wait for the Ack. | 17:11 |
| th1a | Which it can do pretty happily in a thread. | 17:12 |
| ignas | if launching additional threads in a Zope3 assuming that they will want to access ZODB is easy then ... | 17:13 |
| ignas | but i somehow doubt it | 17:13 |
| th1a | I suppose you're probably right. | 17:14 |
| th1a | I've been starting threads and opening new ZODB connections from inside them, but I guess that's a lot more low-level. | 17:14 |
| th1a | Plus I'm not 100% sure it works ;-) | 17:14 |
| th1a | Actually... when sending messages about changes, that would be a read-only operation. | 17:17 |
| th1a | Notwithstanding logging the events, perhaps. | 17:17 |
| ignas | or logging failure of network connection ? | 17:17 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:17 |
| ignas | even 200 Ok is a response so it's never read only | 17:18 |
| th1a | But you wouldn't have to log that to the ZODB, you could log it to a log. | 17:18 |
| ignas | and the cleanup of threads when the application is being shut down ... | 17:19 |
| ignas | with requests in progress etc. | 17:19 |
| th1a | Hm... can threads signal to their parents that they've completed successfully? | 17:20 |
| ignas | maybe | 17:20 |
| ignas | what if the parent is kind of gone ? | 17:21 |
| ignas | i mean which thread would be the parent of an async request ? | 17:22 |
| th1a | I think if the parent is killed the children are too. | 17:22 |
| th1a | A thread can be flagged as a ``daemon thread''. The significance of this flag is that the entire Python program exits when only daemon threads are left. The initial value is inherited from the creating thread. The flag can be set with the setDaemon() method and retrieved with the isDaemon() method | 17:23 |
| ignas | marius thinks that it is safe to spawn threads working with ZODB from a request | 17:26 |
| th1a | Well, I've figured out enough to get started at this point. | 17:27 |
| th1a | Thanks for your help. | 17:28 |
| th1a | Hopefully this will get me over my fear of SchoolTool development... | 17:28 |
| ignas | i'd try to use zc.async though first | 17:29 |
| th1a | Yeah, well, that's the kind of comment that gives people a fear of SchoolTool ;-0 | 17:32 |
| ignas | which one? | 17:36 |
| ignas | zc.async one ? | 17:36 |
| ignas | why ? | 17:37 |
| th1a | Just the, "oh, to solve that problem just integrate a new Zope library" comment. | 17:47 |
| th1a | Which, admittedly, may be better than writing a library myself. | 17:47 |
| th1a | But on the aggregate, there are just so many libraries and modules. | 17:47 |
| th1a | And new ones arriving every day. | 17:48 |
| ignas | well, everyone thinks that it's an upside of a platform | 17:48 |
| ignas | having a lot of libraries | 17:48 |
| th1a | Ultimately, not having these libraries is not a solution either, I know. | 17:48 |
| th1a | What we need is simpler problems! | 17:49 |
| th1a | That approach has worked for Rails ;-) | 17:49 |
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