IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2006-04-18

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povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5927:10:25
povbot/svn/commits: Added additional site preferences view for attendance status code editing.10:25
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povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5928:12:08
povbot/svn/commits: Test fix: use real adapder as adapter, not __init__.12:08
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povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5929:13:01
povbot/svn/commits: Updated sparkline generation code.13:01
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5930:13:03
povbot/svn/commits: Removed commented code.13:03
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5931:13:05
povbot/svn/commits: Snail food.13:05
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povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5932:13:48
povbot/svn/commits: Fixed the functional test.13:48
ignasPupeno, hi13:48
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povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5933:14:31
povbot/svn/commits: Allow conversion of homeroom absences into tardies through student attenance form.14:31
povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5934:15:07
povbot/svn/commits: Refactored ApplicationPreferences so that attendance preferences have their own place: AttendancePreferences.15:07
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povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5935:15:24
povbot/svn/commits: Made attendance sparkline show black dot when there is no section meeting.15:24
povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5936:15:27
povbot/svn/commits: Removed obsolete "evolution" code.15:27
povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5937:15:31
povbot/svn/commits: Sparkline: README update.15:31
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povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5938:15:47
povbot/svn/commits: Time-zone usage guidelines for schooltool.15:47
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povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5939:16:14
povbot/svn/commits: Moved "attendance tardy grace period" parameter into AttendancePreferences.16:14
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* th1a shuffles some papers.16:29
ignashi :)16:30
* th1a svn ups.16:30
th1ahi vidasp.  How are you feeling?16:30
vidaspok, I just forgot to ask you about "sane default values for the attendance status codes" :)16:31
th1avidasp:  Yes, I was thinking about that last night.16:32
vidaspth1a: everything I can come to myself is:  001: excused, 002: unexcused, 404: not found :)16:32
th1aChecking a reference...16:33
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th1avidasp:  Anyhow, I think I have high tech high's in my files.16:34
th1aI'll get that after the meeting.16:34
th1aSo... how close is POV now?16:34
ignaswell - as soon as you will supply the info vidas needs it's done i think16:35
ignasas we can't commit an evolution script that adds default values for codes16:36
th1aI want to spend most of the meeting going over your work, then.16:36
th1afaassen:  How are things in Rotterdam?16:36
faassenwell just returned from easter break and I have a cold coming on. :)16:36
th1aHow was Easter?16:37
faassengood, it was fun, spent time with my parents and siblings.16:37
faassenhunted for easter eggs (we never grow up :)16:37
* mgedmin almost didn't notice Easter16:37
faassenhey! chocolate easter eggs, mgedmin!16:37
th1aMy wife's family was here, so it was more Passover than Easter.16:38
th1aOK... access control.16:38
faassenok. :)16:38
th1aDid you get my response?16:38
faassenyes, though I haven't processed all your feedbacks yet.16:38
faassenwe should indeed put this in some form of comprehensible format, though that might be code for all I know. :)16:39
th1aOverall, it is pretty much on target.16:39
faassenthat's good to hear.16:39
faassenI just wanted to try spelling this stuff out.16:39
th1aI think probably a grid.16:39
faassenthere are quite a few rules.16:39
faassendo the POV people have comments on this?16:39
th1aWhat format should the grid be created in to optimize collaboration?16:39
alga_ehh, sorry, I haven't looked at it yet -- with Easter and all the deadlines we had16:40
th1aalga_:  I figured that was your state.16:40
faassenbasically I wrote down in human language a lot of possible access control rules for schooltool16:40
faassenwith the idea we would get some insights about how to encode this within the software.16:41
faassenpart of it would be encoded in a form of security system, part of it in the views.16:41
th1aWhen you catch your breath please note that there are a couple emails on the list from a guy who is working on alarm handling for SchoolTool's iCal parser.16:41
th1aHe seems to know what he is doing.16:41
ignassaw that, had no time to reply though :/16:42
ignashome he is using an svn checkout16:42
faassenanyway, concerning access control..16:42
ignasas i rewrote the parsing code on the trunk16:42
faassenwe could have some technical brainstorm session with whoever at POV is interested16:42
faassenat some opint.16:42
faassenon how to implement this in a maintainable way.16:42
ignasfaassen, as soon as i can fully understand "what do we want to implement"16:43
faassenI still want to explore a custom security policy myself, but whether that'll do the trick is of course something we'd need to find out.16:43
faassenignas: right, so read that document of mine to get some idea, hopefully.16:43
th1aSo... any suggestions as to table format?  Should I use HTML?16:44
* mgedmin itches to convert that list of human-readable access control rules into a functional doctest16:44
th1aThese simple questions drive me nuts.16:44
th1aASCII art?16:44
faassenmgedmin: yes, that might be a good approach.16:45
ignasASCII art :)16:45
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th1aNo preference?16:45
faassena functional doctest migh be brest. :)16:45
faassenI mean, that expresses it quite formally.16:45
ignasfaassen, the part of access control i am worried most is - the flexibility that we need, hardcoding the list you wrote is not that difficlut, but i still can't grok which parts of it should be modifiable and how ...16:45
faassenignas: well, security policies can be implemented to be subclassable.16:45
ignasth1a, ascii art can be converted into a doctest more easily16:45
faassenignas: I imagine that'll grow with a few iterations when we need it.16:46
mgedminformality is good, but verifiability is even better16:46
ignasfaassen, users don't usualy subclass stuff ...16:46
faassenmgedmin: sure.16:46
faassenanyway, shall we make it into a doctest?16:46
mgedminsufficiently advanced reStructuredText is insistinguishable from ASCII art16:46
faassenignas: users will go to the control panel and modify the security details there. that will be some explicit knobs, no infinite configurability.16:46
th1aOK reStructuredText.16:46
faassenignas: I imagine in some cases schools have special security policy requirements and they just get a setup with a new security policy.16:47
th1afaassen: Correct.16:47
mgedminyes, I also have that question: how much of the security policy is fixed, and how much is configurable by the site admins?16:47
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th1aWhat we're shooting for now is about 90% fixed.16:47
faassenI'd be happy if we could just capture these rules. I'm somewhat skeptical we actually *need* all that much user configurability.16:47
faassenconcerning security rules.16:47
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mgedminattack of the clones?16:48
faassenalga_: what what? :)16:48
alga_faassen: what 3 copies of me :-)16:48
th1aThere are only a few things that need any kind of flexible permissions.16:49
th1aResources do, since who can use them is likely to be highly specific.16:49
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ignasmgedmin, alga has multiple dhclients ? :)16:50
th1ae.g., mgedmin and alga can use projector a, vidasp and ignas can use projector b.16:50
th1aBut those cases aren't super critical at this point anyhow.16:50
faassenokay, we need to encapsulate those in the document too.16:50
faassenI think that's not exactly permissions, that's actually giving people or groups access to something.16:51
faassenwe already have that with sections too.16:51
faassenso yeah, that kind of stuff is configurable. it's just that I suspect the rules that do stuff with that information to enforce security won't need that much customization.16:51
th1aOK.  So I'll try to turn this into a table by next week.16:52
th1aI'd like to move on to POV's new code.16:53
th1aAny last words on access control?16:53
faassenhm, last word..16:53
faassenonce POV has read this, please relpy with feedback about how implementation might work to the lsit.16:53
faassenso we can have a discussion about it.16:54
faassenlike, how would the implementation work, performance issues, etc.16:54
alga+1 for taking the discussion to the list16:54
faassenthen we can take it back to IRC whenever needed.16:54
faassenone important bit about any security policy is that it'd need to perform decently.16:54
faassenso we need to think about whether that's a big concern or not given particular implementation choices.16:54
th1aYes, more discussion on list, please.16:55
th1aLet's go through these stories.16:56
th1aResource management/booking in timetables.16:56
th1aIll be working from the standard set of sample data here...16:57
th1aSo I go to section00016:57
th1aStare blankly at my overly long list of actions ;-)16:57
th1aFind the "book resources" link in the main part of the page.16:58
th1aAdding a resource seems to work more or less correctly.16:58
th1aDoesn't tell me that there is a conflict.16:59
th1aIt seems like there would be a conflict if I'm retroactively adding this resource for the whole term.17:00
ignasthis can be implemented, though it will slow things down17:00
ignasat the moment conflicts between timetables and normal calendars are not being calculated17:00
th1aWell, I think it is necessary.17:01
th1aTo keep you from double booking your classrooms.17:01
th1aAlso, when I look at my calendar, the resources don't show up on the calendar event.17:02
ignasi am afraid that double booking might appear as a 100 days long list of conflickting events17:02
th1aignas:  Yes.17:02
th1aPerhaps this could be condensed.17:03
th1a"Conflict with section002 - 110 times"17:03
ignasresoving conflicts among sections separately from conflicts with normal events ?17:03
th1aFor regular events we pretty much just warn you that there is a conflict, right?17:05
th1aDo we provide a link to the other event?17:06
ignasat the moment - conflicts between timetable events and normal events are not being handled17:07
ignasfor conflicts between normal events we are providing links to the conflicting events17:08
th1aYes, I see that.17:09
th1aSo if you conflict with a timetable event, you can't edit the instances of the event,17:10
th1abut you want a link to the section resources.17:10
th1aIdeally, only if you have permission to change the section resources.17:10
th1aOtherwise, just a warning.17:11
th1aBut that's a separate fix, really.17:11
ignasnot a small one i am afraid17:11
th1aDon't worry about that.17:11
th1aFor now.17:11
th1aAlso, it is ok if the UI is somewhat unusable if you try to add a resource to a section that has already been booked dozens of times through the term.17:13
th1aThat's a use case that isn't really redeemable.17:13
th1aI'll write these up in an email tonight, btw.17:14
th1aSkipping down a bit...17:15
th1aOne thing I notice is that what we have as "user visible changes" and what I expect to see as a user are entirely different :-(17:16
th1aFor example, I make a timetable with two homerooms, and the obvious thing I'm looking for is two homerooms designated when I view the timetable.17:16
th1aWhich I don't get.17:16
th1aI only see one when I view the timetable.17:17
th1aAnd indeed, this isn't specifically listed in the contract.17:17
th1aBut is obviously a bug.17:17
ignasit is a bug17:17
ignaswill fixit asap17:18
th1aI deleted an empty timetable and that seemed to work.17:19
th1aI mean, unused timetable.17:19
th1aWhat should I expect if I delete the default timetable?17:19
ignastry it17:19
ignasit asks for confirmation17:19
th1aYes, and then are all my sections un-timetabled then?17:19
ignasif you decide to really delete the scema17:20
algathe real use case is erroneous, unused schemas17:21
th1aignas:  Did you write your handy guide to not creating timezone bugs?17:21
th1aOK.  Thanks.17:23
ignasthough at the moment, you can't really be 100% sure that everything is ok ...17:23
th1aIn the last seven minutes, let's look at the control panel.17:23
th1aOK, so I see two sets of "Unresolved unexplained absences."17:25
th1aI'm not sure why they are two separate sets.17:25
ignastwo sets ?17:25
th1aHow are they different.17:25
ignaswhich view is it ?17:25
ignasthe "Attendance Panel"17:26
th1aThat's what I meant.17:26
th1aHm... maybe we should continue this discussion just with POV tomorrow after I send an email tonight.17:27
ignasthe design is a bit different from the one i initialy thought about, as it occured to me that - most of the time manager will have 1 student to deal with17:27
ignasnot 10 students17:27
th1aOr perhaps we can just do it by email.17:27
th1aCan we set a time for tomorrow?17:28
th1aWhich may or may not be necessary?17:28
ignasi think so17:29
ignasalga, mgedmin ?17:29
algasuits me fine17:30
* mgedmin has a lecture from 16:00 to 20:00 EEST17:30
mgedminalthough I can probably participate from the uni17:30
mgedminyes I can17:30
mgedmin1330 works for me17:30
th1aOK.  Cool.17:31
th1aSee you then.17:31
th1aThanks everyone!17:31
* th1a bangs the virtual gavel.17:31
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th1avidasp:  I'm looking up codes.17:31
vidaspth1a: ok17:31
faassenthanks th1a17:32
th1aI have a printout of the PowerSchool attendance guide that's about 2cm thick.17:32
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th1aWe can make a dictionary of code:description, right?17:34
th1aTry these:17:34
th1aP : Parent Excused17:34
th1aS : School Excused17:34
th1aI : In School Suspension17:35
th1aO : Out of School Suspension17:35
th1aX : Truant17:35
th1aV : Vacation17:35
th1aF : Field Trip17:35
th1aB : Late Bus17:35
vidaspthats all?17:36
th1aThat's still a fairly arbitrary list of examples.17:36
vidaspso, I'll put it in17:37
th1aSo the database has to be updated when these codes are changed?17:37
th1aWith an evolution script?17:37
ignasth1a, no, these are just codes that you start out with17:37
ignasand not, apparently vidas made it that way that no evolution  script is nescessary17:38
th1aRight.  Where would one change them?17:38
vidasp(unless you have checkout which is less that 2 hours old :)17:38
th1aOK.  Good.17:38
th1aI was worried for a second.17:38
th1aOK.  I have to go meet someone coming down from Harvard for a chat.17:39
th1aSome eLearning person...17:39
th1aI'll send a longer review tonight and ttyl.17:39
vidaspsite preferences17:41
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povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5940:18:09
povbot/svn/commits: Fixed timetable schema view.18:09
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5941:18:09
povbot/svn/commits: Extra newline.18:09
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povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5942:18:40
povbot/svn/commits: Made sparkline show only schooldays with section meetings.18:40
povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5943:18:43
povbot/svn/commits: New default attendance status codes.18:43
povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5944:18:46
povbot/svn/commits: Updated sparkline legend.18:46
povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5945:18:46
povbot/svn/commits: Whitespace.18:46
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5946:18:48
povbot/svn/commits: Evolution script for attendance record cache.18:48
povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5947:18:48
povbot/svn/commits: Show attendance link on section event (viewlet) only to the authorised persons with schooltool.viewAttendance permission on section.18:48
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pcarduneth1a: ayt?  Is that article you were writing a few days ago about CanDo on the web?22:56
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dwelshpaul, let me try that again.23:10
dwelshcalling you back.23:10
th1apcardune:  That was just something I'm going to send to eSchool News to try to get them to write an article.23:16
pcarduneoh ok23:18
th1apcardune:  Do you want to take a look at it?23:18
th1apcardune:  Sent to yr gmail.23:20
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