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| ignas | th1a, ping | 13:25 |
|---|---|---|
| srichter | ignas: this is definitely too early for him :-) | 13:30 |
| ignas | i know, but he will see i was looking for him :) | 13:31 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5877: | 13:47 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed the ftests broken after my yesterday's timetable changes. | 13:47 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5878: | 14:37 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Make the timetables created by sample data use the app default timezone. So, before creating sample data, set the timezone if you want timetables be in anything other than UTC. | 14:37 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5879: | 15:11 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Refactored data structures to accomodate more than one homeroom period per day. | 15:11 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5880: | 15:32 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fix other unit tests. | 15:32 |
| jinty | th1a_linux: When you're ready, we can try again with s3... | 15:38 |
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| th1a | ignas: What's up? | 17:08 |
| th1a | jinty: I guess I probably have to make a new account. | 17:09 |
| ignas | th1a, at the moment homeroom periods double as normal periods, thus the same period can be History and homeroom at the same time | 17:10 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:10 |
| th1a | It needs to be that way. | 17:10 |
| ignas | that makes thinking about homeroom attendance a bit difficult for me | 17:11 |
| th1a | I have learned the proper term for this. | 17:11 |
| th1a | "Period of record." | 17:11 |
| ignas | as we have 1 form for tracking attendance for a section | 17:11 |
| ignas | and homeroom attendance records are different from section attendance records | 17:12 |
| ignas | thus if you are late to your History/Homeroom period, you can't like go to the school administrator because he's not the one tracking attendance for that period | 17:12 |
| ignas | or is he ... | 17:12 |
| ignas | should I disable "make Tardy" button in the "Realtime attendance form" for history class when it doubles as a homeroom period | 17:14 |
| th1a | Hm... | 17:14 |
| ignas | untill School Administrator marks the student as tardy to a Homeroom period | 17:14 |
| ignas | in some kind of an attendance dashboard | 17:15 |
| th1a | OK. A couple things. | 17:15 |
| th1a | These details will definitely vary from school to school. | 17:19 |
| th1a | I don't think at this point you should worry about disabling the "Make tardy" button. | 17:20 |
| th1a | It seems like a hassle we shouldn't undertake unless we discover it is necessary. | 17:21 |
| ignas | so at the moment i should modify the "tardy_time" of the Period of Record automatically | 17:22 |
| ignas | ? | 17:22 |
| th1a | If the teacher does a "Make tardy?" I'm not sure what you mean by automatically. | 17:23 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5881: | 17:33 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Add multiple homeroom period support to the restive interface. | 17:33 |
| ignas | th1a, the usecase: | 17:33 |
| ignas | Student A misses History/Homeroom | 17:33 |
| ignas | Student A comes to Art a bit late | 17:33 |
| ignas | according to info i have - Art teacher can't mark the student Tardy, as the student must first go and check in for the Homeroom period he missed | 17:34 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:34 |
| th1a | I would say that is necessary. | 17:35 |
| ignas | who can mark him as Tardy for the Homeroom period ? History Teacher ? | 17:35 |
| ignas | School Admin | 17:35 |
| ignas | or both ? | 17:35 |
| th1a | Tardy DURING the homeroom period? | 17:36 |
| ignas | now - there are two tardy times - one when you are tardy for Homeroom period as in "15:00-16:00" and tardy for Homeroom period as in "15:00 - Next Homeroom Period" | 17:37 |
| ignas | :/ | 17:37 |
| ignas | the second one is "Period of record." ? | 17:37 |
| ignas | or the first one? | 17:37 |
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| th1a | I'm sorry, I'm not following you. | 17:38 |
| th1a | One thing that perhaps I didn't make clear is that if you have two periods of records, conceptually the day is split into to .5 days for attendance purposes. | 17:39 |
| ignas | yes i know | 17:39 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:39 |
| ignas | now back to the usecase: | 17:40 |
| ignas | what do you call the "Period of Record"? | 17:40 |
| th1a | That's the same as "homeroom." | 17:40 |
| th1a | Just a bit more precise. | 17:40 |
| th1a | Since "homeroom" is sometimes a regular class. | 17:41 |
| ignas | ok, now what whould we call the time from the begining of a HR period to the begining of the next HR period ? | 17:41 |
| ignas | A[HR] B C D[HR] E F (the first one spans periods A B C), the second one spans (D E F) | 17:42 |
| th1a | Colloquially, you've got a "day" or a "half-day." I don't know that there is a common term to describe either. | 17:44 |
| th1a | Trying to think of something... | 17:44 |
| ignas | well with our flexible HR support there might happend to be cases with 3 periods ... | 17:44 |
| ignas | A B[HR] C D E[HR] E F | 17:45 |
| ignas | A, B+C+D, E+F | 17:45 |
| th1a | Oh, right. | 17:45 |
| ignas | that's why i want a name for it | 17:45 |
| th1a | Attendance-span? | 17:45 |
| ignas | ok AS or Attendance-span | 17:46 |
| th1a | It shouldn't be easily confused with something else. | 17:46 |
| ignas | you see - there are 2 ways of being Tardy for yor Period of Record | 17:47 |
| ignas | one is - when you are late to the Period itself, not absent but late | 17:47 |
| ignas | and another - when you are absent in the PoR but Tardy to the Attendance Span | 17:47 |
| th1a | OK. Right. | 17:48 |
| ignas | i was planning on marking 2 distinct Attendance Records for every PoR - "Section attendance Record" and "Homeroom attendance Record" | 17:48 |
| th1a | The first I think it is ok to allow it to be switched to tardy by the teacher in the period of record. | 17:48 |
| ignas | oh | 17:49 |
| ignas | i see | 17:49 |
| ignas | but if you are not a teacher of the "Period of Record" you can't do that | 17:49 |
| th1a | In the second it generally would be handled by a clerk or administrator. | 17:50 |
| ignas | I'll try hacking something with permissions to make that possible | 17:50 |
| ignas | as there is no such thing as a view for "Attendance spans", it will have to fit into the Attendance Dashboard | 17:50 |
| ignas | now - should Attendance Spans be visible in student attendance calendars ? | 17:51 |
| ignas | when we had Day Attendance - we could do it with allday events | 17:51 |
| ignas | but now ? | 17:51 |
| th1a | Ah. | 17:51 |
| th1a | Realistically, if I'm looking at a student's calendar who was absent in the afternoon, I'm not sure that a 3 hour event showing that is preferable to an "all day" event that notes it. | 17:53 |
| th1a | I don't think there is a practical advantage to the timed event, and I think it would look worse. | 17:53 |
| ignas | but 3 Allday events are not that good either ... | 17:53 |
| th1a | Oh, I see. | 17:54 |
| ignas | and they will not capture the time when the student came to school | 17:54 |
| ignas | though - Section attendance records will | 17:54 |
| th1a | Well, I guess timed events then, but I don't have a strong opinion about it. | 17:55 |
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| ignas | should i display both - Homeroom Events AND Section Events or do it in a *smart* way so they would not cross | 18:01 |
| th1a | I would not duplicate the events for homeroom/AS and section events. | 18:02 |
| ignas | like 08-15:17 Attendnace Span (Tardy) , 15:17-15:40 History (Tardy), 15:50-17:10 Art | 18:02 |
| ignas | or 08-15:17 Attendnace Span, 08:00-09:00 Maths, 09:10-10:20 YadaTada ... | 18:03 |
| th1a | I think the first. | 18:04 |
| ignas | You mean if there is no Section meeting going on Period of Record - i should only have HomeroomAttendanceRecord? | 18:05 |
| ignas | that's for "I would not duplicate the events for homeroom/AS and section events." | 18:05 |
| th1a | Also, we'll have to have some kind of title associated with attendance spans, which realistically is either a "day" or "half-day." In the use case you mentioned with three spans, the time before the first period of record is simply not a span. | 18:06 |
| ignas | th1a, i see | 18:06 |
| th1a | ignas: At this point, I'm just thinking that people don't want to look at a bunch of obviously redundant data. | 18:07 |
| th1a | So if you're absent and there is a big single event for the span, I don't also need the period events. | 18:07 |
| ignas | th1a, i see | 18:08 |
| th1a | Or perhaps we should only have period events and just skip the day/span events in the calendar. | 18:08 |
| th1a | That might be simplest. | 18:08 |
| ignas | yes | 18:08 |
| th1a | Actually, that should be sufficient, now that I think about it. | 18:08 |
| th1a | Just do that. | 18:08 |
| th1a | It is actually more informative anyhow. | 18:09 |
| ignas | the only data you lose is - the span between checking in at the office and checking in in your class | 18:09 |
| th1a | It reminds you of specifically what you missed. | 18:09 |
| th1a | Lose in the calendar view or lose entirely? | 18:09 |
| ignas | calendar view | 18:09 |
| ignas | events are there | 18:10 |
| ignas | records i mean | 18:10 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:11 |
| th1a | That's fine. | 18:11 |
| jinty | th1a: yes please! | 18:12 |
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| th1a | jinty: OK. I went ahead and set up a new acct and updated the info in /root/doc | 18:40 |
| jinty | th1a: cool, could you also make two buckets for me? one for testing and one for the real thing? | 18:40 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:41 |
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| th1a | I'm feeling a bit puzzled about the buckets (it seems like I can add objects to other people's buckets...) but I created schooltool-www and schooltool-test. | 18:55 |
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| th1a | Give it a try, jinty. | 18:56 |
| jinty | and you can read/delete from other people's buckets? | 18:56 |
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| * jinty tries to remember the syntax | 18:56 | |
| th1a | Well, I created a "jon" bucket, which should already exist because Jon Udell uses it in an example. | 18:57 |
| th1a | But it seems empty and I can add objects to it. | 18:58 |
| th1a | So something is wacky. | 18:58 |
| th1a | I think I have the prefixes turned off. | 18:58 |
| th1a | Try opening the jon bucket. | 18:59 |
| jinty | is there a web interface somewhere? | 19:00 |
| th1a | Well, the objects are viewable through the web, if you make them public. | 19:01 |
| th1a | I'm doing something wrong, because when I open the jon bucket in the new session, it is empty again. | 19:01 |
| jinty | yau are using it through python? | 19:04 |
| * jinty curses a buggy bitbucket module | 19:06 | |
| th1a | I am using bitbucket. | 19:08 |
| th1a | That's the most likely source of weirdness. | 19:08 |
| th1a | jinty: Do you see a bit in the schooltool-test bucket? | 19:09 |
| jinty | not yet, I'm still trying to make bitbucket a bit more sane without a config file... | 19:10 |
| th1a | jinty: Of course, I just got my new access keys for my original account two minutes ago. | 19:11 |
| jinty | ;) | 19:12 |
| jinty | er, obviously these things were not designed to fit in url's the secret key has a / inside... | 19:14 |
| th1a | Well, if you put your secret key in a URL, it isn't very secret, is it. | 19:15 |
| th1a | You might as well post it into a logged IRC chat. | 19:15 |
| * jinty checks if the bread he has in the oven is cooked | 19:15 | |
| jinty | it's quite standard practice to put passwords in database urls | 19:19 |
| jinty | just have a look at zope.app.rdb | 19:20 |
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| jinty | strange, I seem to be able to put stuff in the test bucket, but it doesn't stay there | 19:27 |
| th1a | Right. | 19:32 |
| th1a | Using bitbucket? | 19:32 |
| th1a | I assume you don't see my test bit in there? | 19:32 |
| th1a | Your script managed to put things in the first time we tried this. | 19:33 |
| jinty | maybe I was just imagining that | 19:36 |
| th1a | No, I saw the bits myself. | 19:38 |
| jinty | when I run it it appears to succeed... but I don't know how to debug | 19:41 |
| th1a | Which bucket? | 19:41 |
| jinty | schooltool-test | 19:42 |
| th1a | use 'fetch_all_keys()' instead of keys() | 19:44 |
| jinty | aah | 19:44 |
| th1a | I think keys() caches too agressively. | 19:44 |
| th1a | ANd doesn't handle errors well. | 19:44 |
| jinty | sorry, gotta go now, | 19:46 |
| jinty | I give it a try tonight | 19:46 |
| jinty | latr | 19:46 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5882: | 20:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Removed a comment that was no longer correct. | 20:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5883: | 20:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: When cloning a timetable, copy the timezone too. | 20:44 |
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| ignas | th1a, are you still there ? | 21:16 |
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| th1a | ignas: I'm here. | 21:49 |
| ignas | th1a, what to do with students that have no timetable event at the time of homeroom period ? | 21:50 |
| ignas | as we don't really have a homeroom view of any kind ... | 21:50 |
| ignas | and Realtime attendance form is for Section timetable events | 21:50 |
| th1a | What are the options? | 21:51 |
| ignas | assume that schools will ceate a HomeRoom Section | 21:51 |
| ignas | for students that have no lessons and asign a Teacher to record attendance | 21:51 |
| ignas | or push everything into the dashboard | 21:52 |
| ignas | creating N unresolved events where N is the amount of students without a lesson at that moment | 21:52 |
| th1a | I think I don't understand the original question. | 21:52 |
| ignas | At the moment - HomeRoom doubles as History/Art/Whatever | 21:53 |
| ignas | so some teacher is actualy Recording presence/absence of students in his section and Homeroom period at the same time | 21:53 |
| th1a | Yes. | 21:54 |
| ignas | but who is recording their presence if there is only a "HomeRoom" period as there is no such section Homeroom | 21:54 |
| th1a | Oh, I see. | 21:55 |
| ignas | We have like History (John) Art (Steve) Homeroom(???) | 21:55 |
| th1a | In this case there is a course "homeroom." | 21:55 |
| th1a | It has regular sections. | 21:55 |
| th1a | Instuctors, pupils, etc. | 21:56 |
| ignas | i see | 21:56 |
| ignas | it's own SectionAttendance Records even i assume | 21:56 |
| th1a | Yes, although they would be fairly meaningless. | 21:56 |
| ignas | true | 21:57 |
| th1a | But essentially, a homeroom is regular section of a regular course. | 21:58 |
| ignas | ok | 21:58 |
| ignas | that straightens things out | 21:58 |
| ignas | :) | 21:58 |
| th1a | In fact, it even makes sense for them to have assignments, etc., because it is pretty common to have to handle a lot of administrative paperwork in homeroom period, so it would make sense to use a gradebook to make sure everyone had turned in their medical forms or whatever. | 21:59 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5884: | 22:32 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Correct timetable display on the calendar grid, timezone-wise. | 22:32 |
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| pcardune | hi jelkner | 23:03 |
| pcardune | welsh is on his way | 23:04 |
| jelkner | cool | 23:04 |
| pcardune | he should be at his office in 5-10 minutes (he just called) | 23:04 |
| jelkner | my server wouldn't start | 23:04 |
| pcardune | but we can get started without him | 23:04 |
| pcardune | which server? | 23:04 |
| jelkner | yes, let's start with the server | 23:04 |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 23:06 | |
| jelkner | did you see the changes i made to the docs? | 23:08 |
| pcardune | nope, haven't looked yet | 23:08 |
| pcardune | i'll look now | 23:08 |
| jelkner | http://www.schooltool.org/products/cando/documentation/how-to/checking-out-from-the-cando-repository | 23:08 |
| jelkner | i added the dependencies | 23:08 |
| jelkner | File "/home/jelkner/cando/SchoolTool/src/cando/journal/browser/journal.py", line 10, in JournalContainerView | 23:09 |
| jelkner | index_title = _("Journals index") | 23:09 |
| jelkner | zope.configuration.xmlconfig.ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jelkner/cando/SchoolTool/schooltool-skel/etc/site.zcml", line 25.2-25.55 | 23:09 |
| jelkner | ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jelkner/cando/SchoolTool/schooltool-skel/etc/package-includes/journal-configure.zcml", line 1.0-1.35 | 23:09 |
| jelkner | ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jelkner/cando/SchoolTool/src/cando/journal/configure.zcml", line 30.2-30.32 | 23:09 |
| jelkner | ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jelkner/cando/SchoolTool/src/cando/journal/browser/configure.zcml", line 19.4-27.10 | 23:09 |
| jelkner | NameError: name '_' is not defined | 23:09 |
| jelkner | that's the bottom of the traceback i get when i try to start the server | 23:09 |
| pcardune | ah, i'll fix that | 23:09 |
| pcardune | seems to work | 23:11 |
| jelkner | ? | 23:11 |
| pcardune | woops... wrong window | 23:12 |
| pcardune | try running the server now | 23:14 |
| pcardune | jelkner: do you want welsh to conference you in (by phone?) | 23:15 |
| jelkner | yes | 23:15 |
| pcardune | which number do you want him to call | 23:15 |
| jelkner | 301-779-8142 | 23:16 |
| pcardune | jelkner: does it run? | 23:17 |
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| jelkner | hey robbie | 23:50 |
| rjelliso | Hi | 23:50 |
| jelkner | thanks for stopping in | 23:50 |
| jelkner | pcardune is still on the phone with dwelsh | 23:50 |
| jelkner | so they might not be ready for us | 23:50 |
| jelkner | what are you doing next tuesday? | 23:50 |
| rjelliso | Tuesday? Not sure... heading out of town for this weekend, not sure if I get back before tuesday or not though | 23:51 |
| jelkner | could you ask? | 23:51 |
| rjelliso | Sure. | 23:52 |
| jelkner | is anyone home who would know? | 23:52 |
| rjelliso | Not right now, I can find out later today though | 23:52 |
| jelkner | ok | 23:52 |
| jelkner | i don't know how long pcardune will be | 23:53 |
| jelkner | but i'm here waiting for him | 23:53 |
| jelkner | hold on | 23:54 |
| jelkner | i do know one thing we could take care of | 23:54 |
| rjelliso | hm? | 23:54 |
| jelkner | did you authenticate to the irc channel? | 23:55 |
| rjelliso | Not yet, I'll do it now. | 23:55 |
| rjelliso | Authenticated. | 23:56 |
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