IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2006-04-07

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ignasth1a, ping13:25
srichterignas: this is definitely too early for him :-)13:30
ignasi know, but he will see i was looking for him :)13:31
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povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5877:13:47
povbot/svn/commits: Fixed the ftests broken after my yesterday's timetable changes.13:47
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povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5878:14:37
povbot/svn/commits: Make the timetables created by sample data use the app default timezone.  So, before creating sample data, set the timezone if you want timetables be in anything other than UTC.14:37
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5879:15:11
povbot/svn/commits: Refactored data structures to accomodate more than one homeroom period per day.15:11
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povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5880:15:32
povbot/svn/commits: Fix other unit tests.15:32
jintyth1a_linux: When you're ready, we can try again with s3...15:38
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th1aignas:  What's up?17:08
th1ajinty:  I guess I probably have to make a new account.17:09
ignasth1a, at the moment homeroom periods double as normal periods, thus the same period can be History and homeroom at the same time17:10
th1aIt needs to be that way.17:10
ignasthat makes thinking about homeroom attendance a bit difficult for me17:11
th1aI have learned the proper term for this.17:11
th1a"Period of record."17:11
ignasas we have 1 form for tracking attendance for a section17:11
ignasand homeroom attendance records are different from section attendance records17:12
ignasthus if you are late to your History/Homeroom period, you can't like go to the school administrator because he's not the one tracking attendance for that period17:12
ignasor is he ...17:12
ignasshould I disable "make Tardy" button in the "Realtime attendance form" for history class when it doubles as a homeroom period17:14
ignasuntill School Administrator marks the student as tardy to a Homeroom period17:14
ignasin some kind of an attendance dashboard17:15
th1aOK. A couple things.17:15
th1aThese details will definitely vary from school to school.17:19
th1aI don't think at this point you should worry about disabling the "Make tardy" button.17:20
th1aIt seems like a hassle we shouldn't undertake unless we discover it is necessary.17:21
ignasso at the moment i should modify the "tardy_time" of the Period of Record automatically17:22
th1aIf the teacher does a "Make tardy?"  I'm not sure what you mean by automatically.17:23
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5881:17:33
povbot/svn/commits: Add multiple homeroom period support to the restive interface.17:33
ignasth1a, the usecase:17:33
ignasStudent A misses History/Homeroom17:33
ignasStudent A comes to Art a bit late17:33
ignasaccording to info i have - Art teacher can't mark the student Tardy, as the student must first go and check in for the Homeroom period he missed17:34
th1aI would say that is necessary.17:35
ignaswho can mark him as Tardy for the Homeroom period ? History Teacher ?17:35
ignasSchool Admin17:35
ignasor both ?17:35
th1aTardy DURING the homeroom period?17:36
ignasnow - there are two tardy times - one when you are tardy for Homeroom period as in "15:00-16:00" and tardy for Homeroom period as in "15:00 - Next Homeroom Period"17:37
ignasthe second one is "Period of record." ?17:37
ignasor the first one?17:37
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th1aI'm sorry, I'm not following you.17:38
th1aOne thing that perhaps I didn't make clear is that if you have two periods of records, conceptually the day is split into to .5 days for attendance purposes.17:39
ignasyes i know17:39
ignasnow back to the usecase:17:40
ignaswhat do you call the "Period of Record"?17:40
th1aThat's the same as "homeroom."17:40
th1aJust a bit more precise.17:40
th1aSince "homeroom" is sometimes a regular class.17:41
ignasok, now what whould we call the time from the begining of a HR period to the begining of the next HR period ?17:41
ignasA[HR] B C D[HR] E F (the first one spans periods A B C), the second one spans (D E F)17:42
th1aColloquially, you've got a "day" or a "half-day."  I don't know that there is a common term to describe either.17:44
th1aTrying to think of something...17:44
ignaswell with our flexible HR support there might happend to be cases with 3 periods ...17:44
ignasA B[HR] C D E[HR] E F17:45
ignasA, B+C+D, E+F17:45
th1aOh, right.17:45
ignasthat's why i want a name for it17:45
ignasok AS or Attendance-span17:46
th1aIt shouldn't be easily confused with something else.17:46
ignasyou see - there are 2 ways of being Tardy for yor Period of Record17:47
ignasone is - when you are late to the Period itself, not absent but late17:47
ignasand another - when you are absent in the PoR but Tardy to the Attendance Span17:47
th1aOK.  Right.17:48
ignasi was planning on marking 2 distinct Attendance Records for every PoR - "Section attendance Record" and  "Homeroom attendance Record"17:48
th1aThe first I think it is ok to allow it to be switched to tardy by the teacher in the period of record.17:48
ignasi see17:49
ignasbut if you are not a teacher of the "Period of Record" you can't do that17:49
th1aIn the second it generally would be handled by a clerk or administrator.17:50
ignasI'll try hacking something with permissions to make that possible17:50
ignasas there is no such thing as a view for "Attendance spans", it will have to fit into the Attendance Dashboard17:50
ignasnow - should Attendance Spans be visible in student attendance calendars ?17:51
ignaswhen we had Day Attendance - we could do it with allday events17:51
ignasbut now ?17:51
th1aRealistically, if I'm looking at a student's calendar who was absent in the afternoon, I'm not sure that a 3 hour event showing that is preferable to an "all day" event that notes it.17:53
th1aI don't think there is a practical advantage to the timed event, and I think it would look worse.17:53
ignasbut 3 Allday events are not that good either ...17:53
th1aOh, I see.17:54
ignasand they will not capture the time when the student came to school17:54
ignasthough - Section attendance records will17:54
th1aWell, I guess timed events then, but I don't have a strong opinion about it.17:55
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ignasshould i display both - Homeroom Events AND Section Events or do it in a *smart* way so they would not cross18:01
th1aI would not duplicate the events for homeroom/AS and section events.18:02
ignaslike 08-15:17 Attendnace Span (Tardy) , 15:17-15:40 History (Tardy), 15:50-17:10 Art18:02
ignasor 08-15:17 Attendnace Span, 08:00-09:00 Maths, 09:10-10:20 YadaTada ...18:03
th1aI think the first.18:04
ignasYou mean if there is no Section meeting going on Period of Record - i should only have HomeroomAttendanceRecord?18:05
ignasthat's for "I would not duplicate the events for homeroom/AS and section events."18:05
th1aAlso, we'll have to have some kind of title associated with attendance spans, which realistically is either a "day" or "half-day."  In the use case you mentioned with three spans, the time before the first period of record is simply not a span.18:06
ignasth1a, i see18:06
th1aignas:  At this point, I'm just thinking that people don't want to look at a bunch of obviously redundant data.18:07
th1aSo if you're absent and there is a big single event for the span, I don't also need the period events.18:07
ignasth1a, i see18:08
th1aOr perhaps we should only have period events and just skip the day/span events in the calendar.18:08
th1aThat might be simplest.18:08
th1aActually, that should be sufficient, now that I think about it.18:08
th1aJust do that.18:08
th1aIt is actually more informative anyhow.18:09
ignasthe only data you lose is - the span between checking in at the office and checking in in your class18:09
th1aIt reminds you of specifically what you missed.18:09
th1aLose in the calendar view or lose entirely?18:09
ignascalendar view18:09
ignasevents are there18:10
ignasrecords i mean18:10
th1aThat's fine.18:11
jintyth1a: yes please!18:12
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th1ajinty:  OK.  I went ahead and set up a new acct and updated the info in /root/doc18:40
jintyth1a: cool, could you also make two buckets for me? one for testing and one for the real thing?18:40
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th1aI'm feeling a bit puzzled about the buckets (it seems like I can add objects to other people's buckets...) but I created schooltool-www and schooltool-test.18:55
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th1aGive it a try, jinty.18:56
jintyand you can read/delete from other people's buckets?18:56
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* jinty tries to remember the syntax18:56
th1aWell, I created a "jon" bucket, which should already exist because Jon Udell uses it in an example.18:57
th1aBut it seems empty and I can add objects to it.18:58
th1aSo something is wacky.18:58
th1aI think I have the prefixes turned off.18:58
th1aTry opening the jon bucket.18:59
jintyis there a web interface somewhere?19:00
th1aWell, the objects are viewable through the web, if you make them public.19:01
th1aI'm doing something wrong, because when I open the jon bucket in the new session, it is empty again.19:01
jintyyau are using it through python?19:04
* jinty curses a buggy bitbucket module19:06
th1aI am using bitbucket.19:08
th1aThat's the most likely source of weirdness.19:08
th1ajinty:  Do you see a bit in the schooltool-test bucket?19:09
jintynot yet, I'm still trying to make bitbucket a bit more sane without a config file...19:10
th1ajinty:  Of course, I just got my new access keys for my original account two minutes ago.19:11
jintyer, obviously these things were not designed to fit in url's the secret key has a / inside...19:14
th1aWell, if you put your secret key in a URL, it isn't very secret, is it.19:15
th1aYou might as well post it into a logged IRC chat.19:15
* jinty checks if the bread he has in the oven is cooked19:15
jintyit's quite standard practice to put passwords in database urls19:19
jintyjust have a look at
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jintystrange, I seem to be able to put stuff in the test bucket, but it doesn't stay there19:27
th1aUsing bitbucket?19:32
th1aI assume you don't see my test bit in there?19:32
th1aYour script managed to put things in the first time we tried this.19:33
jintymaybe I was just imagining that19:36
th1aNo, I saw the bits myself.19:38
jintywhen I run it it appears to succeed... but I don't know how to debug19:41
th1aWhich bucket?19:41
th1ause 'fetch_all_keys()' instead of keys()19:44
th1aI think keys() caches too agressively.19:44
th1aANd doesn't handle errors well.19:44
jintysorry, gotta go now,19:46
jintyI give it a try tonight19:46
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povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5882:20:42
povbot/svn/commits: Removed a comment that was no longer correct.20:42
povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5883:20:44
povbot/svn/commits: When cloning a timetable, copy the timezone too.20:44
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ignasth1a, are you still there ?21:16
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th1aignas:  I'm here.21:49
ignasth1a, what to do with students that have no timetable event at the time of homeroom period ?21:50
ignasas we don't really have a homeroom view of any kind ...21:50
ignasand Realtime attendance form is for Section timetable events21:50
th1aWhat are the options?21:51
ignasassume that schools will ceate a HomeRoom Section21:51
ignasfor students that have no lessons and asign a Teacher to record attendance21:51
ignasor push everything into the dashboard21:52
ignascreating N unresolved events where N is the amount of students without a lesson at that moment21:52
th1aI think I don't understand the original question.21:52
ignasAt the moment - HomeRoom doubles as History/Art/Whatever21:53
ignasso some teacher is actualy Recording presence/absence of students in his section and Homeroom period at the same time21:53
ignasbut who is recording their presence if there is only a "HomeRoom" period as there is  no such section Homeroom21:54
th1aOh, I see.21:55
ignasWe have like History (John) Art (Steve) Homeroom(???)21:55
th1aIn this case there is a course "homeroom."21:55
th1aIt has regular sections.21:55
th1aInstuctors, pupils, etc.21:56
ignasi see21:56
ignasit's own SectionAttendance Records even i assume21:56
th1aYes, although they would be fairly meaningless.21:56
th1aBut essentially, a homeroom is regular section of a regular course.21:58
ignasthat straightens things out21:58
th1aIn fact, it even makes sense for them to have assignments, etc., because it is pretty common to have to handle a lot of administrative paperwork in homeroom period, so it would make sense to use a gradebook to make sure everyone had turned in their medical forms or whatever.21:59
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povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5884:22:32
povbot/svn/commits: Correct timetable display on the calendar grid, timezone-wise.22:32
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pcardunehi jelkner23:03
pcardunewelsh is on his way23:04
pcardunehe should be at his office in 5-10 minutes (he just called)23:04
jelknermy server wouldn't start23:04
pcardunebut we can get started without him23:04
pcardunewhich server?23:04
jelkneryes, let's start with the server23:04
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jelknerdid you see the changes i made to the docs?23:08
pcardunenope, haven't looked yet23:08
pcardunei'll look now23:08
jelkneri added the dependencies23:08
jelkner  File "/home/jelkner/cando/SchoolTool/src/cando/journal/browser/", line 10, in JournalContainerView23:09
jelkner    index_title = _("Journals index")23:09
jelknerzope.configuration.xmlconfig.ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jelkner/cando/SchoolTool/schooltool-skel/etc/site.zcml", line 25.2-25.5523:09
jelkner    ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jelkner/cando/SchoolTool/schooltool-skel/etc/package-includes/journal-configure.zcml", line 1.0-1.3523:09
jelkner    ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jelkner/cando/SchoolTool/src/cando/journal/configure.zcml", line 30.2-30.3223:09
jelkner    ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jelkner/cando/SchoolTool/src/cando/journal/browser/configure.zcml", line 19.4-27.1023:09
jelkner    NameError: name '_' is not defined23:09
jelknerthat's the bottom of the traceback i get when i try to start the server23:09
pcarduneah, i'll fix that23:09
pcarduneseems to work23:11
pcardunewoops... wrong window23:12
pcardunetry running the server now23:14
pcardunejelkner: do you want welsh to conference you in (by phone?)23:15
pcardunewhich number do you want him to call23:15
pcardunejelkner: does it run?23:17
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jelknerhey robbie23:50
jelknerthanks for stopping in23:50
jelknerpcardune is still on the phone with dwelsh23:50
jelknerso they might not be ready for us23:50
jelknerwhat are you doing next tuesday?23:50
rjellisoTuesday? Not sure... heading out of town for this weekend, not sure if I get back before tuesday or not though23:51
jelknercould you ask?23:51
jelkneris anyone home who would know?23:52
rjellisoNot right now, I can find out later today though23:52
jelkneri don't know how long pcardune will be23:53
jelknerbut i'm here waiting for him23:53
jelknerhold on23:54
jelkneri do know one thing we could take care of23:54
jelknerdid you authenticate to the irc channel?23:55
rjellisoNot yet, I'll do it now.23:55

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