IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2006-03-14

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pcarduneth1a: are there any plans on the table to remove some of the clutter in the UI?00:35
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th1aNot specific plans.01:02
th1aGeneral intentions.01:02
pcarduneok, its just that some of the schooltool actions menus are really long... which is a pain if you have a low res monitor01:03
th1aI'm open to specific suggestions.  We will be consolidating all the personal data screens into one.01:05
pcardunewell, a few possibilities for improvement would include:01:05
srichterth1a: how long will you be online?01:05
pcardunehaving the actions menu sort alphabetically01:05
th1aI'll be more or less online all evening.01:05
pcarduneputting the actions menu in the top bar (with bread crumbs and login) and make it a drop down list box01:06
srichterth1a: ok, I'll be back later01:06
th1apcardune:  We need to encourage people to just go ahead and make some of the obvious changes.01:06
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th1aNobody owns the UI at this point.01:07
pcarduneok, then I might make some of those changes01:07
th1aEven if you made some changes that people didn't like, it would get people thinking and doing things about it.01:07
pcarduneI just wanted to make sure that I wasn't stepping on anyones feet in the process01:07
th1aNo.  PLEASE go ahead.01:08
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srichterth1a: are you there?01:38
th1aYes, but I'll be going to make dinner in about 20 minutes.01:38
srichterok, we can talk after dinner01:39
srichterI was just wondering whether you had feedback from the files I sent you01:39
th1aI think we should probably talk on the phone about it.01:39
srichterok, wanna call me now?01:40
th1aHow about 8:00?01:40
srichterbut then I only have till 9:00 before 24 starts ;-)01:40
th1aThat's fine01:40
srichterNEWS: A new version of JaWE is out02:15
pcarduneis jawe that really cool javascript replacement?02:16
srichterno, it is an XPDL workflow editor02:18
srichterpcardune: btw, what is the state of CanDo these days?02:19
pcarduneslowly but surely02:19
pcardunewe have brought on another developer02:19
srichterwho is that?02:19
pcardunemitchel (you might see him on here are ffsnoopy)02:19
srichterah ok02:19
pcardunehe is a senior at yorktown high school02:20
srichteris he a HS student?02:20
pcarduneI have got him refactoring the Journal system from cando02:20
pcarduneI've been working on refactoring the rest of cando to work really smoothly with schooltool02:20
pcarduneactually, there is an instance running at
pcardunethere is nothing on it yet, but you can mess around if you want (normal username/password)02:21
srichterdid you just kill the server?02:24
pcarduneno... i'm trying to access it to.  let me try restarting it02:25
pcarduneit was working earlier today... i think it is just a *really* slow server02:27
srichterit started loading and then it died02:29
srichtercan you setup something on your local machine at the university?02:29
srichterI assume you have a public IP02:30
pcardunei don't actually02:30
srichteryou should get one :-)02:30
pcarduneI'm working in the library, and haven't actually gotten around to asking the network guys to give me one02:30
srichterdarn, I cannot get a decenet response from the server02:40
pcarduneit is going really slowly for me just being logged in over ssh02:41
srichterthe connection comes pretty quick, but the response is not coming in02:41
tiredbonesI don't even get the front page.02:42
srichterwhat is your load on the machine?02:42
srichtertype: uptime02:42
pcardune 17:43:17 up 12 days, 58 min,  1 user,  load average: 1.49, 2.24, 1.7302:43
srichterthis is pretty high02:44
srichterare you sure it is only running the HTTP server?02:44
pcarduneits a virtual machine somewhere02:44
pcardunei'm going to install it on another server that I know is working02:46
pcarduneoh yeah, this is working a lot better.  one machine hooked up to a t1 line that nobody is using, thank you arlington public schools02:48
srichterhe he02:49
pcarduneoh crap... PIL isn't installed on here, and i don't have the root password02:50
tiredbonessrichter, this Q. pertains to your book. You make a comment that will provide the first 12 unit test, what in the code determine the 12 unit test/02:50
srichterpcardune: crap02:50
srichtertiredbones: it will run container tests02:50
srichterit makes sure that the messageboard and messages are valid containers02:51
tiredbonesyes, but what determine the number of time it will run.02:52
srichterthe default container tests are simply 602:52
tiredbonesyea, something I finally inderstand, 6*2=1202:53
pcardunei built PIL from source locally02:55
srichterit is coming through02:55
srichterI like the quick bar02:57
pcardunei ripped off the devmode code :)02:58
srichterhe he :-)02:58
pcardunethe stuff in cando is all old03:01
pcarduneI just haven't removed the link yet03:02
srichterso you still have to port the Scoresystem things03:03
pcardunenot entirely03:04
pcardunethey never really used it when it was there03:04
pcardune(making custom score systems that is)03:04
* srichter is on the phone tom03:04
* srichter is on the phone with tom03:04
* pcardune is going home03:15
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newpershey... is anyone up by chance?07:20
th1aI am.07:21
newpersth1a: how do i get zope3 documentation... like i want more info on IContained and ILocation, but don't know where to look07:22
newpersif you have time07:22
th1aAre you running Zope 3 itself or SchooLTool?07:23
newperszope 307:23
th1aYou can use the introspector to get to the apidocs online.07:23
newperswhere's that?07:23
th1aFrom the ZMI view.07:23
newpersahh... cool07:23
th1aIf you poke around you should find it.07:24
newpersyeah, i can't figure out if IContained is deprecated or not07:24
newpersi read something from the mailing list a while back.. i guess i'll search the docs07:24
th1aAlso, there is a lot of documentation in the source in the form of doctests.07:24
th1aI don't think it is deprecated.07:24
th1aOK.  Back to the Sopranos...07:24
newpers:) thanks.  and sorry if i interrupted anything07:25
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povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5797:15:11
povbot`/svn/commits: Update the python version check in the tarball server startup script. Also add this check to the tarball testing script. Hmm, copy/paste code everywhere that needs to be changed every now and then. Not ideal.15:12
povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5798:15:19
povbot`/svn/commits: Also try to get test to use the same python version as the instance itself.15:19
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* mgedmin is here16:34
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faassenquiet here.16:46
mgedminyou noticed it too?16:51
tiredbonesok here we go, join in whenever you feel like it. if I had a ham-mer, I sing it in the mornning...16:55
tiredbonesI don'r hear you - I sing it in the evening all over this land.16:56
tiredbonesback to lurking16:57
* srichter reminds everyone that the meeting is cancelled today, since Tom is in transit16:58
faassenI should read more carefully then. :)16:59
mgedminah, I missed the announcement17:00
algaso did I17:00
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srichtermgedmin: do we have a relationship property that only handles a one to one mapping18:35
mgedminsrichter: no, all relationships are many-to-many18:35
mgedminyou can impose additional constraints by writing subscribers18:35
srichterbasically I have a double linked list and relationships seem suitable18:36
srichterok, that's a bit too much work18:36
mgedminit shouldn't be too hard to write a property for enforcing consistency18:36
srichterit will be easier in this case to write properties that do the linking and unlinking properly18:37
mgedminI don't know if it fits the "relationship" concept well18:37
srichterright, a property is not too hard18:37
* mgedmin noticed
srichterI think that it should be easy to model all three cases with relationships: 1-1, 1-many, many-many18:37
mgedminI always thought we might need to extend our many-many relationships to 1-many and 1-118:39
srichtermgedmin: yep, cool18:39
mgedminbut at that stage I was deeply believing the "Do The Simplest Thing Now" aka YAGNI principle18:39
srichterthe summary is nice18:39
mgedminso I thought "if we ever need it, we can add it then"18:39
srichteroh well :-)18:40
srichterthe trace2html is nice though18:40
srichter(and yes, I still owe you the trace analysis; probably has to wait till the Swiss sprint18:40
srichtermgedmin: btw, you should come :-)18:40
mgedminis that the one around EuroPython?18:44
srichterno, it's the one coming up before Easter18:44
srichterApril 7-1218:44
mgedminI wouldn't mind attending if somebody else paid travel & accomodation costs ;)18:45
mgedminhowever there are deadlines for at least two projects that I'm supposed to work on18:45
srichterI am looking into it :-)18:45
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povbot`/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5799:19:08
povbot`/svn/commits: Added pregenerated that contains timezone information that will be used when generating proper icalendar output.19:08
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jelknerpcardune: hi paul!19:15
pcardunehi jelkner19:15
jelknerwoo is not here yet19:15
jelknerstill 5th period19:15
pcarduneoh, ok19:16
jelknerhe'll be here at 12:4019:16
pcarduneour server is working horribly19:16
jelknerquestion: does schooltool currently have a "trouble ticket" service?19:17
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jelkneri mean abt the server19:17
pcardunejelkner: it seems to keep freezing up19:17
jelkneri would need to report that to them19:17
pcarduneI tried to show stephan some of the new stuff, and it just wouldn't go.  You could establish a connection, but then nothing.19:18
jelkneri'm on the system now19:19
jelkneri don't notice any problems19:19
jelkneryou are on the system too19:20
pcarduneyes, i just got on19:20
jelkneri'm running dist-upgrade as we type...19:20
jelknerseems to be working fine19:21
pcardunejelkner: well i'm trying to start up the schooltool server and it is taking a long time19:22
pcarduneok, it's up, after 73.5 second19:22
pcarduneon my comp it takes about 719:22
jelknerthat is because it is the cheap end of a virtual machine19:22
jelkneri don't get much clock19:22
jelknerthis may not be the best demo server to use19:22
pcardunewell, it seems to be working alright now19:22
jelknerlet's keep an eye on it19:23
jelknernow, about the trouble ticket19:23
pcardunewhat is a trouble ticket service?19:23
jelknertom crabtree is the itc at acc19:23
jelkneritc - instructional technology coordinator19:24
jelkneracc - arlington career center19:24
jelknerwhen something goes wrong with technology in the building19:24
jelknerhe is resonsible for fixing it19:24
jelknersomething, "my printer needs a new cartridge"19:25
jelknera "trouble ticket system" is a why to automate that process19:25
jelknerusers submit on-line trouble tickets when they have a problem19:25
jelknertom then has a nice way to track and orginize his work19:26
pcarduneno, schooltool doesn't have that at the moment19:26
jelknerwell then, we should add it19:26
tiredbonesjelkner, I assime they use Zope to develope the system.19:26
jelknertiredbones: what system?19:26
jelknerthe system that tom is using now is some php thing he found on the web19:27
jelkneri want to switch him (and everyone else, for that matter ;-) to schooltool eventually19:27
jelknerthe advantages of schooltool here could be great19:28
srichtera trouble ticket app is pretty straight forward19:28
jelknerwe already have resource objects19:28
srichter(if you do not use workflows, which you eventually do want)19:28
jelknerso imagine we have a printer that needs a cartridge19:28
jelknerthe printer could know what cartridge it needs19:29
jelkneranyway i keep thinking of things we could help add to schooltool during the new hampshire sprint19:29
jelknerbell just rang, woo will be here soon...19:31
pcarduneit will be a good sprint19:31
tiredbonesjelkner, is there a class today?19:31
jelkneronly sunday19:32
jelknerwhat is the command to change your nick?19:38
jelknerwoo is here19:38
jelknerso i wanted to change jelkner to woo19:38
jelknerpcardune: u still here?19:39
pcarduneyes, i'm here19:39
jelknerso, i guess u don't know19:39
pcarduneit is "/nick newname"19:39
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pcardunehi drwoo19:39
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* mgedmin wonders if this is some kind of a costume party19:40
dwooSo, what should I do to get started with timeclock?19:40
pcardunewell, you can start by reusing what we already have19:41
pcardunebecause that code is perfectly good19:41
dwooOk, where is what you already have?19:41
pcarduneits on my account on maddog19:42
pcarduneI will send you a tarball now19:42
pcarduneor, if you have an account on maddog, you can just copy the directory19:43
dwooSorry, I don't have an account on maddog.19:44
pcarduneok, i just sent it to your gmail account19:45
pcardunethen do whatever it takes to put it into some kind of revision control system (jelkner had something specific in mind i think)19:46
pcarduneare you on the zope class mailing list by any chance?19:47
pcarduneok, then I will forward you the homework I gave them for this week, that is the your first assignment as well19:49
pcarduneok, it's sent19:50
pcardunebasically it just says to come up with some interfaces for the the objects that will actually keep track of work times19:50
dwooIs that it?19:50
pcardunethat shouldn't take you to long19:50
pcarduneso once you've done that, just go ahead and implement those interfaces19:51
pcardunealthough i'd like you to send me what you come up with for the interfaces when you've done that19:51
pcarduneafter that, you can write browser views for the implementation, and finally after that, you can make a new skin for timeclock19:53
pcardunethat work should last you about a week19:53
pcarduneassuming you also have to learn some new things (like how to make skins)19:53
pcarduneor rather, how to make skins so that you don't get deprecation warnings (don't follow the zope books)19:54
dwooIs there any way to get gedit to work on maddog, or am I stuck with nano/vi?19:54
pcardunewell, you could just develope on your own machine and use whatever you want19:55
pcarduneunless jelkner is forcing you to use maddog, in which case you should talk to him about gedit19:55
pcardunedwoo: i'll be back in 5 minutes if you have more questions20:02
pcardunedwoo: i'm back20:07
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dwooNo questions, but I have to go now. See you later.20:24
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erchacheanoybody is here?21:14
pcardunei'm here21:15
pcardunehi erchache21:16
erchacheim looking for tom...but arent here21:20
erchachepcardune: tomorrow is TODO meeting no?21:20
pcardunei don't know, i'm not working for Tom21:21
erchachein this case tomorrow send him a mail21:24
erchachebye :-D21:24
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tiredbonessrichter, I built an instance, called bookinstance, under /usr/local/Zope-3.2/zope3. I then biult the directory tree for book. I cd up to the instance, bookinstance, and tried to run the test, thus. python bin/test -vpu --dir lib/python//bok/messageboard. It tells me that I'm getting an ImportErrors on I don;t need to set PYTHONPATH do I? If so, that doesn't work either.21:59
tiredbonesDo you have any ideas why it's not see the import path?22:01
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srichterth1a: yay, wireless at your hotel! :-)23:18
th1aIt works.23:19
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srichterth1a: now that you are here: What term templates would you want as the defaults?23:35
th1aOf several choices or one default?23:36
srichterseveral choices23:38
srichterI can implement as many or little as you want me to23:38
th1aDo semesters.23:38
th1aSemesters with two marking periods each.23:38
th1aTrimesters with two marking periods each.23:39
srichterok, note that I need entire sturctures23:39
th1aThat's four.23:39
srichterah ok,23:39
srichterAcademic year, with two semesters23:40
srichterAcademic year, with 3 trimesters23:40
th1aWe assume the academic year ;-)23:40
srichterAcademic year with 2 semesters, each two grading periods23:40
srichterAcademic year with 3 trimesters, each two grading periods23:40
srichterok, sounds good23:40
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srichterdo we have sensible names for those :-)23:41
srichteror call them DefaultTermTemplate1, ...23:41
srichteruntil now I usually tried sensible names like23:41
srichterSimpleUniversityrTermTemplate (semesters, no summers)23:42
srichteror something like that23:42
th1aDon't bring University into it.23:42
th1aHow about Semesters, Trimesters, SemestersTwoPeriods, TrimestersTwoPeriods.23:43
th1aSomething like that.23:43
srichterok, sounds good23:46

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