IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2006-02-16

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th1asrichter:  ayt?01:20
th1aI'm finding the lack of the equivalent of <div> in RML to be vexing.01:21
th1aFor doing tal:repeat loops.01:22
th1aThere isn't a meaningless structural tag like <div>01:22
th1aDo you know what I mean?01:24
srichteraehm, you can use:01:25
th1aI need to loop through each student, creating a report for each student within a single giant document.01:25
srichter<tal:block repeat="">01:25
srichter"block" is arbitrary01:26
srichtercould also be01:26
srichter<tal:loop repeat="">01:26
th1aHopefully this will get me over my fear of TAL.01:27
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th1asrichter:  ayt?03:55
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jelknerth1a: tom, are you here?21:21
jelkneranybody home?21:38
jelknerth1a: tom, i just cc'd you an email about NECC 2006.  it is time to start thinking about that.21:39
jelknerdo you have plans to go this year?21:39
jelknersrichter: stephan, are you here?21:40
jelknerquick question while i've got you:21:40
jelknerwhen would be good for you in july to do a cando/schooltool sprint down here?21:40
srichteranytime after June 30 is good for me (I am teaching May and June)21:41
jelknerit would definitely be july21:41
srichterI think Tom also wants to go to this NE teacher meeting around July 16-1921:41
srichterBut that's it21:41
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th1aI have returned.21:42
jelknerwe are trying to plan for july21:42
th1aWe've now produced the first SchoolTool created report cards.21:42
th1aThey're going out tonight.21:42
jelknerwhich is fast approaching21:42
srichterth1a: AWESOME!!!!21:42
srichterth1a: can you send me a sample?21:42
th1aUh... it is a 1300 page PDF.21:42
th1aNot very sexy either.  I had trouble doing much with RML my first time around.21:43
th1aI'll show you though.21:43
srichterif you could send me one page, it would be great21:44
jelknerth1a: is now a good time to ask you about july?21:44
srichterhow was your pdftemplate experience?21:44
th1aOne thing I learned is that for a report this big/complex, raw reportlab python is probably better.21:44
th1ajelkner:  Bear in mind that I'm bringing Albert from POV and probably someone from Infrae over four the sprint in NH.21:45
srichterthat's interesting, since people have told me the opposite21:45
jelknerare you going to NECC?21:45
th1aWell, I definitely don't know the ins and outs of what I can do with TAL.21:45
th1ajelkner:  Yes.21:45
th1aAnd I'll be there for a while before and/or after working with High Tech High.21:46
jelknerpcardune said he is going to the NE sprint as well21:46
th1ajelkner:  But you specifically want to do one in VA?21:46
jelknerwe will have about half a dozen students ready to participate21:47
th1aOK, so you can't bring all of them to NH.21:47
jelknerflying them all up north would be too expensive21:47
th1aI see.21:47
jelknermaybe you have  a point21:48
jelknerit might be more fun for them to go there21:48
th1aIt would be very cool.21:48
jelknerit depends what happens to dave and i next tuesday in richmond21:48
th1aUniversity campus.21:48
jelknerwhat are the dates for that?21:48
jelkneri'm still not sure we don't want to do both21:49
jelknera schooltool sprint up there21:49
srichterI think we want both21:49
jelknerand a cando sprint down here21:49
th1aEither way can work.
srichtermore events == more noise == more development == more goodness :-)21:49
jelknerwe are also working with devIS on this project21:49
jelkneri'm sure we could get a few of there developers to participate down here21:49
th1aRight.  That's why I figured you'd need to stay down there.21:49
jelknerbut that in no way precludes a smaller group from here attending NE as well21:50
jelknerin addition to pcardune21:50
th1aYes.  A few more people up there would be cool.21:51
th1aNELS is Matt Oquist & Dave Trask.21:51
th1aIf  you didn't know that.21:51
jelknerthey talked to me about it in montreal21:51
jelknermatt did21:51
jelknerand dave21:51
jelknerdo you have the url for that?21:52
jelknerno, that's not it21:53
th1aThat's the Moodle URL above.21:53
jelknergot it!21:54
jelknerJune 19 to 2121:54
th1aThere are two this year.21:55
th1aOur sprint is at the NH one.21:55
th1aJuly 16-19.21:55
jelknerthere it is21:57
jelknernecc is july 5-721:58
jelknerwhat are your plans for that?21:59
jelknerwould you be available to help steve with the free software center?21:59
th1aYes.  Definitely.21:59
jelkneri just sent him an email and cc'd you21:59
jelknerhe has begun to organize for that already21:59
th1aYes, I sent out a ping about it to the K12OSN list a couple weeks ago to make sure people hadn't forgotten about it.22:00
jelkneragain, a lot depends for me on what happens next tuesday22:00
jelknerif we get the state grant, i may be able to go representing cando22:01
jelknerotherwise i'll ask canonical again if they want an edubuntu person there22:01
th1aOh, so you wouldn't be going otherwise?22:01
jelkner(otherwise i can't go ;-(22:01
jelknerwell, i don't think i can afford to do all these things on my own dime22:02
jelknersome, yes22:02
jelknerbut not all22:02
jelknera trip to nh is much cheaper for me22:02
jelkneri can drive22:02
jelknerso that one i could do22:02
jelknerbut san diego is far22:02
th1aA long drive.22:03
th1aStill, cheap via SouthWest.22:03
th1aI should book my flight & get my hotel rooms.22:03
th1aI require multiple rooms.22:04
th1aOne for me and one for my ego.22:04
jelknermaybe i could room with your ego?22:04
th1aI'm afraid that was a joke.22:05
th1aHowever, sharing a room isn't out of t he question.22:05
jelknerthat would make things much more affordable22:05
jelknerwell, i need to run22:05
jelkneri'll be seeing welsh this afternoon22:05
th1asrichter:  I don't seem to have your phone number handy.22:06
jelknerhow does week of july 25 look for sprint down here?22:07
th1aI've only got NELS and NECC on my July calendar so far.22:08
jelknergood, so that week is open22:10
jelknerok, i'll talk to dave and get back to you22:10
jelknersrichter: does that work for you?22:11
* jelkner will have to get srichter's response later... he needs to go...22:11
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srichterowrks for me22:38
srichterth1a: 617-764-522422:40
th1asrichter:  Let me see if my sister is off the phone.22:41
srichterhe he22:41
th1aShe's getting ready to go visit her Chinese boyfriend.22:42
srichterah, where is that?22:42
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dwelshsrichter: stephan, are you here?23:26
th1adwelsh:  I just got off the phone with him.23:27
srichterdwelsh: yes23:27
dwelshthis is jeff down at the career center (impersonating dwelsh ;)23:27
dwelshdid you get to talk to jim fulton?23:27
dwelshwe have the big meeting in richmond next tuesday23:27
srichterno not yet; I'll promise I talk to him and Rob till tomorrow23:28
dwelshand our mission is to allay their fears about problems from zope corp23:28
dwelshanything you can do to help us would be *greatly* appreciated!23:28
th1aAllay whose fears?23:28
srichterwhat problems23:28
dwelshthe state contracts with zope corp23:28
th1aThat doesn't make any sense.23:29
srichterif you could send me some political and historical background, I would appreciate it23:29
dwelshthey don't understand the whole free software thing23:29
dwelshhey, this is really welsh with the background23:29
dwelshit was elkner before23:29
th1aThey think Zope Corp has a problem with SchoolTool?23:29
dwelshNo necessarily23:30
dwelshthe concern is that the State already is contracting with zope corp23:30
dwelshto put the state competencies online, plus some basic curriculum23:30
dwelshI'll bet zope corp has been working with the schools for three or more years23:31
dwelshthe overall concern is that we coordinate our efforts23:31
dwelshbecause the state may want to incorporate what we are doing into what they are doing23:31
dwelshbut a more concrete concern may be that someone somewhere may have had the idea23:32
dwelshthat zope corp should write a competency tracker for VA Schools23:32
srichteroh, if this is the concern, I'll better talk to Rob23:32
th1aI've spoken to Rob (Page) about SchoolTool, btw.23:33
dwelshI honestly don't know what zope corp and the state have talked about with regards to future work23:33
dwelshbut I do know that we have done some great work on this problem23:33
dwelshand at a minimum would hate to see the state start on the problem from scratch23:33
dwelshat a maximum, we want the state to put money towards our effort, as they planned to do23:33
dwelshand coordinate with zope corp so that we are helping each other and not duplicating efforts23:34
th1aRob expressed interest to me in licensing our calendaring code, but I don't think he followed up on it with Mark.23:34
dwelshI guess that would be the main concern... duplication of effort23:34
srichterI am calling rob now23:34
dwelshdon't make anyone mad, please23:34
dwelshwe're planning to go in to the Tuesday meeting showing our work23:35
th1adwelsh:  I don't think that it is out of the question that Zope Corp. would be interested in working from our codebase.23:35
dwelshand exploring how we can work with zope corp and the state to fully develop and deploy Cando23:35
* th1a wonders if Zope Corp's rates are lower than I imagine.23:36
dwelshElkner assures us they're not23:36
th1aI guess once you get to the state DOE level, you've got $$$ to blow.23:37
dwelshwe need money to invest wisely, on our end!!!!!23:37
srichterok, all is good23:38
srichterZope Corp has a public API that can be used to syndicate the data23:39
srichterall you need to do is get access via a password from the state23:39
th1aA public API they aren't telling anyone about?23:39
srichterwell, Rob will be more than happy to provide us with the docs23:39
th1aStates are doing such a shitty job with this kind of stuff.23:39
th1aYeah, it isn't Zope Corp's responsibility, really.23:40
srichterhe just does not have the authority over the actual data23:40
srichterthe state is paranoid, he said, about publishing standards on multiple sites23:41
srichterrob said he lectured the state on the fact that syndication is good as long as the state remains the main source23:41
th1aIf states would really take interoperability seriously we could make some actual progress.23:41
srichterso it is not a technical issue at all23:42
srichterits a political one23:42
srichterdwelsh: jeff, I think it would be good for you to suggest a three-party meeting; because it will be you and Zope Corp against the fear of the state23:42
srichterfrom what I know from Rob, they are not into competency tracking at all23:43
srichterstill there or am I talking to myself? :-)23:44
srichterdwelsh: did you get my private message with Rob's info?23:44
tiredbonesOn the sprint in NH can anyone pay thier dime and listen in on what is being said?23:45
srichtertiredbones: yeah, I think it is a pretty open conference23:46
tiredbonesWhat goes on at these sprints?23:46
th1atiredbones:  Absolutely.23:47
th1aWell, this will be the first SchoolTool sprint.23:47
tiredbonesDo you talk about the internals of the system?23:48
th1a(I've been waiting for NELS to get their new site to really publicize this, actually)23:48
th1atiredbones:  This will be a little unusual as a sprint.23:48
th1aThe first day we'll do a workshop with an audience of school sys admins & tech coordinators (mostly) walking them through setting up ST.23:49
dwelshwe're back and catching up on our reading:)23:49
tiredbonesth1a, Is this just to show the product?23:49
th1aWell, at NELS, what you do actually is bring one of your servers from school and set it up on site.23:49
th1aAnd when you do a workshop you actually install the software for real.23:50
th1aSo if you run into bizarre seg faults and failing tests,23:50
th1athere is someone who can look over your shoulder in real time ;-)23:50
th1aThat's the format of this conference.23:50
tiredbonesth1a, thanks alot for the last comment. he he23:50
th1aSo we'll do that and also basically a demo the first morning.23:51
th1aAnd then say, "ok, what are the show stoppers?"23:51
th1aWhat does this need to do to be used in your school?23:51
th1aAnd *ideally* a few of those things we'll be able to implement while we're there.23:52
tiredbonesth1a, Well if my calendar allows for me to attend, Ill be there.23:52
srichterdwelsh: do you have any questions?23:52
th1aOne of the main objectives is just to have a chance for our developers to talk to the people who will be using SchoolTool.23:53
srichterdwelsh: I think technically and Zope Corp.-CanDo political there are no problems23:53
srichterfrom what I heard Zope Corp. is on our side23:53
th1atiredbones: We aren't planning formal lessons on SchoolTool development, but I'd like to pair developers with people who are interested in learning for the second and third day.23:53
th1atiredbones:  Do you know Dave Trask?23:54
tiredbonesFrom reading the irc today, I would like to make sure of the liccense. Anyone can use Zope 3 and Schooltool.23:57
tiredbonesth1a, No I don't know Dave Trask.23:57
tiredbonesth1a, Who is he?23:57
srichterdwelsh: are you really back?23:58
th1aHe's tech coordinator in... hm... it is north of Farmington.23:58
th1aMy wife is from Farmington, btw.23:58
tiredbonesth1a, On this pairing up with a developer, can someone just lurk and list to what is being said?23:59

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