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| tiredbones | uses of the verb will | 00:46 |
|---|---|---|
| tiredbones | sorry about that. | 00:46 |
| th1a | IRC non-sequitur. | 00:46 |
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| pcardune | th1a: Are there any plans for improving the sample data generation? specifically to make it more customizable? not for extensions but for people who don't want there computer to croak trying to create an unnecessarily large amount of data | 02:39 |
| th1a | Well, it isn't high on the list of things to do. | 02:42 |
| pcardune | ok, just wondering | 02:42 |
| hlieberman | I have a question: Could the schooltool system be modified to work in a module system? | 02:43 |
| th1a | I mean, I'd rather make it more efficient than start cutting down the amount of data we generate. | 02:43 |
| th1a | We don't want to make a system that doesn't actually work under real loads. | 02:43 |
| th1a | Although generating sample data is a bit artificial. | 02:43 |
| th1a | hlieberman: What do you mean? | 02:43 |
| hlieberman | th1a, Well, best way to think of it is this: | 02:44 |
| hlieberman | Year is divided up into 7 pieces. | 02:44 |
| hlieberman | Four blocks per day. | 02:44 |
| hlieberman | Each class can span any which way on this grid, though most don't go very far. | 02:44 |
| th1a | How is this different than a more traditional schedule? | 02:45 |
| hlieberman | I guess not that... | 02:45 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5713: | 12:30 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Interleave day and section attendance records so that records falling on one date are grouped together. | 12:30 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5714: | 12:35 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Make sparklines symmetric. | 12:35 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5715: | 14:15 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added a function to determine the closest section meeting on a given day. Not used yet. | 14:15 |
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| shapr | hah | 15:01 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5716: | 15:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fix sparklines (do not scale images). Oops. Also add two hidden fields that will become useful soon. | 15:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5717: | 15:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Oops again. | 15:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5718: | 15:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Bookmarkable URL for "the nearest meeting of this section". | 15:45 |
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| * mgedmin wonders when th1a will wake up | 17:18 | |
| shapr | Sleeping Duty? | 17:19 |
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| erchache | th1a: hi | 18:57 |
| erchache | what happs with script to solve issue 461? | 18:57 |
| ignas | erchache, we wait for a bugfix release and then give it to you | 19:20 |
| erchache | ok... :-D | 19:20 |
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| th1a | ignas & erchache: Can we give erchache a patch? | 19:52 |
| ignas | th1a, hi | 19:52 |
| th1a | I just got back from taking Kitty to the veterinarian. | 19:53 |
| th1a | She wasn't very happy with the whole process. | 19:54 |
| erchache | hi | 19:54 |
| erchache | sorry im trying to install zope on my powerbook | 19:54 |
| th1a | erchache: I'll upload your slides later today. | 19:55 |
| ignas | http://source.schooltool.org/trac/changeset/5661?format=diff <- the patch | 19:55 |
| erchache | and what need to do with it?....decompress on subdir schooltool instance? | 19:56 |
| ignas | patch -p0 < the-patch-in-a-file | 19:56 |
| mgedmin | well, if you do not know what to do with it, it will probably not help | 19:57 |
| mgedmin | would it apply against the last release cleanly? | 19:57 |
| th1a | Hm... good question. | 19:57 |
| th1a | Well, it was a thought. | 19:58 |
| erchache | a second... | 19:58 |
| erchache | okay...im going to download it and apply patch...before make a backup of subdir instance | 20:00 |
| erchache | i need to save it into a file....and apply patch no? | 20:00 |
| erchache | argghh many files need to patch no? | 20:01 |
| th1a | Yes. Let us know if it works. | 20:01 |
| erchache | i need to patching all these files no? | 20:01 |
| erchache | ok... | 20:01 |
| th1a | Three. | 20:01 |
| erchache | ok ok.... | 20:02 |
| erchache | path isnt same...i need to find these files | 20:05 |
| erchache | its take time... | 20:06 |
| ignas | they were in schoolbell not schooltool back then :/ | 20:07 |
| ignas | th1a, now about the attendance data and the green lines | 20:13 |
| ignas | in sparklines | 20:13 |
| th1a | Ah, yes. | 20:13 |
| ignas | the lack of excused attendance records is because: only 50% of them got explanations (a setting that can get changed very easily) | 20:14 |
| ignas | and - day abscences are a lot more common | 20:14 |
| th1a | Make 80% explained. | 20:14 |
| ignas | and they are not marking associated section absences as excused | 20:14 |
| th1a | They should. | 20:15 |
| ignas | now as to the variables | 20:17 |
| ignas | maybe you could look into the sample data plugin directly | 20:17 |
| ignas | all the variables are documented there | 20:17 |
| ignas | so you could just tell me what values would be better suited to you | 20:17 |
| th1a | OK. | 20:17 |
| erchache | th1a: where i can paste a piece of code? i dont know if i patch good | 20:18 |
| erchache | schooltool.paste.com? | 20:18 |
| th1a | ? | 20:19 |
| th1a | So 90% of absences are converted to tardies? | 20:19 |
| erchache | def doctest_InfinitePastEventsBug(): | 20:19 |
| erchache | + """Regression test for http://issues.schooltool.org/issue461 | 20:19 |
| erchache | + | 20:19 |
| erchache | + >>> from schooltool.calendar.simple import SimpleCalendarEvent | 20:19 |
| erchache | + >>> from schooltool.calendar.recurrent import WeeklyRecurrenceRule | 20:19 |
| erchache | + >>> ev = SimpleCalendarEvent(datetime(2006, 1, 18, tzinfo=pytz.utc), | 20:19 |
| erchache | + ... timedelta(hours=1), 'Sample event', | 20:20 |
| erchache | + ... recurrence=WeeklyRecurrenceRule()) | 20:20 |
| erchache | + >>> for e in ev.expand(datetime(2006, 1, 1, tzinfo=pytz.utc), | 20:20 |
| erchache | + ... datetime(2006, 2, 1, tzinfo=pytz.utc)): | 20:20 |
| erchache | + ... print e.dtstart | 20:20 |
| erchache | + 2006-01-18 00:00:00+00:00 | 20:20 |
| erchache | + 2006-01-25 00:00:00+00:00 | 20:20 |
| erchache | + | 20:20 |
| erchache | + """ | 20:20 |
| erchache | + | 20:20 |
| erchache | + | 20:20 |
| erchache | def test_suite(): | 20:20 |
| erchache | suite = unittest.TestSuite() | 20:20 |
| ignas | th1a, yes | 20:20 |
| erchache | + suite.addTest(doctest.DocTestSuite()) | 20:20 |
| erchache | suite.addTest(unittest.makeSuite(TestDailyRecurrenceRule)) | 20:20 |
| erchache | suite.addTest(unittest.makeSuite(TestYearlyRecurrenceRule)) | 20:20 |
| erchache | ooops | 20:20 |
| erchache | sorry :-S | 20:20 |
| th1a | ignas: Does that count day tardies? | 20:20 |
| ignas | th1a, there are no day tardies | 20:20 |
| th1a | Right. | 20:21 |
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| th1a | Good. | 20:21 |
| th1a | :-) | 20:21 |
| erchache | well...i need to know how to modify a file.... | 20:21 |
| erchache | def doctest_InfinitePastEventsBug(): | 20:21 |
| erchache | """Regression test for http://issues.schooltool.org/issue461 | 20:21 |
| erchache | from schooltool.calendar.simple import SimpleCalendarEvent | 20:21 |
| erchache | from schooltool.calendar.recurrent import WeeklyRecurrenceRule | 20:21 |
| erchache | ev = SimpleCalendarEvent(datetime(2006, 1, 18, tzinfo=pytz.utc), | 20:21 |
| erchache | ... timedelta(hours=1), 'Sample event', | 20:21 |
| erchache | ... recurrence=WeeklyRecurrenceRule()) | 20:21 |
| erchache | for e in ev.expand(datetime(2006, 1, 1, tzinfo=pytz.utc), | 20:21 |
| erchache | ... datetime(2006, 2, 1, tzinfo=pytz.utc)): | 20:21 |
| erchache | ... print e.dtstart | 20:21 |
| erchache | this is ok? | 20:21 |
| erchache | need to quit ... | 20:22 |
| erchache | and put on same line? | 20:22 |
| erchache | th1a | 20:22 |
| ignas | i was thinking that you might want to play with attendance data that is generated so made percentages easy to change | 20:22 |
| erchache | ignas | 20:22 |
| th1a | ignsas: Basically, I'd just increase the explanation rate to 80% and the reject rate to 20%. | 20:22 |
| ignas | erchache, can't tell, try running tests | 20:22 |
| erchache | ok... | 20:23 |
| erchache | i finish to patch files | 20:23 |
| erchache | what need to do now, a remake? | 20:23 |
| erchache | th1a ignas | 20:23 |
| ignas | th1a, not really nescessary, as these are exclusive ... which means - 80% are accepted, 30% of *those that are not accepted* are rejected | 20:23 |
| erchache | make | 20:23 |
| ignas | erchache, make test ftest | 20:23 |
| erchache | python setup.py install | 20:23 |
| erchache | ok | 20:24 |
| erchache | two errors | 20:25 |
| erchache | ignas: 2 errors | 20:25 |
| erchache | :-S | 20:25 |
| ignas | http://schooltool.pastebin.com/ | 20:25 |
| ignas | please | 20:25 |
| erchache | a second | 20:26 |
| erchache | im making a test | 20:26 |
| * th1a imagines ignas cursing him for suggesting erchache patch his server. | 20:27 | |
| ignas | th1a, nah, it's erchaches problem not mine :D | 20:27 |
| ignas | th1a, and - i actually like my job ;) | 20:28 |
| th1a | ignas: Regardless, excused absences are downward pointing and green? | 20:28 |
| erchache | ignas: http://schooltool.pastebin.com/532471 | 20:28 |
| th1a | ignas: I like my job too, and I do like working with you. | 20:28 |
| mgedmin | th1a, did you read my mail? | 20:28 |
| mgedmin | excused absences are downward pointing and black | 20:29 |
| th1a | I keep getting distracted. | 20:29 |
| th1a | Oh, black. | 20:29 |
| th1a | Right. | 20:29 |
| th1a | That makes more sense. | 20:29 |
| erchache | ignas: what do you think fails? | 20:29 |
| ignas | erchache, LC_ALL=C make test ? | 20:30 |
| th1a | Sorry I was smoking crack about green lines. | 20:30 |
| erchache | ignas: need to put this in cmd? | 20:30 |
| mgedmin | green smoke? | 20:30 |
| erchache | ignas: running...... | 20:31 |
| th1a | So in the workflow, submitting an explanation and accepting/rejecting it are separate? | 20:31 |
| th1a | This makes sense... | 20:31 |
| mgedmin | you can do both in the form, if you want to | 20:32 |
| mgedmin | or you can do them as separate steps | 20:32 |
| erchache | ignas: http://schooltool.pastebin.com/532481 | 20:32 |
| mgedmin | interesting; LC_ALL=C failed to work | 20:33 |
| th1a | So yes, the form needs something to separate excuses which already have explanations but are pending. | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | erchache, or maybe you changed the language option in schooltool.conf.in directly? | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | anyway, those failures are harmless | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | th1a, I was thinking maybe little parchment icons or something | 20:34 |
| mgedmin | with maybe little green v marks or little red x marks | 20:34 |
| mgedmin | to show accepted/rejected explanations | 20:34 |
| erchache | what do i do now? :-S | 20:34 |
| ignas | run the schooltool | 20:34 |
| mgedmin | erchache, try running it and see if your error is gone | 20:35 |
| ignas | enjoy the bugfix | 20:35 |
| ignas | praise the developers | 20:35 |
| erchache | jejejeje | 20:35 |
| erchache | but dont i need to recompile it? | 20:35 |
| mgedmin | no | 20:35 |
| erchache | ok | 20:35 |
| erchache | trying to make a recursive event bigger than a month | 20:35 |
| th1a | mgedmin: You'd want to see what the explanation was if you were accepting or rejecting it. | 20:35 |
| mgedmin | th1a, very true | 20:35 |
| mgedmin | show the outstanding explanation under the attendance record? | 20:36 |
| th1a | Or beside it. | 20:36 |
| th1a | Not really sure. | 20:36 |
| mgedmin | anyway, I'm not an artist and any icons I'd try to draw would take a long time and look horrible | 20:36 |
| th1a | But they should also be separate, so it is clear that they have a different status. | 20:36 |
| erchache | arrgghhh i patched my schooltool instance....i need to do same on schoolbell :-( | 20:37 |
| erchache | strange....fails....and when change view time format....dissapear :-S | 20:40 |
| erchache | ignas | 20:40 |
| erchache | th1a | 20:40 |
| * mgedmin understandeth not | 20:40 | |
| erchache | this is good? | 20:40 |
| th1a | I don't understand either. | 20:41 |
| erchache | i try to make a recursive event | 20:42 |
| erchache | on tomorrow's events appears | 20:42 |
| erchache | but on calendar not | 20:42 |
| erchache | :-S | 20:42 |
| erchache | ignas | 20:42 |
| erchache | th1a | 20:42 |
| erchache | this patch doesnt run properly :-( | 20:43 |
| th1a | Well, perhaps it is dependent on some other changes. | 20:43 |
| erchache | bug arent solved.....start point are infinite | 20:44 |
| erchache | :'-( | 20:44 |
| erchache | th1a, ignas, this patch doesnt run :-( | 20:46 |
| th1a | Well, it would probably be helpful if you'd do an svn check-out and see if the problem is still in the trunk. | 20:47 |
| erchache | i dont understand greek language :-P | 20:47 |
| th1a | That's the problem... | 20:48 |
| erchache | i dont know how svn repositorie runs | 20:48 |
| th1a | Yes. | 20:48 |
| th1a | Are you doing this on your Mac? | 20:48 |
| erchache | nope | 20:48 |
| erchache | on my sun fire with ubuntu | 20:48 |
| th1a | Well, that makes it easy. | 20:49 |
| erchache | do you say i need to use a svn software version instead stable no? | 20:49 |
| erchache | download via svn software and overwrite data.fs? | 20:49 |
| th1a | What I'm saying is that we should confirm that your bug is fixed. | 20:49 |
| th1a | Or not. | 20:49 |
| erchache | :-S | 20:50 |
| erchache | th1a: no....bug arent fixed | 20:50 |
| th1a | There is no point in doing a bugfix release if the bug is still there. | 20:50 |
| th1a | By the way, were you looking at an existing event, or one you just created? | 20:51 |
| erchache | and what should i do? | 20:51 |
| erchache | i just created new one | 20:51 |
| th1a | OK. | 20:51 |
| erchache | i create a new event and after see if its correct | 20:52 |
| th1a | apt-get install subversion | 20:52 |
| erchache | jejejeje.....a little of morphine doctor.... | 20:53 |
| erchache | a second... | 20:53 |
| erchache | installing subversion | 20:54 |
| erchache | done... | 20:54 |
| erchache | th1a: what more? | 20:54 |
| th1a | mgedmin: btw, I won't make you fix section permissions on this contract. | 20:54 |
| th1a | To download a the development trunk, put yourself in an appropriate directory and type: | 20:55 |
| erchache | im on /var/tmp | 20:55 |
| th1a | svn co http://source.schooltool.org/svn/trunk/schooltool schooltool-trunk | 20:55 |
| th1a | That's fine for now. | 20:55 |
| erchache | ok | 20:56 |
| erchache | downloading | 20:56 |
| erchache | and after....put my real data.fs on this development instance and redoing it no? | 20:56 |
| erchache | th1a | 20:56 |
| th1a | Well... you could copy it. | 20:56 |
| erchache | and launch on other port no? | 20:57 |
| th1a | I'd just try it with an empty Data.fs first. | 20:57 |
| th1a | You'll have to change the port if something else is already at 7080. | 20:57 |
| erchache | th1a: installing | 20:59 |
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| erchache | hehehehehe | 21:08 |
| erchache | runs! | 21:08 |
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| erchache | on trunk version bug are fixed! | 21:08 |
| erchache | :-D | 21:08 |
| erchache | th1a | 21:08 |
| erchache | ignas | 21:08 |
| erchache | what do i do for get this version?...overwrite data.fs and rerun daemon? | 21:09 |
| erchache | how i can put a trunk version on production mode? | 21:10 |
| erchache | overwriting src? | 21:11 |
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| th1a | erchache: Did that work? | 21:11 |
| erchache | yepa! | 21:12 |
| erchache | :-D | 21:12 |
| th1a | Did it work with your Data.fs? | 21:12 |
| erchache | no...i dont use my data.fs | 21:12 |
| th1a | OK. | 21:12 |
| erchache | i use a fresh installation from trunk | 21:12 |
| th1a | So there are some necessary changes that aren't in that patch. | 21:13 |
| th1a | It seemed like a good idea at the time. | 21:13 |
| erchache | and... | 21:13 |
| th1a | OK. I have to go to school. They're starting to enter their grades into SchoolTool's gradebook today. | 21:13 |
| erchache | what i need to put this trunk version on a stable production daemon? | 21:13 |
| erchache | :-S | 21:14 |
| erchache | what are you talking about? | 21:14 |
| th1a | That's another kettle of fish. | 21:14 |
| erchache | ahhh | 21:14 |
| th1a | We'll have to decide how we want to handle releasing these bugfixes. | 21:15 |
| erchache | ok | 21:15 |
| th1a | ttyl. | 21:15 |
| erchache | th1a: i overwrite trunk with data.fs and fails :-( | 21:17 |
| erchache | th1a: my old data.fs fail on trunk version....a bad upgrade? | 21:22 |
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| erchache | well....i left.... | 21:33 |
| erchache | th1a: thanks for all....im waiting for next release | 21:34 |
| erchache | :-D | 21:34 |
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| mgedmin | th1a, could you write up the changes you want for attendance views? | 21:37 |
| mgedmin | 'cause I'm already confused if what we discussed were just tossing variants in the sky, or something that I ought to work on | 21:38 |
| th1a | mgedmin: For the personal attendance view, right? | 21:45 |
| mgedmin | for all of them, I suppose | 21:48 |
| mgedmin | unless there are no things that should be changed for other views? | 21:48 |
| th1a | I think we were only talking about the one view. :-) | 21:49 |
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| pcardune | srichter: do you know anything about schooltool generations? is it possible to evolve a Data.fs from generation 4 all the way to 8? Are there possible problems with deprecations? | 22:40 |
| th1a | pcardune: I think this is something you'll have to test for yourself. | 22:40 |
| th1a | Even if we think it will work, we don't test this much. | 22:41 |
| pcardune | th1a: ok, i was just wondering. If the answer was "yes, generations work perfectly no matter what generation the database starts out of" then I would have quickly known any problems i was having were cando related | 22:42 |
| th1a | No, I don't think you'll be able to make that assumption. | 22:42 |
| pcardune | ok, that's good to know | 22:43 |
| th1a | We discussed creating a serious test runner for generations, but it hasn't made the cut. | 22:44 |
| pcardune | so, it might be necessary to install multiple versions of schooltool, and run the Data.fs through each of them, one at a time | 22:44 |
| th1a | It isn't the most pleasant thing to debug, I'd imagine. | 22:45 |
| pcardune | yeah... | 22:45 |
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| pcardune | hi ffsnoopy | 22:55 |
| ffsnoopy | hey | 22:55 |
| pcardune | ffsnoopy: was my email helpful and did you manage to make any progress? | 23:01 |
| ffsnoopy | um, localhost:7080/++competencies++ still doesn't work | 23:01 |
| pcardune | I can only think of trying to do a fresh checkout, because it works for me on a fresh checkout | 23:02 |
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| ffsnoopy | so remove the directory and start over? | 23:03 |
| jelkner | good afternoon! | 23:04 |
| pcardune | well... you don't have to remove it... just move it to cando-broken or something | 23:04 |
| pcardune | hello jelkner | 23:04 |
| jelkner | ready to start? | 23:04 |
| ffsnoopy | is there a benifit to keeping the old version? | 23:04 |
| jelkner | (or perhaps you already did? ;-) | 23:04 |
| pcardune | th1a: have you tried evolving a data.fs from schooltool calendar 0.11.3 to schooltool 2006? or do you have a Data.fs from schooltool-0.11.3 that I could use for testing? | 23:05 |
| pcardune | ffsnoopy: not if you don't have anything changed in it | 23:05 |
| pcardune | jelkner: yeah, we are ready | 23:05 |
| jelkner | Proposed agenda: | 23:05 |
| jelkner | 1. development/testing environment issues | 23:06 |
| jelkner | 2. time line and estimated workload | 23:06 |
| jelkner | 3. developer resources | 23:06 |
| th1a | pcardune: No, I haven't. | 23:06 |
| jelkner | anything else? | 23:06 |
| pcardune | th1a: is that something you guys want to support, because I have a pretty darn good bet that it doesn't work | 23:07 |
| pcardune | jelkner: sounds good | 23:07 |
| jelkner | OK, 1 | 23:07 |
| th1a | pcardune: Yes, we'll have to support that, and I agree that it is unlikely that it works right now. | 23:08 |
| jelkner | Nick Wheeler came by today and made cando2006 build | 23:08 |
| pcardune | that's good news | 23:08 |
| jelkner | http://fdouglas.elkner.net:8080 | 23:09 |
| jelkner | see if you can see it | 23:09 |
| jelkner | well? | 23:10 |
| pcardune | dave welsh just called | 23:10 |
| pcardune | I'm on the phone with him now | 23:10 |
| pcardune | jelkner: nope, unable to connect | 23:11 |
| ffsnoopy | connection refused | 23:11 |
| jelkner | hmm... | 23:11 |
| *** flint has joined #schooltool | 23:11 | |
| pcardune | hey flint | 23:11 |
| pcardune | welsh is trying to get onto irc | 23:12 |
| *** dwelsh has joined #schooltool | 23:12 | |
| flint | pcardune, hey I was late paul because I cannot spell... figure that for a schooltool experience... | 23:12 |
| dwelsh | hey fellas | 23:12 |
| flint | dwelsh, looks like you got it dave...hi there from the frozen north! | 23:12 |
| jelkner | ffsnoopy: try again | 23:12 |
| ffsnoopy | got it | 23:13 |
| ffsnoopy | looks a lot more different than the one I'm working on here at home | 23:13 |
| jelkner | pcardune: question - i start it with ./schooltool-server.py | 23:13 |
| pcardune | jelkner: correct | 23:13 |
| jelkner | but when I close the shell, it stops | 23:13 |
| ffsnoopy | add an & | 23:13 |
| ffsnoopy | that daemonizes it | 23:14 |
| jelkner | pcardune: why don't you start it? | 23:14 |
| pcardune | ok | 23:14 |
| jelkner | since you will be working on it anyway, let's make sure that works | 23:14 |
| dwelsh | hey, flint, btw | 23:15 |
| jelkner | i'll be updating the wiki later today | 23:15 |
| pcardune | jelkner: is this the one in your home directory? | 23:15 |
| jelkner | no, cando | 23:15 |
| flint | dwelsh, btw what... got a copy of schooltool working, and I want cando. | 23:15 |
| jelkner | flint: i'm working on an ubuntu wiki page | 23:16 |
| jelkner | perhaps you could help me test it? | 23:16 |
| flint | jelkner, what is the url? | 23:16 |
| pcardune | jelkner: ok, it's up and running | 23:17 |
| jelkner | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanDo | 23:17 |
| jelkner | cool | 23:17 |
| jelkner | the Data.fs file you need is in /home/jelkner | 23:17 |
| flint | jelkner, excellent... | 23:18 |
| ffsnoopy | pcardune: the fresh checkout worked...wow it's different! | 23:18 |
| pcardune | ffsnoopy: good | 23:18 |
| jelkner | pcardune: do you have the Data.fs file? | 23:18 |
| jelkner | it is cando.yhspatriot.net_Data.fs | 23:19 |
| pcardune | jelkner: yes I do, i have been playing with it for evolving/generating | 23:19 |
| jelkner | great | 23:19 |
| pcardune | currently schooltool2006 doesn't support migration from the last version of schooltool (and therefore cando) | 23:19 |
| jelkner | so, we have our environment | 23:19 |
| jelkner | ahh | 23:19 |
| dwelsh | flint: do you want to run CanDo version 2 (the last version?) | 23:19 |
| jelkner | when? | 23:19 |
| pcardune | so, we cant migrate until they support it | 23:19 |
| pcardune | which they will, says tom | 23:19 |
| jelkner | any idea when? | 23:20 |
| jelkner | th1a: any idea when? | 23:20 |
| flint | dwelsh, I will be happy to run CanDo version 2. Do you need breezy or dapper? | 23:20 |
| pcardune | presumably before the official release of ST2006 | 23:20 |
| dwelsh | flint: breezy | 23:20 |
| th1a | sorry... | 23:20 |
| jelkner | hopefully *much* before | 23:20 |
| dwelsh | flint: are you running on remote or local server? | 23:20 |
| flint | dwelsh, no problemmo. I have set up a lab for this purpose... | 23:20 |
| th1a | well... | 23:21 |
| jelkner | th1a: i'm trying to get my old Data.fs into the new cando | 23:21 |
| jelkner | paul says it depends on you | 23:21 |
| flint | dwelsh, this would be local but could include a remote server. | 23:21 |
| jelkner | any idea when we can make that happen? | 23:21 |
| dwelsh | flint: install, local or remote, instructions here: http://www.careercenter.arlington.k12.va.us/cando/setup_cando.htm | 23:21 |
| pcardune | jelkner: that is of course, unless we all do it manually with crazy pickle files, but I don't particularly like that idea | 23:21 |
| th1a | I'd strongly encourage you to investigate the issue yourself. | 23:21 |
| flint | jelkner, which paul. please refer to me as flint (out of respect for Paul :^) | 23:21 |
| jelkner | flint: i am | 23:22 |
| jelkner | when i say paul, i mean paul, not you ;-) | 23:22 |
| dwelsh | how long until Dapper is stable??? | 23:22 |
| dwelsh | any guesses? | 23:22 |
| jelkner | april | 23:22 |
| flint | dwelsh, got it, lemme look this over... | 23:22 |
| jelkner | it will become increasingly more and more stable between now and then | 23:23 |
| flint | dwelsh, you have been a busy boy dave... lots of words... | 23:23 |
| dwelsh | sorry... trying to help the unitiated | 23:23 |
| jelkner | flint: if you are going to install schooltool | 23:23 |
| jelkner | you can help us with the docs too | 23:24 |
| jelkner | look at schooltool.org | 23:24 |
| flint | jelkner, edubuntu breezy installs schooltool automatically, that is done. | 23:24 |
| jelkner | i started copying dave's stuff over there, but i'm a long way from finished | 23:24 |
| jelkner | installing isn't the issue, it is configuring it | 23:24 |
| flint | jelkner, btw Jeffmeister, how do you like automatix? did you tell welsh about it? | 23:25 |
| jelkner | later | 23:25 |
| jelkner | not on topic! | 23:25 |
| flint | jelkner, you always say that when I show off my ADD :^) | 23:26 |
| jelkner | http://www.schooltool.org/products/cando/documentation | 23:26 |
| jelkner | check that out | 23:26 |
| jelkner | we need help testing the docs | 23:26 |
| dwelsh | elkner: can you give me a logon and password to your server | 23:26 |
| jelkner | and finishing porting them over | 23:26 |
| jelkner | dwelsh: which one? | 23:27 |
| flint | jelkner, I will get on this... as well. | 23:27 |
| jelkner | ok, item 1 seems finished, yes? | 23:27 |
| pcardune | yes | 23:28 |
| jelkner | we need to talk about developer time and workload | 23:28 |
| flint | jelkner, the docs appaear to be plone eh? | 23:28 |
| jelkner | pcardune: can you spell out what you told me on the phone? | 23:28 |
| flint | jelkner, nice job who is running this copy of plone... | 23:28 |
| pcardune | sure | 23:29 |
| jelkner | tom hoffman | 23:29 |
| jelkner | pcardune: go for it | 23:29 |
| th1a | flint: bskahan set it up. | 23:29 |
| flint | jelkner, and will tom grace us with his presence? | 23:29 |
| flint | th1a, there you are tom eh? | 23:29 |
| th1a | I kicked the cat off my lap so I can type. | 23:29 |
| th1a | I was playing a little THAW. | 23:30 |
| jelkner | pcardune: we | 23:30 |
| jelkner | are waiting for you... | 23:30 |
| flint | th1a, this is very nice doc model... lemme look around. | 23:30 |
| pcardune | sorry, was talking to dwelsh | 23:30 |
| pcardune | ok, basically my concern is with the amount of time I have to offer for this project. | 23:30 |
| dwelsh | jelkner: I logged on to fdouglas as manager/schooltool | 23:31 |
| dwelsh | is that what you recommend for poking around? | 23:31 |
| pcardune | It is true that I can work about 7 hours a week, but these only come in small chunks of time, an hour here or there. small chunks of time for coding isn't as effective as nice big 8 hour blocks | 23:31 |
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| Diosan | Evening folks | 23:31 |
| Diosan | hows is everyone doing ? | 23:31 |
| th1a | Hi Diosan: we're in the middle of a meeting. | 23:32 |
| Diosan | oh ok | 23:32 |
| pcardune | hi Diosan | 23:32 |
| flint | Diosan, bitter, confused, middle aged, scheaming, but otherwise quite fine... | 23:32 |
| jelkner | so the question then becomes, what do we do? | 23:32 |
| Diosan | hey im not middle aged | 23:32 |
| Diosan | which makes it so much sadder | 23:32 |
| pcardune | flint: i thought you were passed the middle by now ;) | 23:32 |
| ffsnoopy | flint was referring to himself | 23:32 |
| Diosan | :( | 23:32 |
| Diosan | lol | 23:32 |
| jelkner | ffsnoopy could be the solution | 23:32 |
| Diosan | well im sorry | 23:32 |
| flint | pcardune, just you wait.... :^) | 23:32 |
| ffsnoopy | yes, i could be the solution to everything and anything ;) | 23:33 |
| Diosan | did not mean to interupt | 23:33 |
| jelkner | if you have the time, mitch, that would be my prefered solution | 23:33 |
| pcardune | right, so if ffsnoopy and/or others can rise fast enough to the level of understanding needed to make serious progress, then we are fine | 23:33 |
| Diosan | i waas just wondering how one would get the 2006 alpha code working on windows | 23:33 |
| jelkner | you take up the slack from paul | 23:33 |
| flint | pcardune, the sad thing is paul that you will not get any smarter than you are right now. That is why your time on this project is so damn valuable... | 23:33 |
| Diosan | since that build covered most of my intended modifications | 23:33 |
| jelkner | btw. i put in a call to devIs this afternoon | 23:34 |
| Diosan | and would be perfect for me to show to the higher ups since they INSIST on windows :( | 23:34 |
| jelkner | peter is away (today was his 50th b'day) | 23:34 |
| jelkner | but he'll be back on thursday | 23:34 |
| flint | jelkner, Peter Gallager is 50! damn!!! | 23:34 |
| jelkner | my plan is to set up a meeting with him, martin, dave, and mike morton from aps | 23:35 |
| pcardune | anyways, flint 's comments aside, i would recommend actual professional training, if that is an option, for people who want to work on CanDo | 23:35 |
| flint | Diosan, the client part runs fine on windows :^) | 23:35 |
| jelkner | and to discuss how ffsnoopy and pcardune might be able to work at devIs on CanDo | 23:35 |
| Diosan | hey guys are any of you available on the phone number for Shuffleworth | 23:36 |
| jelkner | so i'm working on the long term solution | 23:36 |
| Diosan | called there the other night just got the phone | 23:36 |
| flint | pcardune, are you saying that we all have to go and have lunch with Stephan or Tom? | 23:36 |
| flint | pcardune, I am game for this btw. | 23:36 |
| jelkner | ffsnoopy: do you have the time now to do what needs to be done? | 23:36 |
| ffsnoopy | you mean what paul gave me to do? | 23:36 |
| ffsnoopy | i have time for that | 23:36 |
| jelkner | yes, and other stuff that comes up as we go | 23:37 |
| ffsnoopy | i've got lots of time now that first semester is over | 23:37 |
| jelkner | cool | 23:37 |
| pcardune | flint: well, if they are willing, there is no better source of knowledge about all things Zope than them | 23:37 |
| flint | pcardune, serously, I think that your idea of training people up to maintain and expand is the part that most of these FOSS projects are missing. | 23:37 |
| flint | pcardune, in other words you are clearly on to something here... | 23:38 |
| pcardune | flint: well, if you would like any more of my extremely good ideas, I'm going to have to start charging consultancy fees ;) | 23:38 |
| flint | pcardune, yea, but I actually have charged people for my ideas (sad to say :^) | 23:38 |
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| jelkner | ok, how should i start using cando2006 and writing up user stories? | 23:38 |
| flint | pcardune, how would ou train folks up smart fellow? | 23:38 |
| th1a | We need to debug the database upgrade process. | 23:39 |
| jelkner | pcardune: did you get my last question? | 23:39 |
| pcardune | jelkner: yes, first thing you can do is look at through the web creation of competencies | 23:40 |
| th1a | That is, jelkner needs to give us bug reports, since he's the one with real data. | 23:40 |
| jelkner | th1a: actually, dwelsh is the one with real data | 23:40 |
| jelkner | but we need to be able to move it into the new version | 23:40 |
| jelkner | since it took him a *long* time to enter it all | 23:41 |
| jelkner | that's the top of the wish list now | 23:41 |
| flint | pcardune, is jeff talking about the old import/export problem? | 23:41 |
| th1a | Well, someone needs to tell us what happens when you try to migrate. | 23:41 |
| th1a | No. | 23:41 |
| jelkner | a way to get cando2006 data into cando2006 | 23:41 |
| jelkner | pcardune and do that | 23:41 |
| th1a | 2005 > 2006. | 23:41 |
| pcardune | flint: no, we are talking about automatic migration of ZODB Data.fs files | 23:41 |
| jelkner | s/and/can | 23:42 |
| th1a | It should work, but it probably doesn't. We need user feedback. Bug reports. | 23:42 |
| jelkner | pcardune? | 23:42 |
| pcardune | but we need to test that specifically with schooltool... not with cando and schooltool | 23:42 |
| jelkner | how? | 23:42 |
| jelkner | the data we have is cando data | 23:42 |
| pcardune | meaning schooltool-0.11.3 > schooltool2006 | 23:43 |
| pcardune | right, you will need to make some schooltool data :) | 23:43 |
| th1a | Oh... that's right. | 23:43 |
| th1a | Are you going to try to write generations scripts for CanDo as well? | 23:43 |
| th1a | That's a much bigger change. | 23:43 |
| pcardune | because I know for certain, that even if schooltool-0.11.3 > schooltool2006 doesn't mean cando2005>cando2006 will work... in fact i know it wont | 23:43 |
| jelkner | i'm confused (which often happens) | 23:44 |
| pcardune | but that second part will be much easier to solve once the first part has been solved | 23:44 |
| jelkner | here is my user story: i want to use my cando2005 Data.fs file in cando2006 | 23:44 |
| jelkner | what needs to be done to make that possible | 23:44 |
| jelkner | this will happen to us each year | 23:44 |
| pcardune | jelkner: to do that, we must first satisfy schooltool-0.11.3>schooltool2006 | 23:45 |
| jelkner | how? | 23:45 |
| flint | pcardune, this is why I mentioned the old import/export thing... | 23:45 |
| th1a | I think what we need to do is just start trying it and debugging as we go. | 23:45 |
| jelkner | th1a: that works for me | 23:45 |
| pcardune | we either do it ourselves, or wait until tom pays someone else to do it (since they are going to anyways at some point) | 23:45 |
| jelkner | i've given pcardune a file to test with | 23:45 |
| th1a | I think you should hack your way through it. | 23:46 |
| jelkner | to whom should he send results? | 23:46 |
| th1a | Ours should work, it just hasn't really been tested. | 23:46 |
| jelkner | pcardune: you now have everything you need for testing, yes? | 23:47 |
| jelkner | and you know how to reach folks for help | 23:47 |
| jelkner | so we are all set with that, yes? | 23:47 |
| pcardune | yes | 23:47 |
| jelkner | cool | 23:47 |
| jelkner | only one last agenda item, then | 23:48 |
| jelkner | we need to get you and ffsnoopy paid! | 23:48 |
| jelkner | can you send me an email with hours? | 23:48 |
| jelkner | then dave and i can work with kris to get your invoices in | 23:48 |
| pcardune | sure | 23:48 |
| jelkner | ffsnoopy? | 23:48 |
| ffsnoopy | im here | 23:49 |
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| jelkner | can you send dave and i a summary of your hours? | 23:49 |
| ffsnoopy | um, when I start, yes | 23:49 |
| jelkner | you have already, haven't you? | 23:49 |
| ffsnoopy | i'm still on a learning curve for the time being | 23:49 |
| th1a | pcardune: Once we get a better sense of how much work needs to be done on the SchoolTool side, we can divide the work up if necessary. I'm just saying, if it isn't much, you'll be better off just doing it yourselves, because it could be a month before we get to it. | 23:49 |
| jelkner | once you start completing things pcardune asks you to do, you're on the clock | 23:50 |
| pcardune | th1a: ok, i'll consider it, i think we have bigger fish to fry at the moment though | 23:50 |
| ffsnoopy | sounds good jelkner | 23:50 |
| pcardune | maybe ffsnoopy wants to look into that ;) | 23:50 |
| jelkner | pcardune: i would rather you handle this one for now | 23:51 |
| pcardune | jelkner: ok | 23:51 |
| jelkner | it is not fair to him, and we really need it done | 23:51 |
| th1a | pcardune: Well, that's the question... it seems like not being able to migrate this data is screwing up getting feedback from your users, so it needs to be done soon. | 23:51 |
| jelkner | ok, same time next week? | 23:51 |
| jelkner | i'll take no response as a confirmation ;-) | 23:52 |
| flint | jelkner, one minute... | 23:52 |
| flint | Tom, at one point Elkner talked about some courseware in support of schooltool / cando. | 23:52 |
| flint | we have a lot of folks in the learning curve. How can we build this product if most of us are not competent with the tool, zope3? I am not asking for money (right now), I am asking for a course. | 23:52 |
| flint | The course should be called "the tools to make the tools" of schooltool. Could you teach this? | 23:52 |
| th1a | jelkner & dwelsh: In a somewhat related note, I worked up a method for scripting the setup of a school, so that it is easy to build or rebuild the whole school by parsing text files. | 23:53 |
| jelkner | wow | 23:53 |
| dwelsh | sounds good. I'd like to take a look at it. | 23:53 |
| jelkner | where can we get a look at it? | 23:53 |
| flint | th1a, where is it? | 23:54 |
| th1a | Well, there isn't much to look at, since it is scripts. | 23:54 |
| th1a | I haven't checked it in. | 23:54 |
| jelkner | how would one learn to use it? | 23:54 |
| flint | th1a, automatix is scripts... | 23:54 |
| th1a | But basically I'm using the sample data framework that is in ST2006, except instead of generating random fake data, it pulls the data out of CSV files. | 23:55 |
| th1a | You have to manually write the scripts to parse whatever CSV you have, | 23:55 |
| th1a | but it definitely seems like the way to go. | 23:55 |
| pcardune | jelkner: we can generate random data for cando now... i setup stuff for doing that | 23:55 |
| jelkner | great | 23:55 |
| th1a | Perhaps jelkner can just start testing with that then. | 23:56 |
| jelkner | th1a: i'm doing actual user testing | 23:56 |
| jelkner | i want to use it with my students and see how it works | 23:56 |
| th1a | Ah. | 23:56 |
| jelkner | testing with fake data would be hard for me | 23:56 |
| th1a | Right. | 23:57 |
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| flint | jelkner, Jeff you have a Young Frankstein complex... | 23:57 |
| th1a | I'll try to check in the "setup data" stuff later this week. | 23:57 |
| pcardune | creating monsters? | 23:57 |
| th1a | I need to write some tests before it'll get past mgedmin. | 23:57 |
| jelkner | ok, until next week then.. | 23:57 |
| flint | pcardune, testing on your own... | 23:57 |
| dwelsh | righto o. nice to hear from all. | 23:58 |
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| flint | dwelsh, I will be attempting to do meaningful stuff. Thanks for the links!!! | 23:58 |
| flint | sksk | 23:58 |
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