IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2006-01-31

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tiredbonesuses of the verb will00:46
tiredbonessorry about that.00:46
th1aIRC non-sequitur.00:46
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pcarduneth1a:  Are there any plans for improving the sample data generation?  specifically to make it more customizable?  not for extensions but for people who don't want there computer to croak trying to create an unnecessarily large amount of data02:39
th1aWell, it isn't high on the list of things to do.02:42
pcarduneok, just wondering02:42
hliebermanI have a question: Could the schooltool system be modified to work in a module system?02:43
th1aI mean, I'd rather make it more efficient than start cutting down the amount of data we generate.02:43
th1aWe don't want to make a system that doesn't actually work under real loads.02:43
th1aAlthough generating sample data is a bit artificial.02:43
th1ahlieberman:  What do you mean?02:43
hliebermanth1a, Well, best way to think of it is this:02:44
hliebermanYear is divided up into 7 pieces.02:44
hliebermanFour blocks per day.02:44
hliebermanEach class can span any which way on this grid, though most don't go very far.02:44
th1aHow is this different than a more traditional schedule?02:45
hliebermanI guess not that...02:45
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povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5713:12:30
povbot/svn/commits: Interleave day and section attendance records so that records falling on one date are grouped together.12:30
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5714:12:35
povbot/svn/commits: Make sparklines symmetric.12:35
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povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5715:14:15
povbot/svn/commits: Added a function to determine the closest section meeting on a given day.  Not used yet.14:15
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povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5716:15:38
povbot/svn/commits: Fix sparklines (do not scale images).  Oops.  Also add two hidden fields that will become useful soon.15:38
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5717:15:38
povbot/svn/commits: Oops again.15:38
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5718:15:45
povbot/svn/commits: Bookmarkable URL for "the nearest meeting of this section".15:45
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* mgedmin wonders when th1a will wake up17:18
shaprSleeping Duty?17:19
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erchacheth1a: hi18:57
erchachewhat happs with script to solve issue 461?18:57
ignaserchache, we wait for a bugfix release and then give it to you19:20
erchacheok... :-D19:20
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th1aignas & erchache:  Can we give erchache a patch?19:52
ignasth1a, hi19:52
th1aI just got back from taking Kitty to the veterinarian.19:53
th1aShe wasn't very happy with the whole process.19:54
erchachesorry im trying to install zope on my powerbook19:54
th1aerchache:  I'll upload your slides later today.19:55
ignas <- the patch19:55
erchacheand what need to do with it?....decompress on subdir schooltool instance?19:56
ignaspatch -p0 < the-patch-in-a-file19:56
mgedminwell, if you do not know what to do with it, it will probably not help19:57
mgedminwould it apply against the last release cleanly?19:57
th1aHm... good question.19:57
th1aWell, it was a thought.19:58
erchachea second...19:58 going to download it and apply patch...before make a backup of subdir instance20:00
erchachei need to save it into a file....and apply patch no?20:00
erchacheargghh many files need to patch no?20:01
th1aYes. Let us know if it works.20:01
erchachei need to patching all these files no?20:01
erchacheok ok....20:02
erchachepath isnt same...i need to find these files20:05
erchacheits take time...20:06
ignasthey were in schoolbell not schooltool back then :/20:07
ignasth1a, now about the attendance data and the green lines20:13
ignasin sparklines20:13
th1aAh, yes.20:13
ignasthe lack of excused attendance records is because: only 50% of them got explanations (a setting that can get changed very easily)20:14
ignasand - day abscences are a lot more common20:14
th1aMake 80% explained.20:14
ignasand they are not marking associated section absences as excused20:14
th1aThey should.20:15
ignasnow as to the variables20:17
ignasmaybe you could look into the sample data plugin directly20:17
ignasall the variables are documented there20:17
ignasso you could just tell me what values would be better suited to you20:17
erchacheth1a: where i can paste a piece of code? i dont know if i patch good20:18
th1aSo 90% of absences are converted to tardies?20:19
erchachedef doctest_InfinitePastEventsBug():20:19
erchache+    """Regression test for
erchache+        >>> from schooltool.calendar.simple import SimpleCalendarEvent20:19
erchache+        >>> from schooltool.calendar.recurrent import WeeklyRecurrenceRule20:19
erchache+        >>> ev = SimpleCalendarEvent(datetime(2006, 1, 18, tzinfo=pytz.utc),20:19
erchache+        ...                          timedelta(hours=1), 'Sample event',20:20
erchache+        ...                          recurrence=WeeklyRecurrenceRule())20:20
erchache+        >>> for e in ev.expand(datetime(2006, 1, 1, tzinfo=pytz.utc),20:20
erchache+        ...                    datetime(2006, 2, 1, tzinfo=pytz.utc)):20:20
erchache+        ...     print e.dtstart20:20
erchache+        2006-01-18 00:00:00+00:0020:20
erchache+        2006-01-25 00:00:00+00:0020:20
erchache+    """20:20
erchache def test_suite():20:20
erchache     suite = unittest.TestSuite()20:20
ignasth1a, yes20:20
erchache+    suite.addTest(doctest.DocTestSuite())20:20
erchache     suite.addTest(unittest.makeSuite(TestDailyRecurrenceRule))20:20
erchache     suite.addTest(unittest.makeSuite(TestYearlyRecurrenceRule))20:20
erchachesorry :-S20:20
th1aignas:  Does that count day tardies?20:20
ignasth1a, there are no day tardies20:20
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erchachewell...i need to know how to modify a file....20:21
erchachedef doctest_InfinitePastEventsBug():20:21
erchache    """Regression test for
erchache        from schooltool.calendar.simple import SimpleCalendarEvent20:21
erchache        from schooltool.calendar.recurrent import WeeklyRecurrenceRule20:21
erchache        ev = SimpleCalendarEvent(datetime(2006, 1, 18, tzinfo=pytz.utc),20:21
erchache        ...           timedelta(hours=1), 'Sample event',20:21
erchache        ...                          recurrence=WeeklyRecurrenceRule())20:21
erchache        for e in ev.expand(datetime(2006, 1, 1, tzinfo=pytz.utc),20:21
erchache        ...                    datetime(2006, 2, 1, tzinfo=pytz.utc)):20:21
erchache        ...     print e.dtstart20:21
erchachethis is ok?20:21
erchacheneed to quit ...20:22
erchacheand put on same line?20:22
ignasi was thinking that you might want to play with attendance data that is generated so made percentages easy to change20:22
th1aignsas: Basically, I'd just increase the explanation rate to 80% and the reject rate to 20%.20:22
ignaserchache, can't tell, try running tests20:22
erchachei finish to patch files20:23
erchachewhat need to do now, a remake?20:23
erchacheth1a ignas20:23
ignasth1a, not really nescessary, as these are exclusive ... which means - 80% are accepted, 30% of *those that are not accepted* are rejected20:23
ignaserchache, make test ftest20:23
erchachepython install20:23
erchachetwo errors20:25
erchacheignas: 2 errors20:25
erchachea second20:26
erchacheim making a test20:26
* th1a imagines ignas cursing him for suggesting erchache patch his server.20:27
ignasth1a, nah, it's erchaches problem not mine :D20:27
ignasth1a, and - i actually like my job ;)20:28
th1aignas:  Regardless, excused absences are downward pointing and green?20:28
th1aignas:  I like my job too, and I do like working with you.20:28
mgedminth1a, did you read my mail?20:28
mgedminexcused absences are downward pointing and black20:29
th1aI keep getting distracted.20:29
th1aOh, black.20:29
th1aThat makes more sense.20:29
erchacheignas: what do you think fails?20:29
ignaserchache, LC_ALL=C make test ?20:30
th1aSorry I was smoking crack about green lines.20:30
erchacheignas: need to put this in cmd?20:30
mgedmingreen smoke?20:30
erchacheignas: running......20:31
th1aSo in the workflow, submitting an explanation and accepting/rejecting it are separate?20:31
th1aThis makes sense...20:31
mgedminyou can do both in the form, if you want to20:32
mgedminor you can do them as separate steps20:32
mgedmininteresting; LC_ALL=C failed to work20:33
th1aSo yes, the form needs something to separate excuses which already have explanations but are pending.20:33
mgedminerchache, or maybe you changed the language option in directly?20:33
mgedminanyway, those failures are harmless20:33
mgedminth1a, I was thinking maybe little parchment icons or something20:34
mgedminwith maybe little green v marks or little red x marks20:34
mgedminto show accepted/rejected explanations20:34
erchachewhat do i do now? :-S20:34
ignasrun the schooltool20:34
mgedminerchache, try running it and see if your error is gone20:35
ignasenjoy the  bugfix20:35
ignaspraise the developers20:35
erchachebut dont i need to recompile it?20:35
erchachetrying to make a recursive event bigger than a month20:35
th1amgedmin:  You'd want to see what the explanation was if you were accepting or rejecting it.20:35
mgedminth1a, very true20:35
mgedminshow the outstanding explanation under the attendance record?20:36
th1aOr beside it.20:36
th1aNot really sure.20:36
mgedminanyway, I'm not an artist and any icons I'd try to draw would take a long time and look horrible20:36
th1aBut they should also be separate, so it is clear that they have a different status.20:36
erchachearrgghhh i patched my schooltool instance....i need to do same on schoolbell :-(20:37
erchachestrange....fails....and when change view time format....dissapear :-S20:40
* mgedmin understandeth not20:40
erchachethis is good?20:40
th1aI don't understand either.20:41
erchachei try to make a recursive event20:42
erchacheon tomorrow's events appears20:42
erchachebut on calendar not20:42
erchachethis patch doesnt run properly :-(20:43
th1aWell, perhaps it is dependent on some other changes.20:43
erchachebug arent solved.....start point are infinite20:44
erchacheth1a, ignas, this patch doesnt run :-(20:46
th1aWell, it would probably be helpful if you'd do an svn check-out and see if the problem is still in the trunk.20:47
erchachei dont understand greek language :-P20:47
th1aThat's the problem...20:48
erchachei dont know how svn repositorie runs20:48
th1aAre you doing this on your Mac?20:48
erchacheon my sun fire with ubuntu20:48
th1aWell, that makes it easy.20:49
erchachedo you say i need to use a svn software version instead stable no?20:49
erchachedownload via svn software and overwrite data.fs?20:49
th1aWhat I'm saying is that we should confirm that your bug is fixed.20:49
th1aOr not.20:49
erchacheth1a: no....bug arent fixed20:50
th1aThere is no point in doing a bugfix release if the bug is still there.20:50
th1aBy the way, were you looking at an existing event, or one you just created?20:51
erchacheand what should i do?20:51
erchachei just created new one20:51
erchachei create a new event and after see if its correct20:52
th1aapt-get install subversion20:52
erchachejejejeje.....a little of morphine doctor....20:53
erchachea second...20:53
erchacheinstalling subversion20:54
erchacheth1a: what more?20:54
th1amgedmin:  btw, I won't make you fix section permissions on this contract.20:54
th1aTo download a the development trunk, put yourself in an appropriate directory and type:20:55
erchacheim on /var/tmp20:55
th1asvn co schooltool-trunk20:55
th1aThat's fine for now.20:55
erchacheand after....put my real data.fs on this development instance and redoing it no?20:56
th1aWell... you could copy it.20:56
erchacheand launch on other port no?20:57
th1aI'd just try it with an empty Data.fs first.20:57
th1aYou'll have to change the port if something else is already at 7080.20:57
erchacheth1a: installing20:59
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erchacheon trunk version bug are fixed!21:08
erchachewhat do i do for get this version?...overwrite data.fs and rerun daemon?21:09
erchachehow i can put a trunk version on production mode?21:10
erchacheoverwriting src?21:11
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th1aerchache:  Did that work?21:11
th1aDid it work with your Data.fs?21:12
erchacheno...i dont use my data.fs21:12
erchachei use a fresh installation from trunk21:12
th1aSo there are some necessary changes that aren't in that patch.21:13
th1aIt seemed like a good idea at the time.21:13
th1aOK.  I have to go to school.  They're starting to enter their grades into SchoolTool's gradebook today.21:13
erchachewhat i need to put this trunk version on a stable production daemon?21:13
erchachewhat are you talking about?21:14
th1aThat's another kettle of fish.21:14
th1aWe'll have to decide how we want to handle releasing these bugfixes.21:15
erchacheth1a: i overwrite trunk with data.fs and fails :-(21:17
erchacheth1a: my old data.fs fail on trunk version....a bad upgrade?21:22
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erchachewell....i left....21:33
erchacheth1a: thanks for waiting for next release21:34
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mgedminth1a, could you write up the changes you want for attendance views?21:37
mgedmin'cause I'm already confused if what we discussed were just tossing variants in the sky, or something that I ought to work on21:38
th1amgedmin:  For the personal attendance view, right?21:45
mgedminfor all of them, I suppose21:48
mgedminunless there are no things that should be changed for other views?21:48
th1aI think we were only talking about the one view. :-)21:49
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pcardunesrichter: do you know anything about schooltool generations?  is it possible to evolve a Data.fs from generation 4 all the way to 8?  Are there possible problems with deprecations?22:40
th1apcardune:  I think this is something you'll have to test for yourself.22:40
th1aEven if we think it will work, we don't test this much.22:41
pcarduneth1a: ok, i was just wondering.  If the answer was "yes, generations work perfectly no matter what generation the database starts out of"  then I would have quickly known any problems i was having were cando related22:42
th1aNo, I don't think you'll be able to make that assumption.22:42
pcarduneok, that's good to know22:43
th1aWe discussed creating a serious test runner for generations, but it hasn't made the cut.22:44
pcarduneso, it might be necessary to install multiple versions of schooltool, and run the Data.fs through each of them, one at a time22:44
th1aIt isn't the most pleasant thing to debug, I'd imagine.22:45
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pcardunehi ffsnoopy22:55
pcarduneffsnoopy: was my email helpful and did you manage to make any progress?23:01
ffsnoopyum, localhost:7080/++competencies++ still doesn't work23:01
pcarduneI can only think of trying to do a fresh checkout, because it works for me on a fresh checkout23:02
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ffsnoopyso remove the directory and start over?23:03
jelknergood afternoon!23:04
pcardunewell... you don't have to remove it... just move it to cando-broken or something23:04
pcardunehello jelkner23:04
jelknerready to start?23:04
ffsnoopyis there a benifit to keeping the old version?23:04
jelkner(or perhaps you already did? ;-)23:04
pcarduneth1a: have you tried evolving a data.fs from schooltool calendar 0.11.3 to schooltool 2006? or do you have a Data.fs from schooltool-0.11.3 that I could use for testing?23:05
pcarduneffsnoopy: not if you don't have anything changed in it23:05
pcardunejelkner: yeah, we are ready23:05
jelknerProposed agenda:23:05
jelkner1. development/testing environment issues23:06
jelkner2. time line and estimated workload23:06
jelkner3. developer resources23:06
th1apcardune:  No, I haven't.23:06
jelkneranything else?23:06
pcarduneth1a: is that something you guys want to support, because I have a pretty darn good bet that it doesn't work23:07
pcardunejelkner: sounds good23:07
jelknerOK, 123:07
th1apcardune: Yes, we'll have to support that, and I agree that it is unlikely that it works right now.23:08
jelknerNick Wheeler came by today and made cando2006 build23:08
pcardunethat's good news23:08
jelknersee if you can see it23:09
pcardunedave welsh just called23:10
pcarduneI'm on the phone with him now23:10
pcardunejelkner: nope, unable to connect23:11
ffsnoopyconnection refused23:11
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pcardunehey flint23:11
pcardunewelsh is trying to get onto irc23:12
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flintpcardune, hey I was late paul because I cannot spell... figure that for a schooltool experience...23:12
dwelshhey fellas23:12
flintdwelsh, looks like you got it dave...hi there from the frozen north!23:12
jelknerffsnoopy: try again23:12
ffsnoopygot it23:13
ffsnoopylooks a lot more different than the one I'm working on here at home23:13
jelknerpcardune: question - i start it with  ./schooltool-server.py23:13
pcardunejelkner: correct23:13
jelknerbut when I close the shell, it stops23:13
ffsnoopyadd an &23:13
ffsnoopythat daemonizes it23:14
jelknerpcardune: why don't you start it?23:14
jelknersince you will be working on it anyway, let's make sure that works23:14
dwelshhey, flint, btw23:15
jelkneri'll be updating the wiki later today23:15
pcardunejelkner: is this the one in your home directory?23:15
jelknerno, cando23:15
flintdwelsh, btw what... got a copy of schooltool working, and I want cando.23:15
jelknerflint: i'm working on an ubuntu wiki page23:16
jelknerperhaps you could help me test it?23:16
flintjelkner, what is the url?23:16
pcardunejelkner: ok, it's up and running23:17
jelknerthe Data.fs file you need is in /home/jelkner23:17
flintjelkner, excellent...23:18
ffsnoopypcardune: the fresh checkout it's different!23:18
pcarduneffsnoopy: good23:18
jelknerpcardune: do you have the Data.fs file?23:18
jelknerit is cando.yhspatriot.net_Data.fs23:19
pcardunejelkner: yes I do, i have been playing with it for evolving/generating23:19
pcardunecurrently schooltool2006 doesn't support migration from the last version of schooltool (and therefore cando)23:19
jelknerso, we have our environment23:19
dwelshflint:  do you want to run CanDo version 2 (the last version?)23:19
pcarduneso, we cant migrate until they support it23:19
pcardunewhich they will, says tom23:19
jelknerany idea when?23:20
jelknerth1a: any idea when?23:20
flintdwelsh, I will be happy to run CanDo version 2.  Do you need breezy or dapper?23:20
pcardunepresumably before the official release of ST200623:20
dwelshflint:  breezy23:20
jelknerhopefully *much* before23:20
dwelshflint:  are you running on remote or local server?23:20
flintdwelsh, no problemmo.  I have set up a lab for this purpose...23:20
jelknerth1a: i'm trying to get my old Data.fs into the new cando23:21
jelknerpaul says it depends on you23:21
flintdwelsh, this would be local but could include a remote server.23:21
jelknerany idea when we can make that happen?23:21
dwelshflint:  install, local or remote, instructions here:
pcardunejelkner: that is of course, unless we all do it manually with crazy pickle files, but I don't particularly like that idea23:21
th1aI'd strongly encourage you to investigate the issue yourself.23:21
flintjelkner, which paul. please refer to me as flint (out of respect for Paul :^)23:21
jelknerflint: i am23:22
jelknerwhen i say paul, i mean paul, not you ;-)23:22
dwelshhow long until Dapper is stable???23:22
dwelshany guesses?23:22
flintdwelsh, got it, lemme look this over...23:22
jelknerit will become increasingly more and more stable between now and then23:23
flintdwelsh, you have been a busy boy dave... lots of words...23:23
dwelshsorry... trying to help the unitiated23:23
jelknerflint: if you are going to install schooltool23:23
jelkneryou can help us with the docs too23:24
jelknerlook at schooltool.org23:24
flintjelkner, edubuntu breezy installs schooltool automatically, that is done.23:24
jelkneri started copying dave's stuff over there, but i'm a long way from finished23:24
jelknerinstalling isn't the issue, it is configuring it23:24
flintjelkner, btw Jeffmeister, how do you like automatix?  did you tell welsh about it?23:25
jelknernot on topic!23:25
flintjelkner, you always say that when I show off my ADD :^)23:26
jelknercheck that out23:26
jelknerwe need help testing the docs23:26
dwelshelkner:  can you give me a logon and password to your server23:26
jelknerand finishing porting them over23:26
jelknerdwelsh: which one?23:27
flintjelkner, I will get on this... as well.23:27
jelknerok, item 1 seems finished, yes?23:27
jelknerwe need to talk about developer time and workload23:28
flintjelkner, the docs appaear to be plone eh?23:28
jelknerpcardune: can you spell out what you told me on the phone?23:28
flintjelkner, nice job who is running this copy of plone...23:28
jelknertom hoffman23:29
jelknerpcardune: go for it23:29
th1aflint: bskahan set it up.23:29
flintjelkner, and will tom grace us with his presence?23:29
flintth1a, there you are tom eh?23:29
th1aI kicked the cat off my lap so I can type.23:29
th1aI was playing a little THAW.23:30
jelknerpcardune: we23:30
jelknerare waiting for you...23:30
flintth1a, this is very nice doc model... lemme look around.23:30
pcardunesorry, was talking to dwelsh23:30
pcarduneok, basically my concern is with the amount of time I have to offer for this project.23:30
dwelshjelkner:  I logged on to fdouglas as manager/schooltool23:31
dwelshis that what you recommend for poking around?23:31
pcarduneIt is true that I can work about 7 hours a week, but these only come in small chunks of time, an hour here or there.  small chunks of time for coding isn't as effective as nice big 8 hour blocks23:31
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DiosanEvening folks23:31
Diosanhows is everyone doing ?23:31
th1aHi Diosan:  we're in the middle of a meeting.23:32
Diosanoh ok23:32
pcardunehi Diosan23:32
flintDiosan, bitter, confused, middle aged, scheaming, but otherwise quite fine...23:32
jelknerso the question then becomes, what do we do?23:32
Diosanhey im not middle aged23:32
Diosanwhich makes it so much sadder23:32
pcarduneflint: i thought you were passed the middle by now ;)23:32
ffsnoopyflint was referring to himself23:32
jelknerffsnoopy could be the solution23:32
Diosanwell im sorry23:32
flintpcardune, just you wait....  :^)23:32
ffsnoopyyes, i could be the solution to everything and anything ;)23:33
Diosandid not mean to interupt23:33
jelknerif you have the time, mitch, that would be my prefered solution23:33
pcarduneright, so if ffsnoopy and/or others can rise fast enough to the level of understanding needed to make serious progress, then we are fine23:33
Diosani waas just wondering how one would get the 2006 alpha code working on windows23:33
jelkneryou take up the slack from paul23:33
flintpcardune, the sad thing is paul that you will not get any smarter than you are right now.  That is why your time on this project is so damn valuable...23:33
Diosansince that build covered most of my intended modifications23:33
jelknerbtw.  i put in a call to devIs this afternoon23:34
Diosanand would be perfect for me to show to the higher ups since they INSIST on windows :(23:34
jelknerpeter is away (today was his 50th b'day)23:34
jelknerbut he'll be back on thursday23:34
flintjelkner, Peter Gallager is 50! damn!!!23:34
jelknermy plan is to set up a meeting with him, martin, dave, and mike morton from aps23:35
pcarduneanyways, flint 's comments aside, i would recommend actual professional training, if that is an option, for people who want to work on CanDo23:35
flintDiosan, the client part runs fine on windows :^)23:35
jelknerand to discuss how ffsnoopy and pcardune might be able to work at devIs on CanDo23:35
Diosanhey guys are any of you available on the phone number for Shuffleworth23:36
jelknerso i'm working on the long term solution23:36
Diosancalled there the other night just got the phone23:36
flintpcardune, are you saying that we all have to go and have lunch with Stephan or Tom?23:36
flintpcardune, I am game for this btw.23:36
jelknerffsnoopy: do you have the time now to do what needs to be done?23:36
ffsnoopyyou mean what paul gave me to do?23:36
ffsnoopyi have time for that23:36
jelkneryes, and other stuff that comes up as we go23:37
ffsnoopyi've got lots of time now that first semester is over23:37
pcarduneflint: well, if they are willing, there is no better source of knowledge about all things Zope than them23:37
flintpcardune, serously, I think that your idea of training people up to maintain and expand is the part that most of these FOSS projects are missing.23:37
flintpcardune, in other words you are clearly on to something here...23:38
pcarduneflint: well, if you would like any more of my extremely good ideas, I'm going to have to start charging consultancy fees ;)23:38
flintpcardune, yea, but I actually have charged people for my ideas (sad to say :^)23:38
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jelknerok, how should i start using cando2006 and writing up user stories?23:38
flintpcardune, how would ou train folks up smart fellow?23:38
th1aWe need to debug the database upgrade process.23:39
jelknerpcardune: did you get my last question?23:39
pcardunejelkner: yes, first thing you can do is look at through the web creation of competencies23:40
th1aThat is, jelkner needs to give us bug reports, since he's the one with real data.23:40
jelknerth1a: actually, dwelsh is the one with real data23:40
jelknerbut we need to be able to move it into the new version23:40
jelknersince it took him a *long* time to enter it all23:41
jelknerthat's the top of the wish list now23:41
flintpcardune, is jeff talking about the old import/export problem?23:41
th1aWell, someone needs to tell us what happens when you try to migrate.23:41
jelknera way to get cando2006 data into cando200623:41
jelknerpcardune and do that23:41
th1a2005 > 2006.23:41
pcarduneflint: no, we are talking about automatic migration of ZODB Data.fs files23:41
th1aIt should work, but it probably doesn't.  We need user feedback.  Bug reports.23:42
pcardunebut we need to test that specifically with schooltool... not with cando and schooltool23:42
jelknerthe data we have is cando data23:42
pcardunemeaning schooltool-0.11.3 > schooltool200623:43
pcarduneright, you will need to make some schooltool data :)23:43
th1aOh... that's right.23:43
th1aAre you going to try to write generations scripts for CanDo as well?23:43
th1aThat's a much bigger change.23:43
pcardunebecause I know for certain, that even if schooltool-0.11.3 > schooltool2006 doesn't mean cando2005>cando2006 will work... in fact i know it wont23:43
jelkneri'm confused (which often happens)23:44
pcardunebut that second part will be much easier to solve once the first part has been solved23:44
jelknerhere is my user story:  i want to use my cando2005 Data.fs file in cando200623:44
jelknerwhat needs to be done to make that possible23:44
jelknerthis will happen to us each year23:44
pcardunejelkner: to do that, we must first satisfy schooltool-0.11.3>schooltool200623:45
flintpcardune, this is why I mentioned the old import/export thing...23:45
th1aI think what we need to do is just start trying it and debugging as we go.23:45
jelknerth1a: that works for me23:45
pcardunewe either do it ourselves, or wait until tom pays someone else to do it (since they are going to anyways at some point)23:45
jelkneri've given pcardune a file to test with23:45
th1aI think you should hack your way through it.23:46
jelknerto whom should he send results?23:46
th1aOurs should work, it just hasn't really been tested.23:46
jelknerpcardune: you now have everything you need for testing, yes?23:47
jelknerand you know how to reach folks for help23:47
jelknerso we are all set with that, yes?23:47
jelkneronly one last agenda item, then23:48
jelknerwe need to get you and ffsnoopy paid!23:48
jelknercan you send me an email with hours?23:48
jelknerthen dave and i can work with kris to get your invoices in23:48
ffsnoopyim here23:49
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jelknercan you send dave and i a summary of your hours?23:49
ffsnoopyum, when I start, yes23:49
jelkneryou have already, haven't you?23:49
ffsnoopyi'm still on a learning curve for the time being23:49
th1apcardune:  Once we get a better sense of how much work needs to be done on the SchoolTool side, we can divide the work up if necessary.  I'm just saying, if it isn't much, you'll be better off just doing it yourselves, because it could be a month before we get to it.23:49
jelkneronce you start completing things pcardune asks you to do, you're on the clock23:50
pcarduneth1a: ok, i'll consider it, i think we have bigger fish to fry at the moment though23:50
ffsnoopysounds good jelkner23:50
pcardunemaybe ffsnoopy wants to look into that ;)23:50
jelknerpcardune: i would rather you handle this one for now23:51
pcardunejelkner: ok23:51
jelknerit is not fair to him, and we really need it done23:51
th1apcardune:  Well, that's the question... it seems like not being able to migrate this data is screwing up getting feedback from your users, so it needs to be done soon.23:51
jelknerok, same time next week?23:51
jelkneri'll take no response as a confirmation ;-)23:52
flintjelkner, one minute...23:52
flintTom, at one point Elkner talked about some courseware in support of schooltool / cando.23:52
flintwe have a lot of folks in the learning curve.  How can we build this product if most of us are not competent with the tool, zope3?  I am not asking for money (right now), I am asking for a course.23:52
flintThe course should be called "the tools to make the tools" of schooltool.  Could you teach this?23:52
th1ajelkner & dwelsh:  In a somewhat related note, I worked up a method for scripting the setup of a school, so that it is easy to build or rebuild the whole school by parsing text files.23:53
dwelshsounds good.  I'd like to take a look at it.23:53
jelknerwhere can we get a look at it?23:53
flintth1a,  where is it?23:54
th1aWell, there isn't much to look at, since it is scripts.23:54
th1aI haven't checked it in.23:54
jelknerhow would one learn to use it?23:54
flintth1a, automatix is scripts...23:54
th1aBut basically I'm using the sample data framework that is in ST2006, except instead of generating random fake data, it pulls the data out of CSV files.23:55
th1aYou have to manually write the scripts to parse whatever CSV you have,23:55
th1abut it definitely seems like the way to go.23:55
pcardunejelkner: we can generate random data for cando now... i setup stuff for doing that23:55
th1aPerhaps jelkner can just start testing with that then.23:56
jelknerth1a: i'm doing actual user testing23:56
jelkneri want to use it with my students and see how it works23:56
jelknertesting with fake data would be hard for me23:56
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flintjelkner, Jeff you have a Young Frankstein complex...23:57
th1aI'll try to check in the "setup data" stuff later this week.23:57
pcardunecreating monsters?23:57
th1aI need to write some tests before it'll get past mgedmin.23:57
jelknerok, until next week then..23:57
flintpcardune, testing on your own...23:57
dwelshrighto o.  nice to hear from all.23:58
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flintdwelsh, I will be attempting to do meaningful stuff.  Thanks for the links!!!23:58
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