IRC log of #schooltool for Saturday, 2006-01-21

povbot/svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 5671:00:43
povbot/svn/commits: Add security declaration of a new method.00:43
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mhzhi all02:09
mhzwhat is schooltool developed on?02:12
th1aZope 302:12
th1aAnd Python.02:12
mhzohhh, i see02:13
* mhz loves python02:13
th1aThat's a good thing.02:13
* mhz still can't find docs about how much schooltool will be02:13
* mhz loves python but he's no devel :(02:13
* mhz uses Moin wiki 90% of the time, though :D02:14
th1aHow much what SchoolTool will be?02:14
mhzyeah, I only know what it includes today02:14
mhzbut no idea what the roadmap is or what near and further future modules will cover02:15
th1aAttendance, gradebook, enrollment, reporting...02:15
mhzlike, will it show a graph about how many classrooms teach same subject in a week? or how many hours a subject is being tought, etc02:16
th1aNot in the short term.02:16
th1aI mean, that's not on our roadmap, but you're welcome to make a contribution ;-)02:16
mhzsee? I have not found info about it saying this is today, this will be tomorrow, and this will be next months02:17
mhzth1a: ahhhh02:17
mhzso shooltool has not defined it's goals yet?02:18
* mhz could dream of many things02:18
th1aNo, we have defined goals.02:18
* mhz reads, obediently02:19
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mhzbefore opening the mouth again ;)02:19
mhzmichael__: hey!02:19
mhzask th1a02:20
mhzhe can enlighten us02:20
michael__ok so integration with other php/mysql projects?02:20
mhzth1a: michael__ is coming from #edubunt, just like me02:20
michael__claroline etc..02:20
mhz#edubuntu, sorry02:21
th1aWell, we're Python & Zope 3, so integration has to be a bit indirect.02:21
th1aWe've incorporated web services into our design, so that is one option.02:21
th1aIf the LMS also supports web services.02:21
th1aOr someone could write adapters to allow us to sink our claws into other applications' databases.02:22
michael__does schooltool save in database(mysql access type etc...) or a file?02:23
michael__hope you got that..02:23
th1aSchoolTool uses the Zope Object Database (ZODB).02:24
th1aPersistent Python objects.02:24
th1aRather different than a RDBMS.02:24
mhzth1a: how many work-on-daily-basis devels besides from you, of course?02:26
th1aI'm not really a developer.02:26
th1aWe have several part-time teams at this point.02:26
mhzohh, i see02:26
th1aProgrammers of Vilnius ( work on SchoolTool about 40% of the time.02:26
th1aStephan Richter will be working pretty much full time the next four or five months.02:27
th1aInfrae ( is going to do a couple projects for us over the next few months.02:27
michael__jeeez i'm jsut a hobbyist :-P02:29
michael__i guess if you want to you could use php sockets to talk ot python...02:29
michael__but what is the point of the integration?02:29
michael__like what is it to achieve?02:30
th1amichael__: You brought it up.  What do you want to achieve?02:31
michael__i was doing something for edubuntu and mhz brought up this integrating,,,02:31
mhzi just asked02:31
th1aHere is what I'd like to see in Edubuntu, although it won't happen anytime soon.02:32
th1aThere is a standard mostly used in the US called SIF (, which is used to integrate different systems in schools.02:32
mhzooops, wife calling me for dinner02:32
th1aIt is a public spec, but there aren't open source impementations right now.02:33
th1aI'd like to see Edubuntu ship with SIF integration built in.02:33
th1aEnd of story.02:33
* mhz will read02:33
michael__loading page :-p02:33
michael__An error occurred while loading
michael__Timeout on server02:33
michael__ Connection was to at port 8002:33
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michael__ok better02:34
th1aNote that SchoolTool doesn't support SIF at this point either.02:34
michael__yeah i guessed that since it needed https02:35
michael__makes it a bit harder to sniff huh?02:35
th1aAlthough getting HTTPS going is hardly the difficult part.02:36
michael__i'll jsut stick with writing my math calc02:36
michael__so does that cert mean anything really?02:37
michael__like do schools look for it?02:37
th1aIt is used some in the US.02:38
th1aThe UK is considering recommending it.02:38
th1aIt isn't very sexy, but nobody is going to start that kind of project over from scratch.02:38
th1aAt least anytime soon.02:38
michael__what kind02:38
th1aNo, make a new SIF.02:39
th1aPeople write student information systems all the time,02:39
th1athey just don't write flexible, well-documented, well-tested open source ones.02:40
michael__well my school won't budge until theres a novell netware repalcmnt02:41
th1aNovell Linux@02:42
michael__novell netware doesn't run on linux yet02:42
th1aIs Netware the OS itself?02:43
michael__netware is the os02:43
michael__but the client02:43
michael__only uses windows02:43
michael__well i've g2g02:45
michael__i'm too tired to stay on02:45
th1aGood night.02:45
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th1aHoly crap it's -12 in Vilnius!03:12
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* mhz reading backlogs04:32
mhzIn Chile, an professional someone, experto on whatever insisted I give a try04:34
mhzit is very similar to moodle04:34
mhzthough I have not installed it yet04:35
mhzHowever, i wonder... if moodle and claroline are oriented towards creation of edu-content, what would take them to start adding the approach of SchoolTool04:36
mhz(classroom management + timetables + enrollment, etc)04:37
th1aJust got in.04:37
mhzhi th1a04:37
mhzmee too04:37
th1aThere is a certain overlap.04:38
th1aOne difference internally is that LMS's tend to organize things around courses.04:38
mhz(a couple of young chilean students tweaked claroline to take students enrollment, payments, attendance, etc)04:39
th1aYes, it probably wouldn't be hard.04:40
th1aIt also should be easy in the future to build a LMS on top of SchoolTool, so it cuts both ways.04:42
mhzwell, personally, I am all for text files intead of the spider of Php + Sql stuff04:47
th1aText files?04:48
mhzone of the thing I loved about Moin is that all its DB's were only txt files managed magically by the python engeneering04:48
th1aHave you done anything with the ZODB?04:48
mhzth1a: ohhh, I meant you can just copy/paste04:48
mhzto do your backups04:48
mhzno need to dump stuff04:49
th1aWell, that's nice when you can get away with it.04:49
mhzor know about SQL corrupted DB's, etc04:49
th1aWe've got a lot of data.04:49
mhzth1a: hmmm not yet but I guess I 'll have to start knowing about ZODB04:49
mhzany good tips and suggestions why I'd better know about ZODB ?04:50
th1aWell, it allows you to just focus on writing Python code.  You make Python objects that subclass the Persistent class, and they become persistent.04:51
mhzany 'non-devel' tips?04:52
* mhz is teacher +translator + wiki fan guy04:53
th1aSorry, got distracted.05:17
th1aWell, if you ever do any work on SchoolTool, you'll get to know the ZODB, mhz.05:18
th1aOtherwise, I think you can happily ignore it.05:18
mhzdoes it use CSS ?05:19
th1aSchoolTool uses CSS.05:19
mhzsorry, it looked weired question05:20
th1aYou're in Chile?05:20
th1aLMS use seems to vary regionally.  Claroline is popular down ther?05:20
mhzhmm, not much, just for a small group05:21
mhzMoodle is hitting too hard here05:21
mhzgrowing community05:21
mhzvery fast05:21
th1aOK.  Same here.05:22
th1aSo Moodle integration is a priority more than anything else.05:22
th1aThat is, more than integrating with anything else.05:23
mhzth1a: but I thought you were saying that it was apples and pears05:23
th1aThere is an overlap--data used by both systems.  We'll have to figure out how to share it.05:24
th1aI'm waiting to see what Moodle web services look like--they're supposed to be in 1.6.05:24
mhzokis, now I get it05:26
mhzwell, th1a thx for patience and time05:27
mhzsee you around soon05:27
th1aFor example, when you enroll a student in SchoolTool, you'd like them to be added to Moodle.05:27
th1aOr vice versa.05:27
th1aBye mhz.05:27
th1aNice chatting with you.05:27
mhzth1a: yup, adding people to courses after enrollment is good idea05:27
mhzbasically, keeping logs of students and teachers activities and using them for reports is great05:28
mhzbye th1a05:30
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povbot/svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 5672:15:01
povbot/svn/commits: Implemented new, custom activity overview that allows you to sort activities.15:01
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michael__is there manual on this becuase i cannot find out the login for
michael__sweet thx21:06
michael__nope :-p21:07
srichterare you trying schooltool or schoolbell?21:08
srichterthen that should work21:09
michael__nvm i put it in backwards :-p21:09
srichtertry deleting the Data.fs again and regenerte it21:09
michael__it worked21:09
srichterah, ok21:10
michael__you a dev?21:10
michael__i had a question yesterday and the person could not awnser me fully21:11
michael__though he was quite hlepful21:11
srichteryeah, I am a developer21:12
michael__what are you trying to do with integration for other apps such as moodle adn other edu apps?21:14
srichternothing at this point21:15
michael__ohh someone told me you were trying to integrate21:16
srichterno, Tom told you it is desirable at some point21:18
srichterbut theere are no concrete plans right now21:19
michael__o ok21:19
michael__who's tom?21:19
michael__jsut someoen in another channel21:19
srichterthe guy who answered your questions yesterday (th1a)21:19
michael__o ok21:19
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