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| th1a | srichter: ayt? | 02:21 |
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| fromvega | hello, I'm trying to run CanDo but I'm receiving this message when I run make test | 19:59 |
| fromvega | ImportError: No module named zope.app.locales | 19:59 |
| fromvega | do I need to have Zope installed or what? | 20:00 |
| th1a | fromvega: What package are you using for CanDo? | 20:31 |
| fromvega | what do you mean by "what package" ? If you are talking about python packages I'm sorry because I do not know much about python. | 20:58 |
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| th1a | fromvega: Are you using the .deb package on Debian or Ubuntu? Or a tarball? Or svn checkout? | 21:48 |
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| dwelsh | th1a: you there? | 23:16 |
| th1a | I am here. | 23:16 |
| th1a | What's up? | 23:16 |
| th1a | dwelsh. | 23:17 |
| dwelsh | hey | 23:18 |
| dwelsh | you in Montreal??? | 23:18 |
| dwelsh | th1a: check your e-mail; did you see the five CanDo / SchoolTool issues for 2006? | 23:19 |
| dwelsh | th1a: I just resent it. | 23:20 |
| th1a | Driving upt tomorrow. | 23:20 |
| dwelsh | oh. good. then maybe we could talk about the five issues briefly? | 23:21 |
| th1a | Looking over them... | 23:21 |
| th1a | What does "update links" do? | 23:22 |
| pcardune | makes sure that what you see scoring a section, corresponds to the schooltool roster for that section | 23:23 |
| th1a | What are you updating? Clearing a cache? | 23:24 |
| dwelsh | it basically forces communication between SchoolTool and Cando, but it's NOT pretty! | 23:24 |
| pcardune | as in, creates evaluations for newly added students, and deletes evaluations for student no longer in a section | 23:24 |
| th1a | Ah. | 23:24 |
| pcardune | "update links" is probably bad vocabulary | 23:24 |
| dwelsh | It needs to be invisible and in the background | 23:24 |
| dwelsh | Paul thinks maybe by utlizing "event triggering"??? | 23:25 |
| th1a | OK... deletion is something that will be handled more properly by SchoolTool in the future. | 23:25 |
| th1a | That is, students will never really be deleted, but they will withdraw. | 23:26 |
| pcardune | that is exellent to hear | 23:26 |
| dwelsh | Welsh likes this too | 23:26 |
| th1a | It is pretty involved, so rather than implementing that workflow half-way, it just isn't there at all currently. | 23:27 |
| dwelsh | Right. That's why we're planning ahead for next year. | 23:27 |
| th1a | 1) and 2) should be solved by integrating SchoolTool and CanDo much more completely. | 23:27 |
| dwelsh | Correct. So maybe you and Elkner can talk about that. And Stephan and Paul can talk about that. | 23:28 |
| th1a | Permissions is the scary one overall. Assuming SchoolTool & CanDo are more tightly integrated, I don't see any reason why a teacher would add students or sections. | 23:28 |
| th1a | Regardless, the work will be about coming up with reasonable defaults, not making something super-configurable, particularly through the web. | 23:29 |
| pcardune | i agree with that... I was there could be a "red tape" check box | 23:30 |
| pcardune | I was thinking* | 23:30 |
| dwelsh | There's a neat division between SchoolTool functions (mainly manager functions) and CanDo functions (mainly instructor functions). | 23:31 |
| dwelsh | Ideally, instructors wouldn't mess with creating students, courses or sections. | 23:31 |
| dwelsh | They would just worry about adding existing students to sections, creating competency groups, evaluations, etc. | 23:31 |
| dwelsh | But we do need a streamlines permission screen that allows the manager to control all this. | 23:32 |
| th1a | By next year we'll also have a gradebook, attendance, etc., which will be peers of CanDo. | 23:32 |
| dwelsh | er, streamlined | 23:32 |
| dwelsh | We all need to think permissions through more deeply | 23:32 |
| th1a | Well, I'm thinking we don't need a permission screen. | 23:32 |
| th1a | I mean, | 23:32 |
| th1a | if you bought a commercial system like CanDo, it probably would give you very few options for permissions. | 23:33 |
| dwelsh | But the manager should have control over permissions, no? | 23:33 |
| th1a | I'm saying that generally the manager wouldn't. | 23:33 |
| th1a | You might be able to add people to an "admin" group. | 23:34 |
| th1a | But you wouldn't have the kind of fine-grained opportunity to screw things up we're currently giving you. | 23:34 |
| dwelsh | That's agreed. | 23:34 |
| dwelsh | I want to sit down and really spell out what a manager should have control over | 23:35 |
| dwelsh | and what an instructor should have control over | 23:35 |
| dwelsh | and where the gray area is at. | 23:35 |
| th1a | We're creating some default groups: | 23:35 |
| th1a | students | 23:35 |
| th1a | teachers | 23:35 |
| th1a | school administrator | 23:35 |
| th1a | clerk | 23:35 |
| th1a | site manager | 23:35 |
| dwelsh | I like this approach too. | 23:35 |
| dwelsh | th1a: who's a clerk? | 23:42 |
| th1a | Secretary. | 23:43 |
| dwelsh | How about teaching assisant??? | 23:44 |
| dwelsh | Same idea? | 23:44 |
| th1a | Well, there is an infinite number of possible roles. | 23:45 |
| dwelsh | I've started to create a list of roles and their permissions vis-a-vis CanDo. | 23:46 |
| th1a | Basically, clerks can enroll students, manage attendance, generate reports and have a lot of power over stuff like that, but can't change, say, classroom grades. | 23:46 |
| th1a | Clerks are trusted users. | 23:46 |
| dwelsh | Gotcha. | 23:46 |
| th1a | I would imagine that there will be some differences in the amount of power different schools give clerks. | 23:47 |
| dwelsh | Jeff Elkner and I will talk more about roles and permissions, then hopefull talk some with you th1a. | 23:47 |
| th1a | OK. Super. | 23:47 |
| th1a | Just put the existing screens out of your mind. | 23:48 |
| dwelsh | I am giving myself permission to be at peace with permissions! | 23:48 |
| dwelsh | As for deletions, Paul and I agree that withdrawn is a better way to approach removal of a student than deletion. | 23:49 |
| dwelsh | We're realizing that DELETING can create a lot of problems. | 23:49 |
| dwelsh | We're hoping the SchoolTool guys can guide us a little bit with regards to deletion. | 23:50 |
| dwelsh | th1a: The two tough issues on our list are PERMISSIONS and DELETIONS. | 23:57 |
| dwelsh | The other three are pretty obvious. | 23:58 |
| dwelsh | Is there anything I can do to help SchoolTool as it works with these two issues. | 23:58 |
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