IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2005-11-01

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th1asrichter:  ayt?02:21
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fromvegahello, I'm trying to run CanDo but I'm receiving this message when I run make test19:59
fromvegaImportError: No module named
fromvegado I need to have Zope installed or what?20:00
th1afromvega:  What package are you using for CanDo?20:31
fromvegawhat do you mean by "what package" ? If you are talking about python packages I'm sorry because I do not know much about python.20:58
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th1afromvega:  Are you using the .deb package on Debian or Ubuntu?  Or a tarball?  Or svn checkout?21:48
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dwelshth1a:  you there?23:16
th1aI am here.23:16
th1aWhat's up?23:16
dwelshyou in Montreal???23:18
dwelshth1a:  check your e-mail; did you see the five CanDo / SchoolTool issues for 2006?23:19
dwelshth1a:  I just resent it.23:20
th1aDriving upt tomorrow.23:20
dwelshoh.  good.  then maybe we could talk about the five issues briefly?23:21
th1aLooking over them...23:21
th1aWhat does "update links" do?23:22
pcardunemakes sure that what you see scoring a section, corresponds to the schooltool roster for that section23:23
th1aWhat are you updating?  Clearing a cache?23:24
dwelshit basically forces communication between SchoolTool and Cando, but it's NOT pretty!23:24
pcarduneas in, creates evaluations for newly added students, and deletes evaluations for student no longer in a section23:24
pcardune"update links" is probably bad vocabulary23:24
dwelshIt needs to be invisible and in the background23:24
dwelshPaul thinks maybe by utlizing "event triggering"???23:25
th1aOK... deletion is something that will be handled more properly by SchoolTool in the future.23:25
th1aThat is, students will never really be deleted, but they will withdraw.23:26
pcardunethat is exellent to hear23:26
dwelshWelsh likes this too23:26
th1aIt is pretty involved, so rather than implementing that workflow half-way, it just isn't there at all currently.23:27
dwelshRight.  That's why we're planning ahead for next year.23:27
th1a1) and 2) should be solved by integrating SchoolTool and CanDo much more completely.23:27
dwelshCorrect.  So maybe you and Elkner can talk about that.  And Stephan and Paul can talk about that.23:28
th1aPermissions is the scary one overall.  Assuming SchoolTool & CanDo are more tightly integrated, I don't see any reason why a teacher would add students or sections.23:28
th1aRegardless, the work will be about coming up with reasonable defaults, not making something super-configurable, particularly through the web.23:29
pcardunei agree with that... I was there could be a "red tape" check box23:30
pcarduneI was thinking*23:30
dwelshThere's a neat division between SchoolTool functions (mainly manager functions) and CanDo functions (mainly instructor functions).23:31
dwelshIdeally, instructors wouldn't mess with creating students, courses or sections.23:31
dwelshThey would just worry about adding existing students to sections, creating competency groups, evaluations, etc.23:31
dwelshBut we do need a streamlines permission screen that allows the manager to control all this.23:32
th1aBy next year we'll also have a gradebook, attendance, etc., which will be peers of CanDo.23:32
dwelsher, streamlined23:32
dwelshWe all need to think permissions through more deeply23:32
th1aWell, I'm thinking we don't need a permission screen.23:32
th1aI mean,23:32
th1aif you bought a commercial system like CanDo, it probably would give you very few options for permissions.23:33
dwelshBut the manager should have control over permissions, no?23:33
th1aI'm saying that generally the manager wouldn't.23:33
th1aYou might be able to add people to an "admin" group.23:34
th1aBut you wouldn't have the kind of fine-grained opportunity to screw things up we're currently giving you.23:34
dwelshThat's agreed.23:34
dwelshI want to sit down and really spell out what a manager should have control over23:35
dwelshand what an instructor should have control over23:35
dwelshand where the gray area is at.23:35
th1aWe're creating some default groups:23:35
th1aschool administrator23:35
th1asite manager23:35
dwelshI like this approach too.23:35
dwelshth1a:  who's a clerk?23:42
dwelshHow about teaching assisant???23:44
dwelshSame idea?23:44
th1aWell, there is an infinite number of possible roles.23:45
dwelshI've started to create a list of roles and their permissions vis-a-vis CanDo.23:46
th1aBasically, clerks can enroll students, manage attendance, generate reports and have a lot of power over stuff like that, but can't change, say, classroom grades.23:46
th1aClerks are trusted users.23:46
th1aI would imagine that there will be some differences in the amount of power different schools give clerks.23:47
dwelshJeff Elkner and I will talk more about roles and permissions, then hopefull talk some with you th1a.23:47
th1aOK.  Super.23:47
th1aJust put the existing screens out of your mind.23:48
dwelshI am giving myself permission to be at peace with permissions!23:48
dwelshAs for deletions, Paul and I agree that withdrawn is a better way to approach removal of a student than deletion.23:49
dwelshWe're realizing that DELETING can create a lot of problems.23:49
dwelshWe're hoping the SchoolTool guys can guide us a little bit with regards to deletion.23:50
dwelshth1a:  The two tough issues on our list are PERMISSIONS and DELETIONS.23:57
dwelshThe other three are pretty obvious.23:58
dwelshIs there anything I can do to help SchoolTool as it works with these two issues.23:58

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