IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2005-09-29

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th1ahey bskahan.00:58
bskahanhey tom00:58
bskahanare you comfortable with the amount of content we have now?00:58
th1aI added a bunch today.00:58
th1aWell, I filled out the "About SchoolTool" section.00:59
bskahando you want to change the default after login text?00:59
bskahanto something like "Please feel free to add documentation"00:59
th1aOh... hadn't given that any thought.00:59
bskahanit seems like a good place for user guidelines01:00
th1aBut yes, that's the big thing that we need to have a clear story about.01:00
th1aAnd a clear sense of the workflow.01:00
th1aWhere the general public is involved.01:00
bskahancurrently, only you and I are reviewers, we should probably expand that to everyone with commit access and then some01:01
th1aDo you have a sense of the best approach to this from how it is done on
th1aI agree.01:01
bskahanI didn't go as far as in terms of setting up member workspaces, but used the same model for limiting the content types users can add01:02
bskahanthe big difference is that we have to acutally move things to the right location when we publish them, while does that automagically01:02
bskahando you want to create a group workspace for cando?01:04
th1aWell, they've got a Product space.01:04
bskahanand future related projects01:04
th1aWe need to give them permission to use it first.01:04
th1aI just added something to the review list.01:05
bskahanthe faq01:05
th1aCan you answer that question?01:05
bskahanI'm not sure I unerstand it01:06
bskahanyou just added a question ...01:06
bskahandidn't you?01:06
th1aI'm saying, if I was a regular user, how would I contribute to the FAQ?01:07
bskahanah, add it in your home, submit for review01:07
th1a(I'm asking that question not for myself).01:07
bskahansomeone with review permission moves it to the correct faq section and publishes it01:07
th1aHrm... But if I go to my folder I don't have the option of adding a FAQ.01:08
bskahananytime someone with review permission logs in they'll see the submitted items in the sidebar01:08
th1aI can add an entire documentation section...01:08
bskahanyou don't because you have a special (pre-MemberFolder) user01:08
bskahanif you create a new user you should01:08
th1aCould it be set up so that a regular user could add a faq in the faq section and submit it there?01:10
th1aOopsie.  AttributeError: getVersionsVocab.01:11
th1aWhen I try to add a FAQ to members/ann01:11
bskahanadding as a user?01:12
bskahanto the user's home?01:12
th1aas ann in her home.01:12
bskahanhrm, ok01:14
bskahanlet me see if I can get it to work in the docs section instead01:14
bskahanthat will make reviewers lives easier as well01:14
th1aI've never found that users anywhere understood that they needed to make stuff in their home folder and sumbit it, unfortunately.01:15
bskahantry adding it to the faq section as ann01:15
bskahanthen we'll take the doc types out of the home folder01:17
bskahanleaving just events and articles01:17
th1aWhat are articles?01:18
bskahanregular documents01:19
bskahanthe base article class01:19
bskahanI'm not actually sure we have a use case01:19
th1aHow do I add news?01:19
th1aThat's a low priority.01:20
bskahanadd weblog entry01:20
bskahanactually, the front page news should link to that01:20
bskahansince that's where it comes from01:20
th1aOK.  Where's the RSS feed for that?01:20
bskahan atom.xml rss.xml01:21
th1aCan we get a link to that?01:21
bskahanin the about section we should have a page with all the available feeds01:22
bskahanI'll make it now01:22
th1aI guess I need to send out a mail to the dev list getting people to set up their accounts.01:25
bskahanI think so01:27
bskahanprobably dev list and schooltool list01:27
th1aThat's the overall documentation.  There'll also be a feed for each product.01:30
th1aYou could also add a blurb about Plone/PSC/PHC01:31
th1aThat page could go on the top level, I think.01:31
bskahanit needs more content01:37
th1aI'll work on it.01:37
bskahanhave you tried the search?01:38
th1aSo, overall, I'd like everyone to be able to submit documentation in the proper places.01:41
th1aAnd the CanDo guys should rule the CanDo directory.01:41
bskahanthe documentation should be ready01:42
bskahanI'll add a cando group and give it access to the cando product01:42
th1aThat's for project documentation as well.01:43
th1aI don't think we'll have to add any products for a while.01:43
bskahanshould be good01:44
bskahanhave to get a user in the group to test ;)01:44
th1aOK.  I've got a list of other questions.01:45
bskahanok, there's no separate area for cando documentation01:46
bskahanwhere should that go?01:46
th1aLet me know when you're ready.01:49
bskahango ahead01:50
th1aOK.  The documentation index pages have that crazy chunky layout.01:50
th1aWith missing blocks, which is the real problem.01:51
* bskahan nods01:52
bskahanwe don't need all the blocks, so I'll rearrange them01:52
bskahanproducts has the same layout01:53
th1aSlightly OT.  CanDo really needs a checkins list.  Can you set that up (we can add time to the contract if necessary).01:53
th1aRearranging the blocks is fine.01:54
bskahanI can setup mailman for that01:54
bskahanis it ok if the mailing lists use <listname>@lists.schooltool.org01:56
th1aAs far as I'm concerned.01:56
bskahanok, will ping Gus tonight to get that going now01:56
bskahanare you comfortable with rolling www?01:57
bskahanso I can ask for both at once01:57
th1aWe can't break the other lists.01:57
* bskahan nods01:57
th1aAren't they at
bskahani thought they woere just schooltool.org01:58
th1aYes, they are.01:58
bskahanthat's why I want to use
bskahanso they won't conflict01:58
th1aSorry, out of sequence.01:59
th1aThe old lists are at lists.schooltool.org01:59
bskahanthat works01:59
bskahanI'm sorry, I have to go make dinner, didn't realize how much we had to cover02:00
bskahanwhat would be a good time for you to finish this up?02:00
th1aLater tonight?02:02
bskahannm, aparently we're not going to eat now :\02:03
th1aOK... release pages still have question marks in the title on the browser frame, but that's minor.02:04
th1aI think all the other titles are ok.02:04
bskahanwhich page?02:05
bskahanits easy to fix02:05
th1aLet's see... I need to frame out the documentation sections.  I'm afraid everything on the old site is already too out of date to save, except for my PDF tutorials.02:05
th1aFor example.02:05
th1aShould we go through these quick or should I wait for you?02:06
bskahanlets go through them now02:07
th1aWhere is the front page defined?  In the filesystem?02:07
bskahanno, index_html02:07
bskahanin the ZMI02:07
th1aWeird glitch.  Kupu wants to center-justify everything all of a sudden.02:08
bskahanwhen you save it it isn't centered02:09
bskahanI'll see if I can find a fix02:09
bskahanwas it not doing that before?02:09
th1aBut you see the same behaviour?02:09
bskahan(i've only ever seen it work that way, so I'd forgotten it shouldn't)02:09
th1aI don't think it was happening before.02:09
th1aBut I don't know.02:10
bskahanit always happens for me02:10
bskahanbut I'll find out how to fix it02:10
th1aWhat's the status of getting forums up?02:10
bskahanphpBB is installed, I'm not as fast at skinning it though02:12
bskahanI should be able to get it into a workable state by the beginning of next week02:12
th1aThat should be fine.02:12
bskahanwith plone I know where all the CSS is and does02:13
th1aI don't understand why there isn't a good Plone forum.02:13
th1aAnyhow... how about chroots and demo servers?02:13
bskahanme either02:13
bskahanI've been focused on the website, so haven't made progress on the chroots02:14
th1aI've neglected to send an email about more server memory.  I'll do that tonight.02:14
bskahanonce I figure out the probalem with debootrap it should be quick02:14
bskahanI'll try to get you an update on those tomorrow, just in terms of what the bug is02:14
th1aThat's a higher priority than the forums, btw.02:14
th1aor the CanDo list.02:15
bskahanI'll do that next02:15
bskahanafter fixing the documentation layout02:15
th1aLast thing:  can we get a bit of margin or padding to the left of the items in the left sidebar.02:15
th1aThey're crowding the edge of the page.02:15
th1aWhy don't you send out the dns email tomorrow evening.02:16
bskahanhow's that spacing now?02:17
bskahantoo much?02:17
bskahandid jeff say anything about the pictures of happy CanDo users?02:18
th1aI didn't hassle him about it.  There's time for that later.02:18
* bskahan nods02:19
th1aThat's all I've got, other than a headache.02:23
bskahanok, I'll fix the docs page and roll www02:24
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bskahanmaking dinner ended up consisting of a phone call02:50
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povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5112:04:24
povbot`/svn/commits: * Give the script some options.  * Add some rather random documentation.  * fail if one release fails.  * make subversion checkouts more robust.  * Drop XXX that products should be moved to a temporary directory before being04:24
povbot`/svn/commits: published.04:24
povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5113:04:32
povbot`/svn/commits: Fix the mangling of some options.04:32
povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5114:04:43
povbot`/svn/commits: Fix more mangling and make building releases more robust.04:43
povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5115:04:56
povbot`/svn/commits: tweak configuration.04:56
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ignasmgedmin, you mentioned some grid of permissions you used in one of the functional/unit tests13:15
mgedminignas, the RESTive tests, yes13:16
mgedminit was a long time ago, before the Zope 3 switch13:16
mgedminI don't know if those tests survived13:16
mgedminbskahan, the new schooltool website is very nice!13:17
ignasmgedmin, they did not ..13:26
mgedminignas, do you want to see them?13:26
bskahanmgedmin: thanks!13:52
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srichterwhere is the new site?14:09
srichtergot it14:10
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* jinty notes that the zope test runner is very noisy on stderr even when there is no error.14:30
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SteveAth1a: hello15:04
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ignaswow ?15:17
ignasmore like wtf!15:17
bskahanwow, sensory overload15:18
bskahanthere are some very nice features though15:18
bskahandrag and drop meeting creation15:18
bskahandrag a contact from the left onto the calendar to schedule a meeting with that person15:19
bskahanwe need a good way to let users create events in different calendars, that might be a good trick15:19
bskahandrag the calendar from your overlay portlet onto the calendar view to create the event in that calendar15:20
bskahandrag and drop time change within the calendar is nice as well15:20
bskahan interesting15:27
povbot`/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5116:16:03
povbot`/svn/commits: Allow authenticated users to see the application calendar.16:03
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Welshcurious if jinty is online16:05
Welshthere's my answer16:05
Welshany update on finishing off the packaging discussed two days ago?16:05
jintyFrom my side I am waiting for word from paul16:06
Welshsame here16:06
Welshonce he's done from his end, how much work do you estimate you'll have?16:06
jintyhopefully 20 minutes16:06
Welshthat's good news16:06
WelshWill I be able to run my update routine after you're done?16:07
jintyI spent a while setting it up the last time...16:07
jintyyou mean apt-get update; apt-get upgrade?16:07
Welshright, including backing-up my data, too.16:08
jintythen yes16:08
Welshmay need a little help with the commands16:08
th1aWelsh:  How'd the presentation go?16:08
jintyif people are backing up data routinely on upgrade, that might be an interesting feature for the package post-installation scripts16:09
WelshGood thought16:09
WelshPresentation was even better than hoped-for, and I had hi hopes.16:09
WelshI'll forward the e-mail we got yesterday in response.16:10
WelshThere were 2 presentations:  1) for administrators; 2) for lead teachers16:10
Welshabout 20 in each group16:10
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Welshadministrator group was quite hi-level16:10
WelshTop VA beach curriculum, tech and career-tech folks.16:11
WelshFormer superintendent for the whole state came for it.16:11
WelshCanDo performed flawlessly.16:11
WelshUpshot is that their lead teachers are committed to using CanDo (about 7 of them).16:12
WelshAs will a core group of Career Center lead teachers.16:12
WelshSo we're hungry for our final bug fixes, so I can cut these two groups loose.16:12
WelshAnd then, as I said, the word spreads very fast when you have lead teachers involved.16:13
WelshRequests for demos are coming in from other counties and conferences.16:13
WelshCongrats and great job to everyone!16:14
Welshjinty:  Paul is pretty diligent; we'll certainly hear something by Saturday, if not sooner.16:14
th1aWelsh:  Excellent.16:15
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Welshgreat job to all who worked on new schooltool website; impressive!16:19
jintyWelsh: sure, no worries16:20
WelshHave a good day one and all; will check in once we hear from Paul.16:21
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th1aHi erchache.16:24
th1amgedmin, srichter, etc.:  I just dropped the first piece of content into our new "Coding Standards" manual, quoting a weblog post today from Paul Everitt:
th1aLet me know if you approve.17:06
th1aAnd of course, I'm inviting contributions.17:06
mgedminth1a, I approve17:08
mgedmin", and Script (Python) objects should never, or very rarely, be used at all"17:08
mgedmindoes not apply17:08
mgedminZope 3 has no "Script (Python) objects"17:09
mgedminnote that currently we do not follow these guidelines17:09
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mgedmine.g. our page templates often access content objects directly17:09
th1aBy "we" do you mean POV?17:09
mgedminI mean that if you look at existing schooltool page templates, you'll find things like that17:10
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mgedmin is broken?17:51
mgedminI see no images there17:51
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* mgedmin sees a functional test failure and goes to look at the buildbot page17:53
ignasth1a, i have just found a way a simple user can make ST unusable issue409 (just thought you should know)17:53
th1aignas:  Do you have thoughts about a proper fix?17:55
th1abskahan:  Oh yeah, what's the deal with the screenshots thumbnails?17:56
ignasalga suggested some kind of a fix - replacing ACL view for users with a simplified one ... like - a view that only has a list of users with  checkboxes "Allow to see my calendar" ...17:57
ignasbut that is only a visual change17:57
ignaswe should remove the rights for user to edit his own permissions17:57
ignasand only allow him to edit permissions of his calendar17:57
th1aThat's a thought.17:58
ignaswhich would still enable him to disallow manager access to his calendar though :/17:58
mgedminthat sounds like a workaround instead of a fix17:58
ignasi don't know what would be a 100% working fix ...17:58
mgedminlists of objects shouldn't become inaccessible when a single object in a list is not accessible17:58
ignaswe do not have a real superuser ...17:58
mgedminthat's the real bug17:58
ignasthat's a bug too, but this one has an issue for it already IIRC17:59
mgedminalso, perhaps we should disallow anyone from setting/removing grants for the zope.Manager role17:59
mgedminbut we do that already, don't we?17:59
* mgedmin goes to look at the bug report17:59
mgedminI think that we should remove the 'manager' row from the ACL view18:01
mgedminmanager can do anything18:01
mgedminnobody should be able to forbid manager from doing things18:01
mgedmin... right?18:01
mgedminmanager is the one user that can come back when everything's broken and fix it18:01
mgedmintake a look at issue 17418:07
mgedminit was marked as resolved, but it looks like the same bug to me18:07
mgedminwhen you take away the permission to look at one object, the index page becomes inaccessable18:07
mgedminin my view 405 and 174 are different bugs:18:08
mgedmin405 -- manager should always have permissions to do anything18:08
mgedmin174 -- if users have permissions to look at a page that mentions objects the user doesn't have permissions to see, the user should be able to see the page anyway18:09
povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5117:18:14
povbot`/svn/commits: Bugfix in doctest name matching: move DocFileCase_classes setup before we start the matching so that we can identify DocFileCases and get their proper names.18:14
povbot`/svn/commits: This fixes, for example, the following command18:14
povbot`/svn/commits: ./ -pvC1 -f . schooltool/app/browser/ftests/cal.txt18:14
mgedminright, 40918:14
* mgedmin fixed a bug in the test runner, ran the cal.txt ftest in isolation, and got a failure again18:14
mgedminlet's see if buildbot sees it18:15
mgedminmaybe something in Zope 3 trunk changed?18:15
mgedminschooltool/app/browser/ftests/cal.txt line 51518:16
mgedminit looks like <input type="hidden" name="date" value="2005-02-04" /> is not present in the output18:16
erchachewell i send a fax to get a new dns for my schoolbell server18:17
erchachetomorrow perhaps has up it18:17
povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5118:18:24
povbot`/svn/commits: Set some global defaults first, and handle relative target directories.18:24
mgedminnope, buildbot sees no error18:26
povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5119:18:29
povbot`/svn/commits: Add a minimalistic configuration for building Zope3 tarballs in case srichter wants to try it out.18:29
povbot`/svn/commits: (Tests disabled for now because they are failing with python2.3!)18:29
povbot`/svn/commits: $ svn co $ cd releases $ ./ -l INFO Zope3-trunk SVN18:29
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mgedminjinty, trunk nowadays _requires_ python 2.418:35
jintymgedmin: I meant zope3 tests, make test_inplace fails because the makefile sets PYTHON=python2.318:37
jintyin Zope318:37
mgedminjinty, I think Zope 3 trunk nowadays also requires python 2.418:40
jintyah, then it's a bug in the Zope3 Makefile18:41
jintymgedmin: is the zope3 test runner supposed to produce so much output on stderr?18:42
mgedminwhat does it say?18:42
* jinty looks in his inbox18:43
mgedmineveryone, if you run18:43
mgedmin  ./ -pvC1 -f -s src/schooltool/app/browser/ftests/ . schooltool/app/browser/ftests/cal.txt18:43
mgedminon schooltool trunk18:43
mgedmindoes the test pass or fail?18:43
mgedminit fails for me, but apparently passes on buildbot18:44
* mgedmin discovers that his sandbox is not clean18:45
* mgedmin discovers that the only changes are a few new # XXX comments18:45
* mgedmin discovers that the test passes now18:45
mgedminaargh, I'm STUPID!18:46
jintymgedmin: i'll forward you the mail from the cronjob, with the output18:46
mgedminthe ftest file was changed in my sandbox18:46
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* jinty reads #zope3-dev and sees that fdrake has the Zope3 Makefile python2.3 bug in hand18:51
* jinty is glad he is not the only one that searches for hours to find silly mistakes18:54
SteveAth1a: keep a pot file for the glossary, perhaps?19:12
povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5120:19:14
povbot`/svn/commits: Only update Zope3/testbrowser/zpkgtools checkouts when they're not there, or when explicitly asked by 'make update'.  Otherwise 'make run'/'make test'/ 'make ftest' become painfully slow.19:14
th1aSteveA: I'd like to just keep the glossary on the web site.19:17
SteveAkeeping it in a .pot file means you can get it translated in rosetta, of course19:18
th1aWell, that's true...19:19
th1aIt also make is more out of the way for the average user.19:20
ignas:D if a title of an event is 17 characters - it is shortened to 15 characters + 3 dots19:25
ignasit would not be as funny if 15+3 would not be 1819:25
jintybskahan: could you install python-reportlab and msttcorefonts on the server? (so that we can properly test schooltool there)19:47
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povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5121:19:57
povbot`/svn/commits: Dont enable verbose+progress reporting mode when testing tarballs.19:57
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bskahanjinty, will do20:11
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bskahanjinty, done20:16
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jintybskahan: thanks20:29
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povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5122:20:47
povbot`/svn/commits: Removed massive code duplication in functional test infrastructure:20:47
povbot`/svn/commits: - There's a new package, schooltool.testing.functional.20:47
povbot`/svn/commits: - Many identical copies of find_ftesting_zcml were merged and moved into20:47
povbot`/svn/commits: the new package.20:47
povbot`/svn/commits: - Many identical copies of functional test setup were extracted from all the20:47
povbot`/svn/commits: test_suite functions, merged and moved into a new load_ftesting_zcml function in the new package.20:47
povbot`/svn/commits: - Some benchmarks need a new dead chicken to appease the circular import bug20:47
povbot`/svn/commits: (issue 390).20:48
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povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5123:20:55
povbot`/svn/commits: Unused imports.20:55
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povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5124:21:37
povbot`/svn/commits: Reduced code duplication in functional test infrastructure:21:37
povbot`/svn/commits: - New function collect_ftests in schooltool.testing.functional finds all21:37
povbot`/svn/commits: *.txt files and loads them as FunctionalDocFileSuites.21:37
povbot`/svn/commits: - All test_suite() functions in functional test modules now use the new21:37
povbot`/svn/commits: function.21:37
mgedminI have a solution for (ftest environment)22:04
mgedminschooltool/levels/browser/README.txt breaks horribly when a manager user appears22:53
mgedminaargh, schooltool/devmode/devmode.txt doesn't want to work either23:08
mgedminyay, devmode.txt is conquered23:19
povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5125:23:20
povbot`/svn/commits: Revive the hacky script.23:20
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povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5126:23:24
povbot`/svn/commits: Fix thinko.23:24
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