IRC log of #schooltool for Sunday, 2005-09-25

*** erchache has joined #schooltool09:58
*** erchache has quit IRC10:16
*** jinty has joined #schooltool13:27
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool13:36
*** erchache has joined #schooltool14:54
erchacheth1a: eyyyyy see that14:59
erchacheFile "/Users/hoffman/Desktop/RELEASE/schoolbell-1.2.1/Zope3/src/zope/app/locales/", line 360, in zcml_strings14:59
erchachemac packages are getting reference to your local dir system!14:59
mgedminerchache, the .pyc files contain the full path of the .py file on the system where they were compiled15:00
mgedminif this bothers you, find -name '*.pyc' | xargs rm15:00
mgedminPython will recompile .pyc files automatically for you15:00
mgedminthose incorrect paths only ever show up in tracebacks15:01
erchachei dont read last rm!15:01
erchacheZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/schoolbell-1_2_1-mac/src/schoolbell/app/configure.zcml", line 323.2-323.2915:02
erchache    ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/schoolbell-1_2_1-mac/src/schoolbell/app/rest/configure.zcml", line 5.215:02
erchache    ConfigurationError: ('Invalid value for', 'class', "Couldn't import, No module named libxml2")15:02
erchachemake: *** [build] Error 115:02
erchachei dont have bindings of libxml215:02
*** mgedmin has quit IRC15:12
*** erchache has quit IRC15:32
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool15:44
jelknerjinty: Good morning, Brian!15:50
jelkneri have to leave by 10 am for another meeting, so i was hoping to get started a few minutes early15:50
jintyhere now15:54
jelknerjinty: great15:54
jintyjelkner, Good mornong15:55
jelknergood morning!15:55
jintyhow did it go yesterday?15:55
jelknervery encouraging15:55
jelkner*a lot* of people15:55
jelkneri'm going to propose that we put off training me on packaging until things stablize15:56
jelknerand instead figure out how to get cando ready by tomorrow15:56
jelknerunfortunately we don't have paul here15:56
jelknerso we will need to figure out things without him15:57
jintyyeah, the big problem is to know what paul changed15:57
jelknerpaul made some crucial changes regarding performance15:57
jintyif I know that, I can do the rest easily15:57
jintyperhaps looking at the logs of subversion...15:58
jelknerhow will you proceed?15:58
jelknerof the choices you mentioned in the email, i mean?15:58
jintyI don't have paul's help or a lot of time, so I will choose option number 3...15:59
jintyi.e. forget about svn and do everything directly on the package15:59
jelknerwill you be able to get paul's changes incorportated into it?15:59
jintyprobably, but it is definately going to be a hack16:00
jelknerwell, we need two plans: a long term plan and a short term plan16:01
jelknerthe short term plan needs to be ready tomorrow!16:01
jelknerdave goes to virginia beach with the demo on tuesday16:02
jintyactually, perhaps importing the package into a branch and working on it there is the best option, that way there is a record of what I did.16:02
jelknerhow much time do you think you need?16:03
jintydepends on how much of a mess it is to get paul's changes across.16:04
jintyperhaps 3 hours16:04
jelknerand will the result permit us to 'apt-get update' to aply the changes?16:04
jelkneri have a meeting with aziz from the cic at 1116:05
jintybut, I would request heavy testing tomorrow...16:05
jelknerdave will give it *heavy* testing.16:05
jelknerthat i can assure you16:05
jelkneraziz and i are going to discuss the cando budget16:05
jelknerthe plan is for cic to fund it through successful deployment in arlington and virgina beach16:06
jelknerthen we are going to seek additional funding16:06
jelknergiven the interest in it from around virginia, i think we can make that happen16:06
jelknerdave will help16:07
jintysounds like a good idea, but it obviously needs to work when first deployed16:07
jelknerexactly, these first deployments are crucial16:07
jelknerso, do you need anything from me now to move forward?16:08
jintywhat is the strategy with the cando trunk?16:09
jintyare you going to move forward with the schooltool trunk, or stick to the 0.11.x release branch16:09
jelknerlet me see if i can summarize the arguments16:09
jelknersticking with 0.11.x would make cando much easier to package16:10
jelknerbut may miss some important improvements16:10
jelkneris that about it?16:10
jintyit's even worse, cando packaging depends on schooltool packaging16:11
jintythere are no schooltool packages for the current trunk, and won't be for months16:11
jelknerso we need to stick to 0.11.x16:11
jintyIn my opinion, yes16:11
jelknerwe had actually decided awhile back to do that16:12
* jinty notes that programmers always like the bleeding edge16:12
* jelkner notes that he also suffers from versionitis, making matters worse16:12
jintyok, then with reference to the long term plan,16:13
jelknerbefore that16:13
jelknerlet's finish with the short term plan16:13
jelknerit may be the case that paul missunderstood what to do after we moved to svn16:13
jelknerhe probably just did a checkout and started working on that16:14
jelknerdoes that sound reasonable?16:14
jelknerand if we are going to continue using the 0.11.x code16:14
jelknerhow can paul check-in his changes?16:14
jintywe could make a branch, import the current package into that.16:15
jintythen when paul wants to put a feature into the packages, he back ports the patch with svn merge16:15
jelknerok, a bit on the short term vs. long term16:16
jelknercando is feature complete for this release16:16
jelknerbut there will be lots of bug fixes and performance improvements16:17
jelknerto make it usable16:17
jelknerover time those should be less and less frequent16:17
jelknerand more time can be spent on the next release16:17
jelknerdoes that sound reasonable?16:18
jelkneris it possible, btw, for me to run the development release and update using svn?16:18
jintyschooltool or cando?16:19
jelknerbut built on the new schooltool16:19
jelknerso both16:19
jelknerthe reason i'm asking is that while dave is busy training and promoting version 116:19
jelkneri'll become the new main customer for next year's version (2006)16:20
jelknerbut i would like to try it out with my classes this year16:20
jelknerunless that is not practicle16:20
jelknerin which case i'll just stick to 2005 myself16:20
jelknerbut that will slow down development of 200616:21
jintywhat you are saying sounds like you don't want to stick to the old schooltool in the trunk16:21
jelkneri'm not clear on what "the trunk" implies.16:21
jintyit sounds like you want trunk to move forward with the current schooltool, and a branch for the current release16:21
jelkneris that doable?16:22
jintytrunk is the place where the main development effort happens16:22
jintydoable, it is exactly what we do with schooltool16:22
jelknerthen by all means, let's do it with cando ;-)16:22
jintybut it makes life a bit of a pain because patches have to be ported from the trunk to the branches.16:23
jelkneras long as that does not stop us from being ready in the short term for 200516:23
jelkneras you can tell from this conversation, my ignorance is profound16:24
jintyI understand that the short term is the highest priority now16:24
jintyhow much do you know about branching of software projects?16:25
jelknervery little16:25
jelkneri've watched the roadmaps of things like mozilla and openoffice16:25
jelknerand read a bit about what goes into the discussions of when to do what16:25
jelknerbut i have no first hand experience until now16:26
jelknerso it's all rather abstract to me16:26
jelknerthis is a real learning experience for me16:26
jintyok, it's all about providing stability and relatively fex bugfixes without getting in the way of future development16:27
jelkneri'm listening...16:27
jintywhat users want is software that works, what developers want is creative distruction16:28
jintyso, normally, there is a main development effort, i.e. the trunk, where the developers play and break as much as possible16:28
jintythen, come release time, the release manager starts to complain about all the broken things and gets the developers to fix most of them without breaking new stuff16:29
jintywhen things are relatively non-broken, a release branch is made of the trunk16:30
jintyi.e. the development is split into two separate paths16:30
jelknerand then the trunk can get broken again16:30
jelknerand the branch lives a releatively stable existance until it dies off after a new branch makes it obsolete?16:31
jintyindeed, and the developers can be happy because they creatively destroying16:31
jelknerso we need a branch now16:31
jelknerand paul needs to know how to work on the branch16:32
jelknerand we need to be able to produce .debs from it16:32
jelknerhow do we accomplish that as quickly as possible?16:32
jintyI think the best would be to create the branch in the way I explained in the mail16:33
jelkner    1 make a diff between the original schooltool 0.11.1 tarball and the16:34
jelkner      cando 0.11.1 tarball paul sent.16:34
jelkner    2 import the original schooltool 0.11.2 tarball into svn as a16:34
jelkner      branch.16:34
jelkner    3 apply the diff from 1.16:34
jelkner    4 apply the diff.gz from the cando package.16:34
jelkner    5 ask paul to back port all the changes he wants released to the16:34
jelkner      branch16:34
jelkner    6 build new packages from the branch.16:34
jinty5 is the problem, because of the short time available16:35
jintySo unless we can get hold of paul, I could give it a try16:36
jelknerit would be better for you to do it16:36
jelknerpaul only has about 7 hours a week he can work on cando16:36
jelknerhe is a full time students16:36
jelknerand i don't want to be responsible for him failing his first semester ;-)16:37
jelkneri will send an email to him asking him to be available today (perhaps on this channel?)16:38
jelknerin case there are quick things he could answer that would save you a lot of time16:38
jelknerdoes that sound good?16:38
jintyI will be around here16:38
jintysounds excellent16:39
jelknerok, then if there isn't anything else, i'll sign off now and get to work on that16:39
jintyquick version numbers: start with the 2005 naming scheme now?16:39
jelknerand when i get back from meeting with aziz i'll have a clearer picture of our current cando budget16:39
jelkner2005 is the branch16:39
jelkner2006 will be the new trunk16:39
jintythat's all from me then...16:40
jelknertalk to you later...16:40
*** jelkner has quit IRC16:40
*** tvon has quit IRC18:51
*** tiredbones has joined #schooltool19:08
*** tvon has joined #schooltool20:43
*** ignas has joined #schooltool21:13
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool21:16
jelknerthla: tom, are you here?21:17
jelknerjinty: brian, are you here?21:18
*** jelkner has quit IRC21:18
*** tvon has quit IRC21:18
*** srichter has quit IRC21:18
*** Aiste has quit IRC21:18
*** hoffman|edubu has quit IRC21:18
*** ignas has quit IRC21:18
*** jinty has quit IRC21:18
*** th1a has quit IRC21:18
*** Ricey has quit IRC21:18
*** auxesis has quit IRC21:18
*** maharaja has quit IRC21:18
*** SteveA has quit IRC21:18
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool21:22
*** ignas has joined #schooltool21:22
*** tvon has joined #schooltool21:22
*** jinty has joined #schooltool21:22
*** th1a has joined #schooltool21:22
*** srichter has joined #schooltool21:22
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool21:22
*** hoffman|edubu has joined #schooltool21:22
*** maharaja has joined #schooltool21:22
*** Ricey has joined #schooltool21:22
*** auxesis has joined #schooltool21:22
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool21:22
*** jelkner has quit IRC21:32
*** flint has quit IRC22:22

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!