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| erchache | hi | 09:58 |
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| erchache | hi | 14:55 |
| erchache | th1a: eyyyyy see that | 14:59 |
| erchache | File "/Users/hoffman/Desktop/RELEASE/schoolbell-1.2.1/Zope3/src/zope/app/locales/extract.py", line 360, in zcml_strings | 14:59 |
| erchache | mac packages are getting reference to your local dir system! | 14:59 |
| mgedmin | erchache, the .pyc files contain the full path of the .py file on the system where they were compiled | 15:00 |
| erchache | uhmmm | 15:00 |
| mgedmin | if this bothers you, find -name '*.pyc' | xargs rm | 15:00 |
| mgedmin | Python will recompile .pyc files automatically for you | 15:00 |
| erchache | fuck | 15:01 |
| mgedmin | those incorrect paths only ever show up in tracebacks | 15:01 |
| erchache | i dont read last rm! | 15:01 |
| erchache | arrrgggh | 15:01 |
| erchache | ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/schoolbell-1_2_1-mac/src/schoolbell/app/configure.zcml", line 323.2-323.29 | 15:02 |
| erchache | ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/schoolbell-1_2_1-mac/src/schoolbell/app/rest/configure.zcml", line 5.2 | 15:02 |
| erchache | ConfigurationError: ('Invalid value for', 'class', "Couldn't import schoolbell.app.rest.app, No module named libxml2") | 15:02 |
| erchache | make: *** [build] Error 1 | 15:02 |
| erchache | i dont have bindings of libxml2 | 15:02 |
| erchache | :-( | 15:02 |
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| jelkner | jinty: Good morning, Brian! | 15:50 |
| jelkner | i have to leave by 10 am for another meeting, so i was hoping to get started a few minutes early | 15:50 |
| jinty | here now | 15:54 |
| jelkner | jinty: great | 15:54 |
| jinty | jelkner, Good mornong | 15:55 |
| jelkner | good morning! | 15:55 |
| jinty | how did it go yesterday? | 15:55 |
| jelkner | very encouraging | 15:55 |
| jelkner | *a lot* of people | 15:55 |
| jelkner | i'm going to propose that we put off training me on packaging until things stablize | 15:56 |
| jelkner | and instead figure out how to get cando ready by tomorrow | 15:56 |
| jelkner | unfortunately we don't have paul here | 15:56 |
| jelkner | so we will need to figure out things without him | 15:57 |
| jinty | yeah, the big problem is to know what paul changed | 15:57 |
| jelkner | paul made some crucial changes regarding performance | 15:57 |
| jinty | if I know that, I can do the rest easily | 15:57 |
| jinty | perhaps looking at the logs of subversion... | 15:58 |
| jelkner | how will you proceed? | 15:58 |
| jelkner | of the choices you mentioned in the email, i mean? | 15:58 |
| jinty | I don't have paul's help or a lot of time, so I will choose option number 3... | 15:59 |
| jinty | i.e. forget about svn and do everything directly on the package | 15:59 |
| jelkner | will you be able to get paul's changes incorportated into it? | 15:59 |
| jinty | probably, but it is definately going to be a hack | 16:00 |
| jelkner | well, we need two plans: a long term plan and a short term plan | 16:01 |
| jelkner | the short term plan needs to be ready tomorrow! | 16:01 |
| jelkner | dave goes to virginia beach with the demo on tuesday | 16:02 |
| jinty | actually, perhaps importing the package into a branch and working on it there is the best option, that way there is a record of what I did. | 16:02 |
| jelkner | how much time do you think you need? | 16:03 |
| jinty | depends on how much of a mess it is to get paul's changes across. | 16:04 |
| jinty | perhaps 3 hours | 16:04 |
| jelkner | and will the result permit us to 'apt-get update' to aply the changes? | 16:04 |
| jinty | yes | 16:04 |
| jelkner | cool | 16:04 |
| jelkner | i have a meeting with aziz from the cic at 11 | 16:05 |
| jinty | but, I would request heavy testing tomorrow... | 16:05 |
| jelkner | dave will give it *heavy* testing. | 16:05 |
| jelkner | that i can assure you | 16:05 |
| jinty | ;) | 16:05 |
| jelkner | aziz and i are going to discuss the cando budget | 16:05 |
| jelkner | the plan is for cic to fund it through successful deployment in arlington and virgina beach | 16:06 |
| jelkner | then we are going to seek additional funding | 16:06 |
| jelkner | given the interest in it from around virginia, i think we can make that happen | 16:06 |
| jelkner | dave will help | 16:07 |
| jinty | sounds like a good idea, but it obviously needs to work when first deployed | 16:07 |
| jelkner | exactly, these first deployments are crucial | 16:07 |
| jelkner | so, do you need anything from me now to move forward? | 16:08 |
| jinty | yes | 16:08 |
| jelkner | shoot | 16:08 |
| jinty | what is the strategy with the cando trunk? | 16:09 |
| jinty | are you going to move forward with the schooltool trunk, or stick to the 0.11.x release branch | 16:09 |
| jelkner | let me see if i can summarize the arguments | 16:09 |
| jelkner | sticking with 0.11.x would make cando much easier to package | 16:10 |
| jelkner | but may miss some important improvements | 16:10 |
| jelkner | is that about it? | 16:10 |
| jinty | it's even worse, cando packaging depends on schooltool packaging | 16:11 |
| jinty | there are no schooltool packages for the current trunk, and won't be for months | 16:11 |
| jelkner | so we need to stick to 0.11.x | 16:11 |
| jelkner | yes? | 16:11 |
| jinty | In my opinion, yes | 16:11 |
| jelkner | we had actually decided awhile back to do that | 16:12 |
| * jinty notes that programmers always like the bleeding edge | 16:12 | |
| * jelkner notes that he also suffers from versionitis, making matters worse | 16:12 | |
| jinty | ok, then with reference to the long term plan, | 16:13 |
| jelkner | before that | 16:13 |
| jelkner | let's finish with the short term plan | 16:13 |
| jelkner | it may be the case that paul missunderstood what to do after we moved to svn | 16:13 |
| jelkner | he probably just did a checkout and started working on that | 16:14 |
| jelkner | does that sound reasonable? | 16:14 |
| jelkner | and if we are going to continue using the 0.11.x code | 16:14 |
| jelkner | how can paul check-in his changes? | 16:14 |
| jinty | we could make a branch, import the current package into that. | 16:15 |
| jinty | then when paul wants to put a feature into the packages, he back ports the patch with svn merge | 16:15 |
| jelkner | ok, a bit on the short term vs. long term | 16:16 |
| jelkner | cando is feature complete for this release | 16:16 |
| jelkner | but there will be lots of bug fixes and performance improvements | 16:17 |
| jelkner | to make it usable | 16:17 |
| jelkner | over time those should be less and less frequent | 16:17 |
| jelkner | and more time can be spent on the next release | 16:17 |
| jelkner | does that sound reasonable? | 16:18 |
| jinty | yes | 16:18 |
| jelkner | is it possible, btw, for me to run the development release and update using svn? | 16:18 |
| jinty | schooltool or cando? | 16:19 |
| jelkner | cando | 16:19 |
| jelkner | but built on the new schooltool | 16:19 |
| jelkner | so both | 16:19 |
| jelkner | the reason i'm asking is that while dave is busy training and promoting version 1 | 16:19 |
| jelkner | (2005) | 16:19 |
| jelkner | i'll become the new main customer for next year's version (2006) | 16:20 |
| jelkner | but i would like to try it out with my classes this year | 16:20 |
| jelkner | unless that is not practicle | 16:20 |
| jelkner | in which case i'll just stick to 2005 myself | 16:20 |
| jelkner | but that will slow down development of 2006 | 16:21 |
| jinty | what you are saying sounds like you don't want to stick to the old schooltool in the trunk | 16:21 |
| jelkner | i'm not clear on what "the trunk" implies. | 16:21 |
| jinty | it sounds like you want trunk to move forward with the current schooltool, and a branch for the current release | 16:21 |
| jelkner | is that doable? | 16:22 |
| jinty | trunk is the place where the main development effort happens | 16:22 |
| jinty | doable, it is exactly what we do with schooltool | 16:22 |
| jelkner | then by all means, let's do it with cando ;-) | 16:22 |
| jinty | but it makes life a bit of a pain because patches have to be ported from the trunk to the branches. | 16:23 |
| jelkner | as long as that does not stop us from being ready in the short term for 2005 | 16:23 |
| jelkner | as you can tell from this conversation, my ignorance is profound | 16:24 |
| jinty | I understand that the short term is the highest priority now | 16:24 |
| jinty | how much do you know about branching of software projects? | 16:25 |
| jelkner | very little | 16:25 |
| jelkner | i've watched the roadmaps of things like mozilla and openoffice | 16:25 |
| jelkner | and read a bit about what goes into the discussions of when to do what | 16:25 |
| jelkner | but i have no first hand experience until now | 16:26 |
| jelkner | so it's all rather abstract to me | 16:26 |
| jelkner | this is a real learning experience for me | 16:26 |
| jinty | ok, it's all about providing stability and relatively fex bugfixes without getting in the way of future development | 16:27 |
| jinty | s/fex/few/ | 16:27 |
| jelkner | i'm listening... | 16:27 |
| jinty | what users want is software that works, what developers want is creative distruction | 16:28 |
| jinty | so, normally, there is a main development effort, i.e. the trunk, where the developers play and break as much as possible | 16:28 |
| jinty | then, come release time, the release manager starts to complain about all the broken things and gets the developers to fix most of them without breaking new stuff | 16:29 |
| jinty | when things are relatively non-broken, a release branch is made of the trunk | 16:30 |
| jinty | i.e. the development is split into two separate paths | 16:30 |
| jelkner | and then the trunk can get broken again | 16:30 |
| jelkner | and the branch lives a releatively stable existance until it dies off after a new branch makes it obsolete? | 16:31 |
| jinty | indeed, and the developers can be happy because they creatively destroying | 16:31 |
| jinty | exactly | 16:31 |
| jelkner | cool | 16:31 |
| jelkner | so we need a branch now | 16:31 |
| jelkner | and paul needs to know how to work on the branch | 16:32 |
| jelkner | and we need to be able to produce .debs from it | 16:32 |
| jinty | exactly | 16:32 |
| jelkner | how do we accomplish that as quickly as possible? | 16:32 |
| jinty | I think the best would be to create the branch in the way I explained in the mail | 16:33 |
| jelkner | 1 make a diff between the original schooltool 0.11.1 tarball and the | 16:34 |
| jelkner | cando 0.11.1 tarball paul sent. | 16:34 |
| jelkner | 2 import the original schooltool 0.11.2 tarball into svn as a | 16:34 |
| jelkner | branch. | 16:34 |
| jelkner | 3 apply the diff from 1. | 16:34 |
| jelkner | 4 apply the diff.gz from the cando package. | 16:34 |
| jelkner | 5 ask paul to back port all the changes he wants released to the | 16:34 |
| jelkner | branch | 16:34 |
| jelkner | 6 build new packages from the branch. | 16:34 |
| jinty | 5 is the problem, because of the short time available | 16:35 |
| jinty | So unless we can get hold of paul, I could give it a try | 16:36 |
| jelkner | it would be better for you to do it | 16:36 |
| jelkner | paul only has about 7 hours a week he can work on cando | 16:36 |
| jelkner | he is a full time students | 16:36 |
| jelkner | and i don't want to be responsible for him failing his first semester ;-) | 16:37 |
| jinty | heh | 16:37 |
| jelkner | i will send an email to him asking him to be available today (perhaps on this channel?) | 16:38 |
| jelkner | in case there are quick things he could answer that would save you a lot of time | 16:38 |
| jelkner | does that sound good? | 16:38 |
| jinty | I will be around here | 16:38 |
| jinty | yes | 16:38 |
| jinty | sounds excellent | 16:39 |
| jelkner | ok, then if there isn't anything else, i'll sign off now and get to work on that | 16:39 |
| jinty | quick version numbers: start with the 2005 naming scheme now? | 16:39 |
| jelkner | and when i get back from meeting with aziz i'll have a clearer picture of our current cando budget | 16:39 |
| jelkner | yes | 16:39 |
| jelkner | 2005 is the branch | 16:39 |
| jelkner | 2006 will be the new trunk | 16:39 |
| jinty | that's all from me then... | 16:40 |
| jelkner | thanks! | 16:40 |
| jelkner | talk to you later... | 16:40 |
| jinty | later... | 16:40 |
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| jelkner | thla: tom, are you here? | 21:17 |
| jelkner | jinty: brian, are you here? | 21:18 |
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