IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2005-07-28

*** matiasV has quit IRC00:03
*** FarcePest has quit IRC00:08
th1asrichter:  Can I specify that in the ZMI an object should use the content view by default rather than the edit view?00:41
srichteryeah, there is a defaultView directive00:42
th1aSo I should specify @@contents.html?00:43
th1aOr perhaps without the @@.00:44
th1asrichter:  What time to you expect to arrive tomorrow?00:44
srichterI think without00:44
*** gintas has joined #schooltool00:45
srichterwe leaqve here about 7:30, so it will take 45 min to Framingham and another 60 mins (?) to you00:45
srichterso between 9:00-10:0000:45
srichteris that ok?00:45
*** didymo has joined #schooltool01:24
povbot`/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4388:01:28
povbot`/svn/commits: Tweaked container view according to suggestions on the list.01:28
povbot`/svn/commits: Juggled the layout of the group members batch.01:28
*** gintas has quit IRC01:47
povbot`/svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 4389:04:37
povbot`/svn/commits: - Switched temporarly to Zope 3's `testbrowser-integration` branch so that04:37
povbot`/svn/commits: I can make use of the new testbrowser (formerly known as mechtest).04:37
povbot`/svn/commits: - Removed src/zc again.04:37
povbot`/svn/commits: - Updated the functional tests.04:37
povbot`/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4390:05:31
povbot`/svn/commits: fixed container sorting some container/batch ftests.05:31
*** Rick_CCS has joined #schooltool05:58
Rick_CCSgreetings everybody05:59
Rick_CCSdoes anyone know how to change language on schoolbell?05:59
th1aRick_CCS:  Hi06:05
th1aWhat language do you want?06:05
Rick_CCSi install by apt06:05
Rick_CCSon debian06:05
Rick_CCSand i'm see es.py06:05
Rick_CCSbut i don't know how to "setting up"06:06
Rick_CCSby the way, that's the best calendar that i see, best suits the need of the college here on venezuela06:08
Rick_CCSbut teachers don't know exactly good english06:08
th1aOf course.06:08
Rick_CCSso, i prefer change it to spanish06:08
th1aThere is a Spanish translation.06:08
th1aI don't know exactly what you have to do to make it work, unfortunately.06:09
Rick_CCSyeap! i locate on /usr/lib/libschoolbell/utilsdocs06:09
Rick_CCSthat's a shame!!!!!!!06:09
Rick_CCSbecause i'm trying to analyse the code but no sucess on that!!!!!!!!!!06:09
th1asrichter:  ayt?06:10
th1aThere are lots of other non-English speakers on the project.  Most of them are asleep right now, however.06:10
Rick_CCSohhhh, trying to locate one tomorrow then!06:10
Rick_CCSthanks a lot06:11
th1aTry in the morning.06:11
Rick_CCShi again06:39
Rick_CCSi'm testing the system with explorer and mozilla06:39
Rick_CCSon mozilla looks fine everything06:39
Rick_CCSbut on explorer, when you try the week vista, this going down down a let a blank space betwen toolbar and week data06:40
Rick_CCSis that a bug?06:40
th1aIt is a bug.  I think it has been fixed in the new release.  We'll have a testing version on Tuesday.06:40
Rick_CCSohhh all right06:41
Rick_CCSthanks a lot06:41
Rick_CCSon other matters, on console06:41
th1aNo problem.06:41
Rick_CCShow can you determine the version of a package with apt?06:41
th1aI don't know.06:41
Rick_CCSapt-cache doesn't show the version06:41
Rick_CCSsorry bother you about that ;)06:41
th1aThe new version tells you in the web interface.06:41
Rick_CCSthis is the info below06:42
Rick_CCS© The Shuttleworth Foundation 2003 - 2005: Supporting Social Innovation.06:42
Rick_CCSSchoolToolâ„¢ is a Trademark of The Shuttleworth Foundation.06:42
th1aRight... the *new* version (out next week) tells you which version it is.06:42
Rick_CCSjejejeje sorry!06:42
*** didymo has quit IRC08:21
*** Rick_CCS has quit IRC08:30
*** povbot has joined #schooltool09:37
*** povbot` has quit IRC09:50
*** Aiste has quit IRC09:51
*** povbot has joined #schooltool10:04
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool10:04
*** srichter has quit IRC13:22
*** tvon has quit IRC14:28
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool14:57
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool15:21
*** matiasV has joined #schooltool15:44
*** matiasV has quit IRC16:05
*** matiasV has joined #schooltool16:05
*** erchache has joined #schooltool16:07
*** tvon has joined #schooltool16:34
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool16:53
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4391:17:05
povbot/svn/commits: display logic17:05
* tvon hates @ ftests17:26
*** pcardune has joined #schooltool17:29
mgedminmechanize will make ftests easier, hopefully17:29
tvonyeah, I'm looking forward to that17:29
pcardunesorry, it seems I have missed the conversation, but has the mechtest package made it into the zope svn repository?17:34
mgedminI think so, let me check17:34
mgedminit was renamed to something else btw17:35
th1asrichter is here with me.17:36
th1aIn the inner sanctum.17:36
tvonI saw it removed the other day.. yesterday perhaps... I don't see it in there now17:36
tvonmgedmin: heh, I was wondering if that use of sortby would raise alarms or not17:50
* tvon fixes17:50
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4392:17:50
povbot/svn/commits: person/groups batching17:50
*** alga has quit IRC17:53
tvonhrm, could put sorting in batch17:59
mgedminthat's not a bad idea18:03
mgedmin(unless we want to eventually refactor batching in zope3 from bugtracker.batching to zope.batching and then switch to that one instead of rolling our own)18:04
tvonas it stands to use bugtracker.batching I'd have to either subclass it or move some functionality around18:05
tvonwell, if it gets moved into main then I'd subclass it18:05
*** pcardune has quit IRC18:07
*** munkee has quit IRC18:07
*** auxesis has quit IRC18:07
*** munkee has joined #schooltool18:09
*** auxesis has joined #schooltool18:10
tvonhrm, should Batch.sortBy(attr) return a new batch or sort itself?18:18
mgedminif the API is not obvious, then it is not very good18:19
tvonwhat do you mean?18:19
mgedminmy, that sounded ... um... pompous, didn't it? ;)18:20
mgedminhow about this:18:20
tvonnot sure what you meant by "don't", it wasn't a yes or no question :)18:20
mgedminbatch = Batch(some_list, sort_by='title', start=42, size=15)18:20
mgedminI think a method 'sortBy' of the Batch class is not a good idea18:21
mgedminOTOH, how is my last example different from18:21
mgedminbatch = Batch(sort_by(some_list, 'title'), start=42, size=15)?18:21
*** pcardune has joined #schooltool18:22
mgedminless parentheses, perhaps18:22
* mgedmin shrugs18:23
mgedmineither is fine18:23
mgedminby the way, what do you think about making Batch() accept arbitrary iterators18:23
mgedmini.e. Batch.__init__ could do self.list_or_whatever = list(iterable_argument)18:23
mgedminthen you would not need to be careful about explicitly converting container.values() into a real list before passing it to Batch18:24
tvon(one sec)18:24
mgedmin(I admit I do not know/remember why that conversion was necessary)18:24
* mgedmin about to go eat something in a place that has no wifi18:24
tvonyeah, it should take iterables18:25
*** mgedmin has quit IRC18:26
tvonI'm working in a coffee shop where some friends work18:27
* tvon hasnt paid for coffee in ages18:27
* tvon is spoiled18:27
pcarduneis there some trick to getting mechanize to work?  I try to build it, and it is looking to import BaseHandler, but doesn't find it... strange18:32
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool18:36
jelknerpcardune: hey paul, you here?18:36
th1apcardune: there is nothing special to it;18:41
th1abut you need the branch testbrowser-integration18:41
th1ayou also need the packages: mechanize, pullparser, ClientForm and ClientCookie18:42
th1aif you look at the srichter-workflow SchoolTool branch, it uses this version of Zope and has a testbrowser test in src/schooltool/level/browser/README.txt18:43
th1aThat was srichter typing, by the way.18:44
pcarduneah, yes, i discovered about the extra packages18:45
*** eldar has joined #schooltool18:45
pcardunewhere do i get testbrowser-integration?18:46
pcardune(looking for it now)18:46
pcardunejelkner, I'm here18:46
jelknerdon't mean to interrupt, keep doing what you're doing18:47
jelknerpcardune: let's talk about import/export19:03
pcardunejelkner: ok19:03
jelknerwe agreed last week that we are going to store everything in a pickle file, yes?19:04
pcardunejelkner: yes, that is done19:04
pcardunefor a few different objects19:04
pcardunewe can now export score system objects, and competecny *group* objects19:04
pcarduneand we can even export their containers (meaning, multiple competency group objects all stored in one pickle file)19:05
jelknerwe are going to want to export all user entered data19:05
jelknerand, yes, a single file would be ideal19:05
jelknerit would make backup and recovery easier from a user's point of view19:05
jelknerwhat did you name the file19:06
eldarwhere is the default manager for schooltool defined?19:06
eldarthe manager/schooltool one19:06
pcarduneummm, ctd or something19:06
pcardunei was going to change that19:06
pcardunewell, it doesn't do *that* yet19:06
pcardunei thought i would build import export from the ground up19:07
jelknerwhat do you mean, "from the ground up?"19:07
pcarduneso first i worked on exporting individual objects, then their containers... and the next step is to export individual evaluation objects.... then their containers... then eventually everything at once19:07
pcardunethis way we keep the functionality of being able to export individual objects (which is still useful) as well as being able to export everything19:08
jelknerwhat will the ui be like for that?19:08
jelknereldar, are you setting up the instance for today's meeting?19:09
pcarduneif you are looking a single object, and click "export" it exports the single object19:09
pcarduneif you are looking at a list of those objects, and click export... it exports all the objects into one file19:09
pcarduneit exports whatever context you are in19:09
jelknerwhat about if i am setting up a new server, or you are making some major architectural change to cando, and i want to export *everything* i've done19:10
pcardunewe're not there yet19:11
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4393:19:15
povbot/svn/commits: Allow sorting the batch by providing an optional argument to the constructor.19:15
jelkneri don't see any reason not to just use a pickle file for all the data, do you?19:16
pcarduneno absolutely not19:17
pcardunethe way i have implemented it is...19:17
pcarduneevery python object has an import/export method which deals only with python objects... mostly dictionaries19:17
pcarduneso when i call the export method of the object, it returns a dictionary to me19:17
pcarduneso if i am exporting a container, i get a dictionary with a list of dictionaries that represent the individual objects' data19:18
jelknerso the problem of exporting everything, is making sure you call the export methods on everything?19:18
pcarduneits sort of like a tree of exports19:18
jelknerhave you asked for any feedback on how best to do that?19:19
pcardunein the root directory, we call the export method of all the objects in the root directory (including other directories) which subsequently call export methods on objects in there... so on and so on... so we end up with a really deep python dictionary that holds everything19:19
pcardunei've done it already19:19
jelknerso what isn't done?19:19
pcardunei'm just explaining to you how i've done it19:19
pcardunewe just need to implement the import export for evaluations19:20
pcarduneand then for the root candotoo directory where all the candotoo objects live19:20
pcardunealthough that is a bit tricky19:20
pcardunebecause there is no data stored in evaluations... except score data... otherwise, it is just a bunch of relationship properties19:21
pcarduneexporting isn't as much a problem as importing19:21
jelkneroh, btw, it is time to switch from candotoo to simply cando19:21
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4394:19:22
povbot/svn/commits: Removing the yuck, adding batch side sorting19:22
jelknerand how do we handle the cvs thing?19:22
pcardunejust leave it19:22
pcardunefor now19:22
pcardune(it really really needs to be cleaned up)19:22
pcarduneanyways, on with the example:19:22
jelkneri would like to move the old version into some folder where it can grow old and dye in peace19:22
pcardunedye?  what color?19:23
*** ignas has joined #schooltool19:23
pcardune(sorry) couldn't resist19:23
*** th1a has quit IRC19:23
pcardunei can hear you laughing19:23
jelknerand make the new version the root of the repository19:23
pcarduneanyways, so , i have an evaluation objects with links to a score system, to people, to sections to competency groups, when i export, i wont export the objects it is connected to, only their unique identifiers19:24
pcardunewhen i import that evaluation, i will expect to find those objects, based on the identifiers19:24
pcardunenow what if they aren't there?19:24
pcardunedo we make them?19:24
pcardunewhat if they are there, but they are in fact different objects?19:25
pcardunedo we overwrite them?19:25
jelknerok, at first we do the simplest thing that works19:25
jelknerwe assume that we get what we expect to get19:25
pcarduneand just throw out an error if we don't19:25
pcarduneand let the end user decide what to do19:26
jelknerwill that work?19:26
pcarduneok, that can be done19:26
jelknerlet's try that19:26
pcardunethat's *easy*19:26
jelknereasy is good!19:26
jelknerok, paul, you ready to talk about portfolios?19:36
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4395:19:36
povbot/svn/commits: don't restrict the batch to lists.19:36
pcardunelay it on19:36
jelknerok, dave will really just want a way to link somewhere19:37
jelknerso for the feature freeze first version, that's all we really need19:37
pcarduneyeah, that will be about a 15 minute feature add...19:37
jelknergood, can you do that now?19:38
jelkneri will want *a lot* more, but that will all wait until september19:38
pcardunewell, tell me about what you want now, so i can start thinking about implementation (in september)19:39
jelknerjust to give you an idea, i want portfolio objects that relate to competencies19:39
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4396:19:39
povbot/svn/commits: remove now-redundant list() usage19:39
jelknerbut let's talk about all that later19:39
pcardunejelkner: what kind of terminology do you want to use for this link deal?19:40
pcardunewhat is it exactly?19:40
jelknerso let me stop talking an wait for you to get the portfolio links added19:40
jelknerhow about "portfolio link"19:41
tvonah, nm19:47
tvonI thought I had a big annoying problem, but I was wrong19:50
tvon("#$!@@#" is short for "a lot of nasty words")19:51
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4397:20:02
povbot/svn/commits: ApplicationPreferences for schooltool (that don't come with a 'SchoolBell' title)20:02
*** erchache has left #schooltool20:17
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool20:23
tvonisn't the section title missing from the section views?20:29
tvonthe section container view anyways20:31
* tvon shrugs20:31
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4398:20:35
povbot/svn/commits: Container searching in ST20:35
povbot/svn/commits: The section container does not currently display the section title (which is what I'm searching on) is this intentional/correct?20:35
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4399:20:39
povbot/svn/commits: course container searching20:39
pcardunethis might be a stupid question, but how do you use svn branches?20:46
tvonsvn cp20:46
pcardunedownloading them20:47
ignastvon, ping20:47
tvonignas: hey20:47
pcardunedon't answer my question, i'll figure it out with trial + error20:47
tvonpcardune: a branch is just a different URL than the trunk20:47
tvonyou can take the URL from the browser there and pass it to 'svn co'20:48
tvonsvn co
tvonsvn co
pcardunebut when i check it out, i should be where? in my schooltool directory?20:50
pcarduneor is it like a totally different thing?20:50
pcardune(thing == checkout)20:50
tvonits a new checkout20:50
tvonignas: ?20:51
ignasabout section titles20:51
tvonyeah, am I on crack or is there something missing?20:52
ignaswhat is the status - are we still using obnoxious labels ?20:52
tvonyeah, right now it's "instructor(s) - course"20:52
ignaslike - sectionas are a special case - they do not have a meaningfull title, you should not ever see their container, and yada yada20:52
tvonsection title is not displayed anywhere in the container view, but then again .... yeah, I'm not sure what we are doing with the container view20:53
ignasthough iirc someone raised an idea that we should use title, but make title a property20:53
* mgedmin reads about people using pickles as a data format20:54
* mgedmin thinks that's not a very good idea20:54
* mgedmin remembers something that malicious pickles may cause arbitry code to be executed on the process that tries to load them20:55
tvonignas: well right now the container view has searching, which searches on title, but the title is not displayed.... I"m open to changing that of course20:56
tvonI don't want to get too involved until after the RC though20:56
tvonon an unrelated note: Where should I look to change default ACL settings on the application object?20:57
ignastvon, well the flip label->title was discussed just before our last RC, and it was postponed, and forgotten :/20:58
ignasthough - yes i think the change might touch too many areas, to do before RC20:59
tvonshould we just display the title? or 'title - course' ?20:59
ignasunit tests theorethically should make it safe enough though :D20:59
pcardunemgedmin: that is very interesting, i didn't know about that21:01
pcardunemgedmin: although i think for now we are safe, since *noone* is using our software, and it will be at least a year until some kid smart enough to know how to make malicious pickle files ever uses our system in an environment where it matters (and by then we'll be using xml i think)21:02
ignasi am scared already21:03
pcardunei definitly am for making title a property... the labels really don't make that much sense21:04
ignasyep look at the section container - generic container template diff21:04
pcardunezope checkouts take *forever*21:10
pcardunewhy cant it generate a tarball after every checkin, then checkouts download the tarball, unpack it, and you're ready to go21:11
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4400:21:31
*** pcardune has quit IRC21:31
povbot/svn/commits: Batching for section instructor add/remove view.21:31
*** srichter has joined #schooltool21:31
*** bskahan has joined #schooltool21:54
bskahanignas: if we get a clear consensus on what to do with section title vs. labels I'll implement it21:55
*** th1a has joined #schooltool21:55
bskahanthe initial story (last release) specified identifying sections by course, teacher21:56
bskahanI added titles this release cycle so that schools could also have section codes in whatever format they want21:57
bskahanunfortunately, I think when people talk about a section they often refer to it by something like our label, but in printed schedules it seems quite a few schools use a code21:58
th1aIf schools actually have codes for sections, that changes things.22:05
th1aI suppose this might be my small-school bias.22:05
* bskahan saw the schedules for NYPSS in june22:05
th1aI mean, thinking they didn't have codes might be my bias.22:05
th1aOf course, those codes still aren't meaningful to humans.22:05
bskahanthe next day I added the codes22:05
bskahannot really, but it was a bug factor22:06
th1aYou might say "I've got CS101 next period."  But you'd never say "I've got 25352" next.22:06
bskahanCS101 is a code22:06
bskahanthe trick is that courses might have codes too22:06
bskahanCS101-001 would be common to universities22:07
Aisteth1a: did you receive my emails with invoice?22:07
th1aAiste:  Yep.  I'll send those in before I leave.  Stephan has to make one for me, too.22:08
AisteI mixed up the dates in the first one, so just throw it away :)22:08
th1aIt's in GMail, so it will live forever.22:08
bskahanwe could support the university model with deptartment, course, section codes (that would require having 'departments' though)22:09
mgedminth1a, I keep forgetting about the Oxford hotel bill22:09
mgedminso far I haven't heard from anyone regarding it22:10
th1aWhat is the last thing that happened with it?22:10
mgedminI sent you the scanned bill22:11
*** bskahan has quit IRC22:19
th1aYou sent me the scanned bill?22:30
th1aWell... send it to me again.22:31
th1aI don't remember one way or another what I did with it.22:31
th1aIf you don't have it I can look for it.22:31
th1aShould be in GMail somewhere.22:32
th1aOK, mgedmin?22:32
mgedminI'll just resend the same message22:40
mgedminI wonder what'll happen to its Date header22:40
mgedminand where gmail will place it...22:40
mgedminfwiw the subject is "Re: Fwd: Reimbursed Expenses"22:41
*** mgedmin has quit IRC22:46
*** erchache has joined #schooltool22:48
*** erchache has quit IRC22:50
*** SteveA has quit IRC22:51
*** ignas has quit IRC22:52
th1amgedmin:  I got the scans, but I don't have a copy of the spreadsheet.22:53
Aisteth1a: he just left for home :)23:04
th1aOK.  I'll send him an email.23:05
*** srichter has quit IRC23:11
*** tvon|x31 has joined #schooltool23:37
*** tvon has quit IRC23:37
tvon|x31erm... did my response to gintas on the list come through as complete gibberish?23:38
*** bskahan has joined #schooltool23:40
*** bskahan has quit IRC23:46

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!