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| erchache | hi | 10:16 |
|---|---|---|
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| tvon | svn externals are annoying | 12:57 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4225: | 13:01 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fix date parsing and setting. | 13:01 |
| mgedmin | tvon, svn 1.2.0 can ignore them, if you say --ignore-externals | 13:02 |
| mgedmin | since yesterday I've a shell script wrapper for svn that adds this flag for svn up and svn st | 13:02 |
| tvon | mgedmin: actually I keep trying to commit to the sb external in st.. | 13:02 |
| mgedmin | ah ;) | 13:03 |
| tvon | I thought I was all clever because I copied schoolbell-server and schoolbell.conf.in to the schooltool dir so I could run either one (after wiping data.fs granted) | 13:04 |
| tvon | alas, I'm not so slick | 13:04 |
| mgedmin | you can play with symlinks and have src/schoolbell point to a writeable checkout | 13:05 |
| tvon | I think svn update will choke if the external is not what it's expecting | 13:05 |
| mgedmin | svn up doesn't replace symlinks or descend into symlinked trees (unless the svn:externals property changes on the server) | 13:06 |
| tvon | ah | 13:06 |
| mgedmin | it complains a little bit, but works nevertheless | 13:06 |
| tvon | well thats good enough for me | 13:06 |
| mgedmin | alga uses this scheme, and I used to | 13:06 |
| mgedmin | but then I decided this was cheating and stopped ;) | 13:06 |
| tvon | hah | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | somebody among the developers ought to test the same environment that regular users get when they check out | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | at least until we set up buildbot to run tests automatically after each checkin | 13:07 |
| tvon | speaking of buildbots, whats up with ftests? | 13:08 |
| mgedmin | oh? | 13:10 |
| mgedmin | they all passed on my laptop five minutes ago | 13:10 |
| tvon | looks like everything dies when it tries to add ST to a z3 | 13:10 |
| tvon | mgedmin: Do you have any time to help me track down an unauthorized exception with the school-wide calendar at some point? | 13:13 |
| mgedmin | I guess it depends on how hard it is ;) | 13:14 |
| tvon | heh | 13:14 |
| mgedmin | does the schoolwide calendar have a proper __parent__? | 13:15 |
| * mgedmin notes that all ftests pass here -- both schooltool's and schoolbell's | 13:15 | |
| tvon | hrm | 13:15 |
| tvon | the patch for the calendar is here: http://paste.plone.org/2844 | 13:15 |
| tvon | wait, thats not right | 13:16 |
| tvon | and no, parent is not set properly anywhere | 13:18 |
| tvon | actually I think Calendar() sets it | 13:18 |
| mgedmin | it can't | 13:20 |
| mgedmin | you're not passing anything to it | 13:20 |
| tvon | it takes self | 13:20 |
| tvon | or an obj | 13:20 |
| mgedmin | owner | 13:20 |
| tvon | in SchoolToolApplication.__init__ I have calendar=Calendar(self) | 13:20 |
| tvon | ah | 13:21 |
| mgedmin | that's not what I see in your patch on paste.plone.org | 13:21 |
| mgedmin | I see self.calendar = Calendar() | 13:21 |
| tvon | oh son of a bitch | 13:21 |
| tvon | you are a genius | 13:21 |
| tvon | in schoolbell I pass 'self', and it amazingly works in schoolbell | 13:21 |
| * tvon sighs | 13:21 | |
| mgedmin | btw you misspelt SchoolTool as ScholTool | 13:22 |
| tvon | where? | 13:22 |
| mgedmin | +class ScholToolApplicationTraverser(sbcal.CalendarOwnerTraverser): | 13:22 |
| tvon | ah | 13:23 |
| tvon | thanks | 13:23 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4226: | 14:23 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Another timetable wizard step: names of days. | 14:23 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4227: | 14:37 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Moved ttwizard to the schooltool.timetable.browser package. | 14:37 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4228: | 15:33 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Another wizard step: entering start and times for classes. It is functional, but needs more polish. | 15:33 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4229: | 15:39 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: TimetableSchemaWizard is not a Step. | 15:39 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4230: | 15:40 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Spanish Inquisition. | 15:40 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4231: | 15:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Shuffled code around. | 15:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4232: | 15:56 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Refactored things common to all form-based steps into a new base class. Wrote unit tests for it. | 15:56 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4233: | 15:59 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Rewrote test for getSessionData to indicate that it is reused in two classes. | 15:59 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Moved doctest_ChoiceStep so that the order of tests matches the order of classes. | 15:59 |
| eldar | for the upcoming version? | 16:13 |
| eldar | or for the whole thing? | 16:13 |
| eldar | because the idea of having all the competencies(skills) in a separate container and just poing to them is very appealing | 16:13 |
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| pcardune | eldar, hello | 16:14 |
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| eldar | hi | 16:14 |
| eldar | the idea of having all the competencies(skills) in a separate container and just poing to them is very appealing | 16:14 |
| eldar | poing = pointing * | 16:15 |
| pcardune | yeah | 16:15 |
| eldar | that way the Score class only has to store the ID's of skills | 16:15 |
| eldar | so we are sticking to the old way for now? | 16:16 |
| pcardune | yeah | 16:16 |
| pcardune | except this time we will put in precautionary locks | 16:16 |
| eldar | ok. | 16:17 |
| pcardune | to tell the administrator, "if you change this value, you change *a lot* of peoples competencies" | 16:17 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4234: | 16:21 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Cosmetic ftest update. | 16:21 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4235: | 16:23 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed impedance mismatch between SimpleSlotEntryStep.update and FinalStep.createSchema. | 16:23 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Obviously it is time to write a functional test, even though the wizard is not yet complete. | 16:23 |
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| erchache | wel | 16:58 |
| erchache | well | 16:58 |
| erchache | my system is ok now | 16:58 |
| th1a | Did you get Apache configured? | 17:04 |
| erchache | nope | 17:09 |
| erchache | im installing windows xp on my mac via virtual pc now | 17:09 |
| erchache | and on my wiki i suffer a DoS attack | 17:10 |
| th1a | Ah. | 17:10 |
| erchache | and all morning are hitting my head to a wall to solve it.... | 17:10 |
| th1a | Do you have enemies, erchache? | 17:10 |
| erchache | a teacher asking me to update his moodle system on a windows machine | 17:10 |
| erchache | yeah | 17:10 |
| erchache | all wikipedia admins! | 17:10 |
| erchache | we install our own system | 17:10 |
| erchache | and makes a fork of es.wikipedia | 17:10 |
| erchache | we have more hits and users than them | 17:11 |
| erchache | at first time....all users of wikipedia leave it and goes to our system | 17:11 |
| erchache | this is the beggining of the war | 17:11 |
| th1a | That is a strange story. What's the URL of your fork? | 17:12 |
| erchache | enciclopedia.us.es | 17:12 |
| erchache | we get all our thing from es.wikipedia.org and translate it to enciclopedia.us.es | 17:12 |
| erchache | like a child when leaves home! | 17:12 |
| erchache | :P | 17:12 |
| erchache | and mediawiki software is a honeypot to get all bad boys of internet | 17:13 |
| erchache | una maldicion gitana | 17:13 |
| pcardune | so, why is your version better than theirs? | 17:15 |
| erchache | we have less articles but we have the best articles you know | 17:15 |
| erchache | and we working on both systems | 17:15 |
| erchache | they are angry with us....not us | 17:16 |
| th1a | erchache: Are you in Barcelona? | 17:17 |
| erchache | no | 17:18 |
| erchache | in sevilla | 17:18 |
| erchache | in south | 17:19 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:19 |
| erchache | do you know sevilla? | 17:19 |
| th1a | No. I've only been to Castellón. | 17:19 |
| erchache | ahh...for university interchange program? | 17:19 |
| th1a | For a conference a few months ago. | 17:20 |
| erchache | ahhh | 17:20 |
| erchache | but castellon...well is beaty but.... | 17:20 |
| erchache | barcelona is better | 17:20 |
| erchache | and sevilla too | 17:20 |
| erchache | but now is a bad time to come here | 17:21 |
| erchache | 43º C | 17:21 |
| erchache | at the shadow | 17:21 |
| erchache | if you put on sunplace | 17:21 |
| erchache | arggghhhhh | 17:21 |
| erchache | your brain become liquid | 17:21 |
| th1a | Well, I guess I'll stop packing, then. | 17:21 |
| erchache | hehehehehe | 17:22 |
| th1a | Sevilla = Seville, right? | 17:22 |
| erchache | yeah | 17:22 |
| erchache | the best time is holy week | 17:22 |
| erchache | yeah | 17:22 |
| th1a | I'm writing a blog entry about your Wikipedia fork. | 17:22 |
| erchache | uhmm | 17:22 |
| erchache | ok | 17:22 |
| erchache | i see your blog | 17:22 |
| erchache | i dont have blog | 17:23 |
| erchache | i hate to write it....too tedious | 17:23 |
| erchache | well win xp finished install | 17:23 |
| erchache | hehehe | 17:23 |
| erchache | programs like vmware and virtuall pc are very very good | 17:24 |
| erchache | 2 systems on one | 17:24 |
| erchache | :P | 17:24 |
| erchache | mac os x, dports and win xp with virtual pc | 17:24 |
| erchache | 3 systems on one | 17:24 |
| erchache | :D | 17:24 |
| th1a | Virtual PC is a constant disappointment. | 17:25 |
| th1a | I was hoping it would be easy to run lots of different distros on it, but many don't install correctly. | 17:26 |
| erchache | uhmm..... | 17:26 |
| erchache | uhmm i only need win exploter | 17:26 |
| th1a | That'll work. | 17:27 |
| th1a | Kind of expensive edition of Explorer, though :-) | 17:27 |
| erchache | its enoguh for me | 17:27 |
| erchache | yeah | 17:27 |
| erchache | morralla xp | 17:27 |
| erchache | on spanish :P | 17:27 |
| pcardune | I've got a schooltool user interface question | 17:31 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4236: | 17:31 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Refactored the timetable models, added a new timetable model (sequential, day templates indexed by day id). | 17:31 |
| erchache | well | 17:32 |
| erchache | i left i need to close some applications | 17:32 |
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| pcardune | what if i want one of my objects to be a folder... just a regular zope folder, where a person can add page templates, and all sorts of other stuff... how do i make that folder have the regular zope interface and not the schooltool one | 17:32 |
| pcardune | th1a, or maybe you have some implementation ideas for what i'm thinking of | 17:35 |
| th1a | So you want admins to be able to customize the look? Is that what you're driving at? | 17:36 |
| pcardune | no, i want users to have their own websites so to speak, where they can keep a "portfolio" of the stuff they are working on | 17:36 |
| th1a | Oy. | 17:37 |
| th1a | That's a big kettle of fish. | 17:37 |
| pcardune | we did it with Zope2... just put in a folder object with an acl_users, make them the user and they have their own fully functional zope site | 17:37 |
| th1a | I don't think that should be "in" SchoolTool. | 17:37 |
| th1a | Or, not at this point. | 17:38 |
| pcardune | yeah, i'm thinking in the future... (as in not this week but this summer) | 17:38 |
| th1a | Oh, ok. | 17:38 |
| pcardune | or maybe it would be suitable enough to have wikis | 17:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4237: | 17:39 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Removed a duplicate file that appeared after yesterday's great moving. | 17:39 |
| pcardune | like, class websites | 17:39 |
| th1a | Well, we're going to be discussing how this kind of thing would work once we get the next release out. By "this kind of thing" I mean more precisely how SchoolTool interacts with the rest of Zope 3. | 17:39 |
| pcardune | i see | 17:40 |
| pcardune | you see, elkner already has something to that effect http://linus.yhspatriot.net/cs/cs/p4/students and we just want to make it a standard practice among teachers of tech classes | 17:41 |
| pcardune | (i'm speaking for arlington county policy makers here) | 17:41 |
| th1a | pcardune: I think the main issue is defining how one cleanly integrates new functionality into the SchoolTool UI, right? | 17:41 |
| pcardune | right | 17:42 |
| th1a | Yeah, that's a major goal for August/September. | 17:42 |
| pcardune | also, for cleanly extending what you already have | 17:43 |
| pcardune | for example, you don't have user specific views | 17:43 |
| pcardune | in our old system, if a student logs in, he gets a different set of actions than if a teacher logs in | 17:43 |
| pcardune | since schooltool doesn't predefine even the concept of teacher and student, and makes no distinction between any users at all (with the interface) there is nothing like that | 17:44 |
| alga | permissions might help | 17:44 |
| alga | a user only sees the menu items he can access | 17:45 |
| pcardune | right | 17:45 |
| eldar | oh btw, can the users still edit each other profiles? | 17:45 |
| alga | they shouldn't unless you grant them the permission to | 17:46 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4238: | 18:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added a sketch SlotEntryStep, a view for adding slot times for each day. Added IndependentDaysStep, used to get to the new view. | 18:07 |
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| jelkner | pcardune: hi paul | 18:16 |
| jelkner | eldar was just telling me about the problem with user folders, so i wanted to ask you about that. | 18:17 |
| jelkner | zope3 does not currently support user folders? | 18:17 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4239: | 18:20 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed some brain damage of my own. Changed the function getSessionData() to take a request as an argument, not a view. | 18:20 |
| pcardune | jelkner, it does, it's just that they can't live inside schooltool or candotoo for that matter | 18:23 |
| alga | jelkner: schooltool provides and authentication utility | 18:24 |
| jelkner | ok, paul, i just read the log | 18:24 |
| alga | so it is a kind of user folder of its own | 18:24 |
| alga | s/and/an/ | 18:24 |
| jelkner | so tom is saying august/september to talk about making that work smootly? | 18:24 |
| pcardune | jelkner, yeah, we would have to make it as a "sybling" to the schooltool object | 18:24 |
| pcardune | jelkner, right, we can do it, it just wont be pretty | 18:25 |
| jelkner | doing this is not on the top of our customer's list of stories | 18:25 |
| pcardune | jelkner, ok, sounds good | 18:26 |
| jelkner | but it will be needed by september some time | 18:26 |
| jelkner | dave and i both use it | 18:26 |
| jelkner | naturally, we won't have any student portfolios until we have students | 18:26 |
| pcardune | jelkner, we can make a manual way to link to folders outside, and we can make a little python script for doing that | 18:27 |
| jelkner | but as you know, the ability to integrate competency tracking with delivery of curriculum and student portfolios is what makes CanDo a killer app | 18:27 |
| jelkner | that's what got the folks in Virginia CTE to drop what they were doing and back us. | 18:28 |
| jelkner | let's focus on the low hanging fruit for now | 18:29 |
| pcardune | jelkner, yeah, what we can do is make a very basic form of that, where each evaluation has a text field which students/teachers can put stuff in, it could even be html code... just no images/wikis/websites | 18:29 |
| pcardune | it actually is a pretty good idea to put all that stuff in folders that live in the same directory that the schooltool object lives in | 18:32 |
| pcardune | and it wouldn't be any harder to implement either | 18:32 |
| pcardune | we would just have to change it later when schooltool changes to have some better system for doing stuff like that | 18:32 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4240: | 18:33 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Incorporated Marius' suggestions. | 18:33 |
| jelkner | and that's not a problem either, cause we are using an agile development approach that makes embracing change easier, yes? ;-) | 18:33 |
| pcardune | yeah | 18:33 |
| jelkner | so i'm all in favor of doing the simplest thing that works | 18:33 |
| jelkner | anyway, i gotta get back to setting up zope and moodle to both run on port 80 on the same server | 18:34 |
| jelkner | i'll leave you to your work | 18:34 |
| jelkner | you have your own server now... | 18:34 |
| jelkner | let's get the demo up asap so we are ready for dave tomorrow | 18:35 |
| pcardune | that is what i'm working on right now | 18:35 |
| jelkner | ok, great, talk to you later... | 18:35 |
| pcardune | bye | 18:35 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4241: | 18:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added an overview section to the timetable schema ftest. | 18:42 |
| *** th1a|school is now known as jelkner | 18:45 | |
| *** jelkner is now known as th1a | 18:45 | |
| th1a | Whoops. | 18:45 |
| mgedmin | oh | 18:48 |
| mgedmin | for a moment there I thought you two switched nicks | 18:48 |
| mgedmin | and I couldn't understand how jelkner could to that since he left and didn't join again | 18:48 |
| bskahan | tom's been impersonating jeff again? | 18:51 |
| th1a | This is the first time I've gotten caught. | 18:52 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4242: | 18:53 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: CycleStep.update now fills session['day_names'] with weekday names if the weekly cycle is selected. | 18:53 |
| th1a | Although usually I stick to impersonating jeff on #pedophilia | 18:53 |
| bskahan | ouch | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | does jeff know? | 19:03 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4243: | 19:29 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Bugfix: there is no METAL slot named "h1" in the template. | 19:29 |
| pcardune | http://207.126.122.106:8080/schooltool/index.html <---- finally a server for our cando project | 19:45 |
| eldar | err paul, we could run it on port 80 you know | 19:45 |
| eldar | so it's prettier :P | 19:45 |
| pcardune | yeah... i was just thinking that | 19:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4244: | 19:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Preliminary advanced slot time entry step (used when we have different times for different days). | 19:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Not integrated in the timetable creator yet, needs some polishing. | 19:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4245: | 20:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Hacked in the Sequential Day Id based model support into the timetable schema RESTive view. | 20:02 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4246: | 20:19 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added a straightforward ftest for the new timetable wizard. | 20:19 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4247: | 20:31 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added a second walk through the wizard -- this time with a rotating schedule. | 20:31 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added verification of the schemas created via RESTive API. | 20:31 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4248: | 20:40 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Changed FinalStep.createSchema to assume periods are designated by time. | 20:40 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4249: | 20:53 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Updated widget macros so that labels can be optional. | 20:53 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4250: | 20:56 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Made the forms nicer by adding descriptions above and removing awkwardly wrapped labels on the left. | 20:56 |
| *** th1a is now known as th1a|school | 20:56 | |
| pcardune | eldar, ayt? | 21:03 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4251: | 21:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Nice error handling in the day name entry step. | 21:07 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4252: | 21:23 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Nice error handling in the slot time entry step. | 21:23 |
| srichter | th1a|school: are you there? | 21:25 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4253: | 21:36 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added error and description fields to SlotEntryStep. Didn't touch the update method and those TODOs about showing error messages, as I didn't want to step on Gintas's toes. | 21:36 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4254: | 21:57 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added functional test for the Cancel button in the wizard. | 21:57 |
| srichter | is it really necessary that we get the checkin messages in this channel? I am subscribed to the checkin mailing list and see them there | 21:59 |
| srichter | or can I tell povbot to not send them to me? | 21:59 |
| *** th1a|school is now known as th1a | 22:00 | |
| mgedmin | you can ignore povbot | 22:00 |
| th1a | I'm back. | 22:00 |
| mgedmin | it doesn't say anything else | 22:00 |
| srichter | is there an IRC setting to ignore it? | 22:00 |
| mgedmin | uhh, that's beyond my knowledge of irc | 22:00 |
| th1a | I'll check. | 22:00 |
| mgedmin | xchat has an /ignore command | 22:01 |
| srichter | th1a: I called the package for the promotion workflow, "promotion". Is that okay in terms of terminology? | 22:01 |
| mgedmin | and there's a popup menu item | 22:01 |
| srichter | Konversation too :-) | 22:01 |
| th1a | Yeah, I think ignore is the command. | 22:02 |
| th1a | srichter: Promotion is the best I've come up with. | 22:02 |
| th1a | Actually, here's an interesting paper on elearning workflows and web services: http://www.e-framework.org/SOAandWorkflow2.pdf | 22:04 |
| th1a | It is worth a scan. | 22:04 |
| srichter | ok, I'll scan it | 22:05 |
| th1a | Mostly it reassured me that I'm not the only one thinking trying to construct things in this way. | 22:07 |
| srichter | :-) | 22:07 |
| srichter | now that I am working on it, the issue is quiet deep | 22:09 |
| th1a | I'm also working on my contacts with the more mainstream eLearning and eFolio people in Europe, and what we're doing should be interesting to them. | 22:09 |
| th1a | Especially since we're just diving into it rather than spending all our time theorizing. | 22:09 |
| srichter | :-) | 22:10 |
| srichter | the strange thing is that a grade is still more of a workflow data object than an activity | 22:11 |
| srichter | of course, any noun can be converted to a verb: grade -> complete grade | 22:11 |
| srichter | but I now believe I understood the issue incorrectly | 22:11 |
| srichter | the verb is something else | 22:12 |
| srichter | and the workflow right now has really only one activity "Complete some grade" | 22:12 |
| srichter | and grades are just workflow data | 22:13 |
| th1a | I used to have philosophical conversations like that with teachers. | 22:13 |
| th1a | They thought I was nuts. | 22:13 |
| srichter | (Note that this is not theoretical or philosophical at all; it is about fitting our problem correctly in the WfMC approach to workflow | 22:14 |
| srichter | if we get this right, we might not need persistent process definitions | 22:14 |
| th1a | "Is the description of a standard the standard itself, or is there some abstract ideal standard that has multiple descriptions?" | 22:14 |
| th1a | Well, that would simplify things. | 22:15 |
| srichter | yes :-) | 22:15 |
| srichter | (I work best under time pressure as you can see) | 22:15 |
| th1a | I was warned about that. | 22:15 |
| srichter | I so lazy that my brain automatically starts looking for the simplest way :-) | 22:15 |
| th1a | But I'm afraid I'm the same way. | 22:15 |
| srichter | sI/I am | 22:15 |
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| srichter | yes, now I think we are onto something | 22:16 |
| srichter | so the process is very simple | 22:16 |
| srichter | It has one activity: Complete a class | 22:16 |
| srichter | and when passing a class you simply arrive at the same activity, but with a different grade as part of the workflow data | 22:17 |
| srichter | when you fail, the grade is not changed | 22:17 |
| srichter | the workflow is done when no more grades are to be completed | 22:18 |
| srichter | I think this sounds much better and this saves us from the persistent workflow | 22:18 |
| th1a | But you might need to complete multiple classes to move to the next grade. | 22:18 |
| srichter | we have not modelled this part yet | 22:19 |
| srichter | but it will be the same | 22:19 |
| th1a | I thought what we planned just covered moving a student more or less manually through the school, from grade to grade. | 22:19 |
| srichter | yes | 22:19 |
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| th1a | It seems to me that you should work down from that end. | 22:20 |
| srichter | we are not involving the idea of classes yet | 22:20 |
| srichter | that's exactely what I am doing | 22:20 |
| th1a | OK. I misunderstood, then. | 22:20 |
| srichter | we are just moving students through grades | 22:20 |
| th1a | OK. Remember they can be withdrawn as well. | 22:20 |
| srichter | th1a: oh, I see; I mistyped above; I meant: Complete a Grade | 22:21 |
| srichter | (sorry) | 22:21 |
| srichter | withdrawn is just an outcome of an activity | 22:21 |
| th1a | I try to avoid using class to refer to anything but a software object. | 22:21 |
| srichter | maybe the workflow will be | 22:21 |
| srichter | Complete - (split) -> [Pass, Fail, Withdraw] | 22:22 |
| srichter | yes, that's right | 22:22 |
| srichter | then it is almost like a publishing workflow | 22:22 |
| th1a | It isn't too complicated. | 22:23 |
| th1a | Will there just be a sequence of levels stored separately? | 22:23 |
| srichter | Complete (Create Article); Fail (Reject); Pass (Publish); Withdraw (Withdraw) | 22:23 |
| srichter | th1a: right, but the important part is that Levels/Grades are stored as part of the application and *not* the workflow | 22:24 |
| th1a | OK. | 22:24 |
| srichter | (btw, I like the term "level" better, so I switch to that) | 22:25 |
| th1a | Grade also has too many meanings. | 22:26 |
| srichter | in fact, the completion of every level will be its own little workflow | 22:27 |
| srichter | right | 22:27 |
| srichter | but the pass action will move you to the next one, which is the responsibility of the application | 22:27 |
| th1a | That seems reasonable. | 22:28 |
| th1a | I'm sure we can find other uses for the persistent workflows... | 22:28 |
| srichter | yeah, I think my brain finally makes the transition from state-based to activity-based WFs | 22:28 |
| srichter | th1a: I am not so sure anymore; I'll complete implementing them when we have found one | 22:29 |
| srichter | Whenever something seems to be persistent, it will be part of the application, I think | 22:30 |
| th1a | OK. We'll work that out later. | 22:30 |
| srichter | yes | 22:30 |
| srichter | th1a: have levels been modeled already? | 22:32 |
| th1a | No. | 22:33 |
| th1a | Did I say I was going to do that? | 22:33 |
| srichter | ok, so I have to do this first then | 22:33 |
| srichter | no, I was just wondering | 22:33 |
| srichter | by modeled I mean "implemented" | 22:33 |
| srichter | alga: are you there? | 22:40 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4255: | 22:56 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Enter period names step. | 22:56 |
| alga | srichter: yep | 22:58 |
| srichter | alga: I have a question between using annotation and relations | 22:58 |
| alga | ok | 22:58 |
| srichter | alga: in my case I have to keep track of a student's history in a school | 22:59 |
| srichter | what of the two scenarios would you use in ST: | 22:59 |
| srichter | (1) Implement a history container that holds sort of all events and then use a relation to link students to specific events | 22:59 |
| srichter | (2) Have a usual annotation on the student that contains the history | 23:00 |
| srichter | (done) | 23:00 |
| alga | the first variant would allow to see the list of all students in some group in the past in an easier way... | 23:01 |
| srichter | how so? | 23:01 |
| alga | what do you mean by events, by the way? | 23:01 |
| srichter | this is about history events and not students | 23:01 |
| srichter | examples of events: Pass Level X, Fail Level Y, Withdraw from School | 23:02 |
| srichter | it is basically the students academic history | 23:02 |
| alga | ok | 23:02 |
| alga | I think annotations are better | 23:02 |
| alga | these events do not live without students | 23:02 |
| srichter | right | 23:02 |
| alga | groups, resources, persons are real world entities | 23:03 |
| srichter | right, so for a "level" I will create a container | 23:03 |
| alga | yep | 23:03 |
| srichter | (I still have to see how you do that in ST) | 23:03 |
| alga | nothing fancy -- zope containers | 23:05 |
| srichter | and you simply add them to the SchoolTool site? | 23:05 |
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| alga | kind of | 23:05 |
| alga | they are instantiated in the schooltool app __init__ | 23:06 |
| alga | and the app itself is a container | 23:06 |
| srichter | ah, I see it now in app.py | 23:06 |
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| alga | do you have more questions? I'm leaving soon. | 23:07 |
| srichter | alga: no, not today | 23:07 |
| srichter | though I think the ST app initialization could be done with adapters | 23:08 |
| alga | :) | 23:08 |
| srichter | or utilities | 23:08 |
| srichter | this way third party packages could hook into the creation | 23:08 |
| alga | yes | 23:09 |
| alga | we did not think of plugability much yet | 23:09 |
| srichter | I see; that's ok; I now know where to hook into | 23:09 |
| alga | ok, see you round | 23:09 |
| srichter | see ya | 23:09 |
| srichter | thanks and bye | 23:10 |
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| th1a | srichter: Keep track of your ideas about extensibility architecture. That's the next big step after this release. | 23:10 |
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| srichter | th1a: ok | 23:15 |
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| srichter | th1a: do we already have terms? | 23:26 |
| th1a | Yes. | 23:27 |
| srichter | can terms be already finished? | 23:27 |
| th1a | No. | 23:27 |
| srichter | :-( | 23:27 |
| th1a | They define periods of time. | 23:27 |
| srichter | darn, but that's okay | 23:27 |
| srichter | once the period is over, they are finished | 23:27 |
| th1a | Yes. | 23:28 |
| th1a | Well, did we literally write into the stories that the end of the term has to trigger a workflow event? | 23:28 |
| th1a | Or whatever the right terminology is. | 23:28 |
| srichter | no, but I just noticed that that makes most sense | 23:29 |
| th1a | Ultimately it should be in there. | 23:29 |
| srichter | okay, so here some background | 23:29 |
| srichter | we have this workflow activity called "Complete Level" | 23:29 |
| srichter | I have have to associate a work item with that activity | 23:29 |
| srichter | i.e. what work has to be done to complete this activity | 23:30 |
| srichter | for now, the term has to pass (later of course you have to complete all your courses) | 23:30 |
| srichter | mmh, maybe I just make it a simple work item and just allow the manager to say: "Complete Level" is done | 23:31 |
| th1a | Make it manual first. | 23:32 |
| srichter | right | 23:32 |
| th1a | Making it automatic seems like a lot of work for no clear payoff in the short run. | 23:32 |
| srichter | yeah | 23:33 |
| th1a | It will be a long time before people want SchoolTool doing that sort of thing all by itself ;-) | 23:33 |
| srichter | probably yes | 23:34 |
| * srichter starts to dig zope.wfmc | 23:38 | |
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