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| biffhero | th1a: am here now | 00:34 |
|---|---|---|
| biffhero | 1434, PDT | 00:35 |
| th1a | biffhero: Do you really have much data you need in your old SchoolBell? | 00:43 |
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| biffhero | ugh, really? | 00:45 |
| th1a | ugh? | 00:45 |
| biffhero | I presume you are saying that we are best off to blow it all away and start from scratch | 00:46 |
| biffhero | from the calendars directory of the dump.... | 00:47 |
| biffhero | cat * | wc -l | 00:47 |
| biffhero | 628 | 00:47 |
| biffhero | not a ton, that's for sure. | 00:47 |
| th1a | Um... yeah, I'm sorta saying that. | 00:48 |
| biffhero | I was thinking of going that direction, since it would get us up right away. And then putting everyone's data back in by hand (the future recurrings, anyway) | 00:48 |
| th1a | We have a system for doing the upgrades now. | 00:48 |
| biffhero | that's from 1.x as sources, eh? | 00:49 |
| th1a | 0.x to 1.0 was a big architectural shift. | 00:49 |
| biffhero | the export worked fine. Does the current upgrade game work with .ics data at alL? | 00:49 |
| th1a | Yes 1.0 onward will be systematic. | 00:49 |
| th1a | No export/import needed from now on either. | 00:50 |
| biffhero | I have a user with a bunch of the calendars in their mozilla calendar app, we are trying to print that, so I can re-enter all of the calendar entries | 00:57 |
| th1a | Well, if you have the .ics files, or even just have them in Mozilla calendar you can use those on the new server. | 00:58 |
| th1a | You shouldn't have to do it manually. | 00:58 |
| th1a | The problem is with the import script, not with importing, right? | 00:58 |
| biffhero | run-import.sh dies, that is correct. I haven't gone beyond that. | 00:59 |
| biffhero | I have the .ics files for the people definitions, as well. | 00:59 |
| th1a | The problem is just with the script itself. | 00:59 |
| biffhero | person.*.ics, group.*.ics, and group.00000?.ics | 01:00 |
| biffhero | yeah, the python import script | 01:00 |
| th1a | Although... one thing we keep forgetting to add is a simple form to upload a .ics file directly through the web. | 01:00 |
| biffhero | schoolbell-import.py | 01:00 |
| biffhero | schoolbell-import.py is what dies. how can I import a .ics file? | 01:01 |
| biffhero | I don't know if we can import, I don't know how to do that. | 01:01 |
| th1a | If I was doing it, I would probably just import them into Mozilla calendar and then sync from there. | 01:02 |
| biffhero | ok, that sounds good, but of course, it has to be done after I set up the users, or else schoolbell will be receiving data for people it doesn't know about. Right? | 01:02 |
| th1a | Yes. | 01:02 |
| th1a | We just didn't have enough real users of SchoolBell 0.x to spend too much time on these scripts. | 01:03 |
| biffhero | and do you think that there is a way for mozilla to directly import the .ics files? (I use the web interface soley) | 01:03 |
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| th1a | You could write a script that would PUT the ics calendars over HTTP. | 01:04 |
| biffhero | it accepts them that way | 01:05 |
| biffhero | it accepts them that way? | 01:05 |
| th1a | That's all that iCal or Moz Calendar is doing. Unless maybe they're POST'ed? | 01:05 |
| th1a | I'm a bit annoyed because it seems like the documentation of our web services has disappeared completely. At least I can't find it. | 01:11 |
| biffhero | does the new version work with a web interface? | 01:12 |
| th1a | Yes, of course. | 01:12 |
| biffhero | thx | 01:12 |
| th1a | We just don't have a form that says "Select an .ics file to upload," which we should. | 01:12 |
| biffhero | heh. | 01:13 |
| th1a | Did I mention you won't have to do this again ;-)\ | 01:14 |
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| th1a | ;-) | 01:14 |
| biffhero | is it possible to create accounts via an .ics file upload? That's the part I am trying to avoid. If it is unavoidable, then so be it. I now have about 80% of the appointment data, and can re-enter that. | 01:14 |
| th1a | You can create the accounts with a text file. | 01:15 |
| biffhero | oh? | 01:15 |
| jelkner | ok, paul, what is your question about variable naming conventions? | 01:15 |
| th1a | Start up the new server and go to /persons and 'import persons' | 01:15 |
| jelkner | i'm sure they have practices within schooltool that might prove helpful | 01:15 |
| th1a | Must go pick up dinner. | 01:15 |
| biffhero | is there a definition of the persons data? | 01:15 |
| pcardune | a non-sequitor: is ICourseCompetenciesTemplateWriter too long a name for an interface? (this is a somewhat rhetorical question) | 01:15 |
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| jelkner | we should follow existing conventions whenever possible | 01:15 |
| th1a|dinner | biffhero: yes. | 01:16 |
| biffhero | where? | 01:16 |
| biffhero | on that page? | 01:16 |
| jelkner | pcardune: the most important thing is to make the code readable and self documenting | 01:17 |
| eldar | yeah, but we have to be able to write it easily too though | 01:17 |
| pcardune | jelkner: but when do you cross the line between self documenting and cumbersome | 01:17 |
| jelkner | if you use the right tool (george will try to get you all to use emacs, then typing long names is not an issue ;-) | 01:17 |
| jelkner | let's wait for brian and george to way in on this | 01:18 |
| pcardune | jelkner, it is an issue when you only have 80 characters per line to work with... | 01:18 |
| eldar | i don't think we need course in the name | 01:18 |
| eldar | just competency | 01:18 |
| eldar | ies* | 01:19 |
| jelkner | ICompetencyWriter | 01:19 |
| jelkner | ? | 01:19 |
| eldar | by template pauls means a competency groups | 01:19 |
| eldar | no s | 01:19 |
| pcardune | jelkner, I suggest you do a cvs checkout of candotoo from the sourceforge | 01:19 |
| pcardune | and see what I've done so far | 01:20 |
| jelkner | is this a schooltool integrated version? | 01:20 |
| pcardune | jelkner, no | 01:20 |
| pcardune | jelkner, this is what i did without an internet connection while on the cruise and in france | 01:21 |
| jelkner | so how do i run it? | 01:21 |
| jelkner | is it zope3? | 01:22 |
| pcardune | jelkner, yes | 01:22 |
| pcardune | jelkner, it works the same way as timeclock did | 01:22 |
| jelkner | ok, so i need a zope3 instance to run it | 01:22 |
| eldar | brian gave a starter suggestion, i forgot to tell | 01:23 |
| eldar | we should try to integrate what you have so far with his suggestions | 01:24 |
| eldar | he said: you need ICompetency and ICompetencyGroup interfaces, some sort of relationship between ICompetency and ICompetencyGroup (see schoolbell.app.membership), a relationship between ICourse and ICompetency/ICompetencyGroups, and a container for ICompetency and ICompentencyGroups | 01:25 |
| * eldar doesn't like the font color of his messages | 01:25 | |
| eldar | paul you with me | 01:26 |
| eldar | ? | 01:26 |
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| jelkner | bskahan: hi brian! | 01:33 |
| bskahan | hi all | 01:33 |
| bskahan | how's it going? | 01:34 |
| jelkner | have you met paul carduner? | 01:34 |
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| jelkner | aka pcardune | 01:34 |
| bskahan | not really, hey paul | 01:34 |
| pcardune___ | hello | 01:34 |
| jelkner | paul and eldar wrote the first version of cando | 01:34 |
| jelkner | and will be the ones primarily writing the schooltool version | 01:34 |
| pcardune___ | you can thank senegalese power grid for that brief interlude... | 01:34 |
| bskahan | cool | 01:35 |
| jelkner | they had some question about naming conventions for you | 01:35 |
| bskahan | shoot | 01:35 |
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| bskahan | in general we follow pep 8 | 01:36 |
| jelkner | paul? | 01:36 |
| pcardune___ | well, actually, I was just wondering what you thought of the naming convention i used for the mini zope3 implementation i have already done | 01:37 |
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| * eldafar is successfully using gaim with irc :D | 01:37 | |
| pcardune___ | let me see if i can find a link to the interface file... | 01:37 |
| bskahan | hey eldafar | 01:38 |
| eldafar | hi ^^ | 01:38 |
| th1a | jelkner: You're going to be at NECC, right? | 01:39 |
| pcardune___ | http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/cando/candotoo/interfaces.py?rev=1.1.1.1&view=markup | 01:40 |
| jelkner | thla: indeed | 01:40 |
| jelkner | eldar will be with us | 01:40 |
| * eldafar is going to be there too | 01:40 | |
| th1a | Excellent. | 01:41 |
| jelkner | and he will be working on cando | 01:41 |
| th1a | So we'll have higher bandwidth communication in a few days. | 01:41 |
| bskahan | pcardune___: looks pretty close | 01:41 |
| bskahan | skills = List( | 01:41 |
| bskahan | title=u"list of skill objects", | 01:41 |
| bskahan | value_type=Object( | 01:41 |
| bskahan | title=u"skill object", | 01:41 |
| bskahan | schema=ISkillTemplate | 01:41 |
| bskahan | ) | 01:41 |
| bskahan | ) | 01:41 |
| bskahan | has more whitespace than in would in schooltool | 01:41 |
| pcardune___ | but beyond this, I have a number of zope specific questions about what new features of zope3 are worth using and to what extent | 01:42 |
| bskahan | docstrings in schooltool are pretty much all: | 01:42 |
| bskahan | """Short sentence with . | 01:42 |
| bskahan | 01:42 | |
| bskahan | rest of comment | 01:42 |
| bskahan | """ | 01:42 |
| bskahan | what zope3 questions? | 01:44 |
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| pcardune___ | I followed the style of the code in the book "Web Component Development with Zope 3" | 01:44 |
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| * bskahan nods | 01:45 | |
| pcardune___ | im glad you copy and pasted that particular portion... | 01:46 |
| pcardune___ | Zope3 contains machinery for generating forms based on schema | 01:46 |
| pcardune___ | this seems to be to basic for anything beyond simple text fields or one dimensional lists, is this the case? | 01:46 |
| pcardune___ | in the book, they talked about writing custom views for generating these forms, is that how schooltool does data input? | 01:46 |
| bskahan | its not used in schooltool for anything else, but I don't think we're using the built in schema generation to its full capacity | 01:47 |
| th1a | I expect that we'll improve our support for autogenerating forms in the future. | 01:47 |
| bskahan | you can get around using the generated forms pretty easily, but you lose error handling and validation or have to write it yourself | 01:48 |
| bskahan | I'd rather we used the builtin form methods more, not less | 01:48 |
| th1a | This is the kind of issue we have to resolve in the process of moving from a calendar app to a more general administrative framework. | 01:49 |
| bskahan | a good example, the form for sections and the form for groups are very similar in tal, but the section have an additional selection field that automagically gets generated and handled | 01:50 |
| th1a | And yes, in this case we want to be more plainly Zope3-ish. | 01:50 |
| th1a | I *think* bskahan and I are on the same wavelength here. | 01:51 |
| eldafar | paul is having irc problems and your responses are not getting through, i did send all of them, but i think it'll take him a little time to recover | 01:51 |
| bskahan | th1a: yeah, I think so | 01:52 |
| eldafar | ok, i have a question about relating objects | 01:53 |
| eldafar | i don't really get the thing you have with the relation in schoolbell | 01:53 |
| bskahan | eldafar: its a good way to describe many-to-many relationships | 01:53 |
| eldafar | i'm trying to figure out how to relate icompetency with something that implements icompetencyholder | 01:53 |
| th1a | Relationships let you make webs instead of just trees. | 01:54 |
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| pcardune_gaim | ok, lets try this on gaim | 01:54 |
| bskahan | eldafar: are you looking for a place to contain/store things, or just relate them? | 01:55 |
| eldafar | i'm getting your message, means it's working fine | 01:55 |
| eldafar | both | 01:55 |
| bskahan | eldafar: for 1-many or 1-1 relationships (like a single ICompetencyContainer that holds many ICompetencyGoals) you can just use a container | 01:56 |
| bskahan | but to relate the many ICompetencyGoals with many diferent students you'd want a web of relationships | 01:57 |
| eldafar | i see | 01:57 |
| th1a | Right. The competencies themselves are a tree. | 01:57 |
| th1a | But they have other relationships to lots of other things outside their tree. | 01:57 |
| pcardune_gaim | teachers, sections, courses, students... | 01:58 |
| eldafar | so each competency would be in a net with all the students that are related to it | 01:58 |
| eldafar | net = web | 01:58 |
| bskahan | 2 possible competencies: Read, Multiply | 01:59 |
| bskahan | 4 students, joe, john, sally, beth | 01:59 |
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| bskahan | eldafar: yes | 01:59 |
| eldafar | i see, now it makes sense theoretically | 02:00 |
| pcardune_gaim | I'm not sure that is how we want to do it though | 02:00 |
| eldafar | why not? | 02:01 |
| eldafar | the competencies would be individuals object that are parts of different trees | 02:01 |
| eldafar | and they would also be parts of webs with students | 02:01 |
| bskahan | for handling different levels of competency, eg. "Read a litle", you could have a diffenent URIObjects or you could just annotate the relationship | 02:01 |
| th1a | I think you need "CompetencyEvaluation" objects, too. | 02:02 |
| th1a | To tie the necessary objects together. | 02:02 |
| th1a | The Competency Evaluation connects to the student, the evaluator, the standard, the score and any comments (if you've got them). | 02:03 |
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| gpaci | Hey, everybody. | 02:03 |
| eldafar | i don't understand the "you could have a diffenent URIObjects or you could just annotate the relationship" part | 02:03 |
| eldafar | hi george ^^ | 02:04 |
| th1a | Hi, gpaci. | 02:04 |
| pcardune_gaim | th1a: now I'm beginning to see what you mean, and it does make sense to do it that way | 02:04 |
| bskahan | hi gpaci | 02:04 |
| pcardune_gaim | hello gpaci | 02:04 |
| th1a | It is really important also that the meaning of scores or levels are explicitly defined. | 02:04 |
| bskahan | roleA = StudentGettingEvaluated, roleB = SkillBeingEvaluated? | 02:05 |
| th1a | You don't want to just use a character or number "A" or "3" You need to be pointing to an object that describes the meaning of the score. | 02:05 |
| pcardune_gaim | well, as far as VA state is concerned a score is either 1 through 5, one being totally competent, and and 5 being not at all competent | 02:06 |
| eldafar | can't we have CompetencyEvaluation take care of defining the score meaning? | 02:06 |
| bskahan | th1a: just thinking of the roles in the relationship | 02:07 |
| eldafar | it's the other way around, paul | 02:07 |
| eldafar | welsh said 5-1, 5 is the highest | 02:07 |
| pcardune_gaim | eldafar: i thought we changed it to be the other way around because that made more sense, but in actual fact it is the other way around... confusing? | 02:07 |
| th1a | A score is a simple enough object, and it is worth having it. | 02:08 |
| eldafar | sure | 02:08 |
| pcardune_gaim | we want to compartmentalize | 02:08 |
| eldafar | so so far we've got | 02:08 |
| * th1a spent more time thinking about this problem last year than you can possibly imagine. | 02:08 | |
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| * th1a is a little obsessive. | 02:09 | |
| eldafar | we all are ^.^ | 02:09 |
| pcardune_gaim | so, to follow the super generalized pattern of schooltool... the objects would include: | 02:10 |
| pcardune_gaim | a competencyEvaluation object | 02:10 |
| eldafar | ICompetency, ICompetencyContainer, ICompetencyContainer, ICompetencyEvaluation, IScore | 02:10 |
| pcardune_gaim | this is linked to a person who is an evaluator | 02:10 |
| pcardune_gaim | also linked to another person who is being evaluated | 02:10 |
| pcardune_gaim | linked to some kind of standard upon which the person is being evaluated | 02:11 |
| bskahan | I'd just tag the evaluator as an attribute on the ICompetencyEvaluation | 02:11 |
| th1a | One or more evaluators, perhaps. | 02:11 |
| gpaci | help userhost | 02:11 |
| th1a | bskahan: Keep it a relationship, I'd say. | 02:11 |
| bskahan | unless you need more than one evaluator ... :\ | 02:11 |
| pcardune_gaim | also linked to some kind of scoring system | 02:11 |
| jelkner | we do need more than one | 02:12 |
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| jelkner | in fact, the highest level of competency in the virginia scale is "can teach others" | 02:12 |
| pcardune_gaim | I took a course on object oriented design... 1st year college level... and it never went in to stuff like this... this will be cool | 02:13 |
| jelkner | dave welsh and i both want students at this level to be able to evaluate their peers on those compentcies for which they have attained the "can teach others" level | 02:13 |
| th1a | Cando doesn't have to refer to the assignment or work itself, does it? | 02:13 |
| pcardune_gaim | what about adaptors? | 02:13 |
| jelkner | no | 02:13 |
| jelkner | thla: well, i answered too fast | 02:14 |
| jelkner | we want student portfolios linked to competencies | 02:14 |
| pcardune_gaim | could we have an adaptor called IEvaluator which gives an IPerson the ability to evaluate someone? | 02:14 |
| jelkner | but the score does not directly link to the portfolio | 02:14 |
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| bskahan | pcardune___: yes | 02:15 |
| th1a | But the Competency Evaluation could have an optional URL attribute pointing to the work in the Portfolio? | 02:16 |
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| eldafar | yeah, definitely | 02:16 |
| pcardune_gaim | we also want links from the standard to curriculum | 02:17 |
| eldafar | so each competency would have a url attr pointing to official description too | 02:18 |
| gltyaschrgd | a search feature for each statistic would be nice | 02:18 |
| th1a | Ultimately, all these functions will be assimilated into SchoolTool. | 02:19 |
| bskahan | I can't find it now, Jim Fulton had a presentation with a gentle introduction to adapters from pyCon2005 | 02:19 |
| bskahan | I know its on the web somewhere | 02:19 |
| gltyaschrgd | everything's on the web somewhere, it's just a matter of finding it | 02:19 |
| pcardune_gaim | bskahan: that would be very helpful | 02:19 |
| bskahan | ask in #zope3-dev, someone there might know | 02:20 |
| pcardune_gaim | so how do we go about assimilating these things into schooltool | 02:20 |
| th1a | Probably you need to have a complete representation of the competencies and their descriptions in the Cando system. | 02:20 |
| th1a | All in good time... | 02:20 |
| th1a | We can't do everything at once. | 02:21 |
| eldafar | so do we just build cando as a side package in /src directory for now? | 02:21 |
| pcardune_gaim | is there a way to do it where we dont have to edit any school tool files, but just add a cando folder to the src directory? | 02:21 |
| pcardune_gaim | or atleast make very few changes to schooltool files | 02:21 |
| bskahan | no | 02:21 |
| eldafar | no to which question? | 02:21 |
| bskahan | the last one | 02:21 |
| bskahan | if your very tricky you can modify very few schooltool files | 02:22 |
| th1a | pcardune_gaim: We'll be working on making things more modular once we get the next calendaring release out in August. | 02:22 |
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| pcardune_gaim | th1a: you are suggesting we develope it seperately and integrate later then, but while still making use of the schooltool and schoolbell interfaces/objects? | 02:23 |
| bskahan | its going to be more difficult though, using adaptation and annotation alot | 02:23 |
| dwoo | Quick Question: Does schooltool have any built-in ways of displaying dictionaries? | 02:23 |
| * bskahan would branch from a point in schooltool | 02:23 | |
| bskahan | then merge changes back into the framework as it gets fleshed out | 02:23 |
| gltyaschrgd | i think the best approach is making the cando seperately, and wait for the most complete and stable release of schooltool before integrating it | 02:24 |
| eldafar | we have a deadline to meet | 02:24 |
| bskahan | that's why I'd just branch | 02:24 |
| eldafar | sure | 02:24 |
| bskahan | saves the trouble of recreating all the student/schedule/security/course/section structure | 02:25 |
| th1a | That's the tradeoff. | 02:25 |
| gltyaschrgd | possibly adding a function to schooltool that can take a seperately programmed application in a specific format and integrate it effectively | 02:25 |
| th1a | The really hard part is already done via Zope3's component architecture. | 02:26 |
| gltyaschrgd | what's the deadline? | 02:26 |
| eldafar | the core needs to be done by july 19 | 02:26 |
| eldafar | besides | 02:26 |
| th1a | I agree with bskahan that working from a branch is probably you're best bet. | 02:26 |
| th1a | your | 02:27 |
| gltyaschrgd | true | 02:27 |
| eldafar | (19:22:24) th1a said: We'll be working on making things more modular once we get the next calendaring release out in Augus | 02:27 |
| pcardune_gaim | that sounds good to me | 02:27 |
| bskahan | grab 0.10, work from there | 02:27 |
| eldafar | im good too | 02:27 |
| bskahan | I have to run folks | 02:28 |
| th1a | Thanks bskahan. | 02:28 |
| eldafar | thank you | 02:28 |
| gltyaschrgd | ty | 02:28 |
| eldafar | see you some time later | 02:28 |
| bskahan | np, good luck guys, ttyl | 02:28 |
| gltyaschrgd | ttyl | 02:29 |
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| pcardune_gaim | bye | 02:29 |
| gltyaschrgd | an idea for cando is a format with many different modules | 02:30 |
| gltyaschrgd | like, curriculum, sceduling, grading | 02:31 |
| gltyaschrgd | admin, teachers, student, parent level acess | 02:31 |
| eldafar | scheduling is taken care of by schooltool | 02:31 |
| gltyaschrgd | access* | 02:31 |
| gltyaschrgd | ok | 02:31 |
| eldafar | admin, teachers, students are all persons with different permissions | 02:31 |
| pcardune_gaim | all of that would be done by the administrators of schooltool/cando | 02:32 |
| pcardune_gaim | and wouldn't be explicitly coded into cando | 02:32 |
| gltyaschrgd | i think an add-on based format would make it easier to create, so instead of writing everything at once, each module could be programmed seperately | 02:32 |
| gltyaschrgd | ok | 02:32 |
| eldafar | paul login to aimn | 02:33 |
| th1a | SchoolTool is intended to be very modular. | 02:33 |
| th1a | That's why we use Zope3. | 02:33 |
| th1a | It just isn't totally modular now because we've had to concentrate on producing something that schools can actually use in the fall. | 02:34 |
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| th1a | I would expect some parts of CanDo to become part of the standard distribution of SchoolTool. | 02:35 |
| gltyaschrgd | that would be nice | 02:35 |
| gltyaschrgd | otherwise, we'd need a complete installation tool for cando | 02:35 |
| pcardune_gaim | just like in schooltool, there is no such thing as Instructors or students... at least not that i have seen... it is up to the admin to create those two groups | 02:36 |
| pcardune_gaim | and the admin could break it up even further and make freshman, sophomore, etc groups... | 02:36 |
| eldafar | we could have cando as an optional package | 02:36 |
| eldafar | because not everyone would want to have cando as a part of their schooltool | 02:36 |
| gltyaschrgd | right | 02:36 |
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| pcardune___ | what did i miss? | 02:39 |
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| th1a | Not a thing. | 02:40 |
| pcardune___ | so is this xpdc thing happening over in arlington yet? | 02:41 |
| gltyaschrgd | not that i know of | 02:42 |
| kashif | i don't think so | 02:42 |
| gpaci | There are a bunch of us gathered in 217 at Yorktown High. | 02:45 |
| gpaci | Right now. Hunched over IRC. | 02:45 |
| gltyaschrgd | yep | 02:45 |
| kashif | yup yup | 02:45 |
| ffsnoopy | guess im not missing much eh? | 02:45 |
| gltyaschrgd | not at all | 02:45 |
| pcardune___ | does anyone want to draw a diagram on dia of what we have talked about? | 02:45 |
| dwoo | No, not really, no. | 02:46 |
| gpaci | Where the heck are you, Mitch? | 02:46 |
| ffsnoopy | at home | 02:46 |
| ffsnoopy | something came up | 02:46 |
| ffsnoopy | and i couldnt come | 02:46 |
| gltyaschrgd | come on over | 02:46 |
| gltyaschrgd | ok | 02:46 |
| gpaci | Bummer. | 02:46 |
| eldafar | ok sure, i'll do it on the board | 02:46 |
| eldafar | or i'll attempt to | 02:46 |
| ffsnoopy | but if all we're doing is IRCing...im right here | 02:46 |
| gpaci | Too bad I didn't bring my camera. | 02:46 |
| pcardune___ | don't feel left out... i didn't go either | 02:46 |
| kashif | we'll leave it up there | 02:46 |
| gpaci | We just had a small caucus here, during which we said: | 02:47 |
| gpaci | There are basically two questions: (1) Is the stuff we write going to live on the schooltool svn server? | 02:47 |
| th1a | I've got a diagram of my old system: http://www.schooltool.org/Members/hoffman/images/eval-diagram.png | 02:47 |
| gpaci | (2) As we develop cando, how often do we want to pull updates of schooltool? | 02:47 |
| gltyaschrgd | i think i want to get updates as soon as they come out and are widely implemented | 02:48 |
| th1a | I think all the changes in the next couple months are calendaring related, so not very relevant to your work. | 02:48 |
| gpaci | There's agreement on (2): we want to get the changes to schooltool as they happen (at least daily), so we don't have a big integration hassle at the end. | 02:48 |
| kashif | regular updates might require lot of work | 02:48 |
| th1a | We're shooting for a September/October release that will make SchoolTool a more stable framework. | 02:49 |
| kashif | or atleast regular | 02:49 |
| th1a | I don't know if I should say "frozen API" at this point. | 02:49 |
| pcardune___ | th1a, in your diagram, what does ps: and dc: mean? | 02:49 |
| th1a | That's an RDF model, so they're xml namespaces. | 02:50 |
| th1a | dc = dublin core | 02:50 |
| th1a | ps = an RDF schema for performance standard evaluations. | 02:50 |
| pcardune___ | dublin core... i skipped over that section in the book | 02:51 |
| th1a | Just a standard set of metadata. | 02:51 |
| th1a | Title, Description, Creator, etc. | 02:51 |
| gpaci | More work? | 02:52 |
| th1a | If you're in a hurry I'd bypass it. | 02:52 |
| th1a | My impression is that it takes a little while to grok how Zope3 does dublin core. | 02:52 |
| gpaci | (Sorry, I was replying to Kashif.) | 02:52 |
| kashif | I mean regular | 02:53 |
| gpaci | Give me the whole thought again... | 02:53 |
| eldafar | there is an opposition among us | 02:53 |
| th1a | I think you're going to have to do one big integration, because things will change *fast* once they start changing. | 02:53 |
| eldafar | paul and i want to have cando on our cvs for now | 02:54 |
| pcardune___ | well I am going to draw up a diagram of which will look a lot like th1a's but maybe with different names | 02:54 |
| kashif | if we update it regularly, like daily, then we have to meet everyday. | 02:54 |
| eldafar | jeff and the rest would like to be it in your* so to speak, svn | 02:54 |
| th1a | pcardune__: one small thing -- SchoolTool's relationships are two way. | 02:54 |
| pcardune___ | eldafar, I thought that was the plan? who is opposing us? | 02:54 |
| eldafar | jeff | 02:55 |
| eldafar | and george | 02:55 |
| eldafar | and the rest | 02:55 |
| eldafar | we're alone :( | 02:55 |
| th1a | Hm? I think it would be easier at this point for you guys to work from your own repository. | 02:55 |
| ffsnoopy | yes it would | 02:55 |
| pcardune___ | eldafar, where do they propose putting it? | 02:55 |
| th1a | And in August/September we'll have like five full time developers moving around large chunks of SchoolTool. I wouldn't try to keep up with that every day. | 02:56 |
| gpaci | kashif: if you're not working one day, you don't update that day. | 02:57 |
| gltyaschrgd | how about every week? | 02:57 |
| jelkner | it not a matter of keeping up with all the changes | 02:57 |
| jelkner | we svn up | 02:57 |
| jelkner | run our tests | 02:57 |
| jelkner | if nothing is broke, we go about our business | 02:57 |
| jelkner | but if something is broke, we fix it now, rather than later | 02:57 |
| th1a | The think is, there's no guarantee we'll actually be taking the shortest distance between two points when we're making those changes. | 02:58 |
| th1a | think/thing | 02:58 |
| gltyaschrgd | in order to be able to effectively update often, we'll have to agree on a standard format for data storage early, in order to avoid having to move data around during updates | 02:58 |
| th1a | Anyway, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. | 02:58 |
| gpaci | You think you'll be backtracking? | 02:58 |
| gpaci | JElkner's saying the only two candidates for where to keep the CanDo code are SourceForge or SchoolTool's repository. | 03:00 |
| jelkner | we have a cando repository on sourceforge | 03:00 |
| th1a | If you keep it in our repository there is a bit of paperwork that would have to be done. | 03:00 |
| gpaci | (th1a: I liked your talk on ITConversations.) | 03:01 |
| gltyaschrgd | idea: link the 2 repositories so that a change on one will cause the other to update | 03:01 |
| eldafar | which is one of the reasons we're not having it on schooltool repository | 03:01 |
| th1a | gpaci: Thanks! We had to squeeze a lot into 15 minutes. | 03:01 |
| th1a | Does sf have svn yet? | 03:01 |
| eldafar | glt: that'd be even more problematic | 03:01 |
| jelkner | thla: no, only cvs | 03:02 |
| th1a | I really think you guys should just work from our releases. | 03:02 |
| gpaci | How often will you be releasing (I missed the beginning). | 03:03 |
| gpaci | ? | 03:03 |
| pcardune___ | well, you all know my position | 03:03 |
| gpaci | Yep: Senegal. | 03:03 |
| th1a | Early August and then late September/October. | 03:03 |
| gpaci | So about every two months. | 03:03 |
| gpaci | What's to stop us from starting off trying to keep up with you, and lagging if it's too tough? | 03:04 |
| th1a | I'm just saying that between those two, it is going to be a BIG rearrangement, which will then stabilize considerably through the spring, if all goes as planned. | 03:04 |
| th1a | gpaci: That's probably fine... I think we've beaten this into the ground by now. | 03:05 |
| gpaci | All the more reason to digest the big rearrangement in 1- or 2-day bites. | 03:05 |
| gpaci | OK. Moving on seems like the popular move now.... | 03:06 |
| ffsnoopy | dinner, i'll be away for a little while | 03:06 |
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| pcardune___ | This will also mean not updating zope... | 03:06 |
| pcardune___ | unless we can figure out how to run schooltool from a zope instance rather than the schooltool-server.py script | 03:07 |
| th1a | We will stabilize on Zope 3.1 asap. | 03:07 |
| pcardune___ | i personally thinking running schooltool from a zope instance is a good idea, what do others think of this | 03:08 |
| * eldafar agrees | 03:08 | |
| th1a | I'm not sure why it is causing you such trouble. | 03:09 |
| gpaci | pcardune__: I had schooltool running from a Zope instance a couple days ago. | 03:09 |
| th1a | Good. | 03:09 |
| pcardune___ | i haven't played with it much yet, just followed what you (gpaci) put up on the wiki... it didn't work, i cant remember the error | 03:10 |
| gpaci | pcardune__: ... and now, oddly, it doesn't: welcome.stx is missing. | 03:12 |
| pcardune___ | gpaci, interesting | 03:12 |
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| gpaci | Let me go on record as hating XML and all it (actually) stands for. | 03:13 |
| pcardune___ | i like it but find it to be a bit cumbersome... why can't the rest of the world adopt indentation as defining blocks? | 03:14 |
| jelkner | ok, help me out here... | 03:15 |
| gpaci | I think I found the problem: I was working under /tmp, which is, well, only temporary.... | 03:15 |
| jelkner | paul and eldar, do you feel like you know how to proceed with cando during the next week? | 03:15 |
| pcardune___ | jelkner, yes absolutely | 03:16 |
| jelkner | great! | 03:16 |
| jelkner | cause july 19 is not far away | 03:17 |
| pcardune___ | it will take a slightly more thurough understanding of schooltool and zope... but short answer: yes | 03:17 |
| jelkner | thla: i found out that dave welsh will be at necc | 03:17 |
| th1a | ? | 03:17 |
| jelkner | dave is cando's main customer | 03:17 |
| jelkner | he will be giving talks in at least 3 career and tech conferences in august about it | 03:18 |
| gpaci | And of course my .svn/entries file was removed, so I can't just pull an update. Sigh. | 03:18 |
| jelkner | july 19 is the first one | 03:18 |
| th1a | Well, that's interesting. | 03:18 |
| jelkner | his job description for next year changed so that he can spend time getting the whole arlington career center trainined in the use of cando next fall | 03:19 |
| jelkner | so he *really* needs it to work soon | 03:19 |
| jelkner | he is happy with the old version | 03:19 |
| pcardune___ | we should really make an official release of the old version at some point... | 03:20 |
| jelkner | but the old version is a dead end, and if we get everyone using it we will have trouble switching | 03:20 |
| pcardune___ | .1 | 03:20 |
| jelkner | i don't want to go down that road | 03:20 |
| pcardune___ | he he he | 03:20 |
| gpaci | Structured Text must also die. | 03:20 |
| eldafar | .x? | 03:20 |
| th1a | That way lies madness. | 03:20 |
| jelkner | that's why i want the new cando to do what the old one cando ;-) by july 19 | 03:21 |
| jelkner | eldar, paul, do you have everything you need from the folks here to move forward? | 03:23 |
| jelkner | folks, my wife is coming to pick me up, i gotta run... | 03:25 |
| eldafar | yeah for right now | 03:25 |
| eldafar | bai bai | 03:25 |
| pcardune___ | yep | 03:25 |
| jelkner | thla: thanks for meeting with us | 03:26 |
| pcardune___ | we will be back though | 03:26 |
| pcardune___ | to ask about the front end | 03:26 |
| jelkner | can we do this again in 2 weeks? | 03:26 |
| eldafar | or anything that comes up | 03:26 |
| pcardune___ | why not sooner? | 03:26 |
| eldafar | next week? | 03:26 |
| jelkner | pcardune__: i imagine you'll be hanging out a lot | 03:26 |
| jelkner | i just ment for our next xp code fest | 03:27 |
| pcardune___ | oh, ok | 03:27 |
| jelkner | cya | 03:28 |
| th1a | I'll try to switch my nick when I'm not actually here. | 03:28 |
| th1a | See you in Philly, jelkner. | 03:28 |
| pcardune___ | bye jelkner | 03:28 |
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| eldafar | bye tom, thank you | 03:29 |
| eldafar | oh you're not leaving | 03:29 |
| eldafar | jeff is, oops | 03:29 |
| gpaci | who | 03:30 |
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| eldafar | alright, good night everyone | 03:41 |
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| gpaci | I've checked out and built schooltool and Zope3 again. Now I'm trying to run one under the other... | 03:44 |
| gpaci | OK: I've got schooltool running under Zope3 (again). | 03:46 |
| pcardune___ | in a Zope instance? | 03:47 |
| gpaci | And schooltool running standalone. | 03:47 |
| gpaci | I didn't make a Zope instance; I used the stuff inside the checked-out Zope3 folder. | 03:48 |
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| gpaci | (And added "path ../src" to zope.conf.in .) | 03:48 |
| gpaci | I followed the instructions on the Wiki to the letter. | 03:48 |
| gpaci | What error do you get, pcardune? | 03:48 |
| gpaci | Oh, yeah: what platform are you on? Linux? | 03:50 |
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| pcardune | yeah, i did that to.... | 03:51 |
| pcardune | is that all you did? | 03:51 |
| pcardune | fedorca core 3 | 03:51 |
| pcardune | running python2.4 | 03:52 |
| gpaci | Hm. I'm on OSX 10.3, using python2.3 . | 03:55 |
| gpaci | Do you have libxml2-python in your PYTHONPATH ? | 03:55 |
| gpaci | The actual error message would be an excellent place to start. | 03:56 |
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| pcardune | it probably has to do with python2.3 | 04:02 |
| pcardune | python2.4* | 04:02 |
| gpaci | It's a prime suspect. Let me try it later with python2.4 and get back to you. | 04:11 |
| gpaci | What's your email? | 04:11 |
| th1a | It should work with 2.3. You might need to tweak the Makefile, though. | 04:12 |
| ffsnoopy | i had to tweak the makefile for 2.4 | 04:13 |
| gpaci | Aha: now we're getting somewhere. | 04:16 |
| gpaci | (Of course, you could just use 2.3.) | 04:16 |
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| biffhero | the new schoolbell seems lots faster than the 0.x that I was using before. woo hoo! | 05:08 |
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| biffhero | I am having problems with the web interface to the new schoolbell | 05:22 |
| biffhero | how do I tell it to display times other than 0800-1800. I have things which start at 1900 and 2000 some times | 05:23 |
| biffhero | wait, the problem looked to be that when I used the manager user to change the preferences (time zone and weekstartson:), they didn't take. That caused problems with my perception of the calendars | 05:25 |
| biffhero | stink! still not working. maybe it is the caching in my browser, konqueror. | 05:28 |
| biffhero | ok, not my browser. this web interface is killing me. | 05:31 |
| th1a | If you manually change the time of an event in the add form to 1900 or 2000, don't they then show up? | 05:32 |
| biffhero | if you go to "view weekly calendar", you can click on an appt, and it comes up as editable. If you go to "view monthly calendar", and click on an appt, it takes you to the daily view for that day, and if they are out of the time for the day, you can't edit them. | 05:33 |
| biffhero | it is inconsistent to get to the add form for events which already exist, but are outside the area. now it is showing me more time on this day, but that's _after_ I set the appt to be 1500-1700, vs the 2000-2200 it was before | 05:34 |
| biffhero | now the daily form is showing me 0800-2300 | 05:34 |
| th1a | Hm... | 05:35 |
| biffhero | it was showing me 0800-2300 when the item was from 1500-1700. I changed it to be 2000-2200, and the form is back to showing me 0800-1800 again | 05:35 |
| biffhero | I think I know why, it has to do with my timezone setup | 05:36 |
| th1a | Yeah. Timezones. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. | 05:36 |
| biffhero | even though I edited the task to be 2000-2200, recurring every Thu., they show up on Fri in the small left-hand calendars. | 05:37 |
| th1a | I think it would be nice to have a different calendar template that handles evening events better. | 05:37 |
| biffhero | so I am goign to nuke the appt, see if creating it as this user (it was first created as manager for this user, when this user was set up as UTC (even though manager had set this user to be in PDT)) makes a difference | 05:38 |
| th1a | OK. | 05:38 |
| biffhero | I presume that timezones work as follows: store everything as UTC, display it as the user wants to see it. | 05:39 |
| th1a | To be perfectly frank, I'm not sure. | 05:40 |
| th1a | I'm the education guy, not a calendaring expert. | 05:41 |
| biffhero | k | 05:41 |
| tvon | biffhero: that is right | 05:42 |
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| biffhero | I found a workaround. | 05:45 |
| biffhero | sort of. If I set the appt to be yesterday, recurring every wed, it shows up in the small calendars on thurs. shows up on the "view monthly calendar" on thurs. | 05:46 |
| biffhero | tvon, is there a way to change the 8am-6pm thing to be 00-2300 for the entire calendar, that way we could at least see our appts | 05:47 |
| biffhero | this is amazing. was there timezones in the 0.x release? maybe I have to put everyone in UTC | 05:48 |
| biffhero | well, everyone in utc looks like it is working now. | 05:50 |
| tvon | erm | 06:05 |
| tvon | biffhero: if you find a rendering bug, please file it in the tracker | 06:06 |
| biffhero | tvon, I am pretty sure that this is a timezone bug, they are all happy with UTC set | 06:10 |
| biffhero | I found a string bug in the web interface, though. | 06:10 |
| * tvon sighs | 06:10 | |
| * tvon spent a fair amount of time fixing timezone bugs | 06:10 | |
| tvon | biffhero: what release are you using? | 06:11 |
| biffhero | um, latest through debian, wait one | 06:11 |
| biffhero | ii libschoolbell 1.1.1-1 ii schoolbell 1.1.1-1 | 06:11 |
| tvon | damn, it's supposed to work | 06:11 |
| biffhero | Change contact details forRob Walker on @@details.html , looks like a space is missing there in that string | 06:13 |
| tvon | ah | 06:14 |
| biffhero | easy fix, do you want a bug filed? | 06:14 |
| tvon | nah, I'll take care of it now | 06:14 |
| biffhero | k | 06:14 |
| tvon | hrm, there is a space in the template | 06:14 |
| tvon | person_details.pt line 16 | 06:15 |
| biffhero | hrmm... checking mine | 06:15 |
| biffhero | here is mine. | 06:16 |
| biffhero | Change contact details for<span tal:replace="context/title" | 06:16 |
| * tvon nods | 06:17 | |
| biffhero | added the space, fixed here. | 06:17 |
| tvon | it's fixed in svn, too bad it wasn't in that release though | 06:17 |
| biffhero | I am not crazy enough to think that I am doing everything right here. Do you want access to my server to see the timezone problems I think I am seeing? | 06:18 |
| tvon | I don't have time to dig into any bugs at the moment I'm afraid, but perhaps on Monday if you are available | 06:19 |
| biffhero | found two quick display/rendering bugs related to the UTC stuff | 06:19 |
| biffhero | ok, will file them. I might be able to come back here, not sure | 06:19 |
| tvon | okay, thanks | 06:20 |
| biffhero | um, will file it, it is not showing the proper template against the appointments scheduled | 06:20 |
| biffhero | how close is the debian version with the schooltool.org one? I mean, "should I file the bug with debian (since I am using their package), or with issue.schooltool.org ? | 06:21 |
| tvon | go ahead and file it with schooltool | 06:21 |
| tvon | the debian packager is one of us anyways | 06:22 |
| biffhero | cool | 06:23 |
| th1a | biffhero: You're creating these events through the web interface, right? Not uploading your old .ics files? | 06:33 |
| biffhero | yes, all through the web interface | 06:43 |
| biffhero | what is that thing called which starts at 08:00 and ends at 18:00 every day? | 07:24 |
| biffhero | tvon: issue 295 | 07:31 |
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| ciphergoth | Is it possible to set a user's password via the REST interface? | 15:55 |
| bskahan | hi ciphergoth | 15:57 |
| bskahan | I don't believe it is | 15:57 |
| ciphergoth | damn | 15:59 |
| ciphergoth | I want a simple way to link in to an existing user database | 16:00 |
| bskahan | I could be wrong, I took a quick look | 16:00 |
| ciphergoth | the easiest thing I can imagine is a CGI script that lets them create their SchoolBell account and set the password | 16:00 |
| ciphergoth | or change it | 16:00 |
| bskahan | oh, yeah you can | 16:01 |
| bskahan | PUT /school/persons/john/password | 16:02 |
| ciphergoth | cool! | 16:02 |
| ciphergoth | what about creating users? | 16:03 |
| bskahan | yes | 16:03 |
| bskahan | the best way to figure out the REST interface is to take a look at the ftests | 16:03 |
| bskahan | in schoolbell/app/rest/ftests | 16:03 |
| bskahan | app.txt in there has examples of creating persons and setting passwords | 16:04 |
| ciphergoth | many thanks! | 16:08 |
| bskahan | np | 16:09 |
| bskahan | when you get something working, mind mailing the schooltool-dev list about it? | 16:09 |
| bskahan | its nice to know what people are using the REST interface to do | 16:09 |
| bskahan | one thing you can't do at the moment is set contact information via REST | 16:10 |
| ciphergoth | sure! | 16:10 |
| ciphergoth | contact information's not so important, though it would be nice | 16:11 |
| bskahan | thanks | 16:11 |
| ciphergoth | it's the authentication that matters | 16:11 |
| * bskahan nods | 16:11 | |
| ciphergoth | I'm going to use OpenID... | 16:11 |
| ciphergoth | What characters are allowed in usernames? | 16:11 |
| bskahan | URI legal characters | 16:11 |
| ciphergoth | So livejournal.com/%7Eciphergoth would be legal | 16:12 |
| bskahan | there was a bug with some UTF-8 charaters, but I believe its fixed | 16:12 |
| ciphergoth | but not livejournal.com/~ciphergoth | 16:12 |
| bskahan | no, '/' isn't URI legal | 16:13 |
| ciphergoth | You mean something different than what I expect by URI legal then | 16:13 |
| bskahan | heh, it has to be a valid token in a URI | 16:13 |
| bskahan | the person will be located at /app/persons/username | 16:14 |
| ciphergoth | ah, I see | 16:14 |
| bskahan | so the username can't contain a '/' | 16:14 |
| bskahan | there's a dozen or so characters that aren't legal, that's the only one I know off the top of my head | 16:15 |
| ciphergoth | I wonder how best to map URIs to usernames then. URI encoding I guess... | 16:15 |
| bskahan | I'm pretty sure they allready are | 16:15 |
| ciphergoth | so that would be livejournal.com%2F%7Eciphergoth | 16:16 |
| ciphergoth | not the prettiest, but tolerable I guess... | 16:16 |
| ciphergoth | bbiab | 16:16 |
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| erchache | hi | 16:33 |
| bskahan | hi erchache | 16:42 |
| ciphergoth | one more thing - how do I get Apache to defer certain requests to SchoolTool, assuming it's running? | 16:43 |
| ciphergoth | Apache2 that i | 16:43 |
| ciphergoth | Apache2 that is | 16:43 |
| bskahan | ciphergoth: I haven't looked into apache/schooltool interaction much, when tvon is around later ask him, his apache-foo is better than mine | 16:44 |
| ciphergoth | OK | 16:44 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4131: | 16:59 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Updated the test runner not to print import time if -q is specified. | 16:59 |
| erchache | well | 17:08 |
| bskahan | http://www.claroline.net/worldwide.htm | 17:09 |
| bskahan | nice online course project | 17:09 |
| th1a | I'm working on a brochure for NECC. | 17:41 |
| th1a | A SchoolTool brochure, that is. | 17:41 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * bskahan committed revision 4132: | 17:54 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: added a missing translation attribute | 17:54 |
| erchache | th1a: who is schooltool web admin? | 17:55 |
| erchache | i want to know certains details about server requirements for a plone site | 17:55 |
| th1a | Uh... me? | 17:56 |
| erchache | bskahan | 17:56 |
| erchache | you know schooltool web admin? | 17:56 |
| th1a | He would be more able to answer that question than me. | 17:56 |
| th1a | Well, I suppose it depends on what you man by 'admin.' I maintain the site, but not the server. | 17:56 |
| th1a | It is POV's server. | 17:56 |
| erchache | pov's server? :( | 17:57 |
| erchache | :( | 17:57 |
| erchache | :8 | 17:57 |
| th1a | Programmers of Vilnius: Aiste, mgedmin, ignas, etc. | 17:57 |
| bskahan | hi erchache | 17:58 |
| bskahan | I administer a number of plone sites | 17:58 |
| erchache | bskahan: you are my man | 17:58 |
| erchache | bskahan: i want to install a new plone server to make portal of a university's departent | 17:58 |
| erchache | has 1300 average users | 17:59 |
| bskahan | the server requirements are not huge, RAM is more important than CPU, squid is good | 17:59 |
| erchache | 2 gb? | 17:59 |
| bskahan | how many concurrent users | 17:59 |
| bskahan | 2gb is plenty | 17:59 |
| erchache | uhmmm i dont have these information :( | 17:59 |
| erchache | but less users | 17:59 |
| erchache | perhaps 1 or 2 days or overheat produced for a important publication | 18:00 |
| erchache | everybody on plone says 4 gb.....to expensive :8 | 18:00 |
| bskahan | your talking about 1300 users per day, right? | 18:01 |
| erchache | but old system are installed on a fucked (excuse me....) iis on a proliant p3 xeon with low memory | 18:01 |
| erchache | yes | 18:01 |
| erchache | 2000 on limit | 18:02 |
| erchache | 9:00 - 14:00 are the bigest used hours | 18:02 |
| bskahan | Hits per Day 42878 118300 | 18:02 |
| bskahan | from a server with 1.5G | 18:03 |
| erchache | aha | 18:03 |
| erchache | i have these values | 18:03 |
| erchache | 12000 hits per day | 18:03 |
| erchache | 9.19 per user | 18:03 |
| bskahan | thats average/max | 18:03 |
| erchache | average | 18:03 |
| erchache | 5200 pages average day | 18:04 |
| bskahan | I think you can get away with 2G happily, more is always better | 18:04 |
| erchache | sure? | 18:04 |
| bskahan | it depends on how many people are logged in at a time and how often content changes | 18:04 |
| erchache | my boss cut my head if arent enough | 18:04 |
| erchache | very very static | 18:04 |
| erchache | squid is my friend :D | 18:04 |
| bskahan | exactly | 18:04 |
| erchache | ahhhhh | 18:04 |
| erchache | i dont need squid | 18:04 |
| erchache | jhehehehehe | 18:04 |
| bskahan | ? | 18:05 |
| bskahan | why not use squid? | 18:05 |
| erchache | this server is on lan of my university which has his own squid proxuy server | 18:05 |
| bskahan | ah | 18:05 |
| erchache | i hve 4 big squid proxy servers | 18:05 |
| erchache | that can do this work for me! | 18:05 |
| erchache | im on same lan! | 18:05 |
| erchache | :D | 18:05 |
| bskahan | you should be in good shape | 18:05 |
| erchache | if a user make a petition....these servers on dns-rr can do it! | 18:06 |
| erchache | good no? | 18:06 |
| bskahan | plone performance is not great under the best cases, but it doesn't get that much worse ;) | 18:06 |
| erchache | worse that my actual system no? | 18:07 |
| bskahan | that's true too | 18:07 |
| bskahan | I'm continually surprised by the crap hardware people get away with running plone on | 18:08 |
| erchache | if actual system serve it.....this new rack server can do work too and better no? | 18:08 |
| bskahan | and they pull it off | 18:08 |
| erchache | more powerful than apache? | 18:08 |
| bskahan | what's more powerful than apache? | 18:08 |
| erchache | plone | 18:08 |
| erchache | plone/zope system | 18:08 |
| bskahan | not even close | 18:09 |
| erchache | :? | 18:09 |
| erchache | explain better please....my english are limited | 18:09 |
| bskahan | apache will serve thousands of pages off a pentium2 | 18:09 |
| erchache | i know | 18:09 |
| erchache | but compared with zope/plone...... | 18:09 |
| bskahan | zope/plone has different requirements | 18:09 |
| erchache | memory | 18:10 |
| bskahan | take a look at squid's performance requirements | 18:10 |
| erchache | waste all money my wallet supports to get more memory to my new rack server | 18:10 |
| erchache | 32 mb per gb need squid | 18:12 |
| erchache | you say same to plone? | 18:12 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * bskahan committed revision 4133: | 18:12 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: more missing i18n | 18:13 |
| bskahan | no, if squid is running on the same box you have to account for both | 18:14 |
| bskahan | you have a seperate squid server though | 18:14 |
| erchache | ok | 18:18 |
| bskahan | th1a: http://goog-ajaxslt.sourceforge.net/ | 18:19 |
| th1a | Well, isn't that interesting. | 18:20 |
| bskahan | that's pretty cool | 18:21 |
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| ciphergoth | AAAARGH! | 18:33 |
| ciphergoth | SchoolBell uses absolute URLs throughout to refer to itself | 18:33 |
| ciphergoth | so if you try and put it behind Apache it breaks horribly | 18:33 |
| ignas_ | are you sure you have configured Zope3 properly ? | 18:34 |
| ignas_ | like err iirc Zope3 handles it | 18:34 |
| ignas_ | you should ask in #zope3-dev for exact details, or google ... | 18:34 |
| ciphergoth | I'm using the Debian package | 18:35 |
| ciphergoth | but I'll ask in Zope3-dev | 18:36 |
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| th1a | Aiste: Do you have a higher resolution version of your logo than is on the website? | 19:16 |
| Aiste | hm, I think I do | 19:16 |
| Aiste | somewhere | 19:16 |
| th1a | I'm working on a print brochure for SchoolTool. | 19:16 |
| Aiste | do you need it now? | 19:16 |
| th1a | I'll probably be printing them Sunday. | 19:16 |
| Aiste | I'm slightly overwhlemed by all preparation for the conference | 19:16 |
| th1a | Some of them... | 19:16 |
| th1a | I'm doing the same thing for a different conference. | 19:17 |
| th1a | Unfortunately, the big ed-tech and Zope conferences are exactly the same time. | 19:17 |
| th1a | Anyhow, it isn't a big deal either way. | 19:17 |
| Aiste | how much better do you need it? | 19:17 |
| th1a | Uh... Well, let's assume that it will be printed an inch high. | 19:18 |
| Aiste | and you would probably prefer a CMYK one | 19:18 |
| Aiste | rather than RGB? | 19:18 |
| th1a | I don't think we're that sophisticated. | 19:18 |
| Aiste | i could send you a CMYK eps file | 19:19 |
| Aiste | :) | 19:19 |
| erchache | cmyk are for profesional printing | 19:19 |
| erchache | cian magenta yellow and black | 19:19 |
| th1a | Right now I'm just making a PDF and cranking them through a laser printer, so that's probably overkill. | 19:19 |
| erchache | with 4 colours you can make better images than grb | 19:19 |
| Aiste | yes erchache, i am aware of that | 19:19 |
| erchache | green red blue | 19:19 |
| th1a | I actually took a course on that stuff many moons ago. | 19:19 |
| th1a | My sister is doing this in InDesign. | 19:20 |
| erchache | here on spain cmyk boys are apple boys....because they are using photoshop | 19:20 |
| Aiste | th1a, OK I put up a bigger one on the web and post a link here | 19:20 |
| th1a | Cool. | 19:20 |
| erchache | and rgb boys are intel/linux boys....because we dont use photoshop | 19:20 |
| erchache | :D | 19:20 |
| Aiste | photoshop? in apple? i thought apple had better software that photoshop | 19:20 |
| erchache | noooo | 19:20 |
| erchache | photoshop was designed on first to apple | 19:21 |
| erchache | but last....do for windows too | 19:21 |
| erchache | i prefeer gimp ;P | 19:21 |
| erchache | i was figthing with my gmails acount because i have overload....i create some ones to get clear information | 19:22 |
| Aiste | gimp seriously sucks for professional printing | 19:22 |
| erchache | because doesnt have hardware support :P | 19:22 |
| ignas_ | erchache, because gimp was not designed for professional printing that's all | 19:23 |
| th1a | There are also IP issues around some basic technologies, like Pantone colors, iirc. | 19:23 |
| erchache | no i think is a harware support problem | 19:23 |
| Aiste | th1a: here you go -- http://pov.lt/povBig | 19:23 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 19:23 |
| Aiste | pantone colours is the main one | 19:24 |
| Aiste | and their CMYK support is still cranky | 19:24 |
| ignas_ | erchache, have you been subscribet to gimp mailing list ? the question was answered in a pretty detailed way in there ... | 19:24 |
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| erchache | well if you say..... | 19:24 |
| erchache | i dont want to discuss that.... | 19:25 |
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