IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2005-06-22

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jelknerhi paul02:05
pcardunehello jelkner02:05
jelknerpcardune: tom is not here now.02:05
jelkneri think he is at a conference02:06
jelknerbut he will be joining us thursday02:06
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pcardunei'll be there as well02:07
jelknerthis channel is conveniently logged.02:07
pcardunei noticed02:08
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mgedminI get javascript errors if I go to the add event form in MSIE in SchoolBell trunk13:55
mgedminline: 4913:55
mgedminchar: 913:55
mgedminerror: object doesn't support this property or method13:55
mgedminand the "transparent" logo is broken again13:56
mgedminI strongly suspect the line that says14:00
mgedmin = 'none';14:00
mgedminit was a line that said14:06
mgedmin   form = document.getElementById(...)14:07
mgedminwithout declaring 'form' as a local variable14:07
mgedminfixed in rev 4120.14:07
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4120:14:07
povbot/svn/commits: Quick fix for IExplorer error message: assignment to a global variable 'form' that cannot be assigned to (sloppy javascript code!).14:07
povbot/svn/commits: The XXX above the line, plus the fact that the 'form' variable is never used in this function, make me think that the page template needs more grooming.14:07
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srichtermgedmin: still there?15:30
mgedminsrichter, kinda15:30
srichtermgedmin: before I can do "make build" I have to build Zope 3 itself15:31
srichterthis is not documented15:31
srichtershould I change README or modify the Makefile to build Zope 3 as well?15:31
mgedmineh? when you type 'make' in schoolbell's/schooltool's top-level dir, it should build Zope 3 as well15:31
mgedminit always did for me15:31
srichterno, it did not15:31
srichterand it is clear that the Zope 3 makefile is not called15:32
bskahanmgedmin: it just changed15:32
* mgedmin looks15:32
srichterI just tried it15:32
mgedmin.PHONY: build15:32
mgedmin        $(PYTHON) build_ext -i15:32
mgedmin        cd Zope3 && $(PYTHON) build_ext -i15:32
mgedmin        $(PYTHON) remove-stale-bytecode.py15:32
srichterso the order is switched15:32
srichterZope should be done first15:32
bskahanits always worked here but sunday night I noticed it was different15:32
srichterit complained that zope.proxy._zope... extension was not available15:33
srichterso the first and second line should be in reverse order15:33
mgedminit used not to matter15:33
mgedmin+1 for switching15:33
srichterok, I'll do it15:34
mgedminin my opinion, 'make' should just work in a clean svn checkout, assuming you have all the necessary dependencies15:34
srichterI agree15:34
srichteralso, don't you think it would be better to call the doc files *.txt?15:35
srichterand I really need to get rid of the python2.3 reference in Zope's makefile15:37
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mgedminyeah, maybe15:40
srichterif you want, I can change that15:41
povbot/svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 4121:15:43
povbot/svn/commits: The order of commands did not work. We need to build Zope 3 before we build anything in schooltool.15:43
srichtermgedmin: mmh, where did you guys get my E-mail from? Because the checkin message just bounced15:43
srichterI guess I could sign up with my other E-mail address to the mailing list and not have it receive mails15:44
mgedminI'm not sure, actually15:45
mgedminI must've received an email from you from that address15:45
mgedminI think I looked it up in my lbdb15:45
mgedminwhat's your preferred email address?15:45
srichterok, what will be easier? to change the checkin E-mail address or for me to sign up?15:45
srichterfor mailing lists I prefer: srichter@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu15:46
srichter(since I have POP3 access there)15:46
mgedminboth ;)15:46
mgedminI'll approve that checkin message (it'll be held for moderator approval)15:47
srichterthen changing the checkin E-mail address would be nice :-)15:48
mgedmindid that15:48
srichterso I change the doc files to *.txt and try again :-)15:48
mgedminjust a sec15:50
mgedmin(unless you're already subscribed to
srichterI am subscribed since a while15:50
mgedminah, ok, then I don't need to find the whitelist in the nightmarish mailman's admin UI15:50
mgedminfeel free to commit any time15:51
srichterok, coming now15:51
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povbot/svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 4122:15:53
povbot/svn/commits: Renamed important documentation files, so that they have a file postfix.  This makes it easier for UI FS browsers to detect the type and let's the command line guy know the format of the file.15:53
srichterok, so far no bounce15:54
srichterso it seems to be ok15:54
srichtermgedmin: are you using zpkgtools for ST releases?15:55
srichter(because then I can add code in new packages to the trunk to avoid long-living branches)15:55
povbot/svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 4123:16:02
povbot/svn/commits: Added a couple files to the ignore list, so that they so not appear as unknown during svn stat and svn diff16:02
mgedminjinty is our release manager16:03
srichterso, the most recent checkin message came through16:03
srichteralright, I'll chat with him about that, because zpkgtools is cool :-)16:03
mgedminmy browser is still rendering the "pending requests" page16:03
mgedminit already reached the letter "v" alphabetically16:04
mgedminoh, only 815 spams16:05
mgedminI expected more ;)16:05
srichtermgedmin: another question: where would my work be best placed?16:05
srichtermgedmin: src/schooltool/wfmc for the persistent workflow defs?16:05
mgedmin"The day of reckoning has come"16:05
mgedminhow appropriate16:05
srichtermaybe you should do the same policy as and simply reject non-subscriber mails16:06
mgedminwaah, my "discard all mails" bookmarklet didn't work16:06
mgedminwrong version of mailman perhaps?16:06
srichterI thought you can mass ignore in the MM UI, no?16:07
mgedminthis here is an ancient version of mailman that doesn't have that checkbox16:10
mgedminheh, I had JavaScript disabled in my browser, for testing purposes16:12
Aisteth1a: are you there?16:17
povbot/svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 4124:16:23
povbot/svn/commits: Template Header for new Python files. In Emacs there is an easy command to insert files into another one using: CTRL+x i.16:23
srichtermgedmin: are you following the Zope style guide?16:24
srichtermgedmin: are you following the Zope 3 style guide?16:24
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maninihi: I've just downloaded/installed/run schoolbell 1.0 (15 march release). Web stuff do work but ... is there any GUI other than this. It used to be a wxWindows one. Is that ... gone ?16:28
* mgedmin ponders srichter's question16:30
mgedminprobably not16:31
mgedminwe do follow PEP 816:31
mgedminand try to make our code look like other Zope 3 code16:31
mgedminbut since I don't know/remember what's in the Zope 3 style guide, I can't say that we follow it16:32
srichterwe have PEP8 pretty much, but Camel case16:43
srichterwe also have some guidelines about ZCML, etc16:44
srichterbut since Steve helped develop those guidelines and he started with you guys ST, I am pretty sure you use the Z3 style guidelines16:45
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th1aAiste:  I'm here.16:57
Aistehi th1a16:58
th1aWhat's up?16:58
Aisteth1a: I was wondering, what are the best resources for me to find a description of features that ST currently has16:58
Aisteor will have shortly?16:58
th1aLike to show to someone official?16:59
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th1aOr for your reference?17:00
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Aistesorry th1a: I'm trying to do two things at once :)17:15
Aistefor someone official17:15
Aistein this case I need it for the school principal17:15
th1aPerhaps I should create something official looking.17:15
Aistewell, this needs to be in lithuanian17:16
Aisteand I need it by tomorrow morning :)17:16
th1aWell, then, pretty much and and
Aisteth1a: thanks, will work on those tonight17:25
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mgedmin" Cardinal Richelieu, architect of France's policy against Spain and the German emperor during the Thirty Years' War" -- wikipedia17:31
mgedminfor a moment I thought wikipedia said Richelieu was the German emperor ;)17:33
th1amgedmin:  Did you fix that for them?18:32
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mgedminth1a, no, that sentence is so convoluted, it is beyond my powers of fixing19:44
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th1amgedmin:  Perhaps if you wrote a unit test for the sentence first that would help.19:55
mgedminsadly, unit tests don't always help20:01
mgedminconsider, e.g. factorization of large numbers20:02
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povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 4125:20:21
povbot/svn/commits: Put the RELEASE.txt and GPL.txt into the tarball before I forget.20:21
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povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 4126:20:32
povbot/svn/commits: Doh!, revert the parts of 4125 that shouldnt have been committed.20:32
* srichter wonders where jinty is; he seems to make checkins ;-)20:32
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* jinty is a ghost whose ISP hates IRC and so has to resort to nefarious means to get on IRC20:58
jintysrichter: I see you have thoughts on zpkgtools and schooltool?20:59
srichterI think we should use it :-)21:12
srichterthis way we can selectively decide which packages we want to distribute21:12
srichterthis has worked well so far for Zope 3 itself21:13
srichteryou can then also make sub-releases21:13
srichterfor example schoolbeell21:13
* jinty knows -><- much about zpkgtools21:13
jintywhat is the major difference between zpkgtools and distutils?21:14
srichterzpkgtools is built atop distutils21:14
srichterit allows us to define dependencies among packages21:15
srichterand it knows about meta-data21:15
srichterso you can build source distributions by doing one simple command21:15
srichterand it will have all the configure/make/make install semantics21:16
srichterwhich is much more familiar to the regular Unix user21:16
* jinty goes looking for the source21:17
srichterbtw, in the MakeARelease wiki page you can see the steps we go through for a release21:20
srichterhold on21:24
* jinty is primarily worried about build dependencies in debian, but it looks like zpkgtools is a makes the source distribution21:27
jintyand is not involved in building/installing the unpacked tarball21:28
jintyi.e. As a user, if I have the source distribution(tarball), I do not need to install zpkgtools to install/compile it. correct?21:30
srichterit is a tool for building the source release21:31
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srichterit is a tool for building the source release21:34
jintyok, then I have no objections.21:34
srichterthe advantage is that it allows you to make several releases from the same source code21:34
srichterand specifically let's you exclude non-mature packages21:35
jintyiow you don't have to set up a new trunk for every new package21:35
jintywhat about different release cycles, schoolbell and schooltool are released at different times?21:36
srichterdoes not matter21:37
srichteryou can work with branches21:37
srichterversion info is not contained in the trunk21:37
srichterand is only added to a particular release tag21:37
jintyOk, I can't think of anything else right now. I will believe it is a good idea and would like to see how it turns out.21:39
jintybut I think a branch for this is a good idea.21:39
srichterI don't have time to work on it, I just wanted to make a sale21:40
srichter's pitch for it21:40
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jintyok, I'll have a good look at it the next time I go into "work on schooltool build process mode"21:42
jintywhich might be a while looking at my calendar21:42
srichterhere is another example21:42
srichterit would be very easy with zpkgtools to just release the iCAL implementation of schooltool21:43
srichterif the dependencies are setup correctly, you can just build the package21:43
jintyah, now that is interesting21:43
srichterwithout worrying whether all other needed packages are included.21:43
jintythe dependencies need to be maintained manually?21:44
th1aI'd point out that we need to put out the next release, which will be an important one, while jinty is traveling, so we shouldn't experiment with the release process between now and then.21:45
_jeremyth1a:  Did you get my e-mail about High Tech High and Larry Rosenstock?21:47
jintyth1a: any experiments will be done on branches first, I hope.21:47
th1a_jeremy:  I did.  I was going to send you a response today.  I'm a little worn out from the conference, and I accidentally drank decaffeinated tea this morning, which isn't helping matters.21:48
srichterjinty: yes, this is intended21:48
th1ajinty:  Yes, we won't charge ahead on this without you.21:49
srichterjinty: because we do want to be fully aware of the dependencies of pacakges21:49
th1aIt does sound like a good idea in the long run, however.21:49
th1a_jeremy:  I think I spoke to Larry on the phone during a conference call last fall, but I'm not 100% sure.21:50
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srichteranyway, time for me to work on PDs again :-)21:50
_jeremyth1a: heh, np :) I was just blown away by all the coincidences that day21:50
jintysrichter: I am probably going to do a lot of changes to the packaging at debconf, I will see how this fits in. Thanks for the summary though.21:50
th1aIt was a weird one.21:51
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srichterjinty: ok, cool; let me know, if you have questions...21:53
* jinty nods21:53
th1asrichter:  It is nice to have some fresh eyes looking at our code.21:53
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